NEW laws will allow authorities to collect and monitor Australians' internet - Page 2

gtxb67 · 24-08-2012, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

But then in Australia, I don't think we can do this in our back yard -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8

or this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSp7CipN1pw

true, but the first guy at least is a professional russian

Russ · 24-08-2012, 07:14 AM

Where will it all end, I already sold the white van and told the kids to catch the bus home from school, now it looks like I'm gonna have to start buying movie tickets and popcorn again.

Jim Goose · 24-08-2012, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

You have to ask yourself why in Australia you can go to prison for 6 months for refusing to tell the police a password for your encrypted computer, yet in the US this is completely legal. It is to do with the fact that their rights are enshrined into a Bill of Rights, which is an integral part of their constitution.

ummm... its the other way around sorry.
In the USA you can be jailed for a very long time without being charged with ANY crime....all thanks to laws passed after 911.
Ask 2 aussie sailors a few yrs back who were jailed, shackled for nearly 3 weeks without being charged...

I have no idea where you got the idea about refusing to tell a password keeps you in jail for 6months in Australia.

Russ · 24-08-2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

I have no idea where you got the idea about refusing to tell a password keeps you in jail for 6months in Australia.

It was in all the newspapers and on ACA and TT so it must be true

superyob · 24-08-2012, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

It was in all the newspapers and on ACA and TT so it must be true

Funny...

TMC · 24-08-2012, 08:33 AM

All freedoms are relative, and the Australian government can revoke them all at any time if they wish, or see a "political necessity" in doing so. It's been that way since Federation. Before that we were under the totalitarian rule of the British Empire. A "do as we say-or else" system of government.

Wise · 24-08-2012, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kable72

Thing is, from what I gathered from that is that they're able to log EVERYONEs data but only be able to access it if they had a warrant. Seems that they believe everyone to be guilty of something so they log everything and access it as they require.

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

NEW laws will allow authorities to collect and monitor Australians' internet records, including their web-browsing history, social media activity and emails.

But the laws, which will specifically target suspected cyber criminals, do not go as far as separate proposed laws designed to retain every Australian internet user's internet history for two years in the name of national security.

Under the laws passed yesterday, Australian state and federal police will have the power to compel telcos and internet service providers to retain the internet records of people suspected of cyber-based crimes, including fraud and child pornography. Only those records made after the request will be retained, but law enforcement agencies will be prevented from seeing the information until they have secured a warrant.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/tech...822-24mur.html

I think some of you are confused as to what this law is allowing the authorities to do.

The ISPs log data usage currently for their own billing purposes - the police have the issue that the ISPs don't retain the info.

What these laws are aiming to do is give the authorities access to persons of interest internet records (not the persons computer) and force ISPs to retain the data for those individuals internet traffic (not their computer) for use as evidence and investigation.

The info can only be used/viewed when a warrant is obtained. If they don't obtain the warrant it will never be viewed by anyone and after 2 years its gone.

These laws don't force ISPs to log everyones traffic and activity for the view of authorities at any time. Its only for persons of interest in the areas of cyber crime/kiddie pr0n and that sort of stuff.

There are other data retention laws that are being fiercely fought by members of parliament at the moment that would go way beyond this and log all internet usage by everyone, which is what I think a lot of you are confused with.

Read more about it in a more technically oriented manner here:

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/312771...ily_newsletter

**cs123** · 24-08-2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMC

All freedoms are relative, and the Australian government can revoke them all at any time if they wish, or see a "political necessity" in doing so. It's been that way since Federation. Before that we were under the totalitarian rule of the British Empire. A "do as we say-or else" system of government.

It was mentioned earlier. We are fat, comfortable and lazy in Australia. We've never had to band together and fight for something here. We will moan a bit and just accept what is dished up to us generally.

Kable72 · 24-08-2012, 08:49 AM

Well, all they're going to see from me is random data to and from gaming servers and pron, yeah. Don't care too much about what they see but it's wrong to force everyones data to be logged. Assuming everyone is a criminal so everyone needs to be monitored.

Wise · 24-08-2012, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

Apparently all your internet history, especially stuff related to Google owned website, is all stored somewhere and can be viewed by certain people.
Saw it on another forum, people were complaining that the government was going to invade their privacy.

All I think is if someone was going to look through my internet history, they must of ticked off everything else on the list of things to do and are now scrapping the bottom of the barrel if they want to view my boring internet history.

Ever seen an ad on a website related to something you like?
That's no coincidence, the internet knows what you have previously viewed and puts ads up specifically for things you may like.

How to delete your google history:
https://www.google.com/history/?ctz=-600

You can also opt out of their scheme

I think what you're talking about is that they log all traffic through their searches and owned websites. Most internet sites log that you were there so they can see where their traffic comes from and advertise accordingly. Google do the same - they log all that info to present the correct ads on their websites and searches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWTB

What determines being a cyber criminal? Downloading music and movies? 90% of people with the internet are guilty of that. Watching porn? Most blokes would be guilty of that too.

Are they going to arrest 3/4 of the country? How do they decide who is 'more guilty' than the rest of the proletariat (appropriate terminology in light of this new law, I think).

Many people who have been pirating music for years use a proxy from another country and/or encrypt their internet traffic and also use programs such as HideMyIP to remain out of sight.

Of course, an ISP can still see where the traffic from their network is going, like to the piratebay servers, but how do they know what you're downloading unless they're intercepting the SSL traffic and decrypting it and viewing the packets? That still isn't going to help in the case of these laws either, because the traffic will just say there was an SSL connection to Server A (piratebay.se) for example, and xyz amount of data was downloaded over a secure connection from Server B, C, D, E, and F.

The recent kerfuffle that iinet won in the high court against the movie production companies from the US about surrendering records about who had downloaded what pirated movies under copyright laws was a big step forward for that sort of thing. Iinet didn't have to give them squat and kept on their merry way providing internet access without notifying anyone that pirated movies were being downloaded through their network.

Russ · 24-08-2012, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cs123

It was mentioned earlier. We are fat, comfortable and lazy in Australia. We've never had to band together and fight for something here. We will moan a bit and just accept what is dished up to us generally.

Here's the proof to back up your claim

Kable72 · 24-08-2012, 09:16 AM

Soon enough, all this is going to build up overtime and there will be protests. I for one, may be among them. Cost of living is going up too fast, Revenue raising not going to the places where the revenue is being raised from, rego is getting expensive, seemingly everyone is guilty unless proven innocent from this new law. It's going to get too much and people are going to stop **** and moaning about it and will actually do something.

Sprint · 24-08-2012, 09:17 AM

Bit off topic but

techically we are all still slaves.

Slaves that dont realise we are slaves, sure we think we have freedom but our life is made to work and pay taxes for goverments.

No one if free from this, who owns the earth?why cant you take your patch for free?.

Soon we will be cyborgs for the men in charge lol. haha well thats prob a long long time away hehe.

This monitoring is not about criminals,its about control.

there is a old roman law that all laws are based on called "habeas corpus" saying we should all have the rights to fair treatment.

Wise · 24-08-2012, 03:26 PM

I suppose thats one way to look at it...and get quite deep at the same time

Personally, if this helps with cyber crime in Australia I am all for it.

Franco Cozzo · 24-08-2012, 03:59 PM

I hope they like Jayden James and Jenna Jameson then.

svo supporter · 24-08-2012, 05:29 PM

People that have been ripped off by internet scams should be happy the gov't is asking for powers to log internet usage and where it's occurring....Might help catch some of these scum....Same applies to these perverted mongrels that like downloading kiddy porn....Makes it harder for these ****** to get away with it.

as I have said before...if you have nothing to hide, why be so worried?

mcnews · 24-08-2012, 05:38 PM

The police and agencies already have huge powers to investigate peadophilia and the like, and coordinate those resources worldwide. It is mentioned here as a smokescreen so the gullible swallow it whole. And the if you have nothing to hide line.....spare me..... This along with the new atrocious bikie laws that are Hitler like in their scope and are already jailing retarded kids for simply hanging out with their life long friends from school etc..... The laws that allow the police to crush your car with basically no burden of proof on their behalf... etc. etc. No wonder when people are so stupid to swallow this crap that we will end up a police state.

Keepleft · 25-08-2012, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Nazis were fascist, not communist. There is quite a bit of difference.

The nazis were anti-communist, (the NSDAP anthem HVL circa 1923 tells you of their fallen fighting against the reds) its why HH received international, and of course domestic industrial financial backing; they saw him as the best chance of stopping the tyranny of communisim, and they didn't wanting taking hold in Germany - hence those running street battles in the 20's. Shame about the rest eh?? Anyhow, you'll see the references to 'the reds';
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb5MjWZ7kxk
(The communists had a version of this if I am not mistaken.

Quote:

These things happen because the public allows them to happen. They have short memories, no passion, are easily led and easily convinced of anything by mass media. Fed lies but there's plenty of pokies to distract them and mind numbing TV, like kittens with a ball of wool.

Granted, their is much of this in evidence, people don't like having to fight a political fight, we are weary enough as it is - what with decades of 'reform' on this society (the western), easier to escape all that and chill. (Till something serious bites).

Quote:

We need to have a look at what the French do when they are unhappy. Proper protests and riots in the streets. We are all pawns here because we are so selfish, comfortable and stupid. It's a pity.

No, we don't need to be rioting (yet, far from it:-). You think its a pity we are 'comfortable'? Have you taken leave of your senses? :-))))

We should be less apathetic, sure.....

These new laws, are just another intrusion, and of course some will simply hark; 'if you have nothing to hide blah blah'. Consider; would we permit GovCo to go through our PRINTED mail, record it and keep it for two years??

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

as I have said before...if you have nothing to hide, why be so worried?

Permit me then to open all your postal mail, copy and store it - just in case I find 'something'. Heck, I might even stop a scammer mailing something to you, but I might not bother telling you either, since my job is just to record your stuff....

A cost of freedom is that sometimes - crap happens.

svo supporter · 25-08-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

The police and agencies already have huge powers to investigate peadophilia and the like, and coordinate those resources worldwide. It is mentioned here as a smokescreen so the gullible swallow it whole. And the if you have nothing to hide line.....spare me..... This along with the new atrocious bikie laws that are Hitler like in their scope and are already jailing retarded kids for simply hanging out with their life long friends from school etc.....I don't agree with them trying to get these laws in, but that's another topic

The laws that allow the police to crush your car with basically no burden of proof on their behalf... etc. etc. No wonder when people are so stupid to swallow this crap that we will end up a police state.

This isn't true.....You have to be convicted a few times under the anti-hoon laws for them to crush your car.....This means in court.....So unless the court system is totally stuffed (which can be debated)....Besides there has been an outrage amoungst the general public, that too many people have been convicted too manytimes and not had their cars crushed... Then we could go onto, how many idiots have been court filming their antics and posting them on youtube?????

onfire · 25-08-2012, 03:51 PM

Hey, if you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about.

Sprint · 25-08-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire

Hey, if you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about.

thats not really the point, its the goverments watching everything we do and recording it without your permission.

there is talk about new "google face recognision" as there may be plan to sell it to advertising so when you go into a shop the sign says "hey brett,you need new pants like the ones you like,there on special".

onfire · 25-08-2012, 06:43 PM

And what would it matter if these laws were nation wide, or an international standard in all developed countries?

Or is it simply an opportunity to jump on the high horse and carry on about something else until the next thing comes on?

Tell me, if the man next door was arrested tomorrow on the making, procession and distribution of child pornography, would you not to thankful for these laws?

**SSD-85** · 25-08-2012, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire

And what would it matter if these laws were nation wide, or an international standard in all developed countries?

Or is it simply an opportunity to jump on the high horse and carry on about something else until the next thing comes on?

Tell me, if the man next door was arrested tomorrow on the making, procession and distribution of child pornography, would you not to thankful for these laws?

No, I wouldnt be thankful. Because the means of his capture were a result of authorities snooping into our activities as human beings. One assumption leads to another & before you know it, half of Australia are victims of our own free-thinking in what is quickly becoming a Stalinist society.

Like it or not, there will always be sicko, mal-adjusted people on this earth. And we shouldnt have to suffer as a society because of administrative laziness and cost-efficiencies. Id happily pay more taxes knowing that it would be used to implement less-generalised excuses for tracking down oxygen thieves.
But the powers that be are no better than the scum they proudly state on capturing based on the above perception/opinion.

gtxb67 · 25-08-2012, 07:36 PM

it is funny that people are so worried about their privacy and yet they will post photos of peoples cars with number plates showing, they will post/repost videos of people making fools of themselves. it looks like the only people who's privacy is important is those who break the law - pity help us if someone dealing in child porn is only found because their privacy was violated

as always, the vast majority of the population only care when they think it might affect them - to those . . . don't do anything wrong and it will not matter
to those who actually care about everyone's privacy no matter how trivial it might seem, then i understand where you are coming from

**GasoLane** · 25-08-2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cs123

We will moan a bit and just accept what is dished up to us generally.

Yeah, we're pretty apathetic...... but who cares?

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire

Hey, if you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about.

The Axiom "An innocent man has nothing to fear from Police" is currently under review by the Axiom review board. (T Pratchett)

mik · 25-08-2012, 09:45 PM

the thing about all this to me is the Authorities already have plenty of power, the Authorities are like a big snowball rolling down a hill , the more they have the more they want, the technology for computer specialists to hack your data is there already, the problem i see there should be some boundary`s `s for personal privacy.
google hacked web cams

google abuse of power, i did, it comes up with this .......... About 230,000,000 results.

Trek · 25-08-2012, 10:29 PM

There has to be an end to the boundaries they're pressing upon us :/ I knew that govco could monitor if requested, but there will definitely be a breaking point for society, eventually. Sufficient numbers of the apathetic will awaken to the truth, given enough time... writing them off as being medicated for life will be the mistake some will make...

Trek · 25-08-2012, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire

Hey, if you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about.

And finally a point that I vehemently disagree with you about. Submitting everything to the powers that be is the wrong answer to the problem. The dismissal and denial surrounding that thought is one of a lack of consideration. Even if you're not guilty, you'd remain entirely controlled... are you truly comfortable with that? (I think not...)

I implore you to think where all this is really leading us...

Dusty1 · 26-08-2012, 11:08 AM

I'm worried.

Off to http://www.whale.to/ for me so I can find some solutions.

svo supporter · 26-08-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trek

And finally a point that I vehemently disagree with you about. Submitting everything to the powers that be is the wrong answer to the problem. The dismissal and denial surrounding that thought is one of a lack of consideration. Even if you're not guilty, you'd remain entirely controlled... are you truly comfortable with that? (I think not...)

I implore you to think where all this is really leading us...

Preparing your next legal speech

They're looking at controlling our internet usage, making sure we're not doing anything illegal...IMA, they're already scanning the net for illegal activity, which is well documented with all these stupid people posting their antics on youtube and downloading of other sickening acts...

I think this law is another way to make sure that conviction sticks, rather than invading our privacy