Best falcon model suitable for a race car?? - Page 2

4Vman · 05-10-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

^^LOL...saw that when googling, so depressing.

Just a quick question, and I am sure there is a perfectly good reason. Why dont more people race utes?

I went for a drive in the XD just before, and it would be something different in a Targa event. Too light in the rear? Im sure you could move some stuff around or even add some weight to balance it out.

Probably because utes are for hauling tools and building materials around in, not racing!

**Polyal** · 05-10-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Probably because utes are for hauling tools and building materials around in, not racing!

True, but in the dry my ute easily out handles alot of cars (lowered, springs, shocks done). Dont talk to me about the wet though, tippy toeing around the place.

But seriously, Brutes?

4Vman · 05-10-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

True, but in the dry my ute easily out handles alot of cars (lowered, springs, shocks done). Dont talk to me about the wet though, tippy toeing around the place.

But seriously, Brutes?

I know they race utes.. id say a sedan would be easier to set-up, especially for chassis rigidity, plus sedans just look allot better as a race car...

irlewy86 · 05-10-2007, 01:41 PM

If you were going to set up a ute for racing.... you would drop a jet turbine in th back

rigs · 05-10-2007, 01:52 PM

:evil3:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-119896242.htm

**Polyal** · 05-10-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rigs

:evil3:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-119896242.htm

That proves how insane the folk over in NZ are; simply awesome.

**Peuty** · 05-10-2007, 02:03 PM

Ahhhh Kiwi's, you gotta love 'em....

Ruger · 05-10-2007, 02:09 PM

EB/D XR light would probably be stiffer and better designed than an xd/xe geometry wise
AU XR with IRS gets my next vote.

Remember best race car i think a lot of people are voting on behalf of their sentimental attachments

RavenLS1 · 05-10-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTENVY

Hey guys,

Just looking at my options for my next ford. The next falcon I buy I will be setting it up for targa class competition for track days. The falcon must be a V8, obviously manual. I am not looking a BA-BF, must be pre 2002 model.

Fire away with the opinions.

I reckon your sprint would work good on the track.

fullysik.com · 05-10-2007, 06:03 PM

Or you could build one of these

Trevor 57 · 05-10-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

^^LOL...saw that when googling, so depressing.

Just a quick question, and I am sure there is a perfectly good reason. Why dont more people race utes?

I went for a drive in the XD just before, and it would be something different in a Targa event. Too light in the rear? Im sure you could move some stuff around or even add some weight to balance it out.

We used to race an XD Ute, I am surprised you haven't seen pics of it on here.

The reason for the change to an XE - simple, with exactly the same motor, gerbox and same diff spec, with the same tyres we are 8-9 seconds a lap quicker in the sedan. Utes are just too heavy and the wieght of them is in all the wrong places.

XR6_190 · 05-10-2007, 06:52 PM

Do yourself a favour and don't use anything too old, If you crash it that will be harder to bear than crashing an AU or something (IMHO) An AuIII XR8 would be a good launching platform can pick up a decent one for under 20K and only needs relatively minor improvement.
Of course that's just my opinion, what it will boil down to is your opinion

Jock260 · 05-10-2007, 07:04 PM

Another for XD/XE, XE does have rear coils and will handle better if you put in a beafier set-up.

jakkes · 05-10-2007, 09:06 PM

XD would be a better choice than the XE due to the XD's better rear suspension.

what the?? i think you worded that wrong xe rear suspension is 50% better then xd xe= 4link/control arm + watts linkage

every falcon from xe to el use this same basic design so setting up the rear end wont be that hard any diff specialist can relocate some brackets on the late model stuff to suit the xe easier to find parts for the later model too
more ready available diff ratios/ rear disk brakes/ 28 spline axles ect.

xd=leaf spring

i would go xe there one of those cars that shrink around you like a good car should and there easy to see out of

outback_ute · 05-10-2007, 09:53 PM

As some have already said, get the regs of the events you want to enter and look at what you can and can't do to the car. Eg jakkes' post above mentions relocating suspension pickup points, which xbgs351 alluded to earlier. Depends if you want to compete or be competitive.

Main cars to make a case for in my opinion would be an XR/XT (eg like Grnkpr's car), and XD (or XE) as mentioned - light, cheap, handle better than the older cars & good simple & tough, or AU2 - handles far better, can upgrade brakes (can't on EA-AU1 as easily)

GTENVY · 05-10-2007, 10:02 PM

Thanks guys, seems most people think the way to go would be the XD/XE. Don't really want to go down the AU road to be honest, still big dollars for what they are, the $20k I spend on an AU II I could buy an EB XR8 for $6-$8k or XD/XE for say $2K and spend the rest on the car. I have contacted CAMS already and they aren't real helpful to be honest - typical really.

I'm going to have a chat to the Octagon office - see if they are more helpful.

fullysik.com · 05-10-2007, 11:13 PM

GTENVY, Might be a bit of a killjoy here but I don't know that you have really thought about how much a "targa" car is going to cost, Like I said earlier, do you have a budget that you are willing to throw at this thing, cause as many have said before "see that hole in the bonnet, just keep throwing folding stuff in there"

JAYBA · 05-10-2007, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbgs351

XD would be a better choice than the XE due to the XD's better rear suspension.

By the way, just because a Falcon is raced, does not make it a race car. It would be a touring car or rally car.

what?...other way around mate

the xd has trailer suspension

another vote xe for me
it has good suspension handles well and weighs aprox 1400kg with a clevo,
much lighter than the newer cars and a cheaper starting point as ofcourse all the stock drivetrain/suspension is gonna be modified anyway.
my xe(lowered, shocks springs nolathane bushes + swaybars handles great and has great feel leaves my baxr for dead on a twisty road

4Vman · 06-10-2007, 08:12 AM

In Group C format the XE only handled better than the XD because of the significant amount of work put into modifying the whole rear mount system: watts link, upper and lower control arms, Dick Johnson developed his own 3 link rear end to overcome the problems the standard system presented.... from a "stock class rule" or budget perspective the XD presents a simpler easier to work with format.

GTENVY · 06-10-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullysik.com

GTENVY, Might be a bit of a killjoy here but I don't know that you have really thought about how much a "targa" car is going to cost, Like I said earlier, do you have a budget that you are willing to throw at this thing, cause as many have said before "see that hole in the bonnet, just keep throwing folding stuff in there"

I am looking at competing in targa class at both baskerville raceway and symmons plains. I am not looking at entering into Targa Tas etc.

Therefore I am not looking at a $60K car, I am looking for someting to compete in to start with and improve it within the class rules over the next 12 to 18 months, sorry if I gave you an incorrect impression of the type of racing I am looking at

:

xbgs351 · 07-10-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAYBA

what?...other way around mate

the xd has trailer suspension

another vote xe for me
it has good suspension handles well and weighs aprox 1400kg with a clevo,
much lighter than the newer cars and a cheaper starting point as ofcourse all the stock drivetrain/suspension is gonna be modified anyway.
my xe(lowered, shocks springs nolathane bushes + swaybars handles great and has great feel leaves my baxr for dead on a twisty road

No, the XD has superior rear suspension to the XE. The upper trailing arms on the XE are way too short. This causes problems if a wheel hits a bump or with body roll as the short arc pulls the wheel forward and makes the rear of the car steer. If you read articles of the period when the XE Falcon was first raced you will see that most drivers parked there cars and refused to race them as they had such evil handling. If you look under a Group C XE Falcon, it's not uncommon to see leaf springs. Those cars that are running trailing arms are nothing like a standard XE Falcon. Dick Johnson's XE Falcon is a good example of this and recently there was a good write up about it in Australian Musclecar.

The lower weight of a XE compared to newer porkier Falcons is definitely a good thing, but describing the front suspension on an XE Falcon or any X-series Falcon for that matter as good takes a fair stretch of the imagination. In reality it's awfull. This is not to say that it can't be made to work reasonably well with some simple modifications.

AEF_Silver94 · 07-10-2007, 07:42 PM

Au Ii Te50 !!!!!!

gngtho · 07-10-2007, 10:48 PM

XE has my vote............

Trevor 57 · 08-10-2007, 07:07 AM

Just remember this bloke wants to compete in Targa's, not win Bathurst for gods sake, the XE is a great car for what he wants to do with it.

xbgs351 · 08-10-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

Just remember this bloke wants to compete in Targa's, not win Bathurst for gods sake, the XE is a great car for what he wants to do with it.

All I am saying is that the XD is probably a better choice than the XE, as far as the rear suspension goes. Very few people know this, and this has been demonstrated numerous times in this thread.

Another thing going for the XD is that it doesn't need a modified 9" like a XE does, as the XA-XC 9" is a bolt in item for an XD.

Rodp · 08-10-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rigs

:evil3:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-119896242.htm

A mussel car?!

Trevor 57 · 08-10-2007, 01:26 PM

Why would you run a 9", stick with simple and cheap is my advice.

Trevor 57 · 08-10-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

A mussel car?!

Yeah, it is the salt water version, none of that fresh water stuff here

:

4Vman · 08-10-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

Why would you run a 9", stick with simple and cheap is my advice.

I wouldnt contemplate running a circuit or targa style Falcon without an LSD 9"...
9"'s are relatively cheap to install in an XD, the "savings" made by running a stock BW rear would be consumed in the first "bang".... not to mention drivability improvements of a well set-up 9" LSD.

**Polyal** · 08-10-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I wouldnt contemplate running a circuit or targa style Falcon without an LSD 9"...
9"'s are relatively cheap to install in an XD, the "savings" made by running a stock BW rear would be consumed in the first "bang".... not to mention drivability improvements of a well set-up 9" LSD.

I concur!

Mines great, weak link I have at the moment is the single rail :/

Big_trev, any pics of that racing ute?