Friday Hulk: are car spaces too small?

[Ross 1]

Thats been the minimum standard for at least the last 20 years, in the 70,s the era of big Kingswoods and Falcons the minimum width was actually smaller. Try parking a Territory at the council multi storey in Manly.

[HULK_I6T]

I wonder if someone published a website shaming the shopping centres with small spaces and acclaiming those with generous spaces? A ranking system

With a big scare campaign about how your car will be damaged if you park in certain places.. Shop here and your less likely to return to your car with this!! showing photos of scrape marks..

Even have people upload their damage and what carpark it occured.

If it got any traction, I do say that shopping centres might just re mark their carparks a lil bigger.

[MAD]

Speed humps have standards too. Doesn't mean they all meet them.
It even sparked a radio campaign #shavethehump

[GasoLane]

If you own a 2 door car every space is too small!
It's not only actual space that is a problem, it's often the distance between lanes is too narrow.
I often see mums in their Panzer division 4wd's trying to get out of the parking space without bumping into the car beside or behind them.

That's why I park way out the back and tell myself that the extra walking is good for me.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

I wonder if someone published a website shaming the shopping centres with small spaces and acclaiming those with generous spaces? A ranking system

With a big scare campaign about how your car will be damaged if you park in certain places.. Shop here and your less likely to return to your car with this!! showing photos of scrape marks..

Even have people upload their damage and what carpark it occured.

If it got any traction, I do say that shopping centres might just re mark their carparks a lil bigger.

Doubtful. The regulations for car parking are clearly stated in the National Construction Code or what was called the Australian Standards. As long as the designer & owner of the precinct has drawn in the correct sizing for car parks as well as the minimum amount allocated according to the code, the shopping centers will not claim any responsibility.

Councils require a minimum amount of car parks per sq.m of shopping space. Cars sizes also vary too from tiny to mammoth so it is virtually impossible to cater for all vehicles, hence why the car parking code hasn't really changed.

It would be nice for the shopping precinct to accept some form of responsibility for such tiny car parks, but at the end of the day, these places have signs put up stating that you park there at you're own risk. I see them up every time I enter a shopping car park. You cannot seriously place the blame of the shopping center, the NCC, the council, or the designer for the damage incurred from an ignorant child or some careless parent of that child. That is like passing the buck.

The rules have been set, and the onus is on the persons using the car parking system at the time to be accountable.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

If you own a 2 door car every space is too small!
It's not only actual space that is a problem, it's often the distance between lanes is too narrow.
I often see mums in their Panzer division 4wd's trying to get out of the parking space without bumping into the car beside or behind them.

That's why I park way out the back and tell myself that the extra walking is good for me.

Agree with the 2 door thing My GT4 was the most difficult car I've owned to get out of. big doors and low to the ground. plus poor visibility

However the wifes panzer Prado has to be the easiest. Short doors and you step up on the running board to get in and out, also has a fantastic turning circle, plus elevated views to look down a curbs etc.

[BIONIC MAN]

Yeh, as a daily F Truck driver they are too small.. I find it fits really well, diagonally across two spots and I regularly park like that at bunnings etc. Hangs out too far at the back if I go straight in to one spot.
My other idea is more of these shopping center type car parks, should have angled parking facing the direction of traffic flow, and that should be more one way in sections to promote that.
Even in one of my " normal " cars, it's too narrow and tight to get at right angles to get into a spot easily, and angled parking would fix that.
You might lose spot or two at each end of the car park with that design, and that's the problem, land costs big money, and more spots for parking in a given area the better.

I have a mate who is a draftsman, he has a computer program that simulates parking in tight spots, recently on the owners request he designed a unit complex with only 30mm clearance for the average vehicle to turn around a corner and park in the garage. How could you ever judge that!?
Smaller spots mean bigger buildings and more money for the developers. Stupid really as some would be turned away by the impossible parking situation unless they own a smart car...

[xisled]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

these are insufficient.. A large SUV with kids swinging doors everywhere will collect the next car, even if everyone parked perfectly in the middle of each spot (which they never do).. Or at Bunnings, someone has some large equipment thay are trying to ram in their car, open the doors and whack..

I saw a lady the other day in a people mover, slide her car ride along the next car, scraped the whole car.. pushing the next car over, she simply went back and forth a few times until she could get out of her car, she left the car there and went shopping!!! didnt even try and run off.. The owner of the next car dont have to be colombo to work out where all the damage come from, the next car is still there!!!

Sure a shopping centre might get a few less spots in by making carspots generous, but to take care of their patrons and repeat business... its well worth it.

I simply do not park in certain carparks anymore..

Try hold that person responsible for the damage. If you come back to your car and found damage and the car next to you has the matching damage, without witness or other person admitting they did it, nothing can be done.

That is why she didn't even bother to run off.

[Ratmick]

One of my local country Railway Station carparks is older than the other.

The older one on the same side as the Station building has spots what are at least 150-200mm narrower than the newer side. These spots are too small unless everyone drives a Focus-sized car or smaller. Last time I parked there was in a Magna, some tw@t in an old Merc parked so close to me I had to climb in the passenger-side door and over the centre console...and I was in the exact middle of my spot, they were a foot inside mine as well...2" from my car.

The newer side is freshly paved, the spaces are wider and the overflow is dirt and gravel and you can park where you like. I park in this one even if my train is leaving from the other side...which is rarely does now anyway.

Sunbury Bunnings is just as bad as the old part of the station. I parked down there last summer on a windy day and the wind blew the door out of my missus' hand and flung it wide open. Fortunately I had parked a Focus door width + one centimetre away from the Hyundai i35 next to us and no damage was done. However when I got back I learnt the hard way i35 doors are 2cm wider than a Focus door as there was very neat 1cm-deep concave dent in the passenger's door that started at the door handle and finished at the edge of the rear door. No note, no oops, no mea culpa and no Hyundai. B@stards.

[jpblue1000]

Trawling through AS/NZS 2890.1 1986 or revisions 1999, 2002 and 2004 would suggest that new carpark spaces have got larger, new aisles have got larger to accommodate larger cars.
the 1979 B85 vehicle, representing the more common average car is 167mm shorter and slightly narrower than the 2004 B85 vehicle which coincidentally and interestingly is and was the ford falcon! (this is based on social fleet surveys)
In order to gain approval for construction new carparks must adhere to the current Australian standard, and I doubt many major carparks diverge from this design criteria, the risk is too great.
The 2004 version of the standard uses 2000 as the sale year to survey to determine the 99 and 85th percentile vehicles.
Carparks are getting bigger, drivers are getting worse, cars are generally a disposable object, the owners/designers of carparks don't have to consider making allowances for you.

JP

[raised by monkeys]

Small parking spaces with these things can go **** themselves for destroying front bumpers. One grabbed my ef xr6 front, lowered only 1" from stock with no body kit in 2005. I have been reverse parking against them since. My Tornado has stock FPV suspension (albeit terrible), the Tornado bar hangs lower than any other stock B series front and can barely get up any driveway/incline/soft kerb without touching tar. Wouldn't think for half a second about parking forward against one of these, or at least where my back end isn't hanging out the park to ensure it doesn't grab my front end.

I built a house which was finished in 2009 and has a '2 car' garage. With my ute parked in it, there is just enough room to open the passenger and drivers door to get out, and just enough room to walk around the front or rear of the car.

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Doubtful. The regulations for car parking are clearly stated in the National Construction Code or what was called the Australian Standards. As long as the designer & owner of the precinct has drawn in the correct sizing for car parks as well as the minimum amount allocated according to the code, the shopping centers will not claim any responsibility.

Councils require a minimum amount of car parks per sq.m of shopping space. Cars sizes also vary too from tiny to mammoth so it is virtually impossible to cater for all vehicles, hence why the car parking code hasn't really changed.

It would be nice for the shopping precinct to accept some form of responsibility for such tiny car parks, but at the end of the day, these places have signs put up stating that you park there at you're own risk. I see them up every time I enter a shopping car park. You cannot seriously place the blame of the shopping center, the NCC, the council, or the designer for the damage incurred from an ignorant child or some careless parent of that child. That is like passing the buck.

The rules have been set, and the onus is on the persons using the car parking system at the time to be accountable.

Australian standards or not... If people refuse to shop at a location in fear of their car being damaged, management will increase the size of the spots

I think its more around venue capacity and x amount of carspaces being available

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

If people refuse to shop at a location in fear of their car being damaged, management will increase the size of the spots

I doubt very much management will flutter an eyelid if you refuse to park or shop at their establishment, even if a vast majority of 'enthusiasts' refused to use their local carpark with their prized possession, it would hardly be worth the millions of dollars in redesigning and reconfiguring their carparks.
JP

[T3ts50]

When I go to the shops I try and park next to a pole and try and get as close as possible to it. That ways you only really have to worry about potential damage on one side.

[cs123]

This is like watching "Fox and Friends". In spite if people trotting out the standard the developers comply with. Hulk keeps telling us they are too small.

He is an idea. If you don't like the parking space size, don't park there.
If you are worried about getting doored, don't park there.

No one gives a ******* toss. I feel stupider for reading this thread.

If you don't like idiotic threads, don't read them.. Oh ****... I'm leaving now....

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Ross 1

If I'm designing or landscaping a commercial property or units we have to adhere to the specs in Charliewool's post. 5.4m x 2.5m min.

Correct, in Wait Awhile the law is parking spaces must be 5.5 x 2.5 (3.5 for disabled spaces), clearly marked and a certain number of them provided based on the GLA of the development. If they don't do it, they don't get their certificate of occupancy.

No certificate of occupancy, business no worky. Boom tish.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

Australian standards or not... If people refuse to shop at a location in fear of their car being damaged, management will increase the size of the spots

I think its more around venue capacity and x amount of carspaces being available

No way. If that were the case, what you are suggesting would have happened by now. Sadly, some people who shop regularly are of the opinion that 'it's just a car' and they don't care about their car so they assume you dont either. It has not, nor will not stop those who couldn't give 2 tosses about their vehicle. They just want to do their shopping and go home.

Only those who are enthusiasts about their cars or people who actually care would think about refusing to park in the shopping centre. Most lazy people don't want to walk the extra 20m and will risk it.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Agree, spaces are too small, even if everyone parked perfectly there is barely enough room, it has nothing to do with the ability to park as I can reverse park any of my cars into a space with 50mm on either side without a problem, I used to park trucks around the Sydney CBD, reverse them down alleyways and into obscured loading docks in city buildings daily, so reversing anything is an easy task for me.

But spaces should be wider, as especially in a 2 door Falcon or even my ute (has the same doors) it is almost impossible to get out of the car in a standard car parking space, I need to park out the back where no one parks next to me.

I trained my kids when they were small not to open the doors, I would get out and do it for them to avoid damage to other cars. Mums with kids are the worst getting kids out of baby seats, but then again they just don't have the space to do so, my old XR8 in Sydney looked like a dodgem car by the time I sold it, and it was only due to others causing damage.

In our H3 we I fitted a stainless steel side rail, so anyone opening the door will hit the steel bar instead of the door panel, 6 years later no panel damage

With any of my cars I am ultra careful where I park as I hate car park dents, used to love my old Landcruiser, with full side impact bars, and massive bull bar, used to come out of the shops and the spaces either side of it would be empty on 90% of occasions

The average person sees a car as 'Just a Car' and the damage does not concern them, had this discussion with a mates wife a while back, she damaged the brand new car they only recently bought and husband was upset, she did not care saying, it's only a car, what does it matter.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

.

But spaces should be wider, as especially in a 2 door Falcon or even my ute (has the same doors) it is almost impossible to get out of the car in a standard car parking space, I need to park out the back where no one parks next to me.

I don't have this problem? I only have 2 door cars with their longer doors and still not a problem? in the **** box I don't care where I park still no problem. what is different with you? Not accusing or knocking just asking?

JP

[Sabantien]

I find my FG takes up the entire length of most spots, and sometimes sticks out. I have come across a couple places with very narrow spots though, and it can definitely be a problem.
I haven't had any damage from car doors, but Ihave had a trolley scrape down the side.

I have a few strategies. At my closest shopping centre I go for the rooftop parking. No one parks there unless everywhere else is full. The spots are also plenty big.

At the larger shopping centre I go to I take one of the undercover carparks. There's large concrete pillars, and if I get next to one of those I can open my door as wide as it will go and it won't go near the car next to me. This way I can park a little towards that side of it, and more room on the passenger side.

Where I used to work I had my favoured spots. Some were in a place where no one could park next to you, or some are just extremely wide.

Did it stop damage to my car? Nope. The red paint smeared across my bumper had nothing to do with someone parking next to me.

In the end it's just a car, no point stressing too much.

[Ross 1]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

Australian standards or not... If people refuse to shop at a location in fear of their car being damaged, management will increase the size of the spots

I think its more around venue capacity and x amount of carspaces being available

The management of the shops you are talking about would ,odds on, have absolutely no say in the car park design. It is all done by architects working to a set code and in conjunction with the council for larger projects. They have to provide impact statements for surrounding residences etc etc and the council then dictates the number of spaces you need to comply. Done

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by blueoval

No way. If that were the case, what you are suggesting would have happened by now. Sadly, some people who shop regularly are of the opinion that 'it's just a car' and they don't care about their car so they assume you dont either. It has not, nor will not stop those who couldn't give 2 tosses about their vehicle. They just want to do their shopping and go home.

Only those who are enthusiasts about their cars or people who actually care would think about refusing to park in the shopping centre. Most lazy people don't want to walk the extra 20m and will risk it.

Also when your at a shopping center I notice people always try and find a spot as close to the front as possible. Like the extra 50m walk will kill them or something.

Most people don't give a stuff. As someone suggested find a spot that most people won't park at. If your still worried then then don't go.

[TheSneakiness]

Wow a non narrow minded Hulk thread, I'm shocked so I will participate.

Yes they are getting smaller (or are cars getting bigger?), my case in point is the train station at Springfield Central on the southern side of the Centenary Highway.

I swear each car park was made small on purpose to not only meet the bare minimum standards but also to cram as many cars as possible in a small space. Even if you park dead straight and have the same amount of space on both sides of you, it is still nearly guaranteed you will get a dent in the door.

[Harrison]

I think they are. Parking the wagon can be difficult sometimes.

But I have a plan to counter the poor roads, bad drivers and carpark klutzes that seem to getting worse every time I venture out.


I'm building a battle truck.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Ross 1

Thats been the minimum standard for at least the last 20 years, in the 70,s the era of big Kingswoods and Falcons the minimum width was actually smaller. Try parking a Territory at the council multi storey in Manly.

Wow! I just don't remember it like that. But as Ronald Reagan (I think) said: 'My best memories are of things that never happened"...

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Also when your at a shopping center I notice people always try and find a spot as close to the front as possible. Like the extra 50m walk will kill them or something.

And you will always see a handful of 'nicer' or looked after cars parked right up the back.

But somehow every time I do that somebody gets lonely and parks right next to me when there is a stack of free spaces

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

And you will always see a handful of 'nicer' or looked after cars parked right up the back.

But somehow every time I do that somebody gets lonely and parks right next to me when there is a stack of free spaces

Not round my area. Seems they don't care (I always try and park away from people). Mercs, Audi's, Clubsports, even a VK Group A (which I thought was game) near the front.

But your right someone always seems to want to park next to you even if there are plenty of spots. I've actually jumped in the car and moved it after someone did it to me....looked at me like I was a crazy person.

[auxr]

Ha - you guys just entered the wonderfull world of Hulk, and as yet again got sucked into his weird and wonderful Friday free for all.

Heres one idea - if the car park is too small - don't go and drive there, ride a bike or catch a frigging bus - debate over.

[Elks]

My FG Pursuit ute, is too long for most new car spaces. Whilst it's not a micro car it's no F series or Land cruiser either. I feel for those guys.

[Express]

I always parallel park my cars on the street, I don't mind the walk if need be.

When I have to use a car park, I take the wife’s car as it’s reasonably small.

This thread would have been more interesting if it asked what would you prefer to park in a small space next to other inconsiderate drivers, a XR6T or a XR8?