AWD Falcon?

[Bucket]

I think the AWD Ford Fusion is based on the Mazda 6 MPS AWD Drive Line

[Bucket]

Here is some information pointing to this

Originally Posted by wikipedia.org

Changes to the CD3 platform from the Mazda6 include stretching it by 30 mm (1.2 in) in width and 55 mm (2.2 in) in length, strengthening it, and modifying the suspension for a more compliant ride. Like the Mazda, the Fusion uses the Mazda-designed 2.3 L Duratec 23 I4 and Ford-designed 3.0 L Duratec 30 V6. All wheel drive is offered for V6 models in 2007.

The Fusion shares some interior parts with the otherwise unrelated European Mondeo, such as part of the console and the seats. Both automatic and manual transmissions are available (the latter only with the I4 engine).

[NoStopN]

Don't be fooled. The only similarity between an American Fusion & an Aussie Falcon is each is the biggest selling car in each country. The Fusion is smaller, slower, lighter, & less "manly" than the Falcon. It does offer an AWD model. But, that's for morons in this country that can't drive (which is most of them ).

[XRated]

Originally Posted by FPV-USA

Don't be fooled. The only similarity between an American Fusion & an Aussie Falcon is each is the biggest selling car in each country. The Fusion is smaller, slower, lighter, & less "manly" than the Falcon. It does offer an AWD model. But, that's for morons in this country that can't drive (which is most of them ).

And what about those morons who feel safer behind the wheel of an AWD car in snowy/icey conditions?

[Piotr]

Isn't the fusion based off the Fiesta?

[marcosambrose]

1. The Fusion is a different platform
2. FoMoCo Oz can't afford the development costs
3. The business plan isn't feasible
4. As mentioned before just look at the Magna AWD flop
5. My balls are itchy

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by XRated

And what about those morons who feel safer behind the wheel of an AWD car in snowy/icey conditions?

It's not just snowy/icey conditions though. It's ALL conditions they are better for.

[Squalo]

if they do release an AWD I dont think that they would let it race in the V8 Supercars.

The Falcons sold today have only their bodyshell in common with the V8 Supercar Falcons. What's under the skin is irrelevant, the V8 Supercar Falcons don't even run the OHC V8 that's in the showroom cars (it's a pushrod alloy 302 Windsor).

Plus, AWDs are worse to drive than 2wd cars in 90% of all driving situations - especially in Australia

By whose standards? My Outback is one of the most competent vehicles I've ever driven on sealed roads - well balanced and predictable. I'm not much into sliding cars on public roads (that's what my bike is for : ) and it's very hard to provoke it into behaving badly.

On the dirt the Outback almost drives itself when the surface gets loose. Plough understeer? Just gas it. Rear getting light? Hit the gas. Nice : )

And when it rains, it's in a whole other class altogether - if I tried to drive the Berlina in the rain like I drive the Subaru I'd be a part of the scenery.

Yes it uses more fuel than a vehicle of comparable weight and power, but it's nimble and grippy all the time.

Which is why an AWD Territory is top of the list to replace it this year, as kid no. 3 is due in October (sigh, there goes my GT-P).

[Rev28K]

Hmm. The Orion needs to sell well which means that it needs the money to go into the models that will sell the greatest volume with a halo model or two to generate showroom traffic.

For: Orion is rumored to be getting the Territory’s front suspension (or something close to it). If it has the same mounting points, packaging dimensions of the Terry’s I don’t think it would be that hard to do a 6 cylinder (or 6 turbo) version (starts day dreaming of a tweaked F6 driveline with Territory front suspension and transfer case).

Against: How long can a V8 Falcon keep going? On tarmac without big power do you need 4WD (and are your potential customers willing to pay for it)? On sealed roads do you need the disadvantages of 4WD when you have increasingly better stability and traction controls.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Piotr

Isn't the fusion based off the Fiesta?

Maybe the UK Fusion?? Not the American Fusion...its based on the stretched Mazda 6 Platform (read above)

[Bucket]

and who the hell gave this thread a 5 Star Rating???

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

5. My balls are itchy

Did ya give 'em a good scratch Marcos?

[weenie]

i think there is a case for one. not every one wants the handling characteristics of the terri. being an owner of one of the oppositions awd vehicles, i think i can safely comment on its awd capabilities. while waiting patiently for ford to bring an awd out based on the falcon, i changed camps. looked initially at the addy, but we couldnt get past the plastic flares. so it was off to drive an avalanche. the rest is history now. yes there were only a couple of hundred made. i am yet to drive an awd wagon that has the road holding, braking & acceleration & towing ability that this thing has. For a 2 ton vehicle to do what this does is a credit to the engineers. As an all round package it has met our needs on all levels. It has a lot more cargo area than any subaru, i think it is slightly more than a terri as well. it tows like a weapon, no susp changes needed due to the self levelling rear suspension. On the twisties it is so hard to get used to accelerating when other rear cars are still braking. We have done heaps of ks on dirt roads & it has had no issues at all. There are a few susp bushes that need to be replaced here & there. Mainly link pin bushes, as well as the massive control arm bushes at 70000km. All maintenance in my book. It could do with a 6speed auto instead of the 4 speed, as the change in ratio from 2nd to 3rd is a fair bit. Fuel economy is around 14-15l/100 around town. On the open road its straight down to low 11/100 & towing varies from 14l/100 - 17.5/100 depending on how hard its driven. Going by the numbers of terris out there , some of those people would want an awd sedan or wagon. holden just stuffed up only releasing the v8 addy first.And then made it worse by limiting the power to about 150-160 awkw. If it was closer to tha ava at 198awkw it would have done better on fuel.

[Flouro_Joe]

Originally Posted by XRated

And what about those morons who feel safer behind the wheel of an AWD car in snowy/icey conditions?

How often does it snow in Toorak or Mosman?

[JC]

Originally Posted by fordman6

Was on the Ford USA website havin' a snoop around and saw that the Falcon equivalent Fusion has an AWD model out early this year. Was thinking to myself, would that suit the Orion? Give us your thoughts

Isn't that what the Territory AWD is?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

1. The Fusion is a different platform
2. FoMoCo Oz can't afford the development costs
3. The business plan isn't feasible
4. As mentioned before just look at the Magna AWD flop
5. My balls are itchy

Other than point 5 I agree!

AWD is a waste of time, get a diesel happening before then; much higher probability of export potential.

That AWD Monaro was a huge hit! :togo:

[MITCHAY]

Have those that say AWD is not worth anything in Australia, actually driven one and can say why it's not worth anything? Just interested that's all.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Have those that say AWD is not worth anything in Australia, actually driven one and can say why it's not worth anything? Just interested that's all.

IM sure most people have been in one. As far as "performance" cars go Ive been in wrx's. skylines, liberty RS etc and IMO while they are quick they are boring.

Also those cars are alot lighter than our RWD falcons, AWD is just going to add weight.

There is nothing wrong with RWD, and there is no need for a AWD sedan. Maybe a Ute but that would be about it. Also the locked diff RTV is pretty handy anyway.

[apolloxbgt]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Have those that say AWD is not worth anything in Australia, actually driven one and can say why it's not worth anything? Just interested that's all.

Agreed,ver close minded group here.

I can see that it would be a waste of money as the devolpment cost wouldn't be recovered,but to say that it isn't worth having :

Originally Posted by Neeek

Look at them all - Subarus, Audis, Magnas... all FWD architecture. When was the last time you heard of a decent sized sedan (not SUV) that had RWD architecture being made AWD? I can only think of BMW X-cars in the late 1980s... and there's a reason they don't exist anymore - nobody but some crazy Finns bought them!

I guess the GTR (gts+4)and 911 don't count hey?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by weenie

i think there is a case for one. not every one wants the handling characteristics of the terri. being an owner of one of the oppositions awd vehicles, i think i can safely comment on its awd capabilities. while waiting patiently for ford to bring an awd out based on the falcon, i changed camps. looked initially at the addy, but we couldnt get past the plastic flares. so it was off to drive an avalanche. the rest is history now. yes there were only a couple of hundred made. i am yet to drive an awd wagon that has the road holding, braking & acceleration & towing ability that this thing has. For a 2 ton vehicle to do what this does is a credit to the engineers. As an all round package it has met our needs on all levels. It has a lot more cargo area than any subaru, i think it is slightly more than a terri as well. it tows like a weapon, no susp changes needed due to the self levelling rear suspension. On the twisties it is so hard to get used to accelerating when other rear cars are still braking. We have done heaps of ks on dirt roads & it has had no issues at all. There are a few susp bushes that need to be replaced here & there. Mainly link pin bushes, as well as the massive control arm bushes at 70000km. All maintenance in my book. It could do with a 6speed auto instead of the 4 speed, as the change in ratio from 2nd to 3rd is a fair bit. Fuel economy is around 14-15l/100 around town. On the open road its straight down to low 11/100 & towing varies from 14l/100 - 17.5/100 depending on how hard its driven. Going by the numbers of terris out there , some of those people would want an awd sedan or wagon. holden just stuffed up only releasing the v8 addy first.And then made it worse by limiting the power to about 150-160 awkw. If it was closer to tha ava at 198awkw it would have done better on fuel.

Looks like weve found one of the 5 people who bought one...! _2:

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by JC

Isn't that what the Territory AWD is?

Negative.

The Fusion is a East West (Typical Front Wheel Drvie)
While the Ford is North South in set up...they would be completely different.
Ford didnt borrow from the American Parts Bin. For the Territory.

[XRated]

Originally Posted by Flouro_Joe

How often does it snow in Toorak or Mosman?

It's pretty wet and slippery in Melbourne today. It doesn't have to be only snow that makes roads slippery. Anyway champ, it might be worth noting what was quoted - it was in reference to the US.

[sprjenkins]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

And NO.. they can't just bolt the Territory AWD gear into a Falcon !!!

Yes you can, you originally had awd territory gear in falcons for testing purposes and Nizpro also reckon you can and are looking at doing it for some real big horsepower turbo applications

[weenie]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Have those that say AWD is not worth anything in Australia, actually driven one and can say why it's not worth anything? Just interested that's all.

exactly what i would wonder MITCHAY. having the experience of driving an awd in all different conditions & punting one around hard. i dont think there would be many qualified opinions here. One of the previous replies stated the awd monaro was basically a flop. HSV only intended to make a couple of hundred in coupe ,wagon & xuv. I still think this was a test bed for another generation of awd in their line up. With fpv & hsv putting out more & more power, the only logical next step in safety is awd. for the knockers that say its boring, again have you driven them hard???? or have you only driven the small 4 bangers????

[weenie]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Looks like weve found one of the 5 people who bought one...! _2:

actually in my area one of 3. If ford didnt drop the ball i wouldnt have had to cross to the dark side. they still havnt filled the gap yet. :

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by weenie

exactly what i would wonder MITCHAY. having the experience of driving an awd in all different conditions & punting one around hard. i dont think there would be many qualified opinions here. One of the previous replies stated the awd monaro was basically a flop. HSV only intended to make a couple of hundred in coupe ,wagon & xuv. I still think this was a test bed for another generation of awd in their line up. With fpv & hsv putting out more & more power, the only logical next step in safety is awd. for the knockers that say its boring, again have you driven them hard???? or have you only driven the small 4 bangers????

Yeah because everyone that buys an AWD car hammers around "hard" all day.

Americans are obsessed with safety this and safety that, paranoia is rampant and im sure that has something to do with it aswell. If you dont have AWD then your just not safe....

BMW is argueably the best manufacturer in the world, I think most people would agree with that. Now they are a company that sell cars all over the world, and they handle every weather pattern you can throw at them. They have one AWD vechile and its an SUV, fair enough.

They dont even stoop to FWD in their smallest car! (excluding the Mini of course). Your in la la land if you think AWD is the epitome of safety.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by sprjenkins

Yes you can, you originally had awd territory gear in falcons for testing purposes and Nizpro also reckon you can and are looking at doing it for some real big horsepower turbo applications

No.

HAND BUILT mules NOT cars made off productionised Hi-volume tooling mate.

[4Vman]

I guess it really depends on how you view AWD...
In my mind AWD is for traction on non sealed surfaces, and i think you'll find 95% of the population view it the same. With that in mind unsealed surfaces usually present ground clearance issues and rough road suspension requirements, when you put it all together you end up with anything from the Territory and many of Suburu's models which are "soft roaders" right the way to a Landcruiser or Hummer which are serious "off roaders".
Suburu and Audi pioneered the use of AWD in performance applications, albiet on unsealed roads too... so i guess the requirements for AWD on sealed roads and performance applications is a very limited market that in many peoples mind adds an unnecessary price premium.

[Polyal]

The new floor plan (tunnel) required for an AWD sedan would kill the idea straight off the bat. How many do you want to sell? It would cost millions to develop. The falcon is not going to be exported in great numbers in a hurry until another plant is opened somewhere else aswell.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by weenie

actually in my area one of 3. If ford didnt drop the ball i wouldnt have had to cross to the dark side. they still havnt filled the gap yet. :

LOL, fair enough, i guess Ford were/are pretty content to stay out of small niche markets.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Polyal

IM sure most people have been in one. As far as "performance" cars go Ive been in wrx's. skylines, liberty RS etc and IMO while they are quick they are boring.

I reckon your wrong on both counts.

Have a look at the 5th Gear episode of Tiff Needel driving an Ver 8/9 STi and tell me thats boring.