Vfacts November 2018

[jpd80]

Holden is in the fight of its life, it's basically discounting everything to pump prime sales
and get its huge inventory of unsold stock down. Be under no illusion that Commodore is
being offered at generous prices with lots of pre-registered sales and has been that way
for most of this year.. That's not to denigrate what Holden is trying to do, just the reality
of the situation.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Vehicle..................4x4..............4x2..... ....TOTAL
Hilux 2017.............3,174...........929..........4,10 3
Hilux 2018.............3,669.........1,002.........4,671

Ranger 2017..........3,153...........423..........3,576
Ranger 2018..........3,023...........446..........3,469

I think it's obvious that Hilux had better discounts on it's range than Ranger, especially the 4x4s
as discussed last month and that Ranger Raptor sales are basically being folded into Ford's 4x4 sales,
What we can't see from this is the richer product mix that Ranger is gaining apart from knowing that
roughly 400 of this year's sales are RRs +$10K dearer than Wildtraks - did they replace them or other XLT sales?
We probably won't ever know....either way, I bet Ford is pleased with the result.

Whats obvious about it?

Earlier on you said Hilux was powering ahead on discounted 4x2 tradies yet the figures show only 73 more than the same month last year.
Now you're saying its obvious that its discounted 4x4 thats leading the Hilux charge and whilst its true that the 4x4 version is breaking records, why is it that its only due to discounts and not that people just prefer the Hilux.

If the shoe was on the other foot it would be 'Ranger is just that good.'

Ford offered 5yrs of free servicing to the value of $2600 on a recently refreshed model yet sold 130 uits less than last year even with the highly anticipated Raptor appearing in driveways.

Somethings obvious, but it doesnt involve Hilux.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Whats obvious about it?

Earlier on you said Hilux was powering ahead on 4x2 tradies yet the figures show only 73 more than the same time last year.

Toyota does the 4x2 tradie ute specials this time of the year, that's why sales are similar
to last year and also why Ford can't and never will get near Toyota's 4x2 sales.

Now you're saying its obvious that its discounted 4x4 thats leading the Hilux charge and whilst its true that the 4x4 version is breaking records, why is it that its only due to discounts and not that people just prefer the Hilux.

I think it's both, people prefer Hilux because it better priced with more discount than Ranger.

If the shoe was on the other foot it would be 'Ranger is just that good.'

Ford offered 5yrs of free servicing to the value of $2600 on a recently refreshed model yet sold 130 uits less than last year even with the highly anticipated Raptor appearing in driveways.

Higher priced even with free five year servicing?
As i said, the discounts on 4x4 Hilux last month were greater than the much
higher priced 4x4 Rangers, Toyota wanted more and got it by discounting.

The amount of 4x4 Ford sold is reasonably close to 2017's number but the product mix
was definitely richer, so here's a question for you, which would a manufacturer prefer,
selling more discounted models or selling slightly less at a much higher average price?

Obviously Toyota will do great deals on Hilux to keep sales numbers well ahead of Ranger
where Ford clearly has incentives built into it pricing and then some.

I'm done.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The amount of 4x4 Ford sold is reasonably close to 2017's number but the product mix
was definitely richer, so here's a question for you, which would a manufacturer prefer,
selling more discounted models or selling slightly less at a much higher average price?

For 6 months weve been told that Ranger sales were down because the new model was coming, the new model arrived, Ford offered 5yrs of free servicing and people decided to buy a Hilux instead because they got a better deal..ok

When you're selling 4 times as many cars in general, you're products are top of their segments and you have the number 1 seller in the country, i dont think you'd care what trim level your opposition moves more of in one segment.

So how long do you think Toyota will likely survive in Australia selling tradie specials and discounted 4x4 Hilux's..

Surely they're on borrowed time.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

When you're selling 4 times as many cars in general, you're products are top of their segments and you have the number 1 seller in the country, i dont think you'd care what trim level your opposition moves more of in one segment.

Are you sure about that?
In the last six months, I have never seen Ranger priced less than a comparable Hilux,
even with the five year free service that you like to harp on.

Also,

For 6 months weve been told that Ranger sales were down because the new model was coming,

As explained by others, up until August there was barely 25 sales between 4x4 Hilux and 4x4 Ranger..
The two were neck and neck until buyers learned that a refreshed model was coming in the next couple of months...


Now enough, I'm done.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Now enough, I'm done.

....

[jpd80]

One last example of Toyota discounting
Toyota 4x4 2.8 TD SR5 crew cab Auto...$52,990 drive away
Ranger 4x4 3.2 TD XLT crew Cab Auto....$60,691 drive away... 5 year free servicing

i dont think you'd care what trim level your opposition moves more of in one segment.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Whats obvious about it?

Earlier on you said Hilux was powering ahead on discounted 4x2 tradies yet the figures show only 73 more than the same month last year.
Now you're saying its obvious that its discounted 4x4 thats leading the Hilux charge and whilst its true that the 4x4 version is breaking records, why is it that its only due to discounts and not that people just prefer the Hilux.

If the shoe was on the other foot it would be 'Ranger is just that good.'

Ford offered 5yrs of free servicing to the value of $2600 on a recently refreshed model yet sold 130 uits less than last year even with the highly anticipated Raptor appearing in driveways.

Somethings obvious, but it doesnt involve Hilux.

“Oh What a Feeling”!

[vztrt]

It's always funny reading people argue over australian sales for a global model. Obviously ranger is done as the figures aren't good enough in Australia....time to shut down operations.

[Sprintey]

Can any of the lessened Ranger sales be put down to housing market turning, tradies seeing less work? Around here they are still going gangbusters.

Also, are there not CGT or tax-claim changes coming the way of dual cab utes in the next 18 months?

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Focus is due for an upgrade and Escape hasn't improved much since its name change from Kuga.

anybody know how many they sold of these?

Sales have improved slightly since the rename but it's still only averaging around 400 / month during the last year.

Originally Posted by hackney

All they have to do is get the data for various variants.How simple is that? No brainer really.How could you get it wrong,especially if you know customers buying preferences?

How about you settle down a little?

[hackney]

Originally Posted by russellw

Sales have improved slightly since the rename but it's still only averaging around 400 / month during the last year

Equinox did a paltry 376.Escape was even less.They carry on about how bad Holden are doing,but most of Ford’s range is pitiful.Ranger being the standout selling vehicle.(Holden only sold 394 units less than Ford.)

[russellw]

Originally Posted by hackney

Equinox did a paltry 376.Escape was even less.They carry on about how bad Holden are doing,but most of Ford’s range is pitiful.Ranger being the standout selling vehicle.(Holden only sold 394 units less than Ford.)

Who are "they"?

The reality is that Holden are doing poorly because the Commodore carried the rest of the range. Holden sales are down 27.6% to the end of October which represents almost 20,000 less sales of which 11,654 were Commodore sales.

Ranger and Mustang are both stand-outs for the Ford range, either leading or 2nd in their respective segments. The rest of the range is struggling but then so are the rest of the Holden range - and if you think selling only 394 less cars than Ford is a good thing then perhaps you need to revisit the same month last year where Holden outsold Ford by 2,000+ or perhaps go and seek solace with your GM loving friends at www.howgayismypretendcommodore.com

Russ

[hackney]

Originally Posted by russellw

Who are "they"?

The reality is that Holden are doing poorly because the Commodore carried the rest of the range. Holden sales are down 27.6% to the end of October which represents almost 20,000 less sales of which 11,654 were Commodore sales.

Ranger and Mustang are both stand-outs for the Ford range, either leading or 2nd in their respective segments. The rest of the range is struggling but then so are the rest of the Holden range - and if you think selling only 394 less cars than Ford is a good thing then perhaps you need to revisit the same month last year where Holden outsold Ford by 2,000+ or perhaps go and seek solace with your GM loving friends at www.howgayismypretendcommodore.com

Russ

Where did you get “GM” loving friends from? Last time I looked,I have not owned a Holden since 1974.Just pointing out a few facts.You only have to go onto Car advice & motoring.com.au to see the resentment to the brand(unfounded as far as I am concerned)That is who “they”are.I am well aware the rest of the Holden range is struggling,as many other people are.Mustang(as far as I am concerned it is a “niche” vehicle.Hardly your average Mr & Mrs vehicle.)Happy now? Cheers

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

One last example of Toyota discounting
Toyota 4x4 2.8 TD SR5 crew cab Auto...$52,990 drive away
Ranger 4x4 3.2 TD XLT crew Cab Auto....$60,691 drive away... 5 year free servicing

So What, thats one example, do you know what each of those examples costs to bring to market, then we can see what the real picture is, with proof please.

Unless you can break down the Hilux numbers into indivudual model sales for all you know they may have sold 3000 Ruggeds and only a few SR5's.

But that probably doesnt fit the narrative im guessing, im sure its actually 3500 $52,990 specials...am i doing this right.

Funny how nothing negative is being said about Ranger other than quoting previous reasoning for lower than average sales in previous months and highlighting sales numbers at present, yet all you do is run down Hilux in any way you can.

[Falcon SXR8]

Hilux sells well because it has a good reputation and it's actually a pretty good vehicle these days it's not a conspiracy against Ford. I don't know why we need excuses for the ranger all the time, it sells well, just doesn't quite match the hilux. Me I wouldn't buy either of them, I would buy an isuzu myself because I see it as the most reliable of the lot at the moment. I don't need my preferred vehicle to outsell the others to feel good. So I don't understand why we need to break stuff down until we get the outcome that we prefer.

Was the same with the falcon, every month there was some reason why it's numbers were poor and it would pick up next month.................

My opinion anyway

[nstg8a]

I was wandering the ford dealer the other day checking out some mustangs when I spotted a row of escape st lines's, actually quite nice looking units I thought. Really nice interiors too.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by vztrt

It's always funny reading people argue over australian sales for a global model. Obviously ranger is done as the figures aren't good enough in Australia....time to shut down operations.

Yeah we should just forget all about the 180 odd countries Ranger is sold in, and goes on sale in North America this month.

Originally Posted by hackney

Equinox did a paltry 376.Escape was even less.They carry on about how bad Holden are doing,but most of Ford’s range is pitiful.Ranger being the standout selling vehicle.(Holden only sold 394 units less than Ford.)

Just forget the part where the Equinox is a brand new car, and the Escape is about 1 year away from replacement. Is automotive terms the Escape is a dinosaur that needs replacement badly. It's one area Ford needs a big improvement in, along with the Ecosport. 2 vital segments they are uncompetitive in. New Focus is on sale this month too which will help.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yeah we should just forget all about the 180 odd countries Ranger is sold in, and goes on sale in North America this month.



Just forget the part where the Equinox is a brand new car, and the Escape is about 1 year away from replacement. Is automotive terms the Escape is a dinosaur that needs replacement badly. It's one area Ford needs a big improvement in, along with the Ecosport. 2 vital segments they are uncompetitive in. New Focus is on sale this month too which will help.

Tottaly agree,but Escape should be doing far better than it is doing,after all it is better in most respects than Equinox.In the UK it is @ #7,but entirely different market.Ecosport needs to be dropped.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by hackney

Tottaly agree,but Escape should be doing far better than it is doing,after all it is better in most respects than Equinox.In the UK it is @ #7,but entirely different market.Ecosport needs to be dropped.

2018 was a tough year for Ford all over as it signalled when new products were
supposed to arrive but were pushed back by former CEO Mark Fields, it's still
a long wait to next September...I just hope they bring in Focus Active in the
meantime..

[jpd80]

Escape is basically a ten year old refreshed Kuga, and you think
it should do better than a new Equinox?

That a bit brutal on Equinox.....

[hackney]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Escape is basically a ten year old refreshed Kuga, and you think
it should do better than a new Equinox?

That a bit brutal on Equinox.....

Probably,still think Kuga is superior.Cracking engine.Would just like to see Equinox sell for Holden’s sake.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by jpd80

2018 was a tough year for Ford all over as it signalled when new products were
supposed to arrive but were pushed back by former CEO Mark Fields, it's still
a long wait to next September...I just hope they bring in Focus Active in the
meantime..

Focus Active has been confirmed.

I can't see Focus selling in big numbers. Ford did not push the LZ and I can't see them doing much more with the new model. Their wholesale buy price is too high which makes it hard to compete in the $20k segment.

I am very surprised they don't push Ranger single cabs harder when you look at the bigger picture. They are probably missing out on 500 sales a month there, which affects 4x4 as well with small / medium fleets sticking to one brand. They would have to go back to a petrol motor to make it viable.

Hilux sells well off its history. Its not the better car. I've driven both multiple times and the Ranger is far more comfortable and better equipped.

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Hilux sells well off its history. Its not the better car. I've driven both multiple times and the Ranger is far more comfortable and better equipped.

Maybe if ford had built a better vehicle in the past, and not done so many people over with bad warranty and after sale service they would be selling more vehicles because of there " history "

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Focus Active has been confirmed.

I can't see Focus selling in big numbers. Ford did not push the LZ and I can't see them doing much more with the new model. Their wholesale buy price is too high which makes it hard to compete in the $20k segment.

It's a shame because the Focus Active looks like the kind of vehicle that could
change how people see Ford and help to lift some of the stigma that surrounds the
older focus and that bloody Powershift fiasco

I am very surprised they don't push Ranger single cabs harder when you look at the bigger picture. They are probably missing out on 500 sales a month there, which affects 4x4 as well with small / medium fleets sticking to one brand. They would have to go back to a petrol motor to make it viable.

Not sure teh 2.5 petrol Ranger is still made in Thailand or South America, maybe Brazil?
A 2.0 Ecoboost base engine and 6AT in Ranger (Falcon mule project) would have been cool.

Hilux sells well off its history. Its not the better car. I've driven both multiple times and the Ranger is far more comfortable and better equipped.

I wasn't hacking on Hilux in last night's posts, simply pointing out that Toyota
can easily go under Ranger's price by $7,000 or $8,000 when the mood suits them
beyond that, I really don't have anything bad to say about Hilux.

[Dr Smith]

We have to also remember that globally Ford and GM are not in expansionist moods right now.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

We have to also remember that globally Ford and GM are not in expansionist moods right now.

So true Doc, both are sticking close to what makes money, combine last month's sales
of Ranger, Everest, Mustang and it's obvious that Ford is making good money on at least 80%
of its total monthly sales in Aus, those vehicles have comparatively low discounts and sell
mostly at prices nearly double or triple that of a Focus or Escape



having said that, there's still a place globally for Focus, especially with
the Germans making them, better quality and nicer material feel.

[Wretched]

Toyota have built a mighty empire on reputation hence why very little change happens with their naming of the cars.
While it is debatable how really "good" these cars are the constant feedback and ongoing repeat sales reflect that history.

I believe that in every category they have the same car in currently, Ford have a better vehicle.
In saying that though, Toyota is really bringing in some real tangible customer service initiatives, they're wanting to focus their efforts on it.

Personally though after working with Toyota, I'd never buy one of their cars. Toxic corporate culture.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

I am very surprised they don't push Ranger single cabs harder when you look at the bigger picture. They are probably missing out on 500 sales a month there, which affects 4x4 as well with small / medium fleets sticking to one brand. They would have to go back to a petrol motor to make it viable.

Hilux sells well off its history. Its not the better car. I've driven both multiple times and the Ranger is far more comfortable and better equipped.

They just don't want to play in that low profit area. Not when they can make good money on XLT's and Wildtraks. They will let Toyota have those low money base model 4x2 sales. They tried it and just could not get the base price low enough to compete with the Workmate. They would rather not compete than cut the price so badly they lose money. Toyota are more prepared to do that. Ford has moved away from that strategy.

Whickman was quoted as saying they won't chase no 1 at the expense of profits. That strategy hasn't changed with the new president.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They will let Toyota have those low money base model 4x2 sales.
Toyota are more prepared to do that. Ford has moved away from that strategy.

The trouble is; If a Customer has to go to Toyota to get a Workshop/Parts chaser Ute. Chances are the Salesman will whiles he's "got him" be able to turn the customer entire Fleet over to being ALL Toyota..

Ford would be losing a fair few Fleet sales by not having a POVO pack 4x2 Ute. In My opinion..