Fuel Supply (gas) Issue

[GK]

Picks as requested trick_xd.







Cheers,

GK

[The Dok]

I took out the plunger & spring & re-assembled it so from outside. it looked untouched, I guess it does fill up with gas, but doesn't really matter.
I'll post a pic later today & you can see my adjuster set-up if you wish.

[GK]

Originally Posted by The Dok

I took out the plunger & spring & re-assembled it so from outside. it looked untouched, I guess it does fill up with gas, but doesn't really matter.
I'll post a pic later today & you can see my adjuster set-up if you wish.

I just disconnected the stepper from the line, pushed the plunger back in and put it back in the line. The plunger was hanging out into the pipe a fair bit, as see in the previous pics. I wonder what effect that had on the ability to fine tune with the brass screw?

In the end, the plunger ended up being vitually flush with the inside of the pipe. I'm pretty happy with that, so I'll do a little more tuning with it this way and see how it goes.

Cheers,

GK

[trick_xd]

ok so you know what the 2 screws are on the side .. thats good .

test it with the stepper motor out of the way of the power valve .

if it runs good then .. with the stepper motor unplugged then you know you have a problem with ether .. gas computer , stepper motor , oxy sender

if its the stepper motor then leave it disconnected ..
if its the gas computer then get another one
if its the oxy sender then get a new wide band one

[The Dok]

Here's mine, see if you can obtain just the screw type valve (same as mine) & do away with the stepper motor, it'll only involve a new piece of hose from the converter, if it doesn't fix the problem, revert back to the current set-up.

[GK]

That looks quite neat Dok. Where did you get that bit? How much was it? How stiff is that screw adjuster?

I must admit, I'm close to spot on now, ok off the line and at highway speeds when giving it the berries. LOL! I must admit though, it felt stronger last night, but I was applying WOT at 80kmph and it always feels as though you're going quicker at night.

Once I factored that into my testing this arvo, I was pretty sure that I have it about spot on now. A few more days testing to and from work with my normal type driving and I'll know if that's correct.

I guess if I get that new brass fitting, I could screw it in or out to mimic the setting I have just got about right this arvo. That would get me right in the ballpark I'd reckon!

GK

[The Dok]

I got it (donated) from a customer of mine (Propane 2000) in Dandenong who basically talked me through the whole (flatspot) issue. They know these Tickford systems inside out & when I mentioned the problem knew exactly what was causing it without even so much as a test drive!
Using their specific instructions, diss-assembled & removed plunger & spring from the stepper motor, cut the gas line & put the adjustable valve in, took me @10 mins to install, 2 mins to tune (turns easy) & I've had NO problems since (@2 years). More power though, & negligible increase in fuel consumption.
The valve only retails for @$20 I believe. _2:

[GK]

Originally Posted by The Dok

I got it (donated) from a customer of mine (Propane 2000) in Dandenong who basically talked me through the whole (flatspot) issue. They know these Tickford systems inside out & when I mentioned the problem knew exactly what was causing it without even so much as a test drive!
Using their specific instructions, diss-assembled & removed plunger & spring from the stepper motor, cut the gas line & put the adjustable valve in, took me @10 mins to install, 2 mins to tune (turns easy) & I've had NO problems since (@2 years). More power though, & negligible increase in fuel consumption.
The valve only retails for @$20 I believe. _2:

Hi Dok, cheers for the pic.

I see your stepper motor is attached to the converter? Is that right? If so, I see why you needed to gut it.

Mine is in the line. It'd be mega easy to take it out and put a valve like yours in. Do you reckon you could get me one and send it to me? I know that's stretching it a bit but then I'd know I'm getting the same bit as you have.

If it's too much trouble to actually get me one, (hey we all have pretty busy lives and many priorites) Do you think you could get me your customer's number so I could talk to them about it, and perhaps get them to send me a valve?

Any such help would be great. I'm getting pretty confident with the tuning now, learning what fuel starvation and oversupply feels like, so I suspect it wouldn't take me long to get it in the ballpark.

And if it wasn't any improvement, I still have my current setup that's working well at the mo.

GK

[The Dok]

That's correct, the stepper motor body is attached to the converter.
Looking at yours, it would be simple to do away with the whole ***'y, (essentially it's only a computer controlled fuel leaning & enriching actuator).
Propane 2000 (97918571) Brighton rd Dandenong. Give them a call, I'm sure they'll be happy to help, but also, I think most LPG conversion specialists will have the same valve, if you do have trouble obtaining 1, PM me & I'll pick 1 up for you later in the week & post it over to you.

[GK]

Originally Posted by The Dok

That's correct, the stepper motor body is attached to the converter.
Looking at yours, it would be simple to do away with the whole ***'y, (essentially it's only a computer controlled fuel leaning & enriching actuator).
Propane 2000 (97918571) Brighton rd Dandenong. Give them a call, I'm sure they'll be happy to help, but also, I think most LPG conversion specialists will have the same valve, if you do have trouble obtaining 1, PM me & I'll pick 1 up for you later in the week & post it over to you.

Cheers Dok!

GK

[GK]

I had a chat with the gas mechanic today, he can get me a valve like yours for about $10 but just said to unplug the stepper motor and bottom out the piston. He said it will be fine one I've done this and it will have no bearing on the gas flow.

whilst I'm happy to save (although a minute amount) of dough, I much prefer the look of your setup.

I still have a slight hesistation at full throttle, but at 3/4 or thereabouts, the car feels really strong.

In light of this, I slightly tweaked the gas idle screw a bit and I'll see how that runs.

At least I'm happy enough about the state of the tune now!

I'll let you know how it's gone after a long country run or two coming up next week or so.

Cheers and thanks everyone for your help and encouragement.

GK

[trick_xd]

thats a inline power valve you have there DOK .. yes the tickford gas kits are not very good ... when the converter stuffs up youe even better off to go to a O.M.V.L. or a LANDY set up ... if you went IMPCO then you would have to change your mixer as well.

GK as for a new line from your converter to the power valve to your mixer you can just use a bit of 5/8 heater hose ... it is ok to use it that way.

a inline power valve should cost you around 10$ as r.r.p. is 13$

GK good to see you are learning .. and understanding what the difference is between rich and lean ... some people cannot understand or even notice the difference.

remember that you do not need your stepper motor plugged in .... and with it not plugged in it will work the same way as DOKs inline valve

Cheers
Swanny

[GK]

I've enjoyed learning some new skills as part of this process!

Gee it's getting really close now. A bit of a turn either way I reckon. That's actually been hard, because it's only very small adjustments now.

How long should I leave an adjustment though? Should I leave it for a full run from work to home or visa versa, to allow the computer to learn? Or should the adjustment be straight away?

GK

[trick_xd]

No you should leave it for a little while ...

A drive to work and back should do it ... some times you move the screws and it works ... some times you move the screws and it sticks there and I have had to hit the converter a few times to get it to move/adjust..

Cheers
Swanny

[GK]

I've been having so much trouble getting the screw that's part of the stepper motor setup finely tuned that this morning I went out and bought a power valve, some hose and 2 new clamps.

I was wanting to do this anyway as the setup is so much neater and adjustments far simpler, because the power valve setup doesn't have locking nut that you had to undo everytime!

So I carefully cut the hose, allowing more length of course, (you can always cut a bit more off but it's a pain to add!) and installed the power valve. I was able to use the new hose to lift the valve much higher than the old stepper was, and also eliminate a little bit of a kink in the hose coming off the converter.

I went across the other side of Melton to get some gas (all these tests consume lots of it!) and pump up the tyres and made a few adjustments and it felt okay.

Left it until I headed home, gave it the berries, too rich, leaned it a 1/4 turn, too rich still, leaned it another 1/4 and thought "hey that feels pretty good!"

It's been that way since and feels strong at full berries and really strong of idle and also responds really well to slight throttle inputs. Dok was certainly right in that the car feels more powerful, but is more responsive than before.

I wonder if 1. the little bit of the piston still in the stepper motor setup, 2. the slight kink (read quite slight) in the converter hose and 3. the fact that the diameter of the power valve was smaller than the stepper setup, made adjustment all that much more efficient.

The Mrs took the wagon to the shops and I sms'ed her and she replied that the car felt good. It wasn't good last night when she drove it LOL!

Hopefully that's it sorted. The drive to work tomorrow will give me a good idea but I'm very close if not all the way there. I'm happy that it's good enough now, certainly better than it was with the old setup, now it's a matter of whether or not I've got a little more performance from an 1/8 of a turn either way!

Thanks again guys for all the help and encouragement!

I would definately recommend replacing an in line stepper setup with a powervalve. Dok was spot on when he said his was easy to tune, that's been my experience in a few goes, where with the stepper setup, I've been going hard for days with less success!

I got the bits for $26 all up from an LPG supply place in Freight Rd Tullamarine.

Cheers,

GK

[The Dok]

Sounds like an excellent result George, I guarantee it will run & perform much better & give no trouble long term, just tweak it every now & then to ensure it's at optimum levels & steer clear of Safeway gas & you'll be smiling. _2:

[CamAU]

Well done GK. Glad to have shared part of the journey in the car!

Cam

[trick_xd]

Well done GK .
for a bit better tuning put the power valve as close to your mixer as you can.
it will also improve your throttle response..

and safeways gas is ok still .... the thing about gas is it is all the same .. you are better filling up at a El-Gas servo as they have Propane gas and it is better then any other gas ..

[GK]

Originally Posted by CamAU

Well done GK. Glad to have shared part of the journey in the car!

Cam

Hi Cam, great to have you on board. Hey everyone, this is Cam my best bud!

He's got an AU2 Futura wagon.

Cheers,

GK

[GK]

Originally Posted by trick_xd

Well done GK .
for a bit better tuning put the power valve as close to your mixer as you can.
it will also improve your throttle response..

Thanks for another good tip trick_xd!

GK

[GK]

Well I've had the family and some gear in the car on a country drive. I made a very minor adjustment and it's going great!

A couple of times I put the foot down to overtake and it pulled very clean and hard. Once was also uphill, so I'm pretty stoked about it.

Thanks again Dok and Trick XD for all the help.

Cheers,

GK

[trick_xd]

it will still need a few " tweaks " every now and again as the converter will be set in its way and your trying to change it.... some times even tho you turn the screws on the converter it might take some time for it to adjust right .

but turning the power valve will effect it straight away .

[GK]

Just got a sports 2.5 system and hi-flow cat installed. The car ran rubbish so now I've got to start from scratch again. The cat and middle muffler were stuffed so that must have been affecting all that I was doing gas tuning wise anyway!

I'll keep you posted.

GK

[xr8driver]

fallacy number 1 the stepper motor/ adjuster is there to restrict gas flow NOT it is there to control the size of the pressure pulse, read feedback being sent up the hose to the diaphragm of the converter. Hence you can screw it in and it will lean the gas out linearly until you reach high revs or high load at which time the engine will lean off and choke the optimal adjustment is open enough to allow the largest pressure pulse without making the diameter to large and hence setting a false rich situation. If you screw it in to far it will restrict gas flow in such the same way as sticking a marble in the pipe will. The latest computer controlled closed loop systems don't have the manual adjustment because the stepper motor is more precisely controlled.

[GK]

Well the whole thing was playing up again, that I decided to take it to a gas mechanic. He couldn't get the wide open throttle setting PLUS the cruise/economy settings right. It was one or the other.

So we fitted a new converter to see if it was better; it was but not quite right. Removed the power valve, put the stepper motor back on Voila, great throttle response and power everywhere.

All sorted.

GK