Slow driver causes accident

[bodes-sh]

Originally Posted by Outback

I hope the bike rider had insurance to pay for the damage he cause to the car he hit, see impatient riders and drivers like you should , either catch a bus or if your in so much of a hurry to get places , leave 30 mins earlier.
there is no law in how slow you want to travel.

there is a law actually. you can get booked for travelling excessively slowly if the conditions don't require you to.

[2.8L Hilux]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

All comes backs to one thing - a SPEED DIFFERENCE is what is dangerous and kills, not a speed limit, not high speed, but deliberately causing a speed difference by being totally incompetant and/or ignorant and oblivious to the common curtesy of any other road user, by driving too slow, or too fast, for the conditions and traffic around you.

You are dead right mate. I remember when on my L's sitting on 80 down the highway. It was pretty scary having cars and trucks zoom past at 120 and a bank up of traffic behind.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

there is a law actually. you can get booked for travelling excessively slowly if the conditions don't require you to.

In these sorts of replies it is often a good idea to find the law and quote it, as I did for QLD law.

In QLD the law is quite liberal in its definition of too slow, its example of too slow is 20km/h in an 80 zone, not the 10-20km/h under the limit that most here consider too slow.

[xe351]

Originally Posted by Outback

I hope the bike rider had insurance to pay for the damage he cause to the car he hit, see impatient riders and drivers like you should , either catch a bus or if your in so much of a hurry to get places , leave 30 mins earlier.
there is no law in how slow you want to travel.

its this "im the only one on the road, damn everyone else" attitude that starts the problem to begin with, honestly its just rude, howabout if your going slow, pull over ever so often and let the people on with their lives, everyone will be happier

[kezzer]

I hate it when they are going slow as guts, you try and pass them and they speed up!! Happened this weekend actually, I was driving a few friends up to lake eildon and on the way a nissan suv of sometype was doing this, we finally got past them and they flash us and try causing another accident. I dont wanna say what we did next, but he stopped. Still bloody a-holes.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by kezzer

I hate it when they are going slow as guts, you try and pass them and they speed up!! Happened this weekend actually, I was driving a few friends up to lake eildon and on the way a nissan suv of sometype was doing this, we finally got past them and they flash us and try causing another accident. I dont wanna say what we did next, but he stopped. Still bloody a-holes.

Illegal to do this in QLD and I suggest all other states

Driver being overtaken not to increase speed
If a driver is overtaking another driver on a two-way road by
crossing a dividing line, or crossing to the right of the centre
of the road, the other driver must not increase the speed at
which the driver is driving until the first driver—
(a) has passed the other driver; and
(b) has returned to the marked lane or line of traffic where
the other driver is driving; and
(c) is a sufficient distance in front of the other driver to
avoid a collision.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by Outback

I hope the bike rider had insurance to pay for the damage he cause to the car he hit, see impatient riders and drivers like you should , either catch a bus or if your in so much of a hurry to get places , leave 30 mins earlier.
there is no law in how slow you want to travel.

100% agree with you outback, the bike rider was just not travelling a safe distance.

Originally Posted by xe351

its this "im the only one on the road, damn everyone else" attitude that starts the problem to begin with, honestly its just rude, howabout if your going slow, pull over ever so often and let the people on with their lives, everyone will be happier

XE351 100% agree with you too. The bike rider should not have that kind of attitude. If he had of been riding with due car and attention and not an unsafe distance the person that was driving cautiously would not have had thier car damaged by the rider.

[04redxr8]

I think personally, driving way below the speed limit is just as dangerous as driving over it. Being well below the speed limit causes a difference of speed among vehicles and this is what causes accidents.

When I did my driving test (19 years ago in Sydney) I was informed by my instructor that driving below the speed limit would cost me points and jeopardise my license under "obstructing traffic flow" rules. I don't know if this is still in place, but if we needed to do it as learners with limited experience, I fail to see why it is a problem for people who have been driving for some time.

Whenever I take the Mains Rd onramp to the City, I always see people who get to the freeway at 60kph, and then immediately merge to the right. I see people on the freeway have to brake to let these feels in, causing everybody else behind them to brake to avoid a collision. This happens daily. I have seen a lot near misses over the years that could so easily have been avoided by drivers staying in the left lane until they have reached freeway speeds before merging.

Slow drivers are just as dangerous as people who drive too fast for the conditions. Put them both on the same road together and its a recipe for disaster.

[xe351]

Originally Posted by Yaw

100% agree with you outback, the bike rider was just not travelling a safe distance.




XE351 100% agree with you too. The bike rider should not have that kind of attitude. If he had of been riding with due car and attention and not an unsafe distance the person that was driving cautiously would not have had thier car damaged by the rider.

While the bike rider was legally in the wrong, i was referring to the car driver. I interpret the "cautious driver" in this circumstance as an "incompetent driver" going by the information given. I refer back, if you need to travel slowly - slower than speed limits or conditions allow, safely and politely pull over and let people past, the extra minute it takes to pull over and let people past wont matter when they are clearly not in a hurry.

[xe351]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

I think personally, driving way below the speed limit is just as dangerous as driving over it. Being well below the speed limit causes a difference of speed among vehicles and this is what causes accidents.

When I did my driving test (19 years ago in Sydney) I was informed by my instructor that driving below the speed limit would cost me points and jeopardise my license under "obstructing traffic flow" rules. I don't know if this is still in place, but if we needed to do it as learners with limited experience, I fail to see why it is a problem for people who have been driving for some time.

Whenever I take the Mains Rd onramp to the City, I always see people who get to the freeway at 60kph, and then immediately merge to the right. I see people on the freeway have to brake to let these feels in, causing everybody else behind them to brake to avoid a collision. This happens daily. I have seen a lot near misses over the years that could so easily have been avoided by drivers staying in the left lane until they have reached freeway speeds before merging.

Slow drivers are just as dangerous as people who drive too fast for the conditions. Put them both on the same road together and its a recipe for disaster.

Agree 100% i'm surprised there are not more freeway onramp accidents

[Spanrz]

Been to the States a few times. And boy I can tell you, driving in a country with 17 times the population of Australia, is much more enjoyable than driving here.

Everyone does the speed limit, some people do over, but one thing, traffic flows so much better.
See the thing is, the Police, yes the Police do allow you to speed, if it means to keep traffic flowing.

I've done 73mph in a 70mph zone through 3-4 cop cars in under 5 miles.
All cops didn't chase me. They chased the ones doing 80mph.

But people here, get scared, "oooh camera car, I better stop from 80kph's so he doesn't flash me in a 100kph zone".
On a freeway 100kph zone, and cars stop because of a camera car (that in my opinion was illegal anyway), because they are so frightened to get anywhere near 10kph of the speed limit due to the media about "camera's being faulty".

I don't mind someone doing within 5 k's under the speed limit, but please don't do 50 where it's signposted 100.

[ltd]

I love the fact that we are multicultural; I love the plethora of Toyotas and the "New Australians" that previously rode a bicycle or farm animal before attempting to take on Australias roads. Always fun, always exciting. When I'm sitting in traffic going nowhere my new hobby is poetry. In the delays I have remodelled an Australian classic, here's just a sample for you;

I love a multi country,
A land of toyota and kia,
Of muslims, turbans and africans,
Of the chinese and those from korea.

I love how when a sign says 60,
too often it's completely ignored.
That Truong or Raj can only do 35,
Oblivious to the tailgating Fords.

It's frustrating enough when you have to be somewhere,
Or when you even just need to go,
But these new aussies, bereft of motor skills
Do nothing but stop traffic flow.

Stop then turn left, turn right no signal,
In crappy driving it's all up for grabs.
Little ironic though when you think about it;
Most of 'em end up driving cabs.

No moving roadblocks are now the norm,
In this the year 2010.
Instead of "you're drunk mick" or "watch it Bazza"
It's "************** off Raj, Su-mi or Chen"

I'm forced to now lament the days gone past,
A nicer place I must confess,
Of how driving just that little bit fast,
Has given way to political correctness.

But I do love our new citizenry,
Especially those whose cultures never wane,
After all their cultures must be superior,
Just go ask Bob Jane.

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by ltd

I love a multi country,
A land of toyota and kia,
Of muslims, turbans and africans,
Of the chinese and those from korea.

I love how when a sign says 60,
too often it's completely ignored.
That Truong or Raj can only do 35,
Oblivious to the tailgating Fords.

It's frustrating enough when you have to be somewhere,
Or when you even just need to go,
But these new aussies, bereft of motor skills
Do nothing but stop traffic flow.

Stop then turn left, turn right no signal,
In crappy driving it's all up for grabs.
Little ironic though when you think about it;
Most of 'em end up driving cabs.

No moving roadblocks are now the norm,
In this the year 2010.
Instead of "you're drunk mick" or "watch it Bazza"
It's "************** off Raj, Su-mi or Chen"

I'm forced to now lament the days gone past,
A nicer place I must confess,
Of how driving just that little bit fast,
Has given way to political correctness.

But I do love our new citizenry,
Especially those whose cultures never wane,
After all their cultures must be superior,
Just go ask Bob Jane.

god damn you must have been driving sloooooooooooooooooooooooooow to come up with that whilst driving - gold by the way!

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by ltd

I love the fact that we are multicultural; I love the plethora of Toyotas and the "New Australians" that previously rode a bicycle or farm animal before attempting to take on Australias roads. Always fun, always exciting. When I'm sitting in traffic going nowhere my new hobby is poetry. In the delays I have remodelled an Australian classic, here's just a sample for you;

I love a multi country,
A land of toyota and kia,
Of muslims, turbans and africans,
Of the chinese and those from korea.

I love how when a sign says 60,
too often it's completely ignored.
That Truong or Raj can only do 35,
Oblivious to the tailgating Fords.

It's frustrating enough when you have to be somewhere,
Or when you even just need to go,
But these new aussies, bereft of motor skills
Do nothing but stop traffic flow.

Stop then turn left, turn right no signal,
In crappy driving it's all up for grabs.
Little ironic though when you think about it;
Most of 'em end up driving cabs.

No moving roadblocks are now the norm,
In this the year 2010.
Instead of "you're drunk mick" or "watch it Bazza"
It's "************** off Raj, Su-mi or Chen"

I'm forced to now lament the days gone past,
A nicer place I must confess,
Of how driving just that little bit fast,
Has given way to political correctness.

But I do love our new citizenry,
Especially those whose cultures never wane,
After all their cultures must be superior,
Just go ask Bob Jane.

Just awesome, reps to you.

[dannyhilton]

Originally Posted by 84ltd

Very good post mate but unfortunetly driving in melbourne means any gap between cars no matter how small seems to be an invitation to merge. I generally like a couple of car lengths but you can guarantee that someone will fill it pretty quickly no matter what speed traffic is flowing at.

You're spot on man. And there lies the downside to the rule. If you leave a metre between you and the car in-front while driving 60km/h in Brisbane it seems that's enough of a gap to merge, so leaving two car spaces is an open house for idiots who merge without indicating. Unfortunately you can't control other drivers, you can however control the way you drive. I've got to the point where you don't trust any other driver on the road, you must assume they'll pull out in-front of you, cut you off and brake suddenly, and while it's a half-empty way to look at driving it's kept me safe so far (touch wood).

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by Outback

I hope the bike rider had insurance to pay for the damage he cause to the car he hit, see impatient riders and drivers like you should , either catch a bus or if your in so much of a hurry to get places , leave 30 mins earlier.
there is no law in how slow you want to travel.

Originally Posted by Yaw

100% agree with you outback, the bike rider was just not travelling a safe distance.

XE351 100% agree with you too. The bike rider should not have that kind of attitude. If he had of been riding with due car and attention and not an unsafe distance the person that was driving cautiously would not have had thier car damaged by the rider.

Actually your both wrong!

What part of the guy stopped on a SHARP LEFT HAND BLIND CORNER was not clear. The guy in the car effectively took away the quite large distance between the bike and himself by stopping where it was impossible to be seen.

My examples of how poor this guy was driving was more a venting of my frustration and nothing at all to do with the stuation the rider found himself in.

[El Venom]

I get stuck behind the slow drivers every week when I travel from morayfield, QLD and over the border ranges in to kyogle, woodenbong area of NSW. Most of the time it appears that they have no apparent reason for travelling so slow and when for alot of the drive on the hills I am only on a straight bit of road for only a couple of seconds at a time and most corners are blind, it deffinately gets your attention.

Yesterday though I got stuck behind someone who not only was travelling at half the speed limit on a main road 3 lanes wide in each dirrection, he was swerving all over the lane and spent more time looking out the side windows of his mazda 2 then looking out the front window. He even managed to rear end someone at that speed because he was looking side ways. He then drove off and tried to chase me because I gave him a honk of my horn 2 mins earlier because he was too busy looking out the side windows instead of the traffic lights which had turned green and the 3 cars infront of him moved off.

Why does the media and police seem soley dirrect all of there efforts on high speed? Yes, high speed is dangerous but so is slow speed and many decades of the police and government trying to scare the public to to speed as now created another threat to safetey. Why cant the gov make laws like someones comment one here about the 5% rule. Set a percentage 5- 15% and if your are out side of that percentage of the posted speed limit either above or below your fined and 3 strikes and your licence is suspended. 3 suspensions your licence is gone for good

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by xdc351

Actually your both wrong!

What part of the guy stopped on a SHARP LEFT HAND BLIND CORNER was not clear. The guy in the car effectively took away the quite large distance between the bike and himself by stopping where it was impossible to be seen.

My examples of how poor this guy was driving was more a venting of my frustration and nothing at all to do with the stuation the rider found himself in.

I guarantee that if I was given this as one of my recovieries on behalf of the car that stopped to clear the road from a perceived obstruction and then someone hit that stationary vehicle. I would make a 100% recovery from the bike rider.
Furthermore I have no doubt in my mind that should the liability be disputed a magistrate would come to the same conclusion I did and hold the bike rider 100% at fault.

Although you disagree with that drivers choice of speed and his perceived sense of duty to keep other road users safe by clearing the road, he did the right thing.
I am sure you would jump up and down if he drove at speeds beyond what he felt safe to do so and endangered other by doing that.

When there is a slower driver, just show a little paitence and pass when safe to do so.

[El Venom]

Originally Posted by Yaw

I guarantee that if I was given this as one of my recovieries on behalf of the car that stopped to clear the road from a perceived obstruction and then someone hit that stationary vehicle. I would make a 100% recovery from the bike rider.
Furthermore I have no doubt in my mind that should the liability be disputed a magistrate would come to the same conclusion I did and hold the bike rider 100% at fault.

Although you disagree with that drivers choice of speed and his perceived sense of duty to keep other road users safe by clearing the road, he did the right thing.
I am sure you would jump up and down if he drove at speeds beyond what he felt safe to do so and endangered other by doing that.

When there is a slower driver, just show a little paitence and pass when safe to do so.

Now I find that to be a load of BS. We can only guess to the exact details as we have only been toldsome of the story. For you to say that bike ride was at fault just seems like you dont like bike riders. Ok I agree that the drive of the car was doing a good thing but doing a good thing in a manner that put other members of the road using public at risk isnt instantly ingored because of good intentions.

Reality is the bike has not been proven to have been going faster the the posted limit , but stopping completely or driving way below the posted speed on a road where vision is limited can be potentionally as dangerous as speeding. If the driver of the car was unable to maintain a resonable speed and atleast move over or warn other vehicles of and obstruction, why should others be punished for someone elses failure to use total common sence

[Tom_Jane]

Originally Posted by xdc351

No joke here.... going on a drive today through the mountains. Stopped and had a great lunch and then we set off home.

Going through a very hilly and twisty section of road (80 zone) I'm passed by a guy on a bike. He was doing nothing wrong, but I don't think he saw the rolling roadblock up ahead. Easy to do on a bike with helmet etc.. No reason for this car to be so slow, but I'd estimate he was travelling an average of 30kmh thorough bends I was negotiating at 70-80 kmh (I had the joy of sitting behind him for 30km after the incident because he was also too oblivious to pull over).

Anyway the next corner is a sharp, blind, left hander going up a reasonble incline. Get around the corner to see the rolling road block has all but stopped in the middle of the road because there was a stick on the road (no joke it would have been the thicknes of a 20c piece) and the poor bloke on the bike has had to slam on his brakes hard, but unfortuntely got crossed up and ran into the back of this guy just hard enough to put the bike down at about 5 kmh.

Bike took a bit of punishment down the left hand side. Car a broken taillight.

Guy on the bike was furious, as you could imagine. By far the most pathetic thing I've ever seen someone stop on a main road for. It was like someone slamming on the brakes because there's a snail on the road. Just lucky no-one was hurt.

Stopping in the middle of traffic, my lord that's as bad as going through corners at 70-80km/h! How dare he!

[TUF_302]

The things that really annoy me are people who are obviously terrified, or very timmed about driver are still out there on the road, i once got stuck behind a lady doing 55kmph in a 100 zone, she look so scared behing the wheel when we got around her, she was braking up steep, but strait parts of the road, in some cases dropping back to about 35/40!, it was a scary thing to see thats for sure,
I also hate people who speed up when you try to overtake them, its like they feel like they are going to loose if you get in front of them! :

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by TUF_302

The things that really annoy me are people who are obviously terrified, or very timmed about driver are still out there on the road, i once got stuck behind a lady doing 55kmph in a 100 zone, she look so scared behing the wheel when we got around her, she was braking up steep, but strait parts of the road, in some cases dropping back to about 35/40!, it was a scary thing to see thats for sure,
I also hate people who speed up when you try to overtake them, its like they feel like they are going to loose if you get in front of them! :

These are exactly the sort of people who have no place on the road. They are an accident looking for somewhere to happen.

[bodes-sh]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

In these sorts of replies it is often a good idea to find the law and quote it, as I did for QLD law.

In QLD the law is quite liberal in its definition of too slow, its example of too slow is 20km/h in an 80 zone, not the 10-20km/h under the limit that most here consider too slow.

sure thing,

doesn't say actually highways, so it probably doesn't cover them, but this is for wa http://www.slp.wa.gov.au/statutes/re...c?OpenDocument

[Tray]

Originally Posted by Dezza

A couple of days ago I let a woman out from a servo off the side of Stud Rd. As we had a red light, I sat back to give her room, and my reward for showing a bit of courtesy was that she then chugged along at 50 in an 80 zone! Very frustrating in all honesty. 20-30kmh under is just too much!

i was in that same position the other day, i gave way to this old bag, turns onto the road, red turns to green and 200m up the road we hit a maximum speed of 40 in a 60 zone, another 5km up the road and she turns off and we revert back to 60. we had bumber to bumber with like 10 cars and this street is usually very quiet.

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by Tom_Jane

Stopping in the middle of traffic, my lord that's as bad as going through corners at 70-80km/h! How dare he!

Wow how insightful. Do you know what a troll is?

[TheZHLANE]

Originally Posted by bangm001

Yeah far out hey. My sister had a car accident about two years back because the lady in front stopped for a duck to cross the road. Hopeless.

funniest ******** ever

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Mr EL Venom

Now I find that to be a load of BS. We can only guess to the exact details as we have only been toldsome of the story. For you to say that bike ride was at fault just seems like you dont like bike riders. Ok I agree that the drive of the car was doing a good thing but doing a good thing in a manner that put other members of the road using public at risk isnt instantly ingored because of good intentions.

Reality is the bike has not been proven to have been going faster the the posted limit , but stopping completely or driving way below the posted speed on a road where vision is limited can be potentionally as dangerous as speeding. If the driver of the car was unable to maintain a resonable speed and atleast move over or warn other vehicles of and obstruction, why should others be punished for someone elses failure to use total common sence

Do us all a favor, just for a moment drop your ideas on what you think is correct and read the legislation.

The simple fact is the driver, who perceived the branch as a hazard, has a right to slow down to a safe speed in order to work out what the hazard is and what is the safe course of action. The perception of you or other motorists is completely irrelevant, it is his right.

I have also reviewed the Australian Road Rules and I have only found one reference to stopping in a lane, but this only applies to outside a built up areas (which this sounds like it was). Although stopping is illegal in this instance as it was near a bend, I bet slowing to assess an obstruction is reasonable defence of a traffic infringement.

Now for the big reality check, lets imagine no cars had stopped and that motorcycle blasted through the blind corner at 80 km/h, not allowing himself reaction time for unseen hazards (as proved by the fact he did not see a car in time to stop safely). Now, instead of a car, there is a fallen tree across the road and the motorcyclist hits that. Who is at fault then, the motorcyclist or the tree?

The simple fact is the motorcyclist was traveling too fast for the road conditions and the field of view that he had, no matter what the obstruction was, it is his fault.

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by Outback

I hope the bike rider had insurance to pay for the damage he cause to the car he hit, see impatient riders and drivers like you should , either catch a bus or if your in so much of a hurry to get places , leave 30 mins earlier.
there is no law in how slow you want to travel.

Am pretty sure 20km/h or more under the speed limit is dangerous driving isn't it???????

[xr_ash]

The one thing that I really hate with slow drivers is when they drive next to each other on a dual lane road, sitting 10 km under the speed limit and no-one can pass and do the actual speed limit!!! JUST MOVE IT OR MOVE OVER... It's so frustrating!

[xdc351]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Do us all a favor, just for a moment drop your ideas on what you think is correct and read the legislation.

The simple fact is the driver, who perceived the branch as a hazard, has a right to slow down to a safe speed in order to work out what the hazard is and what is the safe course of action. The perception of you or other motorists is completely irrelevant, it is his right.

I have also reviewed the Australian Road Rules and I have only found one reference to stopping in a lane, but this only applies to outside a built up areas (which this sounds like it was). Although stopping is illegal in this instance as it was near a bend, I bet slowing to assess an obstruction is reasonable defence of a traffic infringement.

Now for the big reality check, lets imagine no cars had stopped and that motorcycle blasted through the blind corner at 80 km/h, not allowing himself reaction time for unseen hazards (as proved by the fact he did not see a car in time to stop safely). Now, instead of a car, there is a fallen tree across the road and the motorcyclist hits that. Who is at fault then, the motorcyclist or the tree?

The simple fact is the motorcyclist was traveling too fast for the road conditions and the field of view that he had, no matter what the obstruction was, it is his fault.

If all your assumptions were correct then you would be also, however your assumtions are not correct.

There was no way the stopping at that location could have been considered safe or even legal (double white lines are there for a reason) especially for a stick. It was not an obstuction, as this implies that the road was blocked or in some way the car was unable to negotioate safely around or over the stick which is absolutely not true. The bike, also, was travelling no-where close to 80kmh. If you were on the bike or even in a car and could not see the way this guy was driving you would have hit him no question about it, it just meant that the combination of a helmet, thick foilage and cliffs lining the road and negotiating his way past me on the previous straight section before the bends that he was unable to see him. It is quite amazing how quickly an object travelling 1/3 your speed will find itself in front of you especially when that object comes to a complete stop in a location they cannot be seen.

Staggering to me how quick people are to judge. I started this thread to point out that driving slow is not nessesarily driving safe, but seriously some of these comments beggar belief.