NBN so far, whats your experience?

[ronwest]

We are around 3 kms from the exchange so our adsl was pretty ordinary.

NBN for our area was announced as HFC which I was disappointed about.

However 10 months in, 50/20 plan, always sits at a very stable 48/19.

I'm a happy camper (even though I'd still prefer FTTH)

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Telstra switched us over to NBN from ADSL 3 weeks ago. Now 3 weeks without internet...

Sigh.

well, that is a surprise

when we changed over I contacted DODO, they booked NBN to hook up the fibre to the room where the modem was, all happened on exactly the day they said it would, as the tech walked out of the house the delivery man delivered the DODO modem, hooked it up and was running in 20 minutes and been running perfectly ever since

I live in a regional city in Victoria

[devilcv8]

I went from ADSL2 connecting at 11/1 to a 50/20 on FTTN. I’m the last house on the cable run connected to the node and have a maximum attainable rate of 104/42 according to my modem. Speedtest via wifi is a solid 46.9/18.2 with pings of 10ms on my iPad. (Have had a couple of tests to 48 down)
Yes I’m with Telstra. Cutover day went so smooth my wife didn’t even know anything happened. I was travelling so couldn’t be home for the cutover. Been over 2 years now and haven’t had an issue.
At work we have Optus services and the stability of the FTTP 100/40 is anything but good. Testing via wifi using the same iPad I get speeds with a best down of 35 and uploads varying to high 20s. Optus tell me that is normal, but then again I am used to Optus lies.

[wodahs]

NBN ???
im 30ks from perths cbd east in huntingdale
all suburbs around huntingdale has NBN but huntingdale keeps getting bumped

Planned to be available from
Jan-Jun 2020*
Note: Some premises may require more work before they are ready to connect.

im aprox 6ks from the local exchange but cant even get adsl2 as all ports are still in use and none currently available ~ no that that would help as ive owned the house for 10 years and for some reason before that the line in was dug up , so early last year when we were to first have NBN installed I layed condute to have it to the house but am not paying twice (once for a copper line then again for nbn cable)
so I still run crappy (optus supplied) vivid wireless where on a good day im lucky to get a 1.2 Mbps down load
ah good times
thanks Mr Turnbull

[roddy1960]

Apparently my area has availability now . I'm a Telstra customer and have a fairly good bundled package with ADSL , Wireless via USB , home phone and mobile plan .
To be honest my Internet speeds are okay for my uses but like most things , once you switch over to something else you kick yourself for not doing it sooner . Might look at it pretty soon perhaps .

[Maka]

We've just recieved a new uprated whitebox (gateway) & so far so good, fingers crossed its reliable & trouble free.

cheers, Maka

[stefcio007]

I'll let you know in 2020 when it arrives and if it makes sense over 5G speed/cost wise.

I've been on cable since 2004 and a few years ago Optus even offered a speed pack that would increase you download speed to 100Mbps.

I guess the upside to my area being in the planning stage is that now we've been upgraded to planned FTTC instead of just HFC which is what Optus already offered us in 2004, explains why our speeds have been excellent compared to what everyone else had at the time.

Unfortunately because the area is getting NBN in 2020 most telcos are putting people on the cable network so it's abysmally slow now. We used to get consistent 20-30Mbps but now it can get as low 3Mbps.

Unless the back end is upgraded by the time NBN is available then 4G/5G will be a no brainer at that point.

[sgt_doofey]

Don't worry, the NBN won't need to upgrade the back end. You'll be getting FTTC. That means you'll have fibre running past your house.
5G will never match the cost/data that NBN will be able to provide. All the telcos rolling it out will need to get back their return on investment, so you'll never see large amounts of data on plans, just like we do now with 4G.

As for me, in my old house, we were a couple hundred metres from the node. On a 50/10 plan we got around 44/8. I thought that wasn't too bad for the crap copper. We're now renting and I think we're a fair way from the node. Wouldn't actually know which one we're connected to. We get 27/6 on the same 50/10 plan here. Stupid FTTN and the crap copper in the ground.
Looking forward to building our new house soonish that is in a brand new greenfield estate with FTTP rolled out ready to connect up to new houses

FTTP is the only thing that should have ever been rolled out for this project. They should have stuck to that and future-proofed everyone's telecommunication needs.

The current record of throughput for fibre is 159Tb/s over a distance of 1045kms. https://phys.org/news/2018-04-fiber-transmission.html

[Maka]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

FTTP is the only thing that should have ever been rolled out for this project. They should have stuck to that and future-proofed everyone's telecommunication needs.

cheers, Maka

[Bossxr8]

My new house which should start building in Feb is FTTP. But contracts refer to an opticomm connection. Anyone know what the deal is with that?

I see iinet and TPG can provide services, but Telstra don't offer it and for some reason they don't provide any service to my new estate.

[black13]

Just this week connected to nbn via vodafone. I have been with them for a long time now with mobile fone & never had issues with them. Previously had a digital connection with nuskope with consistent download speed of 25-30 & up 0-5, with only the odd dropout. Voda has been cosistent 45-50 down & 15 - 20 up with fttn connection. Voda has 4g backup if the system is down. Previously on naked dsl with 0-5 dl speed , so i'm happy with what i get now

[roKWiz]

I don't have a fixed NBN connection and use Optus mobile wireless broadband due to being always on the road.

I have noticed the speed getting slower these days in the places I regularly stay. (mainly country towns)
My fathers NBN in Sydney's CBD is worst than out in the sticks most of the time due to congestion and his building.
Haven't checked recently but a wonder whether newer technology is being rolled out for mobile broadband. Not so technically savvy.
Like those NBN advert keep telling me "parts of the old system will be switched off"
Anyone know what they mean by this ?

[EgoFG]

The Copper distribution network will be "switched off", being ultimately replace completely with Fibre Optics - For many there will still be a couple o'uindred metres of copper between them and the node - and just my 2c - if that copper is ingood nick then it would be good for well over the 100mb that NBN offers.


Is there anyone on a FTN setup with a 100/40 plan that could confirm of deny ??

[Foggy]

I have a 50/20 HFC connection with Telstra and normally get about 36/14 on a speed test.
We haven't had a problem in over 12 months but when the install was done the tech went through every cable connection and re terminated them all.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

The Copper distribution network will be "switched off", being ultimately replace completely with Fibre Optics - For many there will still be a couple o'uindred metres of copper between them and the node - and just my 2c - if that copper is ingood nick then it would be good for well over the 100mb that NBN offers.

What's being switched off are ADSL services, which reduces line noise slightly, so NBN services in theory will see a modest jump in speed. For *most* they are still limited by the length of copper to the node, and a couple hundred metres is underselling it. I'm at the boundary of my distribution area, and I am 1.3km from the node… this results in a max speed of around 30Mb. IIRC, less than one third of NBN users are capable of getting 100Mb courtesy of using copper.

Considering the ADSL2 service I was moved off was 24Mb, this is frankly a ****-poor use of tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer funds. The copper network is by and large, crap. Telstra techs have only ever done bare minimum patchups. We've probably all heard of joins stuck in a coke bottle and duct-taped to seal, which inevitably leak and cause major line noise when the pit fills with water. And the 1-2 week waits for NBNco to fix such inevitable problems.

NBN proves we simply don't have the capability to do infrastructure projects in this country anymore.

[EgoFG]

Interesting b0s,
NBN says (IIRC) average lead in is about 25 metres.
Maybe I do not understand the difference betw a "pit" and a "Node".
Are you rural perchance ?

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by b0son

What's being switched off are ADSL services, which reduces line noise slightly, so NBN services in theory will see a modest jump in speed. For *most* they are still limited by the length of copper to the node, and a couple hundred metres is underselling it. I'm at the boundary of my distribution area, and I am 1.3km from the node… this results in a max speed of around 30Mb. IIRC, less than one third of NBN users are capable of getting 100Mb courtesy of using copper.

Considering the ADSL2 service I was moved off was 24Mb, this is frankly a ****-poor use of tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer funds. The copper network is by and large, crap. Telstra techs have only ever done bare minimum patchups. We've probably all heard of joins stuck in a coke bottle and duct-taped to seal, which inevitably leak and cause major line noise when the pit fills with water. And the 1-2 week waits for NBNco to fix such inevitable problems.

NBN proves we simply don't have the capability to do infrastructure projects in this country anymore.

In this day and age, I still don't understand why we are spending billions to lay down underground cables and wires.

Everything should be 4G, 5G and wireless to our homes like our mobiles.
Yes, it is currently more expensive, but the cost could come down, if you take out the costs to maintain the cables in the long term.

Even if it means paying China to send up new satellites for us to cover Australia in rural areas, it would be worthwhile.

The NBN will be old technology by the time it is all finally rolled out IMO.

[EgoFG]

OK, some quick research gives:


FTTCurb should be able to do 10Gbs (100 times the current public NBN offering)


FTTPremisis Should go beyond that, but I do not know anyone with enough coins to afford the technology to test this (I have a 1 Gb home network)


FTTNode - this is interesting. your average Australian is 500metres from a Node, and testing shows over 90mbps is realistic on new copper - so close to the best you can get from NBN FTTP that it does not matter. BUT ....
1) If the copper is old/repaired (etc) that you will not get this speed - it is impossible to tell for sure, but if you get 24Mbps from ADSL, then you *should* get 90+ from FTTN NBN - with a likely linear relationship if you get less than 24 on ADSL
2) if you are 600m from the node you will likely only get 50mbps dropping (in an oddly linear way) to 25mbps if you are 1.2km from the node

[MITCHAY]

This should have been a good infrastructure project and it has been massively ****ed up. We shouldn't be having these discussions about NBN, it should be about how good it is!

I'm on TPG ADSL2+ and with the exchange down the road getting a solid 11/12mbps at the moment which serves me fine with streaming.

I expect I will be close to a node too when it comes so in theory I should be at least as good but I have heard far more negative stories about NBN than positive so I will wait to the last minute to jump to NBN because there really isn't much incentive to jump earlier and possibly have worse speeds than now.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

OK, some quick research gives:


FTTCurb should be able to do 10Gbs (100 times the current public NBN offering)


FTTPremisis Should go beyond that, but I do not know anyone with enough coins to afford the technology to test this (I have a 1 Gb home network)


FTTNode - this is interesting. your average Australian is 500metres from a Node, and testing shows over 90mbps is realistic on new copper - so close to the best you can get from NBN FTTP that it does not matter. BUT ....
1) If the copper is old/repaired (etc) that you will not get this speed - it is impossible to tell for sure, but if you get 24Mbps from ADSL, then you *should* get 90+ from FTTN NBN - with a likely linear relationship if you get less than 24 on ADSL
2) if you are 600m from the node you will likely only get 50mbps dropping (in an oddly linear way) to 25mbps if you are 1.2km from the node

The theoretical max speed of ADSL2+ is 24mbps and it's not likely many (or anyone) will achieve it.

ADSL2+ speed depend on the users distance from the phone exchange or 'DSLAM' (essentially a mini exchange for simplicity sake). Most ISP's place their equipment in the phone exchanges and i'm pretty sure Telstra is the only ISP to have DSLAM's dotted around suburbs.

Unless your virtually right next door to an exchange or DSLAM, your won't get 24 mbps.


FTTN is essentially like lots of mini exchanges (nodes) dotted around suburbs, typically you'll find a light green cabinet located next to those phone line distribution poles, I believe the phone tech comes out and taps your copper wire in that pole to the NBN cabinet.

Given this, the speed you get from NBN has no baring on what you got from ADSL.

FTTC is fibre from that NBN cabinet, up the street to a pit, then copper from that pit to your house for the last 'hop'.

FTTP is of course replacing that last hop of copper with fibre.


I see FTTN as a much faster/cheaper way to get higher speeds to homes with the ability to progressively move to the ultimate FTTP as smart in Australia given our sp****ness.



The problems you see are down to the RSP's (retail service providers) not purchasing enough CVC from NBN to service an area typically. That's largely been sorted now.

I switched from 14mbps ADSL2+ (on a DSLAM) to NBN 50/20 and never had a problem, getting 44/18 typically from memory, can stream 4K shows on Netflix etc whilst streaming 1K shows on 2 other TV's without issue, no chance of doing that on ADSL2+.

[Sabantien]

NBN came to Winton a few months ago now.

NBN announced a while back we'd get fibre to the curb because it's quicker, cheaper and faster. But when it came time to roll it out they went with FTTN instead, because apparently it was all marketing crap. 90% of the places they said would get FTTC didn't, unless it was a liberal electorate.

I asked the NBN people why it was changed and they said they choose the fastest, most cost effective roll out for the area. When I pointed out their own literature said FTTC was the fastest, most cost effective roll out for the area they replied by saying that they choose the fastest, most cost effective roll out for the area.

So yeah. My initial impression of NBN was they're a bunch of bastards.

Anyhow, time came to get connected and the Telstra tech came out. He had a bit of work to do because at some time previous to me moving in someone had physically severed the phone line. But he dodgied up a connection and used some electrical tape to connect it. He said he'd come back to install a proper box over it but never did.

He was able to test the line and tell me what my max speed would be, and we're on about 50. Not ideal, but it does the job.

It's been pretty stable for the most part. The odd drop out. I went with Aussie Broadband and it's been good service. No lock in contracts either, so I can always change my plan at any time.

Just last night I had my amazon prime buffering something fierce, but right now unsure if it was a problem with amazon, a problem with the nbn, or a problem with my router being in the spare room with no aircon and the temps reaching 40+ every day.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

FTTNode - this is interesting. your average Australian is 500metres from a Node, and testing shows over 90mbps is realistic on new copper - so close to the best you can get from NBN FTTP that it does not matter. BUT ....
1) If the copper is old/repaired (etc) that you will not get this speed - it is impossible to tell for sure, but if you get 24Mbps from ADSL, then you *should* get 90+ from FTTN NBN - with a likely linear relationship if you get less than 24 on ADSL

Not necessarily... I was on a tophat just down the street for ADSL2. I was shifted to a node 1.3km away when NBN was rolled out, despite a micronode in the adjacent distribution area (over the street) being only 200m away. IMO, if they were going to persist with copper, the micronode approach was more appropriate as it meant you minimised copper length and therefore minimised the inherent problems caused by copper.

As for the condition of the copper, when NBN was first planned, the ALP commissioned a study of the copper network to determine if it could be used. The study found what many of us already know - Telstra had allowed the network to fall into a pitiful state of repair. When LNP took over, they simply dismissed the report because it came from ALP and forged ahead.

Fundamentally, my gripe is that LNP have saved 20% of the cost but delivered a 50% poorer product. We'd have been better off continuing with FTTP. By not factoring in the condition of the copper, they've effectively not budgeted for the ongoing cost to keep it running...… I'll be surprised if in 10 years time, it doesn't end up costing as much as the original FTTP NBN anyway.

[Nanoraptor]

Used to have ADSL2+ here, and had a solid 21/1Mbps. Switched to NBN as soon as it came here, and for the first six months paid for 100/50 and received a nice 70/35 tops via an FTTN connection.

Then suddenly early December last year I dropped out for a day and it came back to 35/15. Still better than the old ADSL but hardly any kind of groundbreaking. I dropped down to paying for a 50/20 plan and it's doing the job. for now.

For most of my work it's enough. The connection does seem a touch more fragile than the old ADSL2+ which would drop out every couple of months for a few minutes, as opposed to once a week now for the same amount of time. Neither a big inconvenience.

It irks me that the rubbish copper network is being used as if it's some kind of great cost saving when it forced such a change to the design of the network and essentially just kept us off fibre.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

In this day and age, I still don't understand why we are spending billions to lay down underground cables and wires.

Everything should be 4G, 5G and wireless to our homes like our mobiles.
Yes, it is currently more expensive, but the cost could come down, if you take out the costs to maintain the cables in the long term.

Wireless will never match fibre. Period. Like I said in my post above, the current record for fibre speed is 159Tb/s over a distance of over 1000kms. 5G will be 1Gb/s with a possible distance away from the tower of what? 5kms? Over that, there would be too much interference from the atmosphere to see those speeds over large distances.

Fibre is the future of all telecommunication needs and is the backbone of the wireless networks that the telcos roll out. Nothing will superseed it until someone discovers something that travels faster than light.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by b0son

NBN proves we simply don't have the capability to do infrastructure projects in this country anymore.

We can do the projects, we just don't have the politicians with the balls to back them.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by Kieron

FTTN is essentially like lots of mini exchanges (nodes) dotted around suburbs, typically you'll find a light green cabinet located next to those phone line distribution poles, I believe the phone tech comes out and taps your copper wire in that pole to the NBN cabinet

Node cabinets are usually near the pillar that feeds an area, however in some cases they are no where near the pillar and results in excessive copper length.

FTTC is fibre from that NBN cabinet, up the street to a pit, then copper from that pit to your house for the last 'hop'.

Close. FTTC fibre does not come from a FTTN cabinet. In fact the only difference in the fibre run between FTTP and FTTC is where the fibre ends at or near the premises

I see FTTN as a much faster/cheaper way to get higher speeds to homes with the ability to progressively move to the ultimate FTTP as smart in Australia given our sp****ness
.

extending fibre from the node to the premises won’t give you the same speeds as FTTP as the nodes only have 2 fibres connecting them back into the network and are speed limited. There are some good network diagrams that show the various FTTx variants.

FTTN is a waste of everyone’s time and money. The only benefit is allowing more premises to be connected quicker, however even that is questionable due to the delay when the libs took over and directed NBN to stop.
We have 10s of thousands of nodes that have batteries that will require replacing every 5 years, active equipment that requires power and can fail resulting in outages and requires the crappy distribution copper network which leaves far too many withsub ADSL2+ speeds.

Off my soapbox now.

[Syndrome]

No problems with our NBN connection. Been more than 1 year since NBN was connected.

[devilcv8]

While I have FTTN I’m fortunate in that I’m one of a maximum 117 properties on the node and am close enough to get 100/40 although the copper isn’t the best as I’ve noticed my maximum attainable rate has dropped from what was being reported when I connected over 2 years ago. Stats below
DSL Type
VDSL2
DSL Mode
Fast
Maximum Line rate
37.7 Mbps 95.87 Mbps
Line Rate
20 Mbps 54.99 Mbps
Data Transferred
2454.82 MBytes 3649.47 MBytes
Output Power
7.2 dBm 11.6 dBm
Line Attenuation
5.6, 25.3, 38.3 dB 14.2, 32.2, 47.7 dB
Noise Margin
17.8 dB 19.1 dB

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

Node cabinets are usually near the pillar that feeds an area, however in some cases they are no where near the pillar and results in excessive copper length.

I did say typically

Close. FTTC fibre does not come from a FTTN cabinet. In fact the only difference in the fibre run between FTTP and FTTC is where the fibre ends at or near the premises

If FFTC doesn't come from the cabinet, where dos it come from?

I think I did state the difference between FTTN and FTTC endpoints correctly.

extending fibre from the node to the premises won’t give you the same speeds as FTTP as the nodes only have 2 fibres connecting them back into the network and are speed limited. There are some good network diagrams that show the various FTTx variants.

I think your referring to the actual optical distribution network here. At some point, a network has to congregate to a shared cabling resource. An NBN cabinet may have two fibers entering but its the devices at either end that determines the speed. Cabinets in turn congregate back to another central point and so on.

Sure, those cabinet cables have a limited shared speed but as new tech comes along, the endpoint devices can been upgraded as required regardless of where they are physically located.

What was the original FTTP network topology -

Devices in phone exchanges and individual fibres to each home?

Devices in exchanges and backbone fibre cables up streets with taps to each home?

Mini exchanges around suburbs with fibre to each home or backbone up streets with taps to homes?

Mini exchanges around suburbs with fibre cables up streets with taps to each home?

FTTN is a waste of everyone’s time and money. The only benefit is allowing more premises to be connected quicker, however even that is questionable due to the delay when the libs took over and directed NBN to stop.
We have 10s of thousands of nodes that have batteries that will require replacing every 5 years, active equipment that requires power and can fail resulting in outages and requires the crappy distribution copper network which leaves far too many withsub ADSL2+ speeds.

Off my soapbox now.

My guess is most of Australia would still be waiting for NBN if it remained 100% FTTP, stunting the growth of internet in Australia, FTTN is fast enough and is still expandable.

I would have thought the exchanges housing the networking equipment for FTTN would require power backup equipment and associated maintenance?

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by Kieron

If FFTC doesn't come from the cabinet, where dos it come from?

I think I did state the difference between FTTN and FTTC endpoints correctly.

fibre up until the FTTC unit is distributed exactly the same as FTTP, aka from the nearest GPON. If you pay for a fibre upgrade from FTTC to FTTP the fibre run is from the FTTC unit to your premises. To do the same for a FTTN premises means running fibre from the nearest GPON which is a long way upstream from the node, hence will cost a lot more.

I think your referring to the actual optical distribution network here. At some point, a network has to congregate to a shared cabling resource. An NBN cabinet may have two fibers entering but its the devices at either end that determines the speed. Cabinets in turn congregate back to another central point and so on.

Sure, those cabinet cables have a limited shared speed but as new tech comes along, the endpoint devices can been upgraded as required regardless of where they are physically located.

What was the original FTTP network topology -

Devices in phone exchanges and individual fibres to each home?

Devices in exchanges and backbone fibre cables up streets with taps to each home?

Mini exchanges around suburbs with fibre to each home or backbone up streets with taps to homes?

Mini exchanges around suburbs with fibre cables up streets with taps to each home?




My guess is most of Australia would still be waiting for NBN if it remained 100% FTTP, stunting the growth of internet in Australia, FTTN is fast enough and is still expandable.

I would have thought the exchanges housing the networking equipment for FTTN would require power backup equipment and associated maintenance?

The network diagrams show the various FTTx variants. I’ll go search for one soon.
The original FTTP topology utilises a GPON network and while there are NBN cabinets, they are white and have no power requirements. They are purely for last mile patching to the premises.

FTTN is not expandable to provide the same speeds as what a FTTP solution can achieve. FTTN customers are still hamstrung by the copper from the node to the house.