Mitsubishi 380: hanging in the balance

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by FORD3V

I believe lexus stands for luxury export u.s, because thats what toyota called them when they exported toyota's to america,before they came up with the second brand name lexus.

Incorrect, urban myth, do a wiki search on the Lexus brandname.

[Steffo]

I'm going to be a bit selective about what I reply to here... there are some, ahem, posts...

Originally Posted by Werd.

You're an idiot. How about you keep your biased opinions out of this thread and stop talking out of your ***.

Slow? Hate to break it to you, but do falcons run 14.5 stock??
Made like crap? Have you been inside one? obviously not, build quality is superior.

I'm surprised that your first line has been let go Mr. 51 posts, I thought this forum didn't tolerate direct abusive language from any member to any member, regardless?

Anyway, what were you saying about Falcons not running mid-14's stock?

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...rticleID=44733

Have a read of this. BFII Falcon XT. 14.593 @ 154.32km/h. 2.165 60'. Oops. Looks like they do run mid 14s stock, hey?

Build quality is superior to what? Falcon? Nope. Haven't seen many 700,000 - 1,000,000km old ex-cab Bitsarmissin Magnas or 380s. See Falcons like that all the time.

Originally Posted by Werd.

Shaky future? Not sure what you mean by warrenty? Do you mean its to good and bringing the company down by heaps of claims etc? Or are you saying that it isn't good enough? If it doesn't apply to your standards, what does?? Its a 5 year warrenty.

I'm saying that there's not much faith in a company's warranty when they may not even be around in the time period its guaranteed for.

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Build quality snots Holden and Ford; Folks have 98 Magna with 200,000klms not a solitary fault beyond maintance, even my AU has done a power steering pump. I just drove a 380 and cant fault its build quality- the interior scheme is a bit naff, but quality top notch

Well, I sit in an AUII Forte on a daily basis which currently has 449,000km on the clock and still going. Original engine, original gearbox and as you say, not a solitary fault beyond maintenance. The last one was an AU that went to 896,000km before being pensioned off. Yes, I'm talking about taxi's. I don't see many MMAL products in the industry. I wonder why?

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Slow- Nope- It will snot any previous last gen 6 cylinder sedan and will match an Omega/Berlina 6. Ford is of course the quickest and Aurion is an utter recalcitrant driver wheras the 380 is the best FWD ive driven

While not having driven a 380 yet, I have driven a variety of Magnas, ranging from the early 90s stuff (not the box shape, the bulbous one that replaced it), to the later TJs and TLs and have been left less then impressed. I have no doubts they drive better then Aurions though, my stint in Aurion's baby brother, 2007 Camry... in Altise and Sportivo form, was less then thrilling.

However they're by no margain a good FWD car. Try something like a Ford Fiesta Zetec/XR4, Renault Clio Sport, Peugeot 206 GTi, Volkswagen Golf GTI, Renault Megane Sport etc and then you'll know what a good FWD car is. In my personal opinion, big, heavy FWD sedans just don't work. I have no doubts that a 380 will out accelerate an EF-AUIII 157kW Six. BA+ it has no chance though. Probably would out-gun an Alloytec Commo though, what with the lack of torque and all. Though maybe not a manual SV6.

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Mistu future is about as secure as Fords and GM- Looked at their financial positions lately

I agree, Ford and GM aren't doing too well either. But they're still far bigger companies then Mitsubishi with more to, 'fall back on,' so to speak. For example, they haven't been bought and sold by one of the world's premier auto makers (Daimler-Benz) due to consistant failure. That alone raises an eyebrow or two.

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Nice troll mate, I'm sure it's getting the reaction that you wanted, but it's not really adding any value.

I don't know about wanted, but expected. I don't think posting my opinion after driving several Magna's is trolling. One has to wonder why people get all emotional about defending a boring, cheap, family sedan. Its not an exciting vehicle that gets the blood flowing. Its like arguing over refridgeraters or microwave's. "Mine's better then yours because its a bit quieter and can cook my dinner 2 seconds before yours."

Obviously the general concensus with the motoring and buying public is that these vehicles are no good, otherwise they wouldn't be in financial strife and people would be buying them. The sales figures win my argument for me. No one wants 380's. If they were this awesome, fast, intoxicating to drive, ultra well made car... they wouldn't be the worst seller, worst resale in their class and on the brink of shutting up shop, would they?

[Disciple]

Steffo, if you've never driven a 380, then don't comment on them. Persoanlly I've driven all the big 4 cars and the 380 is a very comparable drive.

[merlin]

The 380 is a good solid car, but I see 2 problems.

I think the main problem with the 380 is image - no one outside of a car enthusiasts forum knows what the hell a 380 is. It has no identity.

Secondly the car is not a good looker, it looks awkward and most cars are sold on looks.

It was the equivalent of Ford releasing an AU series 1 and calling it the 400.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Steffo

One has to wonder why people get all emotional about defending a boring, cheap, family sedan. Its not an exciting vehicle that gets the blood flowing. Its like arguing over refridgeraters or microwave's. "Mine's better then yours because its a bit quieter and can cook my dinner 2 seconds before yours."

But Steffo, that would be like you arguing over Falcon XTs, or a Falcon XT vs Falcon XT LPG.

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Well, I sit in an AUII Forte on a daily basis which currently has 449,000km on the clock and still going. Original engine, original gearbox and as you say, not a solitary fault beyond maintenance. The last one was an AU that went to 896,000km before being pensioned off. Yes, I'm talking about taxi's. I don't see many MMAL products in the industry. I wonder why?

Not 100% sure but isn't that because Ford offers taxi packs? and because its been proven to last, as why its the choice? Since the 380 hasnt been proven doesnt necessarily mean it isnt as relaible. I could be wrong, but isnt the reason why taxi's last long is because most of the time they're idling away without the continuous on and off that most people do.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I'm saying that there's not much faith in a company's warranty when they may not even be around in the time period its guaranteed for.

If Mitsubishi close down their manufacturing operation in Australia this does not mean that the import side of the business, nor the majority of its dealerships will be going anywhere.

All vehicles sold regardless of what happens behind the scenes will maintain their agreements/warranties until they expire.

Originally Posted by Steffo

Well, I sit in an AUII Forte on a daily basis which currently has 449,000km on the clock and still going. Original engine, original gearbox and as you say, not a solitary fault beyond maintenance. The last one was an AU that went to 896,000km before being pensioned off. Yes, I'm talking about taxi's. I don't see many MMAL products in the industry. I wonder why?

Might have something to do with the Fleet dealings between Taxi Directorate or whatever it's called and Ford or other such companies?

Originally Posted by Steffo

While not having driven a 380 yet, I have driven a variety of Magnas, ranging from the early 90s stuff (not the box shape, the bulbous one that replaced it), to the later TJs and TLs and have been left less then impressed. I have no doubts they drive better then Aurions though, my stint in Aurion's baby brother, 2007 Camry... in Altise and Sportivo form, was less then thrilling.

This would have to be the weakest thing you've said here.

Further below in your post you mention that the 380 would probably get out in front of the AU 6 but not the BA 6. Why is this? Is it because the cars are different? I suspect so. So in this case, why doesn't the 380 in your book get the justice to not be pegged as 'the same' as it's predecessor?

Furthermore... in relation to your Toyota comparo. I can't even get this one bit. Aurion's baby brother, perhaps as they share platforms and other such thing. Drive line? You're comparing a 114 (or is it 117kw?) 5 speed auto 4 cylinder sedan to a 204kw 6 speed sequential 6 cylinder sedan. How on earth does that work in basing what you might think about the feeling in driving the Aurion?

You have absolutely no merit in judging what a car may drive like if you clearly haven't experienced it.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by McobraR

Not 100% sure but isn't that because Ford offers taxi packs? and because its been proven to last, as why its the choice? Since the 380 hasnt been proven doesnt necessarily mean it isnt as relaible. I could be wrong, but isnt the reason why taxi's last long is because most of the time they're idling away without the continuous on and off that most people do.

The Ford Taxi Pack Falcons make up a very tiny percentage of taxi sales. Well over 90% of them are purchased second hand at ex-fleet and ex-Government auctions and convereted to LPG.

There is a longevity issue. I have seen the old Avalon 3.0, Magna 3.5 and Commodore 3.8 repetiadley try and fail as taxi's over and over. In fact, the Avalon fared worse then any of the other three. The Aussie 4.0 Six is simply more capable to put up with the conditions required for it, running poorly tuned LPG fuel systems, driven by abusive drivers who don't care and/or don't know better and maintained for as little money as possible.

Originally Posted by blackout

If Mitsubishi close down their manufacturing operation in Australia this does not mean that the import side of the business, nor the majority of its dealerships will be going anywhere.

All vehicles sold regardless of what happens behind the scenes will maintain their agreements/warranties until they expire.

That is true. However Mitsubishi Global isn't in the best position financially either.

Originally Posted by blackout

Might have something to do with the Fleet dealings between Taxi Directorate or whatever it's called and Ford or other such companies?

I can't comment for Victoria, but refer to my statement above which applies for NSW. Most cabs (over 90%) are purchased second hand at ex-fleet and ex-Government auctions. Ford has nothing to do with this. So they're not chosen as the vehicle that supports the industry because Ford offers some sort of incentive.

Originally Posted by blackout

This would have to be the weakest thing you've said here.

Further below in your post you mention that the 380 would probably get out in front of the AU 6 but not the BA 6. Why is this? Is it because the cars are different? I suspect so. So in this case, why doesn't the 380 in your book get the justice to not be pegged as 'the same' as it's predecessor?

Because the BA 6 is faster then the AU 6. Not very hard to work out. Your average Forte is about what, a 16 dead down the 1/4 at very best, with hte 157kW 357Nm SOHC 4.0. The BA's are in the high 14's with the 182kW 380Nm DOHC VCT 4.0. And if push comes to shove, the BA is still based on the original AU platform from 1998. It is still 'the same,' as its predecessors.

Originally Posted by blackout

Furthermore... in relation to your Toyota comparo. I can't even get this one bit. Aurion's baby brother, perhaps as they share platforms and other such thing. Drive line? You're comparing a 114 (or is it 117kw?) 5 speed auto 4 cylinder sedan to a 204kw 6 speed sequential 6 cylinder sedan. How on earth does that work in basing what you might think about the feeling in driving the Aurion?

If you pay attention to my post, I was agreeing that the 380 would be a better drive then an Aurion. And while the 117kW Camry with its 5-speed automatic has a vastly different engine to the 200kW V6 Aurion, which also has an automatic gearbox, not a sequential (look up BMW's SMG, VW's DSG, Porsche's PDK, Maserati's Cambiocorsa, Alfa Romeo's Selespeed, Lamborghini's E-Gear or Ferrari's F1 gearbox if you want to know what a sequential gearbox actually is)... however the Camry and Aurion are most of the same car underneath. The Aurion is built on an elongated Camry platform. They share things like steering systems for example. I never said either, that the Aurion is a bad drive, I said I have no doubts that it is and that the 380 is better. So don't try to put words in my mouth.

[Disciple]

I drive a 2002 Commodore for work (unsure on model) It has 340,000 kms on it, been serviced once in the last 70,000 kms and I drive the balls off it. You can hear it ping at the end of second gear, yet it won't die. I've seen 2nd gen Magnas (92-95) with over 400,000 kms on them, and 3rd gen (96-2005) with well over 300,000 kms and no dramas. So it's not just a Falcon thing, it's just that Ford has the deal with the taxi companies.

The Aurion is quite a nice drive. Obviously it's not a sports car, but it's very quiet, and very comfortable, and when provoked will embarass ALL large 6 cyl aussie cars from a roll. (except turbo varients, obviously.)

It's ignorant and insulting to others when you make comments on cars you haven't driven, and compare other cars because you've driven one "that's like it"

[feebs]

My assessment of 'life success' is..

Never having to own a mitsubishi.

BUt.. as there are lots of aussie jobs riding on it being built here, I was hoping it would do well.. AndI was dissapointed when I first saw it...

The 380 is not slow, but as there are not many poeple who drive one that are keen to give you a run anyway, but when they do (hypothetically of course:-), I sure they give a standard falcon a decent go.

Magnas have allways given the ba a decent go as they are much lighter,, they run well into the 14s with 155 front wheel kW... they are also hitting 3rd gear at 100km/h, compared to 160km/h in the 4sp auto falc.

They (380) didn't sell as well because the whole large car market has not done that well since they were released.. and they do not have the visual appeal that a falcon does (does not matter what anyone sais.. base model to base model.. they are bland). Standard falcons have not sold well into the private market either.

And.. as far as saying that cars are sold based on their visual appearance.. I think Toyota have disproved that, it is as if no one cares what they look like now... will be interesting to see how well the new Subaru sells given that they look like a DAEROOT now.

[winkle]

I've got a 2003 TL Magna ES, which I bought as a second family car in Feb 2006. It's very comfortable, reliable and reasonably economical (around 11.2 l/100 km). Everything works as it should, but the quality is just not there. Fabrics, plastics, switchgear are all cheap. I've done around 25000 km (mostly around town driving) in the time I've owned it and not a thing has gone wrong (as you'd expect). I chose a Magna because of it's reliability, and because it was cheap but well specced. I intend to hang on to it for around 10 years.

Having owned 5 falcons since 1992, all bought new, and now with a SY TX territory as the main family car, I can honestly say the the magna does not come close to the quality offered by oz built fords. I realise that the 380 is a completely different car, but thought these comments might add something to the thread. Cheers.

[MRJUCY]

It will be sad to see them go but I can't see them continuing.
I've had several Magnas for various reasons & honestly they were in no way ever good cars but I guess they could only do so much with the budget they had. There isn't too much wrong with the 380 but there is nothing too right about it either & no real reason to buy it over anything else apart from a long warranty.

[BAxtER]

steffo, you have no clue at all about mitsubishi's, my mates TJ magna sports 2003 model got a 14.9 up here at willowbank 2 weeks ago, In this heat thats pretty damn good.
Another thing, you say ex falcon cabs get up to a million kms, not after blowing head gaskets e series, transmissions AU..and DIFFS(ba).
I use 2 think magnas were crap, especially from seeing those Astron 2's but get into a TJ take it around the block..different scenario.
Now i dont know what an xr6 BF ute with a 6 speed manual and capa generic tune should be getting in times, but my mate of mines it couldnt match the TJ magna, if its life depended on it.

[XAGSV8]

Just have to add my 2 cents on the Magna/380 debate. In the last month I thought it was time to get a more reliable daily driver. I am a Ford man at heart and had an AU series one (1998) lined up for $5000. It had 160,000 on the clock and was in good condition. Just days out from purchasing it I drove past a car yard with a Magna (1997 but first sold in 98 with 152,000 kms) and some AU's in there. I pulled up to have a look at the AU's just to compare and never having really looked a magna I thought I would check it out. I ended up taking it for a test drive then offered $5000 cash (they wanted $7500) and drove it away and this is something I thought I would NEVER do. Keep in mind this is only a daily driver for my family so performance is not really an issue. Now compared to AU's or the same age I have driven here is my thoughts. Please keep in mind this is the only magna I have ever driven.

Chassis: Magna wins here. No little sqeaks or rattles and seems tight.

Build quality: Magna panel gaps are better and the whole car just seems to be finished better overall.

Interior: Better finish in the magna. Fold down rear seats a big plus in the falcon.

Exterior: Matter of opinion.

Ride: Magna slightly smoother but hard one to call.

Handling: Magna forces you to drive with caution around tight corners, it's handling sucks and you can tell which wheels are driving the car. Don't floor it in the rain. It is by no means dangerous just nowhere near as good as a falcon. Turning circle is not as good as the falcon. Big cars should not have FWD.

Engine: Magna wins down low by far but falcon has the grunt once it gets going. Falcon is the better for overtaking. Refinement goes to the magna engine. This is the 3 ltr v6 compared to 4 ltr inline 6.

The magna to me is for somebody looking for a car that is not white goods on wheels and not a performance car at the same time (if that makes sense). Just a reliable car that is comfortable. It did surprise me!!!

As for the future of Mitsubishi, it sucks but I can't see them lasting with cars built in Australia.

[smciner1]

Originally Posted by Gohan

i hate driving 380s due to i work at Mitsubishi and i have never seen an Full Manual 380 yet! all of them are the hybrid autos with manual mode but they do rip some mini burnouts (wet tyres)

380 line up as i have seen in the back shed GT, GTL, Sports, VRX and the VRX can have 17 inch rims but i think its an option on them anyways and those 17's look good on the 380

and yeh i do like them but just sick of driving them on my 3 days there and i get the chance to drive other cars there like Magna, Lancer, Pajero, Triton and other Mitsubishies cars

ohhh and trade ins

There are Manual 380s out there. One of the Members of this Forum has a Manual VR-X.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Disciple

So it's not just a Falcon thing, it's just that Ford has the deal with the taxi companies.

Do you know anything about the taxi industry? Do you realise that big taxi companies are mostly suppliers of a radio system for job bookings? Do you realise that most taxis on the road are operated by private owners who run their own 'base,' and own taxi plates and cars? Do you realise that over 90% of these people buy second hand ex-fleet cars from auctions and have absolutley zero dealings with Ford, Holden, Toyota or Mitsubishi? I've never even heard of this so-called 'deal,' with Ford that taxi companies apparantley have since my family got into this industry?

Originally Posted by BAxtER

steffo, you have no clue at all about mitsubishi's, my mates TJ magna sports 2003 model got a 14.9 up here at willowbank 2 weeks ago, In this heat thats pretty damn good.
Another thing, you say ex falcon cabs get up to a million kms, not after blowing head gaskets e series, transmissions AU..and DIFFS(ba).
I use 2 think magnas were crap, especially from seeing those Astron 2's but get into a TJ take it around the block..different scenario.
Now i dont know what an xr6 BF ute with a 6 speed manual and capa generic tune should be getting in times, but my mate of mines it couldnt match the TJ magna, if its life depended on it.

Well, if you follow the link I posted to the stock standard 190kW BFII XT's 14.593 @ 154km/h, there's a BF time for you. If your mate's ute can't keep up with a TJ, either the TJ isn't stock, something is wrong with the ute, or his driving.

I have driven a TJ. And I found it slow and boat-like. Just like every other locally made FWD or base-model (Forte, Executive etc) family sedan I've driven.

As for the diffs, gearboxes etc... like I said, the AUII I'm currently around is 450k old on original everything, and will soon be getting a 500k 'thourough lookover,' if you will. No problems yet.

Since there are some seeming Mitsubishi nuts on here... I seem to get the impression that the 380 would be worse around a track then a TJ/TL/TW Magna. They just look like they're softer and body-roll alot more, even the VR-X. Any Mitsu guys care to confirm?

[Type40]

Originally Posted by smciner1

There are Manual 380s out there. One of the Members of this Forum has a Manual VR-X.

Here is my manual VRX...

[BAxtER]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Well, if you follow the link I posted to the stock standard 190kW BFII XT's 14.593 @ 154km/h, there's a BF time for you. If your mate's ute can't keep up with a TJ, either the TJ isn't stock, something is wrong with the ute, or his driving.

I have driven a TJ. And I found it slow and boat-like. Just like every other locally made FWD or base-model (Forte, Executive etc) family sedan I've driven.

As for the diffs, gearboxes etc... like I said, the AUII I'm currently around is 450k old on original everything, and will soon be getting a 500k 'thourough lookover,' if you will. No problems yet.

Since there are some seeming Mitsubishi nuts on here... I seem to get the impression that the 380 would be worse around a track then a TJ/TL/TW Magna. They just look like they're softer and body-roll alot more, even the VR-X. Any Mitsu guys care to confirm?

Go on the b series site..You will see that not all b series vehicles run the same times as others. Just cause drive got 14.5 doesnt mean all bf 6 cylinders with the 6 speed auto happen to run 14.5.

Not saying all magnas or 380's are consistent as well, but you cant expect to post that up and make me believe if i buy a bf xt 6 speead auto it will run a 14.5

[XR666T]

Originally Posted by Steffo

You can only build unreliable heaps for so long before people stop buying them.

Lets see... 380...

From a company with a shaky future (warranty?)
Made like crap
Ugly
Slow
Inferior to all its direct competition

Selling bad? Gee, I wonder why....

I can't wait for all the Magnafanboys to start going "OMGZ They were a mad FWD sports car bro..." :

Steffo, I must pull you up on this.

The company certainly doesn't have a shaky future, it is the fastest growing brand in the country. The imported models (Lancer, Triton, Pajero etc.) are going strong. The only "doubts" remain with the locally built 380. Mitsubishi is a big company, they will be around for a long time.

Made like crap? I would disagree, they are certainly put together better than my BA was.

Ugly? Granted the base models are pretty lame looking, the VR-X and GT look great IMO.

Slow? LOL this one cracks me up the most! You obviously haven't driven one. They are VERY smooth and also VERY economical.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by XR666T

Steffo, I must pull you up on this.

The company certainly doesn't have a shaky future, it is the fastest growing brand in the country. The imported models (Lancer, Triton, Pajero etc.) are going strong. The only "doubts" remain with the locally built 380. Mitsubishi is a big company, they will be around for a long time.

Made like crap? I would disagree, they are certainly put together better than my BA was.

Ugly? Granted the base models are pretty lame looking, the VR-X and GT look great IMO.

Slow? LOL this one cracks me up the most! You obviously haven't driven one. They are VERY smooth and also VERY economical.

Look up Mitsubishi Global and their current financial status and proove to me they don't have a shaky future and I'll believe you.

Through my experience they're built like crap. I've yet to come accross a Mitsubishi of any variety - but in this instance a domestic one - that I've been able to look at and thing "what a well made car."

I think the 380 is horrible.

They are slow. Though it depends on your definition of slow and fast.

[XR666T]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Look up Mitsubishi Global and their current financial status and proove to me they don't have a shaky future and I'll believe you.

Through my experience they're built like crap. I've yet to come accross a Mitsubishi of any variety - but in this instance a domestic one - that I've been able to look at and thing "what a well made car."

I think the 380 is horrible.

They are slow. Though it depends on your definition of slow and fast.

Have you even had an up close look at a 380? It's easy to criticise from a distance. The fact you've never driven one demonstrates you should not be commenting on them. A 380 is a bit different to a TJ (completely different in fact). Not that this has been mentioned, but I wouldn't even bother comparing a 380 to any Commodore pre-VE, tinny pieces of crap.

Most people think AU Falcons are horrible. Nuff said.

I owned a BA and have driven MANY 380s. They are much more responsive. I own a modified S15 and have been in a 450awkw R33 GTR, so I know what fast feels like lol (not just straight line speed, handling as well).

I am not bagging out Falcons, my BA was great and I would buy another Falcon in the future... but I feel your comments on the 380, which you have never driven, are untrue and mainly based on hearsay.

[Type40]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Look up Mitsubishi Global and their current financial status and proove to me they don't have a shaky future and I'll believe you.

Through my experience they're built like crap. I've yet to come accross a Mitsubishi of any variety - but in this instance a domestic one - that I've been able to look at and thing "what a well made car."

I think the 380 is horrible.

They are slow. Though it depends on your definition of slow and fast.

I note you are a lover of LPG so you will by defintion know what slow is all about... You may think the 380 is horrible but thats your opinion and you are entitled to it... I don't and thats all that really counts doesn't it?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Type40

I note you are a lover of LPG so you will by defintion know what slow is all about... You may think the 380 is horrible but thats your opinion and you are entitled to it... I don't and thats all that really counts doesn't it?

What does LPG have to do with slow? If you're talking about my signature, its more a joke then anything else.

And hey, first sane post that's not going, "Oh my God, you hate the 380 and think the Falcon is better, you need to be burned at the stake."

I applaude you for that.

[Type40]

Originally Posted by Steffo

And hey, first sane post that's not going, "Oh my God, you hate the 380 and think the Falcon is better, you need to be burned at the stake."

I applaude you for that.

Thankyou!

You have to remember every car has its merits. What appeals to you may not to others. I know the 380 suits my driving style like my TF before it. I have driven numerous Falcons and i think they are a great drive but as much as i appreciate them they dont really "do" it for me... I must be in the minority however! :

[B-Series]

Originally Posted by Steffo

What does LPG have to do with slow? If you're talking about my signature, its more a joke then anything else.

And hey, first sane post that's not going, "Oh my God, you hate the 380 and think the Falcon is better, you need to be burned at the stake."

Maybe because everyone is sick of your biased opinions which have no credibility whatsoever? If you post crap on a consistent basis, then you need to be prepared to cop some flak.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by B-Series

Maybe because everyone is sick of your biased opinions which have no credibility whatsoever? If you post crap on a consistent basis, then you need to be prepared to cop some flak.

There's nothing biased or without truth to my opinion that Magna/380 are not good cars.

[B-Series]

Originally Posted by Steffo

There's nothing biased or without truth to my opinion that Magna/380 are not good cars.

They may be ugly and unexciting, but that doesn't mean that they unreliable and badly built.

[V3RSAC3]

major job losses in Adelaide is bad! means there will be even less jobs going for us who are looking :(

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by B-Series

They may be ugly and unexciting, but that doesn't mean that they unreliable and badly built.

Every single one I've ever dealt with has been, so why would I believe otherwise?

[B-Series]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Every single one I've ever dealt with has been, so why would I believe otherwise?

So 380s are unreliable and badly built based on the opinions of an unqualified, inexpert and biased boy?

Originally Posted by Steffo

There's nothing biased or without truth to my opinion that Magna/380 are not good cars.

So you are saying that you're unbiased against Mitsubishi? What about Toyota? Come on... who are you trying to kid? lol