RACV push for P-Plate passenger restrictions - Page 2

**Polyal** · 23-10-2007, 03:41 PM

Yawn @ boring threads about nothing.

Laws change to suit the current condition. Did you seriously expect things to stay the same. As above, its for a couple of years, get over it. Dont drive like a tool and you wont have any problems.

Heres some free advice, there is a time and a place for everything.

XCSEDAN · 23-10-2007, 03:46 PM

yeah that's a fair comment, but when your 18-21 thats when you go out the most right?, so it makes it annoying when your trying to do things, and can't because it means your gunna get caught.

i can understand certain rules (like the old P-plate rules, i always thought they were fair) but it seems in recent times with the labour government, they are making a lot of dumb decisions to do with younger people on the road, and really not working out what's going to work, more just trying to make themselves "look" like they're fixing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I was a P Plater once too.. We all live by different rules and regulations every day of our life, i dont sook about it, i just get on with it.
If you've just got your licence (P plater) its not like you know any different anyway in terms of driving freedoms.... and at the end of 3 years you get to upgrade, you'll live!

xf pano · 23-10-2007, 04:15 PM

Im a 17 year old P plater from queensland, we've got the same 1 passenger after 11 thing up here and its bullshit. All we do is pull the p plates off and do it anyway. I pay the same rego and more insurance than someone with an open license, but yet im not allowed to have a V8, or carry passengers after 11. What a load of bullshit. Maybe i should refuse to pay rego, insurance or renew my license unless im allowed to "get my moneys worth". Unfortuneatley unless every P plater did it i'de achieve nothing other than getting a stack of fines.

Kryton · 23-10-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XCSEDAN

but it seems in recent times with the labour government, they are making a lot of dumb decisions to do with younger people on the road

i think you might find there has been a lot of younger people doing dumb things on the road so the government has stepped in to try and control the situation.
i really dont get what you are all whinging about.
you cant drive and use a mobile phone: good, pay attention to the road.
you have passenger restrictions: one dipshit driver loses control and smashes into a tree killing all the occupants, id rather see just 2 dead people than 5.
you cant drive V8s or Turbo/Supercharged cars: learn to control something less powerful first. even that seems too hard for some.

at the end of the day, treat the laws like they dont apply to you, you will just have more harsher laws put in front of you.
you all know why these laws have been brought in dont you?
it has been shown/proven over numerous years that a certain age group think they are invincible and CONTINUE to drive around like they are the only ones on the road.

i personally could care less if you want to go 200kmh and hit a tree, go right ahead. just dont expect to put OTHER road users at risk and not suffer the consequences.

nugget378 · 23-10-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geohatrick

go put p-plates on your car for a month and abide by all the rules that p platers have to and see how you like it... then do it for 3years.

I do it all the time,my O/H is on her red P's and half the time I CBF taking them off,and guess what,I NEVER get pulled over,and I very rarely sit on the speed limit,maybe there is something about your driving you just arent seeing?
I certainly see poor/aggressive driving from P platers almost daily.
You get pulled over for a reason,like it or not..

4Vman · 23-10-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

I do it all the time,my O/H is on her red P's and half the time I CBF taking them off,and guess what,I NEVER get pulled over,and I very rarely sit on the speed limit,maybe there is something about your driving you just arent seeing?
I certainly see poor/aggressive driving from P platers almost daily.
You get pulled over for a reason,like it or not..

People get pulled over for 2 reasons, both have remarkably different outcomes.. you'll get pulled over either as a random check (rare) usual outcome: a pleasant chat then you drive away..., the other reason is to address the fact that you or your car has broken the law...
I'll back it in 99 times out of 100 the later applies to why P Platers get pulled over.
FFS people if you havent done anything wrong or broken the law you don't have anything to worry about, and could probably drive around for 10 years displaying P plates without ever being pulled over..
Even if you do get randomly pulled over for a chat you've got nothing to worry about!!!

stiddy · 23-10-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayeyew

Yeh, it is pretty restrictive.. Especially 3 goddamn years of it!!

But seriously, they do not crack down on P-Platers enough on the road.. I have been pulled over once since i got my P's in January and that was because i was along side a police car at a set of lights, drinking a coffee and he thought it was alcohol, otherwise he wouldn't have pulled me over, lol..

They can make all the rules in the world, but until they make an example of a few people in a short period of time (Massive fines, jail time etc... and report it) people will still do what they want to do.

Get the cops to pull P-Platers over randomly.. i could care less if i feel like they 'target' P-Platers, cuz i know i do the right thing. Majority of the time, it's the people who don't do the right thing that complain about being 'targeted'.

Make them think ", i might get pulled over by cops before i do this..." so they don't do the stupid in the first place rather than penalising the ones who do the right thing..

Geez I hope your not serious.
I dont take myself or things too seriously, who gives a toss?
It's a lesson id love to shove down the throats of a few newspaper columnists, radio commentators and most mainstream politicians, all of who take themselves way too seriously and appear to clearly have forgotten what it was like to be young and fancy free (ALOT LIKE SOME OF YOU IN THIS THREAD).
Im jack of governments, police and forum go-er's treating teenagers and P platers like criminals for just being exactly that, Teenagers and P platers.
The young iron maiden who turns his/her car stereo up too loud and cops two points and a big on the spot fine. THe young bloke who drops a little skid off the lights and gets his car impounded. The hardened crim who fits a non-standard air cleaner to his second hand Ford Laser and cops an EPA fine big enough to feed his young family for a month. Its madness.
The reason that young people are targeted is that they are an easy mark and bullies always go for easy marks. P platers are less experienced in the ways of the world and therefore more likely to inadvertently stuff up. They generally have no idea of their rights under the law, nor the resources to fight back when those rights are denied them, their sheer energy and exuberance for life scares fraile old people (again like some in this thread) who ring up talk back radio programs and so encourage self-appointed 'community leaders' to pressure weak, populist politicians to 'do something about it'. IE the bullsh!t band-aid knee jerk reactions we see now.
Its pretty much the same for any minority, of course. Come from a non-anglo racial background, as many street machiners do, throw in a love for modified cars and a healthy disdain for authority, which many street machiners share, and its a wonder that lots of our younger people/ P platers make it to work and back each day.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and the late model high-tech guys are copping just as much flak from the wallopers and their partners in crime as us, maybe even more given their comparative youth. Lets show eachother some respect and see what happens.
Its worth a try.... Eh?

4Vman · 23-10-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiddy

Geez I hope your not serious.
I dont take myself or things too seriously, who gives a toss?
It's a lesson id love to shove down the throats of a few newspaper columnists, radio commentators and most mainstream politicians, all of who take themselves way too seriously and appear to clearly have forgotten what it was like to be young and fancy free (ALOT LIKE SOME OF YOU IN THIS THREAD).

Im sure the mother, father, brother or sister of a loved one killed while some "young and fancy free iron maiden" exercising their freedom ploughed their car into or crashed the car their loved one was a passenger in would see the world in a slightly different more serious way than you..... in sure they "give a toss"..

nugget378 · 23-10-2007, 05:10 PM

Stiddy,
I do know what you mean,and I do think we are way over regulated,personally I would do away with half the laws and regulations we have,
punishment should be after you commit a crime,not because you MIGHT.
But I just dont see that displaying a P plate makes you a target to being pulled over/harassed/whatever,like I said my GF has P's and she hasnt been pulled over once,either have i while they have been on..

But I have been reamed royally for being out and about in a certain suburb that starts with a "W" on a friday/saturday night :P

stiddy · 23-10-2007, 05:24 PM

Been there and done that to nugget, same suburb to lol. I hardly got touched on my P's, Ive actually been in more trouble with the law since ive been off P's.

4Vman you are way over accessing what was said. Although an exposed airfilter on a high-powered car may suck in small children??

ayeyew · 23-10-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiddy

Geez I hope your not serious.
I dont take myself or things too seriously, who gives a toss?
It's a lesson id love to shove down the throats of a few newspaper columnists, radio commentators and most mainstream politicians, all of who take themselves way too seriously and appear to clearly have forgotten what it was like to be young and fancy free (ALOT LIKE SOME OF YOU IN THIS THREAD).
Im jack of governments, police and forum go-er's treating teenagers and P platers like criminals for just being exactly that, Teenagers and P platers.
The young iron maiden who turns his/her car stereo up too loud and cops two points and a big on the spot fine. THe young bloke who drops a little skid off the lights and gets his car impounded. The hardened crim who fits a non-standard air cleaner to his second hand Ford Laser and cops an EPA fine big enough to feed his young family for a month. Its madness.
The reason that young people are targeted is that they are an easy mark and bullies always go for easy marks. P platers are less experienced in the ways of the world and therefore more likely to inadvertently stuff up. They generally have no idea of their rights under the law, nor the resources to fight back when those rights are denied them, their sheer energy and exuberance for life scares fraile old people (again like some in this thread) who ring up talk back radio programs and so encourage self-appointed 'community leaders' to pressure weak, populist politicians to 'do something about it'. IE the bullsh!t band-aid knee jerk reactions we see now.
Its pretty much the same for any minority, of course. Come from a non-anglo racial background, as many street machiners do, throw in a love for modified cars and a healthy disdain for authority, which many street machiners share, and its a wonder that lots of our younger people/ P platers make it to work and back each day.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and the late model high-tech guys are copping just as much flak from the wallopers and their partners in crime as us, maybe even more given their comparative youth. Lets show eachother some respect and see what happens.
Its worth a try.... Eh?

Not dissing you mate, but it's people with your kind of attitude who are behind the reasoning of making these new laws

Not giving a toss? Geez...

I would not want any member of my family riding with a person with that kind of attitude.

Driving wrecklessly has nothing to do with being young and fancy free.. It's got to do with a level of maturity about the way you go about ur business.. Being young does not automatically mean you are immature, as being immature does not automatically mean you are young.

If anything i would like to see police enforce the rules more, as long as they keep it consistent. I am of ethnic origin, i look like a mean bastard (when i dont smile), i have black hair, i have a goatee, If i dont shave for a few days i look like a terrorist, im a big guy.. But yet, i still don't get pulled over (except once).. I suggest that you stop saying police target people on a basis of race or appearance, because in the majority of cases that is bs. Police target people (most of the time) because they disobey the laws, it's not their fault that the ones that choose to do it are (in the majority of cases) of ethnic origin

*cough* asian *cough* lebo

Im not bagging out anyone, i got lebo mates with gemini's, a lebo mate with a VK brocky, i got an indian mate with 2 rx3's, i got an asian mate with a supra, an indian mate with a skyline, croatian mate with an audi a4 turbo, more croatian mates with hotted up holdens, etc.. etc...

I could go on and on, but i think i have made my point.

I agree with you calling the current reaction bs and bandaid's, cuz they are. What i'm saying is that instead of creating new laws which affect everyone, including those that do the right thing.. Why not keep the current laws and actually enforce them? All i see is a lot of talking by the politicians, but the police force just don't enforce the rules.

The rules are only as strong as the weakest link.. For example, i'm a school teacher. If our school policy was to have no ipods and the teachers weren't enforcing the rule, then wtf is the point of having the rule?

Van D · 23-10-2007, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I was a P Plater once too.. We all live by different rules and regulations every day of our life, i dont sook about it, i just get on with it.
If you've just got your licence (P plater) its not like you know any different anyway in terms of driving freedoms.... and at the end of 3 years you get to upgrade, you'll live!

Honestly though, majority of P platers are 18-21/22. This is the time where you go out with mates on the weekend and have the one or two dezzo's looking after em and get them home safely.

Most people after that age start to go out less, have 'better' things to do or can have a drink then drive anyway.

I'm sure when you were young you didn't have these strict laws, nor did you abide them 100% or have as strict punishment. Dad tells me all the time about when he was young and doing stupid things, only to be pulled over by the local cop and just have a chat/warning.

Van D · 23-10-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Laws change to suit the current condition. Did you seriously expect things to stay the same. As above, its for a couple of years, get over it. Dont drive like a tool and you wont have any problems.

Since when was this thread about driving like a tool?

It's about not being able to take mates around. I have no idea if the new laws will be after 11pm or not, but if they aren't it's even worse.

Here's a thought. I'm in a band. We jam/prac on sundays. There's 5 of us. So, now instead of taking one car with the 5 of us down the street, we'd have to take 3. On a Sunday.. right when all the hoons are out and about drinking

:

That's real clever.

Here's another one. I often go to see my grandma in a nursing home. I often take mum/dad or a friend of mine who likes to visit. We then take grandma out to the shops to get some time out of the place. Now we'd have to take two cars?

One more as a friend just mentioned this to me.. Guess what's coming up, Schoolies! Yeah, instead of two or 3 cars full of P platers which makes the roads bad enough, lets take 5+ per house!

Oh, and if the laws are for the current condition, they have NO idea on the condition and ideas of current P platers then.

4Vman · 23-10-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van D

Honestly though, majority of P platers are 18-21/22. This is the time where you go out with mates on the weekend and have the one or two dezzo's looking after em and get them home safely.

Most people after that age start to go out less, have 'better' things to do or can have a drink then drive anyway.

I'm sure when you were young you didn't have these strict laws, nor did you abide them 100% or have as strict punishment. Dad tells me all the time about when he was young and doing stupid things, only to be pulled over by the local cop and just have a chat/warning.

My memories of being a designated driver arent all that great... you're sobber and its 3am with 4 of you p!ssed mates in the car carrying on, play fighting, pulling the hand brake on, covering your eyes.. etc while you're attempting to get them home safely.. it wasnt till we all reached mid 20's that things calmed down..
In the end getting a cab seemed like a safer option.
Weather you want to admit it or not i bet there's alot more than a couple of people on here who can relate to being a "designated "driver with intoxicated passangers....

Van D · 23-10-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

you have passenger restrictions: one dipshit driver loses control and smashes into a tree killing all the occupants, id rather see just 2 dead people than 5.
you cant drive V8s or Turbo/Supercharged cars: learn to control something less powerful first. even that seems too hard for some.

i personally could care less if you want to go 200kmh and hit a tree, go right ahead. just dont expect to put OTHER road users at risk and not suffer the consequences.

Great post :togo:

Not every P plater with 5 people in the car is a dipshit, nor wants to drive like one. Just because there's more than two people in the car or that we have P's on it, doesn't mean we want to drive 200k's into a tree either.

And hey, the no turbo/V8's laws must be about our safety. After all, a 253 that's slower than grandmas corolla must be an instant killer. Not to mention the fact I could learn in a 351 powered ute, yet new P platers can't even drive a gutless thong slapper in an old HQ. They even know they screwed that one up. As soon as people started "errr'ing" about the 4-6 cylinder cars that could absolutely smash an old 8 they had to rush and make a list of other 'banned and highly dangerous' cars.

Shows how deeply they think things through.

irlewy86 · 23-10-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geohatrick

go put p-plates on your car for a month and abide by all the rules that p platers have to and see how you like it... then do it for 3years.

Did it, survived, unlike my Father who buried 3 friends. Learnt some valuable lessons.

But as I have already discovered, when it comes to cars and driving, 17 year olds are far more knowledgable and experienced.

Van D · 23-10-2007, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

My memories of being a designated driver arent all that great... you're sobber and its 3am with 4 of you p!ssed mates in the car carrying on, play fighting, pulling the hand brake on, covering your eyes.. etc while you're attempting to get them home safely.. it wasnt till we all reached mid 20's that things calmed down..
In the end getting a cab seemed like a safer option.
Weather you want to admit it or not i bet there's alot more than a couple of people on here who can relate to being a "designated "driver with intoxicated passangers....

That's what every desso goes through. It's better than 3 cars of desso's with drunks compared to one though. I've been desso many times, yeah it sucks when you're out, everyone knows that, but that's why you take it in turns with your mates and share it around.

I'd take a cab home every now and then. Except it costs $100 and the amount of female friends i've had sexually abused in cabs i'd prefer not to give them my money.

XR-351 · 23-10-2007, 06:43 PM

great point mate, i just started a new job i cant drive for another year so a mate i work with pics me and another guy up (who also doesnt have his licence) but with these new laws ill have no possible way of getting to my job, what do i do quit till next year...? i cant catch public transport from where i live and i work on new land usualy nothing around just paddocks...

thanks government for encouraging apprenticships pity i cant get to mine

the rules suck and arnt gonna make things better just make more people break the law by not showing P-Plates...

i agree with some new rules but i think having driving safety classes in school or something similar would save lots more lives

4Vman · 23-10-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van D

That's what every desso goes through. It's better than 3 cars of desso's with drunks compared to one though. I've been desso many times, yeah it sucks when you're out, everyone knows that, but that's why you take it in turns with your mates and share it around.

I think we're now homing in on why there is curfew and passenger restrictions.... We've all been in the car with drunk people, 1 is normally fine, its when you get a few together you'll get problems.. a group of young drunk passengers can be nearly as dangerous as a drunk driver.
Maybe.. just maybe the people assesing the accidents and setting these laws know this too....

uranium_death · 23-10-2007, 06:47 PM

Admittedly, my mates are not the sort that get totally smashed and cover my eyes while driving and pulling the handbrake. They know that there is a line you don't cross in the car. If you do, you walk home, regardless of where you are.

OJ_Pursuit · 23-10-2007, 06:50 PM

Well I'd like to throw in my 2c worth here and just mention something my old man told me when I first got taught how to drive.
"Remember... driving is a priviledge, not a right, respect the road and it will respect you"
Now I know that there may be a few P platers out there that might disagree with me here, but I drove on my P's with hardly ever 1 passenger so I cant see why its a problem... Would you rather whinge about being hard done by as you call it, or keep going to your mates funerals???
I think they should go a step further and introduce a zero tolerance for alcohol as well.

Elks · 23-10-2007, 07:15 PM

None of this applies to me. I've been off my P's for 20+ years but here goes..

:
These people are morons.

What do those with a young family do leave one parent or a kid(s) at home?

The RACV and the lawmakers need to think of road saftey in a hoilistic manner not knee jerk crap.

This cry came as a result of a tragic accident where a Corolla vered 30 meteres off a freeway and hit a tree. They couldn't blame the V8 or speed or alcohol or they would have.

We must do something. Or be seen to do something is the mentality.

Dumb just dumb.

:

stiddy · 23-10-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayeyew

Not dissing you mate, but it's people with your kind of attitude who are behind the reasoning of making these new laws

Not giving a toss? Geez...

I would not want any member of my family riding with a person with that kind of attitude.

Driving wrecklessly has nothing to do with being young and fancy free.. It's got to do with a level of maturity about the way you go about ur business.. Being young does not automatically mean you are immature, as being immature does not automatically mean you are young.

If anything i would like to see police enforce the rules more, as long as they keep it consistent. I am of ethnic origin, i look like a mean bastard (when i dont smile), i have black hair, i have a goatee, If i dont shave for a few days i look like a terrorist, im a big guy.. But yet, i still don't get pulled over (except once).. I suggest that you stop saying police target people on a basis of race or appearance, because in the majority of cases that is bs. Police target people (most of the time) because they disobey the laws, it's not their fault that the ones that choose to do it are (in the majority of cases) of ethnic origin

*cough* asian *cough* lebo

Im not bagging out anyone, i got lebo mates with gemini's, a lebo mate with a VK brocky, i got an indian mate with 2 rx3's, i got an asian mate with a supra, an indian mate with a skyline, croatian mate with an audi a4 turbo, more croatian mates with hotted up holdens, etc.. etc...

I could go on and on, but i think i have made my point.

I agree with you calling the current reaction bs and bandaid's, cuz they are. What i'm saying is that instead of creating new laws which affect everyone, including those that do the right thing.. Why not keep the current laws and actually enforce them? All i see is a lot of talking by the politicians, but the police force just don't enforce the rules.

The rules are only as strong as the weakest link.. For example, i'm a school teacher. If our school policy was to have no ipods and the teachers weren't enforcing the rule, then wtf is the point of having the rule?

Your still missing the point im getting at although you kind of said what I have?
Its not my attitude towards police or the road rules, my point was that they are getting a little bit carried away with these new rules. They arent thought out properly and the wrong things are being enforced.
Police today will close off a car park full of modified cars, albeit a Tuff 351 Xy or a lancer with canon neons and ironing board rear spoiler. They do this to defect these cars off the road, lots of harm 'loitering' with a few mates.
When 3 blocks away you have 200 cars doing insane speeds side by side in an industrial area after 11pm at night with 4x more cars because they cant carry passengers.
The focus in the right spots just is not there from politicians, police, government or the media.

I agree with what nugget said.
nugget378 said: I do know what you mean,and I do think we are way over regulated,personally I would do away with half the laws and regulations we have,
punishment should be after you commit a crime,not because you MIGHT

Van D · 23-10-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Maybe.. just maybe the people assesing the accidents and setting these laws know this too....

Maybe, maybe not. Dads been a firefighter for 25 odd years and seen many accidents. He thinks the laws are crap.

Also, if your mates respect you, they shouldn't do much to put everyone in the car at risk.

Elks · 23-10-2007, 08:13 PM

I forgot to add...

This crap gets through as a law as people who are about to become P platers can't vote. Remember these people when you can vote and be vocal about it. Vote against them and tell them why so they don't get confused with there natty new forrestry policy or some other stunt.

A P plater in Vic is now a 4 year exercise with limited rights and tighter policing than ever. That means 22 years old as a minimum before you can be considered responsible to drive? Get of the grass, by 22 they could be training as a surgeon but not drive!

Training people training

The old folk who run the show these days grew up without spped cameras or even .05 laws are just glad it's not them.

FPV8U · 23-10-2007, 09:53 PM

Why do people on here always state their opinion as fact...

Fact - Just last week i was in the back of a mate car blind drunk, with another mate, my girlfriend and her friend, none of us were telling him to hoon, none of us were asking anything silly besides "get us Home".

I think people need to install some will power into the sons and daughters to tell their mates to shut up or walk, instead of new laws to protects them.

uranium_death · 24-10-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myts

A P plater in Vic is now a 4 year exercise with limited rights and tighter policing than ever.

Still 3 years...the red plate (first year) and green plate (2nd-4th year) come in July 1st 2008.

I think a lot of 18 year olds are extremely immature and do not understand their responsibility to others as somebody who has to share the road with many people. That is the problem.

Some people grow up around cars and are taught by their parents to respect cars and to use them properly. People who grow up for a love of cars do doughnuts, burnouts and drag races...at proper tracks with controlled conditions as they are aware of the facilities.

I know that even at 23 (when I got my Ps -24 now), when I first got my license I had a rush of greater independence and freedom, but rationality kicked in and reminded me that driving is the most dangerous thing we do ordinarily. My parents are very conservative and even now still tell me to "drive safely" everytime I leave the house and take the car. The same goes for my brother who is three years my senior...drive safely.

It sounds sad, but parents need to drum responsibility into their children's minds from a young age. If people want to do burnouts etc, great, encourage it, but provided it is done in the right place, meaning not on the street.

As the driver, if you're aware of your responsibilities, if your friends tell you to hoon and muck about, stop the car and tell them to catch a taxi. That's what I would do. Thankfully, my friends are more experienced drivers than I and none like cars that much, so cars are merely a form of transport.

I am thankful I didn't get my Ps at 18 or I think I might have had a few problems. Despite thinking I was an adult, personally, I was still a little (although it may be argued that I am no different now).

uranium_death · 24-10-2007, 12:13 AM

Separately, on the Vicroads website where they state the new laws, there is a little clickover thing called "Control the V8" which shows the person riding it inevitably losing control and falling off...talk about propaganda.

4 cylinders can still fly.

In the "Getting your Ps" book, it said that Probationary licensed drivers do not have the experience to be as safe as fully licensed drivers, but somehow the assumption is that all P-platers are spazzes who hoon about.
6 cylinder Commodores are probably the most common sort of P-plate hoon on the road, so let's go for a minority...8 cylinders. Great...effective! Falcons are too involved, but Commodores more commonly (fact).

Thankfully, I'm under the P:W ratio, but I don't enjoy the negative connotations.

normxb · 24-10-2007, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Also means whenever a group of mates go to the pub the one who pick the short straw to be driver has to do 4 trips instead of one.
Do they Even really think about this rubbish before they put it out.
...

(I'm talking NSW here , been Law since June/July , I think )
I've been talking to my 18 y/o daughter about this , when they go out there's 23-24 of them . (small town)

Now they have to take up to 12 cars , where before they took around 5 . there was "Always " a Designated Driver (DD) for each car , so you have a sober driver .

Now if you get that many kids together , how are you going to stop 12 of them drinking to take the other 12 home . What's happened now is you get 3/4 of them "drink driving". Some live 20-30 k's out of town and each area had a DD for the night . They can't do that now , imagine one driver making 3-4 , 30k trips .

In the country it's a real "catch 22" situation .

I'm lucky , we live 3 blocks from the main street , and as her older sister used to do , she leaves her car at home & walks .

As pointed out earlier , driving is a privilege and I totally agree with this , but it makes it very hard for "the out of towners "

I think it needs a "lot more thought" and as said many other times " a lot more driver education " .

I've always told my girls "If you don't feel safe with a driver , say you're going to Spew Up" they soon stop , get out and ring me , no matter what time of night it is .

Norm

Squalo · 24-10-2007, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myts

That means 22 years old as a minimum before you can be considered responsible to drive? Get of the grass, by 22 they could be training as a surgeon but not drive!

Trainee surgeons aren't piloting 1.5 tonnes of weapon around unpredictable environments, complete with fellow youngsters who don't have a say in the outcome of a f$#&-up. Bad analogy. And you are considered responsible enough to drive at 16, so stop whinging. You just need to suck your ego in for a while and learn to understand that cars are not here as an extension of your personality, they are transport. Get a handle on that first, then go to town - it's not like you'll be dead before you get off your P's, right???

The more people there are on the roads, the tighter the controls must become - as much as I dislike it, and you guys dislike it, that's how it has to be. And although when I first started to drive there were quick cars available to us, the cars of today are so much faster that even experienced drivers can come unstuck in them.

I do agree that driver training (as opposed to the half-assed testing system we have today) is the answer, but it will cost a bomb, and no government is willing to risk the electoral annihiliation that introduction of costly driver training would bring. Look at motorcycle training - it's clearly helping to keep new riders alive, but each new rider parts with the best part of $300 to get their P-plate (it might even be more).

Perhaps the cash-grab that is personalised plate fees could subsidise driver training... oh hang on, I'm asleep again...