Has the falcodore grown itself out of the market?

[XR_Strider_GuY]

I believe its a combination of things:

1. Price. As everyone has eluded, a base Falcon is as near as make no difference on $40k. Yes, you can get them cheaper on discounts but then other manufactures will discount so that negates it. Next, the Camry can sell keenly as its a global car (look at a Camry around the global and its an identical car). The Falcon and Commodore have development costs to recoup. Only enthusiasts like us see the value of a Falcon/Commodore being rear drive, bigger engine bigger space.

2. Trend. Australia is not like the US where they harp on retro tradition. We embrace something new. Guess who bought Hyundai's, Festiva's and Kia's?? Yeap us Australians. The Mazda 3 sells like hot cakes because it has decent resale (again trend) people will still buying 2/3 years old. One of those things that if one buys everyone wants one. Apple Iphone syndrome??

3. Banning P platers to drive V8's and Turbo's. Effectively this has put an extra nail in the coffin for younger guys to aspire to Falcons and Commodores. Generally in the past you were interested in Falcadores for their big engines. If this is a no no until the age of 21, people will be steered away. How many of us have become who we are because of our first car? If one starts with a Mazda as a their first car, guess what car they will aspire to next? Mazda 6 or RX8?

4. Lack of Wrenching Skills. We are computer throw away generation. How many young guys under 20 these days have actually done an oil change or take a tyre off? Your modern Japanese cars are like a an Iphone. Works as intended, don't have to lift a single spanner, fill petrol, go and let the mechanic sort the rest. Once you earn enough you sell it and buy something better and nicer. With your older Falcadores you have to wrench or at least be good mates with your local mechanic. There is just no time in this world anymore for such a thing.

5. Traffic. How can anyone enjoy a big engined car when its always busy and jam packed. In a traffic jam a big car uses fuel like no tomorrow. 16L/100km compared to say 7.5L/100 tops.

[BLUEYBA]

I think we need to realise that the Falcon is not the bread and butter car Ford Aus hung its hat on to make profits like it once did. This is now the job of the Fiesta, Focus and the Falcon has a small part in the overall

[Werd.]

I think deep down a lot of people *want* Falcons, but it is just not a practical car for a few reasons.

Showed Mum a G6E in the shopping centre parking lot, response was "Wow that's nice, what's that? Look at the interior!", straight away she wanted to know the price.

She is not buying a Falcon in the future though, probably a smaller hatch due to lack of confidence driving. (Has an AU currently.)

I always wanted a Falcon, so I bought my AU, but now I find myself driving my smaller 4cyl manual, the AU is much nicer to drive, but less fun.
I'm still a hoon, and it's nice being able to hit the limiter, slam gears etc and be doing less than 60KM/H.

The Falcon doesn't sell to P platers.
It doesn't sell to women.

It's a great car but I don't see a market for it anymore. Who wants a 4L I6 that drinks 13L/100KM when you can get something smaller, cheaper, with better resale value, and ever increasing interior space?

I struggle to think of what a Falcon does better than any of these cars, hatches can fit your ikea stuff with the rear seats folded down (hell better than a falcon even).

If you need to load the boot with bags, 5 passengers inside and do freeway driving then the Falcon is the car for the job.

[Drizz06]

You also have to think to yourself what exactly is the average Australian these days?

I work with a few recent "New Australians" and they pretty much buy the cars they bought before they came here as that is what they are accustomed to.

[DJM83]

Interesting thread.
Me personally have no need for a Falcon, if i were to buy one there is only one reason id buy and that is for the I6T, its in my price range, easily modded and its a turbo the best thing to happen in the last 10 years at FoA (IMO).
Im not a fan of the rest of the car, nor do i need a car of that size. With my current situation/car, im paying the same rego as a 6T but i dont need a big car such as a falcon, but if the need arises ie family (long shot) id seriously consider a manual FG XR6T no worries.

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by XR_Strider_GuY

I believe its a combination of things:

1. Price. As everyone has eluded, a base Falcon is as near as make no difference on $40k. Yes, you can get them cheaper on discounts but then other manufactures will discount so that negates it. Next, the Camry can sell keenly as its a global car (look at a Camry around the global and its an identical car). The Falcon and Commodore have development costs to recoup. Only enthusiasts like us see the value of a Falcon/Commodore being rear drive, bigger engine bigger space.

2. Trend. Australia is not like the US where they harp on retro tradition. We embrace something new. Guess who bought Hyundai's, Festiva's and Kia's?? Yeap us Australians. The Mazda 3 sells like hot cakes because it has decent resale (again trend) people will still buying 2/3 years old. One of those things that if one buys everyone wants one. Apple Iphone syndrome??

3. Banning P platers to drive V8's and Turbo's. Effectively this has put an extra nail in the coffin for younger guys to aspire to Falcons and Commodores. Generally in the past you were interested in Falcadores for their big engines. If this is a no no until the age of 21, people will be steered away. How many of us have become who we are because of our first car? If one starts with a Mazda as a their first car, guess what car they will aspire to next? Mazda 6 or RX8?

4. Lack of Wrenching Skills. We are computer throw away generation. How many young guys under 20 these days have actually done an oil change or take a tyre off? Your modern Japanese cars are like a an Iphone. Works as intended, don't have to lift a single spanner, fill petrol, go and let the mechanic sort the rest. Once you earn enough you sell it and buy something better and nicer. With your older Falcadores you have to wrench or at least be good mates with your local mechanic. There is just no time in this world anymore for such a thing.

This pretty much sums it up IMO. I removed the 5th point because I dont entirely agree with that one. I agree with that being the mass perception though.

In a throw away society, naturally the end consumer wants to pay as little as possible for something theyre going to replace in a short time. Combined with trying to combine a "need" & a "want" vehicle as much as possible. This is not offered in a large sedan that costs $40k brand new.
However, I believe Fords idea of selling to profit, as opposed to volume selling is a fantastic idea. It keeps the Falcon-style platform viable.
I think the days of large sedans are truly over forever as a B&B seller, but FoA have structured it well for niche marketing.

[RAPID_BA]

Why doesnt the govt subsidise through tax concessions for business to buy Australian made cars? They will get the money back in spades from the employment it generates (people paying taxes), company tax and suppliers chains knock on effect with employment and company tax etc etc...

Then "average" people can continue to buy a second hand falcodore as they have always done.

As the govt refuses to give this tax concessions, noone is buying new falcodore, which will lead to their demise, which will lead to average people not being able to buy second hand falcodores anymore.

[Joe5619]

I can't believe people think an XT is 40K!!! I like seriously, people can't be that dumb on this website of all places? XT's are NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT 40K!!!

[Franco Cozzo]

My story of buying cars:

In 2007 when I got my Ls I was really interested in a V8 car, but they changed the rules regarding P plate laws the same year, and thats when I became interested in Jap imports instead. I've never been able to own V8s because I can't drive them legally, and so that pretty much killed it for me, I don't think I'd even bother anymore because the fad has well and truely worn off for me, just doesn't interest me. That turbo spooling up on the other hand

Having a friend who has ground up rebuilt a 1982 Mazda RX7 with a built 12A with all the goodies, also sways you towards a different direction.

Before I bought my WS Fiesta new from the dealership in 2009 as my first car, I set myself a budget of $15,000 and criteria of manual:

I was out with Mum for the day and we stopped to get KFC in Fawkner, and I noticed there was a used car yard right by so after lunch I told mum and we went across to look at some cars.

It was a used jap import lot in Fawkner, I come across a nice 4 door NA R34 Skyline with low ks (probably wound back haha), which was in great condition, popped the bonnet, no oil leaks I could see, the only downside was the car has been smoked in and had some cigarette burns in the interior, I don't really mind the smell of smoke so it didn't bother me much.

I asked if the owner of the yard could take me around for a drive so we could test it, he said he didn't want to waste his time moving cars around if I wasn't going to buy and wanted a $500 deposit. I said I'm interested and I'll come back next week with the deposit and he can take me for a ride.

Mum approved of the car, told Dad about it and he said alright no worries.

Next week comes, I go back to Fawkner with the parents and ask him about the Skyline, and he sold it the next day after I left and didn't ring me to tell me before I came back :'(

I was pretty upset, I liked that car, looking back he probably did me a massive favor.

I was looking all over carsales for something $15,000 and manual, and I come across a Mazda 6 luxury which was optioned up, freakin' sweet. It was out around Preston at another used car yard, I got my parents to take me out there to check it out, I had called them and they said they had it here ready for me to look at, all excited we leave home.

My cousin in the meantime buys an orange 2003 BA XR6 Falcon for his first car, though it was auto, set him back $11,000 and he sent me some pictures, I searched for manual ones but at the time couldn't find any under $20,000.

We got caught up in traffic right next to Max Kirwin Mazda in Preston, Dad asked if I wanted to go in and check out the cars, so we wonder about the yard, I didn't find anything too interesting, except I picked up a brochure for a new Mazda 2, I tried talking to people but they didn't seem too interested in dealing with me, so we left to go to the used car yard.

I arrive at the used car yard, and talk to the salesman on the phone, looking around I ask where the Mazda 6 was, he told me he sold it 15 minutes before we arrived....

I wasn't too happy, but he showed me this 1997 E36 BMW 328i coupe, I thought it was pretty cool, manual, 2.8L Inline 6 and RWD, sweet, until I opened the door and it dropped a bit in my hand, so it must have been in an accident, I left.

Another time me and the old man went out to the dealerships at Essendon Fields, there was Ford, Hyundai, Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge, Honda, Mazda and Toyota at the time right next to each other, its like a massive car yard strip in Essendon Airport (which I'd later work there for 6 months in 2010).

We went straight into Mazda because my old man was a Mazda fanboy and a salesman approached us, and asked us if we were interested in any cars, and he pointed out a new Mazda 2 base model in manual to me, I said how much? We went over to his bench and the old man started to negotiate, we ended up getting it down to $16,300 drive away, I could stretch the budget, but I said maybe I should look at other cars before I sign, and so took the salesman's card and he took my details, sweet.

I went over to Ford to have a look around, and come across some BA XR6s and an XR4 Fiesta, what turned me off the Falcon was how crappy the interior was, all low quality plastics, odd seating position, I'm a fat ***** so even with the wheel all the way up, and the seat in its lowest position, it was awkward getting in and out of the car, as I'd have to wriggle around the steering wheel as it would hit on my thigh getting in/out.

The XR4 also had a low quality interior, everything seemed and felt cheaply put together and made.

(I've also driven our company car 2003 BA Fairmont Ghia with the 3V V8 and its a hunk of crap)

I left and I couldn't be bothered looking at anything else.

When I went home my parents talked me into getting a new small car, so we went out to Sunbury Ford a few days later and they had a new WS Fiesta CL on the lot, only one they had was Morello with no options, they let me test drive it without a license (LOL) and I ended up signing the dotted line for $18,000 drive away.

The interior quality in those cars is pretty damn good, the dash is soft touch vinyl, the steering wheel moves in and out and up/down, there is a massive amount of adjustment on the seat in height, so I could actually make it really comfortable unlike the Falcon. The stereo has mids and separate tweeters for the fronts, MP3 compatability, steering wheel controls, aux input, was pretty amazed when I got into it.

I ended up keeping it for about a year and a half, then I went about looking for another car because I got bored with it.

I actually looked at an R6 Falcon ute in manual they had sitting new in Sunbury Ford (they had recently changed hands, none of the old salesman were there). I was pretty keen for it, I stood around for 45 minutes before someone finally walked out of the show room to talk to me, and asked what I wanted, I said that ute there, and I go how much, he said $34,000, I told him do better, and he says I'm trying to do my job, if you aren't interested stop wasting my time, I said I'm interested so go inside and talk to your dealer principle and come back out.

He comes back out and says $32,000, I said $27,500 and I'll take it today. He wouldn't budge. Given for around that amount of money I could have had an XR6 it defies logic.

I'd also rang up one of our forum sponsors and they said they could get me a 6sp auto Falcon ute, for $26,000 drive away, but not a 6sp manual one as they didn't see any in stock in the country and it would have to be built on the line and it would end up costing more than their runouts.

I finished up at work on a Friday at 1pm like usual, met my old man and we went back to the dealerships in Essendon Fields, I wanted to spend maximum $27,500 drive away, had to be manual.

I went into Hyundai and no one wanted to deal with me, so I walked out, we went to Mazda to check out the Mazda 3 diesel, but they didn't have any in stock and it was a touch expensive. Then we went off for a drive to Holden in Keilor road Niddre, I was walking around the yard, and I went to go open up a Cruze CDX diesel sitting in the lot, then someone locked the doors on me and went inside, what a bunch of ******.

So we went back to Essendon Ford and I wasn't aware of the TDCI Focus, one of my mates who used to work with me at Honda noticed me and come right up to us, and I said I want one of those, except white, diesel and manual, he said $25,990 and I said where do I sign?

I totalled it like 3 weeks later and ended up getting another through insurance later on.

In hindsight I sorta wish I went for the Mazda 3 diesel as it has a slightly larger engine (2.2L) and has factory HIDs, rather than me **** farting around, spending about $2000 all up to import the genuine Ford Focus HID assemblies, genuine ballasts and D1S HID globes from Ford Europe and figuring out wiring to get them to work with my car.

To be honest, I don't know if I'd buy another new car again, as I've bought 2 new cars, the only benefit is the new car smell for like a week, and that you know it won't give you any problems, but I'm not really the kind of person to keep a car longer than a few years as I get bored of them and want to try something else, and so I'm going to cop a massive depreciation hit.

What sells me on a car is the interior, the way the doors feel when you close them (satisfying heavy thud) and what gadgets it has like touch screens, good stereo etc. Or I'll see something and I get the feeling I love it, then thats what I'll buy.

I'm up for another car in 2014 when I'm off my Ps, i'll set a budget, criteria will be that its manual and away we go, stroll through Essendon Fields dealerships and Keilor road Niddre, see what takes my fancy, maybe I'll impulse buy new at a dealership, maybe I'll come home in a used 2001 F250 with the 7.3L diesel V8? I worked on a 7.3 F350 a few weeks back and I thought it was pretty damn nice with the 4 rear wheels and the way it drove.

I think Ford made the wrong descision in knocking back the Focus from being made here in Australia, small cars and SUVs seem to be the go these days with new buyers.

To me when I looked at FG Falcons, odd seating position, low quality interior which I actually snapped the bonnet latch off in my hand in a new car, didn't take much to break it off the dash, I pulled on it, not very hard rather than opening it if you know what I mean and all the imports seem to have better stereos and better equipped etc. Falcon is too much money for what it offers in the way of gadgets etc.

That being said I do have a 97 EL Fairmont Ghia I'm slowly working on and that will be the family cruiser to go on trips to see other family members as its a damn comfortable ride.

[Joe5619]

What is an "old sitting positions".. I had no idea there was an old & new position!!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

What is an "old sitting positions".. I had no idea there was an old & new position!!

I mean Odd, its too damn high for me.

VE Commodore doesn't have this problem, but I won't buy one because its a VE Commodore.

[2011G6E]

So I'm not alone in noticing this...

The best car we had, for comfort and general ease of use was...sorry...a 1984 VK Calais. It had plenty of room for our family, I never remember having a boot space problem, and it was easy to manuever and park...everyone must have noticed that as cars have grown, parking spaces haven't, which sometimes make me wish Ford had taken a note from Holden and fitted front parking sensors in the Falcon...

Cars have grown heavier and heavier, larger and larger, and more and more powerful, but this could be to offset the extra pork they have to lug around. I'm sure everyone has considered what a stock standard modern engine would be like in an old car...I often wonder what the engine and box out of our G6E would be like stuffed into our long gone XC-Update Fairmont GXL (which, even though made of thick steel and with huge bumpers and lounge-chair interior weighed only about 1400kg), and the success of engine swaps like Alloytec V6's into EH Holdens where you end up with a modern, efficient engine putting out what was, not long ago, worked V8 power, is very popular.

Yes, cars have gotten bigger and a lot heavier, but I'm not sure we've gained much apart from a few toys...after all, we don't want to go down the path that America did with bigger and bigger cars that they "needed" to have, and then the public turned and went towards middle sized and smaller cars...we should learn from their mistakes...

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

My story of buying cars:

In 2007 when I got my Ls I was really interested in a V8 car, but they changed the rules regarding P plate laws the same year, and thats when I became interested in Jap imports instead. I've never been able to own V8s because I can't drive them legally, and so that pretty much killed it for me, I don't think I'd even bother anymore because the fad has well and truely worn off for me, just doesn't interest me. That turbo spooling up on the other hand

Having a friend who has ground up rebuilt a 1982 Mazda RX7 with a built 12A with all the goodies, also sways you towards a different direction.

Before I bought my WS Fiesta new from the dealership in 2009 as my first car, I set myself a budget of $15,000 and criteria of manual:

I was out with Mum for the day and we stopped to get KFC in Fawkner, and I noticed there was a used car yard right by so after lunch I told mum and we went across to look at some cars.

It was a used jap import lot in Fawkner, I come across a nice 4 door NA R34 Skyline with low ks (probably wound back haha), which was in great condition, popped the bonnet, no oil leaks I could see, the only downside was the car has been smoked in and had some cigarette burns in the interior, I don't really mind the smell of smoke so it didn't bother me much.

I asked if the owner of the yard could take me around for a drive so we could test it, he said he didn't want to waste his time moving cars around if I wasn't going to buy and wanted a $500 deposit. I said I'm interested and I'll come back next week with the deposit and he can take me for a ride.

Mum approved of the car, told Dad about it and he said alright no worries.

Next week comes, I go back to Fawkner with the parents and ask him about the Skyline, and he sold it the next day after I left and didn't ring me to tell me before I came back :'(

I was pretty upset, I liked that car, looking back he probably did me a massive favor.

I was looking all over carsales for something $15,000 and manual, and I come across a Mazda 6 luxury which was optioned up, freakin' sweet. It was out around Preston at another used car yard, I got my parents to take me out there to check it out, I had called them and they said they had it here ready for me to look at, all excited we leave home.

My cousin in the meantime buys an orange 2003 BA XR6 Falcon for his first car, though it was auto, set him back $11,000 and he sent me some pictures, I searched for manual ones but at the time couldn't find any under $20,000.

We got caught up in traffic right next to Max Kirwin Mazda in Preston, Dad asked if I wanted to go in and check out the cars, so we wonder about the yard, I didn't find anything too interesting, except I picked up a brochure for a new Mazda 2, I tried talking to people but they didn't seem too interested in dealing with me, so we left to go to the used car yard.

I arrive at the used car yard, and talk to the salesman on the phone, looking around I ask where the Mazda 6 was, he told me he sold it 15 minutes before we arrived....

I wasn't too happy, but he showed me this 1997 E36 BMW 328i coupe, I thought it was pretty cool, manual, 2.8L Inline 6 and RWD, sweet, until I opened the door and it dropped a bit in my hand, so it must have been in an accident, I left.

Another time me and the old man went out to the dealerships at Essendon Fields, there was Ford, Hyundai, Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge, Honda, Mazda and Toyota at the time right next to each other, its like a massive car yard strip in Essendon Airport (which I'd later work there for 6 months in 2010).

We went straight into Mazda because my old man was a Mazda fanboy and a salesman approached us, and asked us if we were interested in any cars, and he pointed out a new Mazda 2 base model in manual to me, I said how much? We went over to his bench and the old man started to negotiate, we ended up getting it down to $16,300 drive away, I could stretch the budget, but I said maybe I should look at other cars before I sign, and so took the salesman's card and he took my details, sweet.

I went over to Ford to have a look around, and come across some BA XR6s and an XR4 Fiesta, what turned me off the Falcon was how crappy the interior was, all low quality plastics, odd seating position, I'm a fat ***** so even with the wheel all the way up, and the seat in its lowest position, it was awkward getting in and out of the car, as I'd have to wriggle around the steering wheel as it would hit on my thigh getting in/out.

The XR4 also had a low quality interior, everything seemed and felt cheaply put together and made.

(I've also driven our company car 2003 BA Fairmont Ghia with the 3V V8 and its a hunk of crap)

I left and I couldn't be bothered looking at anything else.

When I went home my parents talked me into getting a new small car, so we went out to Sunbury Ford a few days later and they had a new WS Fiesta CL on the lot, only one they had was Morello with no options, they let me test drive it without a license (LOL) and I ended up signing the dotted line for $18,000 drive away.

The interior quality in those cars is pretty damn good, the dash is soft touch vinyl, the steering wheel moves in and out and up/down, there is a massive amount of adjustment on the seat in height, so I could actually make it really comfortable unlike the Falcon. The stereo has mids and separate tweeters for the fronts, MP3 compatability, steering wheel controls, aux input, was pretty amazed when I got into it.

I ended up keeping it for about a year and a half, then I went about looking for another car because I got bored with it.

I actually looked at an R6 Falcon ute in manual they had sitting new in Sunbury Ford (they had recently changed hands, none of the old salesman were there). I was pretty keen for it, I stood around for 45 minutes before someone finally walked out of the show room to talk to me, and asked what I wanted, I said that ute there, and I go how much, he said $34,000, I told him do better, and he says I'm trying to do my job, if you aren't interested stop wasting my time, I said I'm interested so go inside and talk to your dealer principle and come back out.

He comes back out and says $32,000, I said $27,500 and I'll take it today. He wouldn't budge. Given for around that amount of money I could have had an XR6 it defies logic.

I'd also rang up one of our forum sponsors and they said they could get me a 6sp auto Falcon ute, for $26,000 drive away, but not a 6sp manual one as they didn't see any in stock in the country and it would have to be built on the line and it would end up costing more than their runouts.

I finished up at work on a Friday at 1pm like usual, met my old man and we went back to the dealerships in Essendon Fields, I wanted to spend maximum $27,500 drive away, had to be manual.

I went into Hyundai and no one wanted to deal with me, so I walked out, we went to Mazda to check out the Mazda 3 diesel, but they didn't have any in stock and it was a touch expensive. Then we went off for a drive to Holden in Keilor road Niddre, I was walking around the yard, and I went to go open up a Cruze CDX diesel sitting in the lot, then someone locked the doors on me and went inside, what a bunch of ******.

So we went back to Essendon Ford and I wasn't aware of the TDCI Focus, one of my mates who used to work with me at Honda noticed me and come right up to us, and I said I want one of those, except white, diesel and manual, he said $25,990 and I said where do I sign?

I totalled it like 3 weeks later and ended up getting another through insurance later on.

In hindsight I sorta wish I went for the Mazda 3 diesel as it has a slightly larger engine (2.2L) and has factory HIDs, rather than me **** farting around, spending about $2000 all up to import the genuine Ford Focus HID assemblies, genuine ballasts and D1S HID globes from Ford Europe and figuring out wiring to get them to work with my car.

To be honest, I don't know if I'd buy another new car again, as I've bought 2 new cars, the only benefit is the new car smell for like a week, and that you know it won't give you any problems, but I'm not really the kind of person to keep a car longer than a few years as I get bored of them and want to try something else, and so I'm going to cop a massive depreciation hit.

What sells me on a car is the interior, the way the doors feel when you close them (satisfying heavy thud) and what gadgets it has like touch screens, good stereo etc. Or I'll see something and I get the feeling I love it, then thats what I'll buy.

I'm up for another car in 2014 when I'm off my Ps, i'll set a budget, criteria will be that its manual and away we go, stroll through Essendon Fields dealerships and Keilor road Niddre, see what takes my fancy, maybe I'll impulse buy new at a dealership, maybe I'll come home in a used 2001 F250 with the 7.3L diesel V8? I worked on a 7.3 F350 a few weeks back and I thought it was pretty damn nice with the 4 rear wheels and the way it drove.

I think Ford made the wrong descision in knocking back the Focus from being made here in Australia, small cars and SUVs seem to be the go these days with new buyers.

To me when I looked at FG Falcons, odd seating position, low quality interior which I actually snapped the bonnet latch off in my hand in a new car, didn't take much to break it off the dash, I pulled on it, not very hard rather than opening it if you know what I mean and all the imports seem to have better stereos and better equipped etc. Falcon is too much money for what it offers in the way of gadgets etc.

That being said I do have a 97 EL Fairmont Ghia I'm slowly working on and that will be the family cruiser to go on trips to see other family members as its a damn comfortable ride.

todays big post award.. Big Damo....

[jpd80]

The biggest change in Falcon sales has been caused by fleets all but abandoning it
and in my opinion that gap between E=Gas and EcoLPI was a fatal mistake that opened the door
to non-traditional competitors walking right in and taking over Falcon's fleet sales in petrol and LPG.

The other factor is that new novated leases on high use vehicles attract 20% FBT on cars,
a huge sting that companies and novated leasees are not prepared to cover...

We laugh at Camry and Aurion but as Toyota just showed, make them attractive and sales are there.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Yes, cars have gotten bigger and a lot heavier, but I'm not sure we've gained much apart from a few toys...after all, we don't want to go down the path that America did with bigger and bigger cars that they "needed" to have, and then the public turned and went towards middle sized and smaller cars...we should learn from their mistakes...

I think the added weight is largely due to the inbuilt safety cages and structures, bigger brakes and more complicated suspension/steering geometry that accompanies modern cars. It all adds up in the end.

I personally believe the Falcodore is struggling partially because of it's size. There are other factors like a bad reputation for unreliability/fuel economy/resale that put buyers off too. I find my current Falcon way too big for a daily driver, it's tedious and frustrating trying to squeeze into a tight car park and the suspension makes me sea sick. The new Falcons handle a lot better but the visiblity is terrible, so I won't be buying another full size car again.

[2011G6E]

As long as, I said, we can learn from others mistakes...America learned it with making larger and larger cars that, all of a sudden, no one wanted, and then learned it again with massive fuel gulping SUV's masquerading as "family wagons" that drank more fuel than a semi and were less safe than a Morris Minor. The fickle public suddenly didn't want them after the big three makers had spent hundreds of millions tooling up to build heaps of them, then they were stuck with unsellable trucks (because that's what the dinosaurs were), and had to hastily retool again to build "normal" cars.

Australia is unfortunately slowly going this way...people calling for Ford to import those monstrosities like the big trucks which are poorly build and dynamically shocking, and we have been fooled into thinking we all "need" a "big Aussie six" like a Falcon or Commodore. I'd agree with the resale value problems...even a G6E is "just a Falcon" and people don't see why they should pay a premium for a second hand one when there are just so damn many of them...hell, even the dealers will say the XR6 is almost the "normal" Falcon, with only usually fleet buyers picking up the base XT.

The world has changed...maybe Ford is right not pushing the Falcon too hard in advertising...the public wants economical yet spacious cars, which is easily met by things like the Mondeo and with Holden, the Cruze. We bought the G6E partly with our heart, but if we'd used our head, we'd have something more like a diesel Mondeo...

[Yellow_Festiva]

The Falcon is a great car, I had one for a day as a loaner when my Focus was getting warranty work. I think the market has very much shifted and the Falcon hasn't moved with the market.

If I were running the joint I would have concentrated the development efforts on making the Mondeo FWD or RWD (like Territory) and trying to keep its weight at around 1550kg (base model) and length at 4.8m.

Keep the 4cly and the diesel and slot in the 3.5l V6 for performance models as well as a Hybrid. 3/4's of the R&D is already done and what isn't will pay dividends due to the fact they are and will remain more attractive options (IMO).

It will still be a Falcon, it will still seat 4-5 in comfort, it will still have a decent boot and engine combinations and because it is a model a whole heap of other countries use development costs can be spread thinner. Will be economical and 'European'. RRP of around 30k is very possible perhaps??

If people want something to tow and go off road, (or a ute) get the Ranger. If people want a people mover get a Territory (and trim that as well). Will the Territory be viable running it solo?? What people mover options does Ford have????

I think the Falcon is trying to please too many segments of the market (including one of sentimentally). Bit like that car Homer 'designed'......

[davenl5l]

Originally Posted by Werd.

I think deep down a lot of people *want* Falcons, but it is just not a practical car for a few reasons.

Showed Mum a G6E in the shopping centre parking lot, response was "Wow that's nice, what's that? Look at the interior!", straight away she wanted to know the price.

She is not buying a Falcon in the future though, probably a smaller hatch due to lack of confidence driving. (Has an AU currently.)

I always wanted a Falcon, so I bought my AU, but now I find myself driving my smaller 4cyl manual, the AU is much nicer to drive, but less fun.
I'm still a hoon, and it's nice being able to hit the limiter, slam gears etc and be doing less than 60KM/H.

The Falcon doesn't sell to P platers.
It doesn't sell to women.

It's a great car but I don't see a market for it anymore. Who wants a 4L I6 that drinks 13L/100KM when you can get something smaller, cheaper, with better resale value, and ever increasing interior space?

I struggle to think of what a Falcon does better than any of these cars, hatches can fit your ikea stuff with the rear seats folded down (hell better than a falcon even).

If you need to load the boot with bags, 5 passengers inside and do freeway driving then the Falcon is the car for the job.

sorry but if she lacks confidence she should not drive size wont change that

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by davenl5l

sorry but if she lacks confidence she should not drive size wont change that

So Monday you'll be good to drive her to and from work?

Good lad.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I think the Falcon is trying to please too many segments of the market (including one of sentimentally). Bit like that car Homer 'designed'......

Yep it's old fashioned and utilitarian; daily work hack, kids taxi, cargo carrier, tow vehicle and in turbo/v8 guise .. weekend blaster. God I'll miss it when our disposable, over specialized, eco-friendly, politically correct society finally snuffs the Aussie sedan/wagon/ute out of existence ..

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by mik

Sorry bud, not every one wants a light truck , or buzz box, but the fact you can get a buzz box for half the price in this cash strapped day and age makes the local cars hard to contemplate.

well what are they all buying?? top two selling cars at the moment?? mazda 3 and toyota hilux. I don't want a buzz box or an suv. a light truck is more practical than any suv and is a different class. the same can be said about a hilux ute. it is not a light truck. but that's another thing that's incressing. sales of duel cab utes. people are going for these cars as they are more practical then the commodore and falcon. the others are going for smaller cars because the cost of fuel. ask someone with an suv that previously owned a falcon or commodore why they brought it. also, ask the same question too people that have downsized, and this is coming from someone who owns two falcons and has always loved large cars. if it was cost. then why isn't the cheaper mazda 2 the best seller??

[chopstar87]

there is many reasons regarding why the falcon/commodore doesn’t sell... one could be price, but personally for me, it think its the lack of features.

I have been looking to upgrade from my BA XR6, that i have had for 6 years (since i was 19) and now i am in the market for a new car... all the time it was going to be either a XR6 turbo or G6E turbo. yes they are brilliant performance cars, but there is just not the features i want in them.

I would love to get them for their performance, but realistically i could maybe use the performance 5% of the time, so i want to have all the comfort and luxury for the other 95% of the time, which they just don’t have.

at the same price point of the G6E turbo, i can get a 300c Luxury model, yes it doesn’t have a 0-100km in 5secs engine, but it does have:

- Heated and Cooled Front seats
- Heated and Cooled cup holders
- 19 speaker 900watt stereo (option - standard is 9 speaker 504watt system)
- dual pane sunroof (option -the fiancé' wants a sunroof, which falcon doesn’t even offer)
- Heat Rear Seats
- keyless entry and start
- 8 speed auto
- Voice control
- Adoptive cruise control
- front and rear parking sensors
- blind spot monitoring
- 20inch alloys
- leather covered dash board and centre consol
- 3x 12v power sockets
- power sunshade on the rear windscreen
- heated steering wheel

and the list goes on...

I think the big issue with falcon and commodore is that they are missing tech, which is held above driving ability of a car these days for most buyers. its all about features.

Cars for lot less money or a bit smaller, have the same amount if not more features then the top of the line falcons, so this is where ford have dropped the ball. because most people just want a car that goes A-B comfortably thats packed for features and thats it. the handling, the power.. doesnt matter.

[mik]

Originally Posted by wookie836

My XC is a old dinosaur but its a whole 500kgs lighter than a new FG, so if the FG was half a tonne lighter wouldnt its power to weight ratio be higher and combined with the torque of the barra, the fuel consumption would be a lot lower?
I dont understand why cars have to be so large now, i used to think that the XA-C's were massive but then i hopped in a fairlane and i think now that the old tank fairlanes are comparable to the size and weight of a new falcon, wtf happened?
I know a lot of people shop by their wallets over preference, some people are die hards for a brand/car type, others chop and change to suit their current situtations. But one thing a lot of people are concerned with these days is how much fuel a car would use over the next and that could be a good factor when buying a car within a certain price range [do i buy a cheap to run 4 cyl for a lot less than a more expensive larger car that uses more fuel?].
Wouldnt it be a smart idea if holden and ford chopped 500kgs or more out of these 'large' sedans and turn them into just sedans? putting the weight and size closer to a camry [which is as heavy as my XC and very similar in length and size] one would think the bean counters would have already thought about this and tried to put it in effect, that way at least the cars would be far more economic and powerful and that could be a factor that would work in their favour when people are buying a new car? i think these days falcons and commodores are made with fleet sales in mind because thats about all the business they get, id rather buy a old used car thats lighter and smaller than a new huge behemoth, besides the inital price difference between the two, i bet the running costs would be in favour for the older vehicle day to day.

speaking of weight , you are not taking into account the safety items in a modern car, air bags are very heavy, add anti lock brakes, bigger brakes, bigger wheels , more gears, safer stronger body structure, electric windows/electronic everything, 4/6/8 speaker stereo, etc,etc,etc, mate they don`t add weight for the sake of it, people keep asking for more stuff in them, if you want a light car, buy and all alloy bodied audi qauttro, i hope you have a good cheque book.

[FPVGT500]

My parents just signed up for Toyota 0% finance and got an Aurion with leather seats, 17 inch alloys,touchscreen and reverse camera for 34,990 drive away thats the problem falcon aint selling well if Ford had 0% they would've had our business.

[mik]

Originally Posted by wildrider

well what are they all buying?? top two selling cars at the moment?? mazda 3 and toyota hilux. I don't want a buzz box or an suv. a light truck is more practical than any suv and is a different class. the same can be said about a hilux ute. it is not a light truck. but that's another thing that's incressing. sales of duel cab utes. people are going for these cars as they are more practical then the commodore and falcon. the others are going for smaller cars because the cost of fuel. ask someone with an suv that previously owned a falcon or commodore why they brought it. also, ask the same question too people that have downsized, and this is coming from someone who owns two falcons and has always loved large cars. if it was cost. then why isn't the cheaper mazda 2 the best seller??

what is the break up of dual cabs and utes in that, knowing how many diesels would be interesting to? as for the mazda the 3 is the best seller , the base mazda 3 can be had for 20.9 k driveaway it`s a medium size car, i have a crisp $100 dollar note i would bet if the falcon /commy where 10 k cheaper it would be no contest, i reckon even at 6 or 7 k cheaper you would see the bigger cars looking much better in sales, imo it`s always going to be a tuff ask for a more expensive local cars regardless of size to compete with much cheaper imports in population that has a big percentage of low income earners.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Then we went off for a drive to Holden in Keilor road Niddre, I was walking around the yard, and I went to go open up a Cruze CDX diesel sitting in the lot, then someone locked the doors on me and went inside, what a bunch of ******.

I've read some ****erish things in the past that dealerships do, but...damn...that's pretty bad.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Werd.

.....

I struggle to think of what a Falcon does better than any of these cars, hatches can fit your ikea stuff with the rear seats folded down (hell better than a falcon even).

.

It has a longer bonnet, therefore crumples longer and mitigates the forces on the occupants better.

Bonnet length, generally speaking, in a frontal accident, distributes the decelleration forces for a greater period of time and the consequences are far less forces on internal organs in a body, in fact a direct corellation to bonnet length in simplistic terms.

That characteristic, coupled with added mass makes it a safer choice.

Of course there are always exceptions, but in two well built cars the heavier car with longer bonnet wins.

What price would one pay in fuel and gadget terms to potentially have the difference between plaster and wheelchair for life in a collision outcome?


The same can be said of the length of the rear boot compartment in a rear collison.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by wookie836

My XC is a old dinosaur but its a whole 500kgs lighter than a new FG, so if the FG was half a tonne lighter wouldnt its power to weight ratio be higher and combined with the torque of the barra, the fuel consumption would be a lot lower?
I dont understand why cars have to be so large now, i used to think that the XA-C's were massive but then i hopped in a fairlane and i think now that the old tank fairlanes are comparable to the size and weight of a new falcon, wtf happened?
I know a lot of people shop by their wallets over preference, some people are die hards for a brand/car type, others chop and change to suit their current situtations. But one thing a lot of people are concerned with these days is how much fuel a car would use over the next and that could be a good factor when buying a car within a certain price range [do i buy a cheap to run 4 cyl for a lot less than a more expensive larger car that uses more fuel?].
Wouldnt it be a smart idea if holden and ford chopped 500kgs or more out of these 'large' sedans and turn them into just sedans? putting the weight and size closer to a camry [which is as heavy as my XC and very similar in length and size] one would think the bean counters would have already thought about this and tried to put it in effect, that way at least the cars would be far more economic and powerful and that could be a factor that would work in their favour when people are buying a new car? i think these days falcons and commodores are made with fleet sales in mind because thats about all the business they get, id rather buy a old used car thats lighter and smaller than a new huge behemoth, besides the inital price difference between the two, i bet the running costs would be in favour for the older vehicle day to day.

This , under 30k , under 1500 kg and a real wagon available with cruising economy less than 9l/100 , around town less than 12l/100 , I would be interested for sure and it is doable . I think it would sell heaps being a modern rwd Ford with great styling and construction

[atec77]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

My story of buying cars:

In 2007 when I got my Ls I was really interested in a V8 car, but they changed the rules regarding P plate laws the same year, and thats when I became interested in Jap imports instead. I've never been able to own V8s because I can't drive them legally, and so that pretty much killed it for me, I don't think I'd even bother anymore because the fad has well and truely worn off for me, just doesn't interest me. That turbo spooling up on the other hand

Having a friend who has ground up rebuilt a 1982 Mazda RX7 with a built 12A with all the goodies, also sways you towards a different direction.

Before I bought my WS Fiesta new from the dealership in 2009 as my first car, I set myself a budget of $15,000 and criteria of manual:

I was out with Mum for the day and we stopped to get KFC in Fawkner, and I noticed there was a used car yard right by so after lunch I told mum and we went across to look at some cars.

It was a used jap import lot in Fawkner, I come across a nice 4 door NA R34 Skyline with low ks (probably wound back haha), which was in great condition, popped the bonnet, no oil leaks I could see, the only downside was the car has been smoked in and had some cigarette burns in the interior, I don't really mind the smell of smoke so it didn't bother me much.

I asked if the owner of the yard could take me around for a drive so we could test it, he said he didn't want to waste his time moving cars around if I wasn't going to buy and wanted a $500 deposit. I said I'm interested and I'll come back next week with the deposit and he can take me for a ride.

Mum approved of the car, told Dad about it and he said alright no worries.

Next week comes, I go back to Fawkner with the parents and ask him about the Skyline, and he sold it the next day after I left and didn't ring me to tell me before I came back :'(

I was pretty upset, I liked that car, looking back he probably did me a massive favor.

I was looking all over carsales for something $15,000 and manual, and I come across a Mazda 6 luxury which was optioned up, freakin' sweet. It was out around Preston at another used car yard, I got my parents to take me out there to check it out, I had called them and they said they had it here ready for me to look at, all excited we leave home.

My cousin in the meantime buys an orange 2003 BA XR6 Falcon for his first car, though it was auto, set him back $11,000 and he sent me some pictures, I searched for manual ones but at the time couldn't find any under $20,000.

We got caught up in traffic right next to Max Kirwin Mazda in Preston, Dad asked if I wanted to go in and check out the cars, so we wonder about the yard, I didn't find anything too interesting, except I picked up a brochure for a new Mazda 2, I tried talking to people but they didn't seem too interested in dealing with me, so we left to go to the used car yard.

I arrive at the used car yard, and talk to the salesman on the phone, looking around I ask where the Mazda 6 was, he told me he sold it 15 minutes before we arrived....

I wasn't too happy, but he showed me this 1997 E36 BMW 328i coupe, I thought it was pretty cool, manual, 2.8L Inline 6 and RWD, sweet, until I opened the door and it dropped a bit in my hand, so it must have been in an accident, I left.

Another time me and the old man went out to the dealerships at Essendon Fields, there was Ford, Hyundai, Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge, Honda, Mazda and Toyota at the time right next to each other, its like a massive car yard strip in Essendon Airport (which I'd later work there for 6 months in 2010).

We went straight into Mazda because my old man was a Mazda fanboy and a salesman approached us, and asked us if we were interested in any cars, and he pointed out a new Mazda 2 base model in manual to me, I said how much? We went over to his bench and the old man started to negotiate, we ended up getting it down to $16,300 drive away, I could stretch the budget, but I said maybe I should look at other cars before I sign, and so took the salesman's card and he took my details, sweet.

I went over to Ford to have a look around, and come across some BA XR6s and an XR4 Fiesta, what turned me off the Falcon was how crappy the interior was, all low quality plastics, odd seating position, I'm a fat ***** so even with the wheel all the way up, and the seat in its lowest position, it was awkward getting in and out of the car, as I'd have to wriggle around the steering wheel as it would hit on my thigh getting in/out.

The XR4 also had a low quality interior, everything seemed and felt cheaply put together and made.

(I've also driven our company car 2003 BA Fairmont Ghia with the 3V V8 and its a hunk of crap)

I left and I couldn't be bothered looking at anything else.

When I went home my parents talked me into getting a new small car, so we went out to Sunbury Ford a few days later and they had a new WS Fiesta CL on the lot, only one they had was Morello with no options, they let me test drive it without a license (LOL) and I ended up signing the dotted line for $18,000 drive away.

The interior quality in those cars is pretty damn good, the dash is soft touch vinyl, the steering wheel moves in and out and up/down, there is a massive amount of adjustment on the seat in height, so I could actually make it really comfortable unlike the Falcon. The stereo has mids and separate tweeters for the fronts, MP3 compatability, steering wheel controls, aux input, was pretty amazed when I got into it.

I ended up keeping it for about a year and a half, then I went about looking for another car because I got bored with it.

I actually looked at an R6 Falcon ute in manual they had sitting new in Sunbury Ford (they had recently changed hands, none of the old salesman were there). I was pretty keen for it, I stood around for 45 minutes before someone finally walked out of the show room to talk to me, and asked what I wanted, I said that ute there, and I go how much, he said $34,000, I told him do better, and he says I'm trying to do my job, if you aren't interested stop wasting my time, I said I'm interested so go inside and talk to your dealer principle and come back out.

He comes back out and says $32,000, I said $27,500 and I'll take it today. He wouldn't budge. Given for around that amount of money I could have had an XR6 it defies logic.

I'd also rang up one of our forum sponsors and they said they could get me a 6sp auto Falcon ute, for $26,000 drive away, but not a 6sp manual one as they didn't see any in stock in the country and it would have to be built on the line and it would end up costing more than their runouts.

I finished up at work on a Friday at 1pm like usual, met my old man and we went back to the dealerships in Essendon Fields, I wanted to spend maximum $27,500 drive away, had to be manual.

I went into Hyundai and no one wanted to deal with me, so I walked out, we went to Mazda to check out the Mazda 3 diesel, but they didn't have any in stock and it was a touch expensive. Then we went off for a drive to Holden in Keilor road Niddre, I was walking around the yard, and I went to go open up a Cruze CDX diesel sitting in the lot, then someone locked the doors on me and went inside, what a bunch of ******.

So we went back to Essendon Ford and I wasn't aware of the TDCI Focus, one of my mates who used to work with me at Honda noticed me and come right up to us, and I said I want one of those, except white, diesel and manual, he said $25,990 and I said where do I sign?

I totalled it like 3 weeks later and ended up getting another through insurance later on.

In hindsight I sorta wish I went for the Mazda 3 diesel as it has a slightly larger engine (2.2L) and has factory HIDs, rather than me **** farting around, spending about $2000 all up to import the genuine Ford Focus HID assemblies, genuine ballasts and D1S HID globes from Ford Europe and figuring out wiring to get them to work with my car.

To be honest, I don't know if I'd buy another new car again, as I've bought 2 new cars, the only benefit is the new car smell for like a week, and that you know it won't give you any problems, but I'm not really the kind of person to keep a car longer than a few years as I get bored of them and want to try something else, and so I'm going to cop a massive depreciation hit.

What sells me on a car is the interior, the way the doors feel when you close them (satisfying heavy thud) and what gadgets it has like touch screens, good stereo etc. Or I'll see something and I get the feeling I love it, then thats what I'll buy.

I'm up for another car in 2014 when I'm off my Ps, i'll set a budget, criteria will be that its manual and away we go, stroll through Essendon Fields dealerships and Keilor road Niddre, see what takes my fancy, maybe I'll impulse buy new at a dealership, maybe I'll come home in a used 2001 F250 with the 7.3L diesel V8? I worked on a 7.3 F350 a few weeks back and I thought it was pretty damn nice with the 4 rear wheels and the way it drove.

I think Ford made the wrong descision in knocking back the Focus from being made here in Australia, small cars and SUVs seem to be the go these days with new buyers.

To me when I looked at FG Falcons, odd seating position, low quality interior which I actually snapped the bonnet latch off in my hand in a new car, didn't take much to break it off the dash, I pulled on it, not very hard rather than opening it if you know what I mean and all the imports seem to have better stereos and better equipped etc. Falcon is too much money for what it offers in the way of gadgets etc.

That being said I do have a 97 EL Fairmont Ghia I'm slowly working on and that will be the family cruiser to go on trips to see other family members as its a damn comfortable ride.

Thats some post sunshine , interesting as many points are valid for me and you did several times point out why car sales people are such toads , I always dress down when shopping which usually results in some very bad sales behavior

[XR_Strider_GuY]

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

This pretty much sums it up IMO. I removed the 5th point because I dont entirely agree with that one. I agree with that being the mass perception though.

In a throw away society, naturally the end consumer wants to pay as little as possible for something theyre going to replace in a short time. Combined with trying to combine a "need" & a "want" vehicle as much as possible. This is not offered in a large sedan that costs $40k brand new.
However, I believe Fords idea of selling to profit, as opposed to volume selling is a fantastic idea. It keeps the Falcon-style platform viable.
I think the days of large sedans are truly over forever as a B&B seller, but FoA have structured it well for niche marketing.

When I meant traffic, in the olden days the highways were much quieter and having a big car meant the ability to carry more and travel and higher speeds with ease. In the world of bumper to bumper traffic power is for the most part irrelevant (unless one is crazy like me where my XR8 is not a means of a transport so I can pick my days to enjoy the drive).
Also I should include, sociology factors. The days of the family all going in one car for long distances are gone. Cheap airfares have closed a loop on that.