Wikileaks discussion - Page 2

wrongwaynorris · 04-12-2010, 05:44 PM

So wikileaks independantly ( through more than 2 sources ) verifies EVERYTHING they publish do they ? Like quality jouralists do , you know little things like establishing FACTS and other pesky little details that get in the way of sensationalism , gutter journalism ( although calling this journalism is legitimizing it way beyond what it is ) and making a buck . Assange is Vermin and I for one will be shedding no tears if he does end up dead or gaoled for life.

Barnaby · 04-12-2010, 06:01 PM

Looks like someone is having a problem adjusting to the "Facebook generation" disturbing their corrupt, screwed up little world...take a happy pill and have a nap.

wrongwaynorris · 04-12-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnaby

Looks like someone is having a problem adjusting to the "Facebook generation" disturbing their corrupt, screwed up little world...take a happy pill and have a nap.

Are you as naive and stupid as your posts suggest ?

XR6Runner · 04-12-2010, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Assange is Vermin and I for one will be shedding no tears if he does end up dead or gaoled for life.

My question is the most important. Why do you feel this way?

I can give a great hypothetical example:
You are living your life normally, making ends meet, what ever, just living life normally. All of a sudden, the workplace your wife works at gets 100% destroyed by forces from the other side of the earth, in the name of anti terrorism. They hit the wrong target. Kill so many innocent, and GET AWAY WITH IT.

How do you feel?

This is just a basic view from those who live on the other side of the world. But according to the US, "All terrorists must die!".

Who are the real terrorists?

EDIT: "wrongwaynorris" - From your generalised responses and answers, you obviously have no idea, and also, like the many people who disagree with 'Wikileaks', have no clue, no idea, or plainly just dont give a rats *** about the innocent.

Just because they wear different cloths, live different lives, speak different languages, doesn't mean you should just not care. We are all humans. We are all equal. And when innocent die because of wrong doing, the wrongful shall be punished.

For how many years has the US government being wrong doing? Too many, and its great that somebody had the courage to stand up and make a difference.

EDIT 2: Makes me think you 'nay sayers' have something to hide your self.

XR6Runner · 04-12-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

So wikileaks independantly ( through more than 2 sources ) verifies EVERYTHING they publish do they ? Like quality jouralists do , you know little things like establishing FACTS and other pesky little details that get in the way of sensationalism , gutter journalism ( although calling this journalism is legitimizing it way beyond what it is ) and making a buck . Assange is Vermin and I for one will be shedding no tears if he does end up dead or gaoled for life.

Mate, Wikileaks make NO money or profit.

gtfpv · 04-12-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Now who's scared of thre truth coming out !

let the website stay . let people calling the guy a winker get the thread closed , and then it has nothing to do with this forum and it will be business as usual , thats up to the mods not me .

Spudz27 · 04-12-2010, 06:38 PM

I am not a fan, but surely this guy knew he was going to become a wanted man. People like this guy have a tendancy to just, sought of, fall off the planet. I would hate to be him now.

Jim Goose · 04-12-2010, 06:57 PM

Yes lets all form death squads and kill people for showing the world the shames of a corrupt system.... how dare he walk on earth. Disgusting, we must kill people like this for showing the truth....

We want more wars, corruption, killing, torture, kidnapping, less rights, we all want to be molested at an airport, we all want more speed cameras, more licence fees for fishing, sports, shooting..... we all want to be afriad of our governments.

God help us all with attitudes like that.

WMD351 · 04-12-2010, 07:07 PM

On the one hand, Assange 'claims' that he offers everything he's about to leak to the Americans so that they can censor anything that will be detrimental to the safety of their troops, and they have always declined the offer. True or not? I don't know.

On the other hand, maybe America's way is not perfect but it's the best option we've got. I don't know, the only thing I'm sure of is that living under Sharia law is not my cup of tea.

And besides, the courts have shut down Limewire and there's no more downloading music anymore is there?

Jim Goose · 04-12-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

On the other hand, maybe America's way is not perfect but it's the best option we've got. I don't know, the only thing I'm sure of is that living under Sharia law is not my cup of tea.

And what does this have to do with wikileaks?

04redxr8 · 04-12-2010, 07:24 PM

Could someone please fill me in as to what all this about? I get the impression that it is about a man who has leaked classified US Government info to the net?

@ HP4ME, and WrongWayNorris.

What are you both so upset about if this is the case? How are you both affected by political leaks from the US?

On another note, I watched a program about a year ago.It was out of the US, and it related to an incident in the 50's. The program was allowed to be made due to the statute of limits on FOI.

The story was about a Naval ship that docked in a port in the US. Not sure which state. It was docked there for a period of time without revealing the true nature of its mission. There was a school located nearby, and the students of that school were monitored for the following years.

Through the ongoing monitoring, an alarming trend emerged. The former students of this school were developing cancers at rate that was far greater than anywhere else in the country. Sort of a cancer cluster if you will.

The actual purpose or mission of the ship were sealed. However, it was only the students of the school that the Government was interested in. Now, the conspiracy theorists will jump to the same conclusion, that the ship was omitting some form of chemical in the air, or poluting the waterways. The Government has never responded.

The exact truth has been buried, but enough info has been leaked that there is something a miss. All the ino that was released was doen so by the US Government under Freedom Of Information.

If my understanding of this Assange and his actions are correct, would you not like this sort of information to be released? Would you not like to know if you or family was being poisoned? Burying your head in the sand and believing that a Government has its own peoples best interests at stake, when it is the one poisoning them is a little naive.

There are certain things we don't need to know. But a Government is trialling Bio-Weapons on its own people, then that is something we should all know.

fmc351 · 04-12-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMD351

On the one hand, Assange 'claims' that he offers everything he's about to leak to the Americans so that they can censor anything that will be detrimental to the safety of their troops, and they have always declined the offer. True or not? I don't know.

On the other hand, maybe America's way is not perfect but it's the best option we've got. I don't know, the only thing I'm sure of is that living under Sharia law is not my cup of tea.

And besides, the courts have shut down Limewire and there's no more downloading music anymore is there?

A sad truth. The hope is the US do so with right and wrong as an end goal, obviously not in method. Basically, the ends justify the means. The underhandedness of the US is what superpowers have been doing forever out of necessity. Id prefer their version than the Chinese version, I doubt Sharia Law is a real threat to us in the same sense.

If the yanks werent doing it, the Chinese would be, well they are, just not to the same global extent ...yet.

We will never live in a utopia, human nature on mass isnt geared that way.

In the end, nothing released is not something the others arent doing. They all have files, they all backstab, and would be fairly well aware of what is being said and done in secret.

The wheels, they will keep turning.

Bucknaked · 04-12-2010, 07:26 PM

He's standing up for what he believes in. My theory is, if you don't believe the stuff he believes, change the chanel. He's going to say what he wants. It's upto you as to whether you believe him or not or even care. I don't really care, but if it's the truth, then I'm all for it and good on him for having the balls to stand up for he believes in.

WMD351 · 04-12-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

And what does this have to do with wikileaks?

Well I was under the impression that Wikileaks had a none to small interest in what America gets up to in Afghanistan regarding the Taliban.

rodderz · 04-12-2010, 08:46 PM

I'm all for this guy, he's putting governments and agencies in question that have previously never had anyone to answer to. It's probably escalated quicker than what he wanted, and I think the outcome will end bad for him though. You can only imagine what the CIA/FBI and other organisations are doing to track him down. His benefit however is that because he is so high profile now they will have to be careful what they do to him.

All the americans are saying he should be killed as he has put lives at risk, he has reported on events already occurred however, and who's to say that what he has done is any worse than what the yanks sent them for? They've been in Afghanistan and Iraq for 9 years, because they thought some bloke was hiding there with his terrorist mates? The whole debacle if that was the right reason should of been over and done with years ago.

His next supposed leaks will be about the big banks. That will be the big one. The banks have control over everything- the economy, recessions, when wars happen, and the ceo's are all tied with those at the top of governments, defense and large companies. Good on him for keeping them honest

fmc351 · 04-12-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

His benefit however is that because he is so high profile now they will have to be careful what they do to him.

You underestimate apathy.

They could whack him and let some tinfoil nutter take the rap. They could just whack him and disappear into the broad daylight, never solve who did it. Questions? Of course, just like the wars you mentioned. Nothing comes of it.

The wheels, they just keep turning.

rodderz · 04-12-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

You underestimate apathy.

They could whack him and let some tinfoil nutter take the rap. They could just whack him and disappear into the broad daylight, never solve who did it. Questions? Of course, just like the wars you mentioned. Nothing comes of it.

The wheels, they just keep turning.

good point... like you mean Lee Harvey Oswald...or the bloke that shot him...or Bin Laden still hiding in his cave lol everyone disappears

Or in Assange's case if he gets knocked they can just say he is still in hiding from his rape case.

DoreSlamR · 04-12-2010, 09:38 PM

I wonder how many here that are calling Assange every name under the sun really know what wikileaks is all about, or are they just repeating what someone else has said?

Fact is wikileaks has done a whole lot of good, they're the ones who exposed the Icelandic bank scandal, the Peru oil scandal, Iran nuclear incident and several other big scandals and coverups.

They were also the first to publish the black list for the Australian government's internet censorship scheme.

Another recent one was the release of footage from an Apache attack helicopter that gunned down civilians and journalists in Iraq, footage that the US government tried to cover up.

The latest cable releases, IMHO puts every world leader on a level playing field.

Jim Goose · 04-12-2010, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMD351

Well I was under the impression that Wikileaks had a none to small interest in what America gets up to in Afghanistan regarding the Taliban.

You need to inform yourself a bit more then

fmc351 · 04-12-2010, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

good point... like you mean Lee Harvey Oswald...or the bloke that shot him...or Bin Laden still hiding in his cave lol everyone disappears

Or in Assange's case if he gets knocked they can just say he is still in hiding from his rape case.

It isnt just the US government that would be glad to see him dead, there are enough 'patriots' who would gladly take matters in their own hands. There are conspiracy nutters, then there are genuine conspiracies. Ricin and umbrellas spring to mind, I think it was ricin.

There are endless possibilities, and endless combinations of perpetrators and directions to deflect attention.

If they got OBL, they would be showing everyone. No need to keep his death secret.

Keepleft · 04-12-2010, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

The latest cable releases, IMHO puts every world leader on a level playing field.

They (US Dept leaks) are not the highest level security communications.

Of course, the more hands in the chain, the more likelihood of 'leaks', for a submitters personal political gain, or 'whatever' reason/s.

Bobman · 05-12-2010, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

So to follow your logic you'd be perfectly happy with people rifling through your

Lol. National security. Government already spy on its citizens. So why should we be perfectly happy about that?

Remember that the USA passed legislation to enable tapping in on phone calls of regular citizens without court orders.

Good to see a site that stands up to Government and Government lovers all over the world!

Barnaby · 05-12-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Are you as naive and stupid as your posts suggest ?

Woops, still hasn't had his nap.

Try not to mix your nap medication with your Viagra old fella, it turns you all crusty...

irish2 · 05-12-2010, 01:34 PM

For wrongwaynorris and anybody who believes that America and its' allies are for free speech should watch the film "Loose Change". Then you may question why a fuel that burns at 1100 degrees C can melt something that has a melting point over 1700 C. The whole worlds laws, domestic and international policy is built upon lies. Wikileaks may make people think twice about using lies for political advancement.

rodderz · 05-12-2010, 01:47 PM

Saw a few good points on comments on the news.com.au website.

Why is it the US is so fast to stop a website such as wikileaks, when there are hundreds of illegal underage porn sites out there? They are quite clearly embarrassed about the whole thing.

Or why are they shooting the messenger? He has only published the articles, the government has firstly written all these documents, then someone within the government has spent considerable time downloading them all and sending them to wikileaks.

Rangas GTP · 05-12-2010, 02:30 PM

Simple to understand really.

2010-12-04: NSW Supreme Court solicitor Peter Kemp: Letter to Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard
Submitted by admin on Sat, 12/04/2010 - 04:09
By Peter Kemp, Solicitor of the Supreme Court of NSW, on 2010-12-04

Dear Prime Minister
From the Sydney Morning Herald I note you made a comment of "illegal" on the matter of Mr Assange in relation to the ongoing leaks of US diplomatic cables.

Previously your colleague and Attorney General the Honourable McClelland announced an investigation of possible criminality by Mr Assange.

As a lawyer and citizen I find this most disturbing, particularly so when a brief perusal of the Commonwealth Criminal Code shows that liability arises under the Espionage provisions, for example, only when it is the Commonwealth's "secrets" that are disclosed and that there must be intent to damage the Commonwealth.

Likewise under Treason law, there must be an intent to assist an enemy. Clearly, and reinforced by publicly available material such as Professor Saul's excellent article:
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/soc...cry-over-wikil...
...Julian Assange has almost certainly committed no crime under Australian law in relation to his involvement in Wikileaks.

I join with Professor Saul also in asking you Prime Minister why has there been no public complaint to the US about both Secretaries of State Condaleeza Rice and Hillary Clinton being in major breach of International law ie UN Covenants, by making orders to spy on UN personnel, including the Secretary General, to include theft of their credit card details and communication passwords. Perhaps the Attorney General should investigate this clear prima facie evidence of crime (likely against Australian diplomats as well), rather than he attempts to prosecute the messenger of those crimes.

It is also disturbing that no Australian official has castigated Sweden for the shameful treatment Mr Assange has received ie his human rights abused, in that he has not been charged and served with papers in the English language regarding the evidence against him of alleged sexual offences. This is contrary to Article 6 of the European Covenant on Human Rights to which Sweden is a signatory nation.

Those offences remain unclear and the Swedish prosecutor Ms Ny appears to be making up the law as she wants. It appears now, by Ms Ny's interpretation that when consensual sex occurs but if a condom breaks, the male party is liable to 2 years imprisonment for sexual assault. All this information is publicly available.

An Australian citizen is apparently being singled out for "special treatment" Prime Minister. There are legitimate concerns among citizens here that his treatment by the Swedes is connected to US interests which are against the activities of Wikileaks, and you will note the strident, outrageous (and illegal) calls inciting violence against him in the US in demands for his assassination, by senior influential US politicians.

Granted that in western political circles, Mr Assange is not flavour of the month, but what he is doing in my opinion, and in the opinion of many here and abroad, is vitally necessary to expose American foreign policy failures and potential war crimes and crimes against humanity--not for the purpose of damaging US interests but to make them accountable.

While we have close and a good relationship with the US, there is no doubt that US influence and power is declining. That we appear to be still posturing, (given that declining power and a new paradigm of privately enforced accountability) to the US on the issue of Wikileaks is, Prime Minister, deeply disappointing.

Yours Faithfully
Peter Kemp.

(Readers are encouraged contact the Australian Prime Minister here: http://www.pm.gov.au/PM_Connect/Email_your_PM

rodderz · 05-12-2010, 05:44 PM

Well thats a bit of ownage for Gillard, after her claiming that the wikileaks was illegal just to keep the yanks happy and on side.

They're using the rape allegation to use as the excuse for deportation and arrest, yet all the focus and anger is about the published cables, which was allowed to be leaked by the US.

Bobman · 05-12-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

You can only imagine what the CIA/FBI and other organisations are doing to track him down.

Well said about putting GovIncs to question. Since they can't even find Osama in some cave somewhere, so maybe, just maybe he'll be okay.

Quote:

His next supposed leaks will be about the big banks. That will be the big one. The banks have control over everything- the economy, recessions, when wars happen, and the ceo's are all tied with those at the top of governments, defense and large companies. Good on him for keeping them honest

Exactly. Hope it keeps up. The truth needs to come out about the events in our global society. Hopefully more truth comes out about the 9/11 attacks and other events from the 1970s - 1990s.

Jim Goose · 05-12-2010, 06:10 PM

One also needs to ask the question as to why he has made Interpols most wanted list for an arrest warrant for rape??? A world wide arrest warrant for alleged rape!
There are terrorists, mass murders who dont make interpols list, yet he does?
Why the "special" treatment?

Next is the call from the (former?) Canadian Deputy Prime Minister who on national TV made the comment that Assange "should be ASSINATED" and then laughs about it.
I mean seriously a world leader calls for the murder of an Australian Citizen (or any citizen for that matter) that hasnt commited what one would call a heinious (spelling) crime??

He isnt a mass murderer, not a terrorist, didnt touch up 100s of children in some church...... yet he should be killed??
We cant even go to an airport and say the word BOMB as a joke without being arrested, violated, held in jail for days on end and have all your life history investigated.
Come on people if this is the world you prefer to live in.. then we have no hope at all.

rodderz · 05-12-2010, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

One also needs to ask the question as to why he has made Interpols most wanted list for an arrest warrant for rape??? A world wide arrest warrant for alleged rape!
There are terrorists, mass murders who dont make interpols list, yet he does?
Why the "special" treatment?

Next is the call from the (former?) Canadian Deputy Prime Minister who on national TV made the comment that Assange "should be ASSINATED" and then laughs about it.
I mean seriously a world leader calls for the murder of an Australian Citizen (or any citizen for that matter) that hasnt commited what one would call a heinious (spelling) crime??

He isnt a mass murderer, not a terrorist, didnt touch up 100s of children in some church...... yet he should be killed??
We cant even go to an airport and say the word BOMB as a joke without being arrested, violated, held in jail for days on end and have all your life history investigated.
Come on people if this is the world you prefer to live in.. then we have no hope at all.

Exactly, the rape allegation is only a front for the reason of getting him caught. Fancy a worldwide hunt for an alledged rapist, yet there is no mention of the actual rape case, nor how the woman is who was alledged to have been raped, only a gang of dodgy pollies teaming up with one another wanting him shot.

This whole saga could snowball onwards, other high-profile people could come out in support of him, causing more to do the same causing a massive headache for the US. Even worse for them, would be people in positions of getting such classified information to be inspired by his actions and get more info to wikileaks. Who knows what info could be released.