Revive Car Industry in Australia

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Do you live in a remote or less populated area?

It's considered remote, 2km down the road pays half the price of electricity as me though, go figure, comes from the same power station too.

I'll stick with my dirty V8 that melts ice thanks.

[Citroënbender]

In conjunction with the upcoming feral election, one news website published a recent file photo of car C1 with following armoured SUV.

I’m not a “lion lover” but there was something deeply unsettling about a nominal figurehead of this country - my country of birth, my migrant parents’ choice of a safe and prosperous place - promenading in a vehicle that paid zero homage to the ground beneath its tyres. Couldn’t they at least reskin it with a stretched and massaged 48-15 lookalike body? And while they’re at it, maybe a hybrid drivetrain.

[fgpsi]

Can't wait to put chev badges on my electric aussie built Holden again

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Actually I stand corrected, it was 11 cents for a long time, they raised it now to 14 cents per kwh off peak

In the case of the Model S with the extra range battery option charging at home power supply will take 48-52 hours to be fully charged.
Pretty sure that's going to need some peak rates for a car you can only use every 2nd day. its going to cost a lot more than $5.50 to charge.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/1...attery-charge/

you can use some sort of twin charger to improve the time but I'm quite sure that will use more power.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Do you live in a remote or less populated area?

Where do you live Kmav? & who pays your power bill?

[fgpsi]

How long before hsv takes the shell from the electric car and chucks an lt4 in it ?

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Pie in the sky.

Yup,good luck with this one.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

In the case of the Model S with the extra range battery option charging at home power supply will take 48-52 hours to be fully charged.
Pretty sure that's going to need some peak rates for a car you can only use every 2nd day. its going to cost a lot more than $5.50 to charge.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/1...attery-charge/

you can use some sort of twin charger to improve the time but I'm quite sure that will use more power.

You need to install a level 2 charger at home which charges the car fully overnight during off peak. This is what most Tesla owners have at home, you still use the same amount of electricity.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Where do you live Kmav? & who pays your power bill?

Sydney, I pay for it myself.

Where does your fuel come for you car?

[zipping]

The science around rechargeable battery technology is NOT settled. Too many confounding variables and you can’t make guarantees about battery life unless you control the recharging regime very closely. Otherwise you’re asking the customer for the cost of replacing an internal combustion engine every 5 years when they need to replace the EV batteries. So buying an EV means a commitment to no resale value when you upgrade.

Another issue that has arisen in a Melbourne affluent suburb is that when they hook 4 or more Tesla's up for recharging the power goes off in the street.

A quick calculation reveals that if every car were to convert to electric today, with no change in usage pattern with a further assumption that charging could be manages with “smart chargers” to spread the charge load evenly throughout the day we would need to double electricity generation.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by zipping

we would need to double electricity generation.

That's fine. It's emissions-free....

[marty351]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Sydney, I pay for it myself.

Where does your fuel come for you car?

Everywhere but Sydney.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by zipping

The science around rechargeable battery technology is NOT settled. Too many confounding variables and you can’t make guarantees about battery life unless you control the recharging regime very closely. Otherwise you’re asking the customer for the cost of replacing an internal combustion engine every 5 years when they need to replace the EV batteries. So buying an EV means a commitment to no resale value when you upgrade.

Another issue that has arisen in a Melbourne affluent suburb is that when they hook 4 or more Tesla's up for recharging the power goes off in the street.

A quick calculation reveals that if every car were to convert to electric today, with no change in usage pattern with a further assumption that charging could be manages with “smart chargers” to spread the charge load evenly throughout the day we would need to double electricity generation.

Tesla has a 8 years / 192,000 km battery warranty.

Tesla S has been around for 7 years with original batteries.

California - Toyota Prius warranty is 10 years or 240,000km

There are Prius which have done 1 million kms on original battery.

EVs have 60% less parts and far less maintenance. Battery costs are constantly falling with increased range anyways.

As for charging and effect on the grid, EV charging at home uses the same output as appliances !

There are many countries who have massive amounts of EVs and they are doing fine with their grid.

Norway - 40% new cars electric (population 5 million)

Shenzen China - All 16,000 buses and 21,000 taxis are now electric (population 12 million)

Resale value of ICE cars would fall more as governments and car manufacturers have announced they are going to phase Ice cars.



https://insideevs.com/ev-charging-at...ctric-furnace/

Electric vehicles can be charged at power draws comparable to various household appliances.
Most electric vehicles charging at home on a 240-volt level 2 charger will draw about 7,200 watts or less.

For comparison, a typical electric furnace draws about 10,000 watts and a water heater uses 4,500 watts. The power draw for an electric vehicle is limited by either the electric vehicle supply equipment (EVSE) or the vehicle’s onboard charger which limits the rate of electricity the vehicle can accept.

Many first-generation plug-in vehicles have onboard chargers limited to 3,600 watts, similar to the power draw for a typical home air conditioning system, while newer electric vehicles have increased onboard charging rates. Some owners use only a standard 120-volt household outlet (level 1 charging) which has a very slow charge rate and low power draw compared to the level 2 charging. There are some electric vehicles, such as those produced by Tesla, that allow for even greater home charging speeds and higher power draws similar to an electric furnace. While an electric vehicle can draw a considerable amount of electricity when charging, the overall fuel cost for an electric vehicle is lower than a comparable gasoline vehicle.

Notes:

Level 1 charging assumes the 12-amp setting is selected.
In colder climates, an electric furnace may draw 20,000 watts.
For comparison, a 2013 Nissan LEAF is rated at 115 MPGe (miles per gallon equivalent) and a conventional 2013 Nissan Versa is rated at 35 MPG. This results in a cost of 3.8 cents per mile for the LEAF and 6.7 cents per mile for the Versa at 13 cents per kW-hr and $2.35 per gallon of gasoline.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by marty351

Everywhere but Sydney.

Australia is currently dependent on imports for more than 90% of its fuel needs.

If you use EVs 100% is produced and generated from Australia and we become more energy independent.

Less reason to spend billions taxpayers money and risk soldiers lives on wars in the middle east.

The reason why the world gets involved in middle east wars and stays out of conflicts in Africa and South America.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Sydney, I pay for it myself.

Where does your fuel come for you car?

comes from the Arabs. via SE Asia. how do you get to work?

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

comes from the Arabs. via SE Asia. how do you get to work?

I catch the train.

Do you think we should be energy independent ?

Be able to have the industrial ability, expertise and capacity to make some cars in Australia ?

[PG2]

Originally Posted by kmav23

...

As for charging and effect on the grid, EV charging at home uses the same output as appliances !

There are many countries who have massive amounts of EVs and they are doing fine with their grid.


...

How many appliances? If every household was to plug in all of their appliances at once, even in off-peak times, wouldn't the grid go into meltdown? You see it all regularly on hot days with air conditioning.

I'm a shift worker and so too are several others in my street. If us shift workers all had electric cars, therefore would be charging our cars during the day, how would the grid cope?

As for other countries, maybe their grids are made to a higher specification.

EDIT: Also if everyone had electric cars and were charging them during the night I would assume that 'off-peak' would no longer be off-peak?

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Australia is currently dependent on imports for more than 90% of its fuel needs.

If you use EVs 100% is produced and generated from Australia and we become more energy independent.

Less reason to spend billions taxpayers money and risk soldiers lives on wars in the middle east.

The reason why the world gets involved in middle east wars and stays out of conflicts in Africa and South America.

If we used coal for all our power we wouldn’t have to rely on any outside sources

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kmav23

I catch the train.

Do you think we should be energy independent ?

Be able to have the industrial ability, expertise and capacity to make some cars in Australia ?

We should be using our Uranium.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by PG2

EDIT: Also if everyone had electric cars and were charging them during the night I would assume that 'off-peak' would no longer be off-peak?

Bingo. Electricity companies would see that off peak no longer existed.

[ute83]

Off peak power is cheaper because there is plenty of base load available during the hours of minimal use. I half the population uses power at night to charge their cars there won't be " peak, off peak ". Hence the price would sky rocket to peak prices and more pretty quickly.

[fgpsi]

If they bring in electric car manufacturing can we at least have a GT and then play V8 noise out of the speakers ?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by kmav23

The traditional auto makers won't be interested in returning to Australia. I can only see pure EV automakers tempted to come. EVs require 60% less parts and if they have more robotic automation in their factories like Tesla they would require less Labour. Also Tesla manufacturers its own batteries which which Australia has all the raw materials. Thus they will also sell storage batteries. Labor has been negotiating with overseas car makers about what would interest them. I would presume they had some interest before announcing the policy.

Tesla claimed to use more automation ,but had to get rid of a lot of it because it either couldn't do what humans do, or it continually stuffed up. Surely being a paid Tesla employee you would know the reason they had such savage production problems was because of the automation they tried to use?

Once again Elon tried to be too clever for his own good. No wonder they can't make profit.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

We should be using our Uranium.

Renewable energy is now cheaper then building Nuclear and coal power and is the cost is still falling.

Investment in renewable has overtaken investments in fossil fuels.

Even without any subsidies its now cheaper to build solar and wind.

Other problems
- Super expensive to build
- no wants to be built next to them
- Nuclear waste disposal
- accidents and terrorism target

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Tesla claimed to use more automation ,but had to get rid of a lot of it because it either couldn't do what humans do, or it continually stuffed up. Surely being a paid Tesla employee you would know the reason they had such savage production problems was because of the automation they tried to use?

Once again Elon tried to be too clever for his own good. No wonder they can't make profit.

Many industry experts have inspect their factories and said they use far more automation then any other car company.

They just went overboard in some areas where the machines were not ready.

Machines, robotics and AI improve every year.

Have a look a the Amazon.

Tesla purchased German Grohman company to help automation.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by PG2

How many appliances? If every household was to plug in all of their appliances at once, even in off-peak times, wouldn't the grid go into meltdown? You see it all regularly on hot days with air conditioning.

I'm a shift worker and so too are several others in my street. If us shift workers all had electric cars, therefore would be charging our cars during the day, how would the grid cope?

As for other countries, maybe their grids are made to a higher specification.

EDIT: Also if everyone had electric cars and were charging them during the night I would assume that 'off-peak' would no longer be off-peak?

We have huge electricity capacity during off peak hours as people are asleep and businesses are closed.

There is more then enough capacity to charge cars.

By the time we have 50% EVS or more we would have battery storage as well to smooth the grid.

Homes, businesses and the grid will have batteries to capture solar power.

However peak electricity currently is 2pm - 8pm might become cheaper as we have a surplus of solar and wind plus batteries. Other parts of the world they have too much renewable electricity its free or they pay people to use it.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by kmav23

We have huge electricity capacity during off peak hours as people are asleep and businesses are closed.

There is more then enough capacity to charge cars.

By the time we have 50% EVS or more we would have battery storage as well to smooth the grid.

Homes, businesses and the grid will have batteries to capture solar power.

However peak electricity currently is 2pm - 8pm might become cheaper as we have a surplus of solar and wind plus batteries. Other parts of the world they have too much renewable electricity its free or they pay people to use it.

At the moment Australia does not have huge electricity capacity and as for batteries well that is one big joke.
You reading and hearing too many fairy tales as to what the politicians are spinning to you.
You need a reliable base load power to back up your electricity grid system something the morons want to dismantle in this country.

[hayseed]

I'm surprised Tesla Doesn't have solar panels built into the roof (or even the Bonnet & Boot lid for that matter) & It could charge itself while ever it was outside..

[au2000]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Tesla has a 8 years / 192,000 km battery warranty.

Tesla S has been around for 7 years with original batteries.

California - Toyota Prius warranty is 10 years or 240,000km

There are Prius which have done 1 million kms on original battery.

EVs have 60% less parts and far less maintenance. Battery costs are constantly falling with increased range anyways.

As for charging and effect on the grid, EV charging at home uses the same output as appliances !

There are many countries who have massive amounts of EVs and they are doing fine with their grid.

Norway - 40% new cars electric (population 5 million)

Shenzen China - All 16,000 buses and 21,000 taxis are now electric (population 12 million)

Resale value of ICE cars would fall more as governments and car manufacturers have announced they are going to phase Ice cars.



https://insideevs.com/ev-charging-at...ctric-furnace/

Electric vehicles can be charged at power draws comparable to various household appliances.
Most electric vehicles charging at home on a 240-volt level 2 charger will draw about 7,200 watts or less.

For comparison, a typical electric furnace draws about 10,000 watts and a water heater uses 4,500 watts. The power draw for an electric vehicle is limited by either the electric vehicle supply equipment (EVSE) or the vehicle’s onboard charger which limits the rate of electricity the vehicle can accept.

Many first-generation plug-in vehicles have onboard chargers limited to 3,600 watts, similar to the power draw for a typical home air conditioning system, while newer electric vehicles have increased onboard charging rates. Some owners use only a standard 120-volt household outlet (level 1 charging) which has a very slow charge rate and low power draw compared to the level 2 charging. There are some electric vehicles, such as those produced by Tesla, that allow for even greater home charging speeds and higher power draws similar to an electric furnace. While an electric vehicle can draw a considerable amount of electricity when charging, the overall fuel cost for an electric vehicle is lower than a comparable gasoline vehicle.

Notes:

Level 1 charging assumes the 12-amp setting is selected.
In colder climates, an electric furnace may draw 20,000 watts.
For comparison, a 2013 Nissan LEAF is rated at 115 MPGe (miles per gallon equivalent) and a conventional 2013 Nissan Versa is rated at 35 MPG. This results in a cost of 3.8 cents per mile for the LEAF and 6.7 cents per mile for the Versa at 13 cents per kW-hr and $2.35 per gallon of gasoline.

If you want some real credibility, how about you quote australian examples, not us ones,

Tbh currently when I see your posts I skip them as I'm over it,

Constant electricity supply in Australia? Bull dust, in summer we have blackouts in Victoria and are even told on 40 degree plus days to use our air conditioners conservatively as the grid can't keep up with the supply.

When will I buy a electric vehicle? When I can't buy petrol anymore or when every new car is electric..

Until then, I'll keep driving my v8 as hard as legally possible, I'll drive my HX as often as I can and I'll punish my rear tyres .. Why? Cause tyres are evil and must be punished

[roddy1960]

Nah....Forget fuel and EV's ...Buy one of these Aussie assembled things and forget the row over EV v Fuel altogether...

About $120,000 , take off and land in well less than 100 metres if you have too as well..can do your own maintenance for the most part apparently too and not huge training to learn to fly the Foxbat .

Aussie assembled in Victoria I think ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAvPsN8tvPc . ........and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpDMfvCH9k0...

They climb at about 650 ft per minute , ultra stable can almost hover so low is the stall speed ...Get into strife and you could just about land anywhere .

Forget cars , go flying ....