Malaysian Airways Flight 370

[iCat]

Head of the malaysian military is now denying they saw anything on their radar.

Sooooooo many stories about this flight!

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by XWGT

re Phones. Firstly, there are no mobile phone towers in the ocean. So it dosnt matter if it survived the crash / impact / whatever.
Secondly, the ring you hear when you call someone dosnt come from the other phone. Its comes from the phone network, to let you know something is happening. Its not an indication the other phone is receiving or responding.
Thirdly........your asked to turn your phone off when you get on a plane.

It now looks like the plane was many hundreds of klms off course and heading the wrong way with its transponder turned off. that's three big ticks for hijacking in my book. I'm going to take a guess and suggest the passengers overpowered the hijackers (who wouldn't after 9/11?) but the plane has then gone down with no experienced pilot on board.

Crazy case all round.

Fair enough but when I ring somebody that there phone is off or out of range, then it doesn't ring. Instead you get a voice that tells you the phone is switched off or out of range. But I do like your later theory, would explain a lot, now they just have to look in the right spot.

[sixman]

The Malaysians are looking very incompetant and out of their depth.

Why on earth would they say the plane was monitored by radar and seen in the malacca strait, and then turn around and say that information was incorrect.

[FPVS3]

Originally Posted by XBROO

The comment was a bit tongue in cheek, I'm sure all will be revealed sooner or later.

Yeah, I know.....but a cloaking device?? Now that's a definite maybe.

[sixman]

Oh, and those 2 iranian blokes dont look anything like mario balotelli. WTF!

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by XWGT

re Phones. Firstly, there are no mobile phone towers in the ocean. So it dosnt matter if it survived the crash / impact / whatever.
Secondly, the ring you hear when you call someone dosnt come from the other phone. Its comes from the phone network, to let you know something is happening. Its not an indication the other phone is receiving or responding.
Thirdly........your asked to turn your phone off when you get on a plane.

Crazy case all round.

Yes and no.

If you look at the geography of the area they were not that far from land (80-100km???). It could be possible that a signal could still be recieved from some phones?? If they were over land the gap between towers and phone would be much less.

Not that far back there was an incident on a plane (hijacking??) I think in Japan or Germany and lots of the passengers were secretly sending messages about what was going on to family, which then was relayed to police.

Yes, you SHOULD turn your phone off, but not everyone does. Even though they use the word OFF, most (including myself) just flick to flight mode.

I'm curious about the ringing comment. Sometimes I have called a phone and it rung out while the phone I was calling didn't actually receive the call, then there are times that a phone is off, and it goes straight to message bank, or the generic 'off or out of range' reply.

'Grazy case all round'... yep, no arguments there!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by sixman

The Malaysians are looking very incompetant and out of their depth.

Why on earth would they say the plane was monitored by radar and seen in the malacca strait, and then turn around and say that information was incorrect.

I think the MDF General was misquoted by a Malaysian tabloid newspaper.

Another remotely possible theory I saw online is that the aircraft had an instrument and electrical failure in the cockpit and being in the middle of the night, over water, lost their bearings and they went way off course into a region they simply weren't supposed to go (western Pacific) and the aircraft ran out of fuel and crashed into the sea.

Doesn't explain the loss of transponder contact or lack of communication though.

[AdamL]

I don't think officials are saying much at all. It's the media with their "sources" that are spreading all the information.

[Peter B - CV8]

Something catastrophic happened (mid air explosion etc). Otherwise, on a plane of this size, passengers & crew would have been able to communicate a problem electronically. At the height they were at - even a wing falling off would have given them a couple of minutes of time.....so it's an explosion by my reckoning.

[Bucket]

This is an interesting blog article. http://mh370lost.tumblr.com/?og=1

Another theory I read about was that it could have been an attempted hijacking, this one was broached by a Canadian A330 Captain.

[Yellow_Festiva]

A plane cruises at.. what... 860km/h?? So, if it was flying for 1hr untracked the search area is huge, some 581 thousand square km (or half of South Australia)!

And that could be in any random direction from last known position...

If it was off the radar for even 30 minutes, you only need to search over an area the size of... well, Victoria.

10 minutes... you are searching the whole of Tasmania.

Real 'needle in a haystack' stuff when you consider the areas mentioned above.

How big would the floating debris be? Depends on how the plane came apart, and at what altitude I guess?

They could be searching for a concentrated patch of floaters no bigger than a football field, or they could be looking for specs of this and that spread out over 10 sq km...

Then you have tides, winds, weather and currents to factor in...

Oh man....

[Road_Warrior]

I just did a “replay” of its flight path on FlightRadar24. It was quite eerie, the plane is flying along, at 35000 doing 472 knots, and then all of a sudden all the values are just zero. Like flicking a switch.

Also, with the sheer volume of ships and aircraft that have been poured into the region purely to search for this plane (as well as merchant shipping constantly transiting in and out of the region), SOME form of wreckage would have been found, surely.

Oh, and Chinese and US satellites scanning the region.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

Something catastrophic happened (mid air explosion etc). Otherwise, on a plane of this size, passengers & crew would have been able to communicate a problem electronically. At the height they were at - even a wing falling off would have given them a couple of minutes of time.....so it's an explosion by my reckoning.

I wont disagree with that, but if that were to be the case, 'they must be looking in the wrong area' because debris from a plane exploding 35,000 would scatter a massive area! Even if most of it sinks, there would probably be a huge trail of luggage, cushions, life jackets, aviation fuel maybe? Remember a few years back,cbf looking it up, some NASA challenger mission disintergrated upon re-entry. Its alot higher that 35,000 feet, but that debris trail was over 7-8 states?

It could have taken a nose dive, the debris field would be tiny in comparison. Or it crashed into a mountain in a remote part way off the flight path and authorities are too busy ferreting the open seas.



ps. And dont forget about 5 days of strong currents

[Bucket]

Another Theory, the A330 Pilot from Canada: http://karlenepetitt.blogspot.com.au...ulate.html?m=1

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Another Theory, the A330 Pilot from Canada: http://karlenepetitt.blogspot.com.au...ulate.html?m=1

I reckon the first one has nailed it. A documented structural flaw in the aircraft that the FAA knew about and ordered to be fixed.

Summary: It’s plausible that a fuselage section near the SATCOM antenna adapter failed, disabling satellite based - GPS, ACARS, and ADS-B/C - communications, and leading to a slow decompression that left all occupants unconscious. If such decompression left the aircraft intact, then the autopilot would have flown the planned route or otherwise maintained its heading/altitude until fuel exhaustion.

A slow decompression (e.g. from a golfball-sized hole) would have gradually impaired and confused the pilots before cabin altitude (pressure) warnings sounded.

Chain of events:

Likely fuselage failure near SATCOM antenna adapter, disabling some or all of GPS, ACARS, ADS-B, and ADS-C antennas and systems.
Thus, only primary radars would detect the plane. Primary radar range is usually less than 100nm, and is generally ineffective at high altitudes.

If the decompression was slow enough, it’s possible the pilots did not realize to put on oxygen masks until it was too late. (See Helios 522)

Also explains why another Pilot thirty minutes ahead heard “mumbling” from MH370 pilots. (VHF comms would be unaffected by SATCOM equipment failure.)

With incapacitated pilots, the 777 could continue to fly on Autopilot - programmed to maintain cruise altitude and follow the programmed route. Using the Inertial Reference System (gyroscope based), the plane could navigate without needing GPS.

Other thoughts:

The plane was equipped with cellular communication hardware, supplied by AeroMobile, to provide GSM services via satellite. However this is an aftermarket product; it’s not connected through SATCOM (as far as I know).

This explains why 19 families signed a statement alleging they were able to call the MH370 passengers and get their phones to ring, but with no response.

When Malaysian Airlines tried to call the phone numbers a day later, the phones did not ring. By this time, fuel would have been exhausted.

Note: 777 Passenger Oxygen masks do not deploy until cabin altitude reaches 13,500. Passengers were likely already unconscious by then, if it was a slow decompression. Also remember that this flight was a red-eye, most passengers would be trying to sleep, masking alarming effects of oxygen deprivation. No confirmed debris has been found anywhere near the search area, consistent with the plane having flown for hours after it lost radar contact.

Conclusion:
This was likely not an “explosive decompression” or “inflight disintegration.” This was likely a slow decompression that gradually deprived all crew/passengers of oxygen, leaving the autopilot to continue along the route autonomously.

The aircraft may be at the floor of the East China Sea, Sea of Japan, or the Pacific Ocean thousands of miles northeast from the current search zone. [UPDATE: Basically, it could be “anywhere”, and we need to use any available radar records to help figure it out. This is where the Vietnamese/Malaysia civilian and military radars will help.]

And the thing is there are so many more examples of aircraft carrying on, along their merry way on autopilot with a flight full of unconscious passengers and crew due to oxygen depletion, and then running out of fuel and falling to the earth.

[EgoFG]

I am thinking that the plane made it to China .... in a secret location, all of the occupants except 1 will turn up over the next few years is strange places throughout the world with no specific recollection ... or is that a book I am reading "Lost 2"

[Silver Ghia]

You might have something there Road Warrior:

Malaysia Airlines mystery: US issued warnings over Boeing 777 'weak spot'
Potential weakness in fuselage of Boeing 777s was identified by the Federal Aviation Administration last year
American transport officials warned of a potential weak spot in Boeing 777s which could lead to the "loss of structural integrity of the aircraft" four months before the disappearance of Malaysia airlines Flight MH370.
The Federal Aviation Administration in Washington drew up an Airworthiness Directive in November. It was triggered by reports of cracking in the fuselage skin underneath a Boeing aircraft's satellite antennae.
In its directive the FAA, which is responsible for supervising the safety of American-made aircraft such as Boeing, told airlines to look out for corrosion under the fuselage skin.
This, the FAA said, could lead to a situation where the fuselage was compromised leading to possible rapid decompression as well as the plane breaking up.
"We received a report of cracking and corrosion in the fuselage skin underneath the SATCOM antenna adapter," the FAA warned. "During a maintenance planning data inspection, one operator reported a 16-inch crack under the 3-bay SATCOM antenna adapter plate in the crown skin of the fuselage on an aeroplane that was 14 years old with approximately 14,000 total flight cycles.
"Subsequent to this crack finding, the same operator inspected 42 other aeroplanes that are between 6 and 16 years old and found some local corrosion, but no other cracking. Cracking and corrosion in the fuselage skin, if not corrected, could lead to rapid decompression and loss of structural integrity of the aeroplane."
The FAA directive in November called for additional checks to be incorporated into the routine maintenance schedule of the worldwide 777 Boeing fleet.
According to a Malaysia Airlines spokesman, the missing aircraft was serviced on February 23, with further maintenance scheduled for June 19.
The FAA stated that carrying out necessary inspection work would cost airlines $3.060 (£1,841).
With terrorism now appearing less likely as a cause of the Malaysian airlines disaster, which claimed 239 lives, focus has switched to problems with the aircraft or pilot error.

A Boeing spokesman said it was working with the NTSB as a technical adviser.
"The team is now in position in the region to offer whatever assistance is required."
The company declined to comment further.

[blueoval]

This is spooky. I took a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 from Adelaide to KL back in September. This crap could have happened to me.

[neptune blue]

[QUOTE=sixman;5043838]The Malaysians are looking very incompetant and out of their depth.

And this surprises you?

[neptune blue]

They are looking in the wrong place
They need to be searching the Bermuda Triangle

[Silver Ghia]

From the quote in my post above:

The FAA directive in November called for additional checks to be incorporated into the routine maintenance schedule of the worldwide 777 Boeing fleet.
According to a Malaysia Airlines spokesman, the missing aircraft was serviced on February 23, with further maintenance scheduled for June 19.

This statement does not mean at all, that the inspection in the subject area was performed at the last service check. As a former airline structures engineering manager, I'd say it most likely wasn't.

[CoupeKing]

Brief summary of what we think we know so far. Interesting what they say about the transponder.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/201...s-flight-mh370

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Brief summary of what we think we know so far. Interesting what they say about the transponder.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/201...s-flight-mh370

Bullcrap then if the posts Silver Ghia has put up are true.

[Geez Louise]

I was surprised myself that no one had started a thread on this until now. How can a plane just vanish. So much of it is not adding up.

I know there are a few people on here who love conspiracies, however there is a site I have been logging onto and they do have some good theories about it, there is also a lot of rubbish about it too. Make of it what you will.

For anyone interested here is the link:

http://beforeitsnews.com/home/featur.../featured.html

My heart just breaks for the families of the passengers...whatever has happened, lets hope it is a good outcome and not the one that everyone already fears.

Cheers
Col

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

From the quote in my post above:
This statement does not mean at all, that the inspection in the subject area was performed at the last service check. As a former airline structures engineering manager, I'd say it most likely wasn't.

You would think that a seemingly evident problem like this would have grounded all planes till they were inspected.

[Road_Warrior]

Is the transponder radio or GPS-based?

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I reckon the first one has nailed it. A documented structural flaw in the aircraft that the FAA knew about and ordered to be fixed.



And the thing is there are so many more examples of aircraft carrying on, along their merry way on autopilot with a flight full of unconscious passengers and crew due to oxygen depletion, and then running out of fuel and falling to the earth.

If it was a gradual thing & the plane kept flying on for hours - then it would have appeared on someone's radar at some point.... The fact is that it just simply disappeared. The structural flaw/sudden catastrophic event scenario seems the most likely (at least to me).

[Geez Louise]

Apparently Vietnam has now stopped searching for it due to frustration with Malaysia.

http://www.news.com.au/world/did-fli...-1226851986645

Cheers
Col

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

If it was a gradual thing & the plane kept flying on for hours - then it would have appeared on someone's radar at some point.... The fact is that it just simply disappeared. The structural flaw/sudden catastrophic event scenario seems the most likely (at least to me).

But this is the thing - the only way it will turn up on civil aviation radars are if the transponder is active.

However military radars are 'active' and will pick it up regardless of whether it has a transponder or not, and the families gathered in KL are cracking the ***** because authorities arent detailing what (if any) information gathered from military radars that could potentially solve this awful riddle.

Now Vietnam has cracked the ***** and pulled out of the search citing misinformation and incompetence coming from Malaysia about where to search etc.

[cheap]

The unfolding story has more twists and turns and even my general non-conspiracy views are being challenged.

#1. Plane tracked two hours out of Kuala Lumpur, near Vietnamese air space
now the Malaysian air force may have tracked the jet hundreds of kilometres away from the initial search zone

#2. Five passengers did not show up for the flight and had their bags unloaded now we are told all passengers turned up and no bad unloaded

#3. Two men boarding the flight with false passports, they were black in appearance now we're told both men are Iranian (Caucasian appearance)

We're all waiting for the next piece of conflicting information to dribble from the Malaysians.