Building a First Home

[stazza]

I just looked up clerestory windows, thats a great idea! As I did like the idea of a raked ceiling over the dining/living area.

If I was to consult an architect, would they advise me of these sorts of additions that I would never have known about or considered?

[tranquilized]

Definitely! An architect is worth their weight in gold really for all those little things that add so much to the livability, efficiency, practicality, and appearance of a house.

And there are a few ways you could look to employ an architect - from a few consultations from which you'll tell a draftsman what you want, through to fully designing and managing the build. The deal Zilo said he was getting sounded like great value but it sounded like he was probably doing an owner build?

[Falcon Coupe]

I've built architect designed homes that look fine on paper but simply don't work in the real world. When approached about the mistakes they may well wash their hands of it and say it's the builder problem. Yes it has happened more than once.

The volume builders do volume for a reason, value for money and modern designs to utilize space well on the smallish average block. I'd suggest going through display homes and find what you want then have it priced as displayed.

Save the money you would have payed an architect and put it towards an independent building inspector to check the house at all major payment stages.

Key words here are "first home".

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by stazza

I just looked up clerestory windows, thats a great idea! As I did like the idea of a raked ceiling over the dining/living area.

If I was to consult an architect, would they advise me of these sorts of additions that I would never have known about or considered?

As an architect I would sit with you and discuss your needs desires, budget and future goals. We would discuss how many rooms, what type of rooms, special needs, special desires, any particular furniture, equipment and or fixtures etc. We would look at your site and analyse its constraints and opportunities pick special features to focus on, views, existing trees, rocks? whatever. We would discuss environmental concerns, running costs, maintenance and of course budget, I would design fairly until your happy to proceed to the next phase, we would produce plans and elevations and 3D views of particular parts, the whole building or the kitchen or garage etc, whatever was determined important to help you understand what will be built.
we would get through the planning phases and help engage specialist engineers, and other consultants as necessary, for surveys and design and planning issues if necessary, ie say if you wanted a 2 storey place where the council may not allow/prefer it?
Depending on our engagement and your budget we might produce 30-40 A1 drawings detailing the structure, envelope, individuals rooms, construction details, joinery, even furniture if necessary, we would draw all windows and doors stairs, handrails, produce lighting schemes, landscaping and help select every material, paint finish, specialty coatings and colours, materials finishes and processes and write it up into a 500-800 page specification, we would run the tender process help wade through the responses and help you pick the best builder, not necessarily or only the cheapest but one with best track record, not about to go bankrupt and who has their A team on board, not the dodgy bros. then we will administer the contract, ensuring it is built as per the documents and you get what you pay for and what you wanted, not what someone on site decided was easiest or best.. We would finalise the contract inspect the works regularly and finally and execute practical completion and the defects liability period.
We would do all this for our previously agreed fee.I guarantee we would save you our fee over the design and contract, I knoew this because we have been in business for 40 years, and have many repeat clients. My job is to have your dream built, a builders job is to earn money from building your dream, they make more profit buy building efficiently and if necessary and all to often cutting corners.
Of course there are good and bad builders as there are great and crap architects, you need to form a relationship with both and have trust and belief in what they are doing. I find openess, direct and concise communication and detailed, watertight documents the best way to achieve this.
Im not saying use and architect or similar necesarily, but puting acase forward for a professional who has your interest to mind. There can be a scary sounding fee like 10 percent perhaps, but as mentioned for many at both ends of the market its money well spent for convenience, quality and service and investment.

JP

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I've built architect designed homes that look fine on paper but simply don't work in the real world. When approached about the mistakes they may well wash their hands of it and say it's the builder problem. Yes it has happened more than once.

The volume builders do volume for a reason, value for money and modern designs to utilize space well on the smallish average block. I'd suggest going through display homes and find what you want then have it priced as displayed.

Save the money you would have payed an architect and put it towards an independent building inspector to check the house at all major payment stages.

Key words here are "first home".

why cant a first home be a quality home?

sorry to hear about your problems, why didn't you follow up with the regulators if you were not happy and it was the architects fault, we have insurance for that sort of thing, take advantage of it...unless?

Justin

[SB076]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

why cant a first home be a quality home?

sorry to hear about your problems, why didn't you follow up with the regulators if you were not happy and it was the architects fault, we have insurance for that sort of thing, take advantage of it...unless?

Justin

$$$$ when I built my first home (9 years or so ago) I had to choose a volume builder (which I regretted as I chose the wrong one) But there was no way I could afford an Architecturally designed home. My next home maybe

Edit: It nots just the cost of the architect, its getting the complete customisation, which comes at a cost

[pottery beige]

****y cost of architect on first on home

would build a decent sized shed instead

[Darrengt]

We built our house ourselves, lots of work but not hard. its 300sqm and house cost $180 000. Definitely cheaper then getting a builder to do it. Let me know if you want info, we got the house from Sydney

[kaniSS]

Check under your land for any important service pipes. Make sure you have nothing under the site running right down the middle of your land.

dial before you dig.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Ok... going through this right now.. builder is to drop of the contract today actually.

Doing the early work was a stressful process for several reasons. Firstly, this is the first house I'm building, secondly I work bloody long hours and really didn't have the time to deal with the usual running around involved with doing it yourself.

I got my block in Sydney around March last year.

Saw the council about rules and regulations, asked specific questions about easments and other restrictions my block had. They were not very helpful to be honest.

The fact is, we had a POS town planner overseeing our DA. He was slow to react to ANYTHING, was really unreasonable with some of the finer details other town planners would have allowed and pretty much made the process HELL. His reputation is known to many local builders and architects and we drew the short straw.

In the end, I needed to threaten legal action to get a change of Town Planner. I waited too long, was trying to be nice to 'work with him, not against him'... wasted time.

We are talking months and months.

Town planner number 2. Promised the world, apologised heaps and delivered squat... tragged the chain, didn't return calls / emails the works.

We got our DA approved new years eve by a 3rd person. Again, with legal intervention of course...

I made some changes to the plans, in goes a section 96. Another 6 weeks for that.

The you have all the reports / inspections etc. Cost thousands and sometimes are not needed, but trying to get them removed from the condistions may cost more than the report so you just have to bite your tongue and hand over the cash.

If I were to do it again????

I would just swallow my pride and give the whole job to a volume builder. I really don't have the time, knowledge or experience for such a project and to be honest I would have been sending this reply from my new home had I did that.

If you are going to try and do it yourself get people on board that are experts to advise and help you. The fart arsing you waste trying to save a buck to DIY is simply a false economy.

Don't be too worried about finding a handful of bad reviews on a builder. People are quick to complain and slow to praise. If a company has been around for a while and you have been told by several happy customers they were ok to deal with then go with them.

I guess the only benefit we have had from the building delay was the extra money we saved while working and not building - we have been able to add another 100k to our budget which will go to nicer fittings and finishes and some alterations that we thought we couldn't afford when we first looked into building.

Steep learning curve thats for sure!

I do wish you the best of luck. The process can be pain or smooth sailing - it all depends on the people you work with to get the job done.

[351buzz]

gday stazza.
I employed an architect to design my first home about 5 yrs ago.
15-20k to design the biggest asset you'll probably ever own was a no brainer for me.

Because I'm not rich, (and also single, no kids like yourself) the architect and myself designed my home to be built in 2 stages.
stage 1 is my house at the moment and for the forseeable future.
stage 2 will only go ahead if I hook-up, kids, ect, and will be 2 extra bedrooms, bathroom, new entry, other stuff.
because it was designed from the start with this in mind, each stage looks like a fully finished house. It doesn't look like half a house at the moment, and wont look like a house with a new extention if stage2 ever happens.
doing it this way saved me the expense of coughing up for a 3 bedroom house when I am single and didn't need the extra empty rooms. I could then afford to spec out my house to the level of luxury I wanted.

people get pretty passionate about the whole "architect" thing, love 'em or hate 'em it seems everyone has an opinion. Probably because everyones prioritys or motivation for building a house is different, like for instance, live there forever or first step on the property market, do you want design or just getting off the rental market, family home or party pad, are you in to $$houses$$ or disposable income for cars ect.
once you know this sort of stuff it'll become clearer on which way you should go, if you don't already know.

buildings don't have to depreciate. helps if your architect is famous and dead though I will admit.. even if they do depreciate they don't have to sink like a brick.

[351buzz]

totally agree with yellow festiva about councils, they make you want to kill.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Stazza_Brendan

Really think out the locations of your lights and power points.
We put a power point in the hallway. Easier to vacuum 4 rooms without unplugging all the time.
Also put one right at the end of the gargage beside the roller door. I can have the gerni out on the driveway without using an extension cord.

Further to this good advice.

I have 8 x double points in the garage alone and 5 x doubles on the outside walls around the house.
2 x 6 points in the office.
3 x doubles in each bedroom
6 x doubles around the kitchen bench.
4 x doubles in the living rooms.
TV connections for all rooms apart from the bathrooms and laundry and 2 connections in the garage and 1 x connection in the back BBQ area plus speakers wired through for outside and for the ceiling in the main TV room.
A number of phone connections, though most of the gear runs off WiFi and 5 phones run off the base including a waterproof phone for the pool.
You can never have too many outlets, have all the wiring done whether you plan to use it or not, it’s cheap and much easier than adding it later.

[MercurySilver]

when we first was going to build we had a design in mind
we went to a local architect
we were charged $1000 for him to draw our design on a piece of grid A4 paper
it took him about 20 mins we then chatted for about 40

great value
not

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

when we first was going to build we had a design in mind
we went to a local architect
we were charged $1000 for him to draw our design on a piece of grid A4 paper
it took him about 20 mins we then chatted for about 40

great value
not

What do you expect for 1000 dollars?
You got a design! that came from many years of study, and practice and experience then advertising, premises to work out of and insurances, wages, etc. That is not free we don't give design away, you pay for it and I suggest at 1K you got it cheap, doesnt matter that you may not have used the design you were provided with a service with an outcome. the architect provided you with intellectual property, supported by accredited systems, legal recourse and an act of parliament which governs how the architect acts! This is not cheap. What you didn't get, as you didn't pay for it, was all the rest the profession can offer, that many in this thread who have actually used the complete services are vouching for. That may hev been refinement of design, documentation, tender, on site management in a drive for quality in design and construction.
Architects will always offer fee proposals if asked, ask first and don't be stung by a bill you cant afford.
Did you see them do the drawing?

JP

[351buzz]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

when we first was going to build we had a design in mind
we went to a local architect
we were charged $1000 for him to draw our design on a piece of grid A4 paper
it took him about 20 mins we then chatted for about 40

great value
not

yeah, I had to pay for my conceptual drawings too. why can't they do that for free.

1k on a 200k build is only 0.5% of build cost, I'd happily pay that for it to just look right. others wouldn't, that's fine.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

when we first was going to build we had a design in mind
we went to a local architect
we were charged $1000 for him to draw our design on a piece of grid A4 paper
it took him about 20 mins we then chatted for about 40

great value
not

I've been talking to a number of architects, and asked all of them for a sample of what they recommend for my site.

2 of them actually went to site...(a location that entailed a boat ride)
.and they all did it without charging me a cent.

I was presented with concept plans, site layout, solar orientation and a basic building envelope and floor plan as well as cost per sq metre estimate.

All on A3 colour presentation....absolutely free.

So I think your $1k for 20 minutes sounds 'unusual".

[ebzery]

I had a shed house built a couple of years ago the builder moved doorways changed sizes of the roller doors to smaller the wife can't park in the garage anymore the bathroom door is in the wrong spot as it was suppose to open onto the vanity but he changed sides due to strength but plumbing had already been done.
Made a good building not so good stick to your guns make shore they don't change things because they stuffed up.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

why cant a first home be a quality home?

sorry to hear about your problems, why didn't you follow up with the regulators if you were not happy and it was the architects fault, we have insurance for that sort of thing, take advantage of it...unless?

Justin

A first home can easily be a quality home. Why does money need to paid to an Architect for one?
Plenty of builders with great plans drawn up and ready to go.

If spending unnecessary money on a first home gives you the illusion of quality then by all means. Do so.

[UberKnee]

While there are some cowboys out there, generally you dont need to be overly worried about every single little thing with the builder, whose not out to screw you. If after the frame is up and you decide to make a few changes remember that will cost more. And this is a very minor thing, no one ever thinks about it, but I do alot of fit offs and at the planning stage think of where a towel rail will go in a bathroom/ensuite. You'd be surprised how often the only available space is next to the toilet so you end up your towel rail above your toilet roll holder.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

A first home can easily be a quality home. Why does money need to paid to an Architect for one?
Plenty of builders with great plans drawn up and ready to go.

If spending unnecessary money on a first home gives you the illusion of quality then by all means. Do so.

I don't go to target to buy my suits and shirts, None of my cars have ever remained standard, I dine at fine restaurants not at Mcdonalds, and I travel to exotic locations not the gold coast or Bali.
If you think an off the shelf 'plan' house plonked onto your site could be the best quality then an architect or designer will never be for you, fair enough I'm not saying everyone should use one. But if you do have an eye for design, and the quality that only design can provide then perhaps employing an designer, after suitable research is the right thing to do. A standard one size fits all middle ground spec home plan has nothing on a purpose designed, bespoke tailored house.
The community has an odd idea about how architects work, believing firstly all are expensive to engage, we are wasteful with clients money and a frivolous luxury. mostly unfounded. An architect designed building does not get built without client approval sign-off and payment, we design to briefs and client need rarely do we get to make it all up from scratch, we provide what the client wants. Not all are as good as others, like not all tailors, chefs or mechanics are. that's why research and 'interviewing' potential architects is important.
Ill say it again, I guarantee to save the home builder my fee in designing and managing the project when compared to an off the shelf plan. The house wont look like a spec home, it wont work like a spec home and it certainly wont have the running costs and the maintenance costs associated with the common spec home. It will look modern and of its time, will suit the owner as well as any home can and it will be sustainable and less wasteful. It will stand apart and it shouldn't cost any more than a similar 'builder' derived quality home.

JP

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

While there are some cowboys out there, generally you dont need to be overly worried about every single little thing with the builder, whose not out to screw you. If after the frame is up and you decide to make a few changes remember that will cost more. And this is a very minor thing, no one ever thinks about it, but I do alot of fit offs and at the planning stage think of where a towel rail will go in a bathroom/ensuite. You'd be surprised how often the only available space is next to the toilet so you end up your towel rail above your toilet roll holder.

This is very true.

I'm the last sibling to build in my family and have sat back and watched all the things I would have changed / done differently.

The towel rail is a classic example, my sister has just finished a duplex and the only place to hang a towel is above the bath, at the opposite edge of the room compared to where the shower is.

Same with positioning toilets that have no wall to hang the roll off... I can't stand it when you need to twist your body near 180 degrees because the dunny roll is on the same wall your back is facing.

Mistakes with fridge recess - putting a 1000 wall to close in a kitchen area, on the other side of the wall is the hole for the fridge - what happens when you put a 750-800mm deep fridge with barn doors against a 1000mm wall? Can't open the door more than 90 degrees, thats what!

Microwaves put below bench tops - something you use often should be easier to access...

Power points in bedrooms right where the bed head / bed legs will stand.

BIR's in a 2700 high room that have sliding doors that only go 2200 - yet there is a shelf at 2200 to 'use'... with a 200mm gap to carefully angle whatever you need to store on that shelf.

Water tanks that cover windows, shower heads in the wrong side of the recess, toilets so close to the wall the seat won't stay up, undersized baths installed in the middle of a wall so that the 350mm on each side becomes dead space....

Banks of bloody 6 switches that control half the house - oh man thats a pet hate of mine!

Etc etc etc etc... as I said - a very steep learning curve.

[Dash_XR]

Why go to so much trouble/cost with your first house? Regardless of how much you spend on fancy materials and architects it's still going to look small and dated by the time you retire. I'd rather put all the money/effort into the last one to enjoy in retirement not the first one that will end up a rental, unless it's going to be your one and only property?

Not having a go just my 2c.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

Why go to so much trouble/cost with your first house? Regardless of how much you spend on fancy materials and architects it's still going to look small and dated by the time you retire. I'd rather put all the money/effort into the last one to enjoy in retirement not the first one that will end up a rental, unless it's going to be your one and only property?

Not having a go just my 2c.

I'm going to a lot of trouble and effort with my first home as I hope it is the last 'family' home I build.

Certainly isn't small at 50+ squares and the time I have spent changing little things here and there to enhance the inside and outside will be well worth it.

Oh, and I'll add that a good interior designer will work wonders - we took our plans to one and the seemingly 'simple' action of moving a few walls / doors, dropping a floor level and adding some artistic flair has worked wonders. It now has the 'wow' factor I was looking for.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

This is very true.

I'm the last sibling to build in my family and have sat back and watched all the things I would have changed / done differently.

The towel rail is a classic example, my sister has just finished a duplex and the only place to hang a towel is above the bath, at the opposite edge of the room compared to where the shower is.

Same with positioning toilets that have no wall to hang the roll off... I can't stand it when you need to twist your body near 180 degrees because the dunny roll is on the same wall your back is facing.

Mistakes with fridge recess - putting a 1000 wall to close in a kitchen area, on the other side of the wall is the hole for the fridge - what happens when you put a 750-800mm deep fridge with barn doors against a 1000mm wall? Can't open the door more than 90 degrees, thats what!

Microwaves put below bench tops - something you use often should be easier to access...

Power points in bedrooms right where the bed head / bed legs will stand.

BIR's in a 2700 high room that have sliding doors that only go 2200 - yet there is a shelf at 2200 to 'use'... with a 200mm gap to carefully angle whatever you need to store on that shelf.

Water tanks that cover windows, shower heads in the wrong side of the recess, toilets so close to the wall the seat won't stay up, undersized baths installed in the middle of a wall so that the 350mm on each side becomes dead space....

Banks of bloody 6 switches that control half the house - oh man thats a pet hate of mine!

Etc etc etc etc... as I said - a very steep learning curve.

Its all the little things that make a difference, when building you definitely need to sit back and think of as many little issues that could arise in day to day living.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I'm going to a lot of trouble and effort with my first home as I hope it is the last 'family' home I build.

Certainly isn't small at 50+ squares and the time I have spent changing little things here and there to enhance the inside and outside will be well worth it.

Oh, and I'll add that a good interior designer will work wonders - we took our plans to one and the seemingly 'simple' action of moving a few walls / doors, dropping a floor level and adding some artistic flair has worked wonders. It now has the 'wow' factor I was looking for.

Yeah nothing wrong with that.

[ebxr8240]

Whatever you do "stay with in budget" it's easy to go over . Interest rates are only going to go up.. We've in our house 32 years . Purchase price of land .. Believe it ?? $22,000 and $42,000 to build.. Interest rates went up to 18% .. In the mid 80's ..
Having talked the negatives houses in my area are $480 to $800k ..

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by zilo

I've been talking to a number of architects, and asked all of them for a sample of what they recommend for my site.

2 of them actually went to site...(a location that entailed a boat ride)
.and they all did it without charging me a cent.

I was presented with concept plans, site layout, solar orientation and a basic building envelope and floor plan as well as cost per sq metre estimate.

All on A3 colour presentation....absolutely free.

So I think your $1k for 20 minutes sounds 'unusual".

Yo slightly deluded if you think yo that chummy and they did it for free

Just a little fat in that $30k invoice

yo

[351buzz]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

Yo slightly deluded if you think yo that chummy and they did it for free

Just a little fat in that $30k invoice

yo

excellent point bud.

apart from the fact that zilo mentions about 10 times in the one post that there were numerous arch firms, of which none sent in bills. yo.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by 351buzz

excellent point bud.

apart from the fact that zilo mentions about 10 times in the one post that there were numerous arch firms, of which none sent in bills. yo.

i didnt miss nothing yo