An early Christmas present for Tom

[RATT]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Thats a cop out. My BA XR8's power steering pump was as noisey as hell, you could here it inside the house with it idling outside. I took it to the dealer for it to be fixed and as soon as I'd finished explaining the problem I got the they all do that, thats normal, we could change it for a new one but that wouldn't fix the problem as all of the pumps are noisey response. Tell me how the Ford Motor Company was responsible for that.

I ended up getting it fixed a few weeks later after I complained hard enough, and guess what, it was quite as a mouse with a new pump fitted.

Thats the type of dealer brush off i'm talking about, treating the customer like an idiot to avoid having to do the work. Thats purely a dealer problem, the Ford Motor Company is not responsible for that sort of pathetic service.

Remember, the power steering pump is built to Ford specs, and like I said, some dealers don't give a toss. So do what you did or go to another. But ultimately we don't want to do this either. Some don't want the work because they simply may be booked out or because there may be little in it for them. Either way it's not acceptable.

And I don't think it's a copout either. Have you ever tried getting a washing machine, microwave, DVD or TV fixed under warranty?

[RATT]

Originally Posted by Peuty

It's not that hard of a concept really. Try working in a well known electrical store where salespeople aren't split into departments. We had to know exactly what every product in that store was, what it did, how it did it.

It's not too much of an ask for a car salesman to know the insides out of maybe 15 different model variants.

Daniel

That is simplifying the issue.

There are 13 different Ford Ranger variants, 9 Transit (20 different options depending on which van), as you could imagine Falcon passenger and commercials have an extensive list of variants and options, as examples. Not easy at all.

[The_Ghost]

I'm looking for my third dealer Have been to Bendigo Ford (Mechanic stood toe to toe) Bayford Ford ( Replaced clutch after tellin me it was cactus)To find from a site sponsor here that cluth was fine (Now I have a spare : ).So my faith is NIL. But I nust be a glutton for punishment. Not to mention walkin round numerous dealers yards 3 times and making it back to the car when the salesman finally trys to approach.


I think once tom goes FoA new big wig should put a little more time and effort into its EXISTING customers. As these are the peolple that pay THIER bills all year round (Service,Spares)Not just once every few years :togo:


I know the dealers are seperate enties but ford needs to regain some control as it is still there product

[Peuty]

Originally Posted by RATT

That is simplifying the issue.

There are 13 different Ford Ranger variants, 9 Transit (20 different options depending on which van), as you could imagine Falcon passenger and commercials have an extensive list of variants and options, as examples. Not easy at all.

I'm not simplifying the issue at all.

All I am saying is that anyone with half a brain could and should learn and absorb what each and every vehicle has to offer.

It's not like salesman don't get any sales training to learn their products. And if they don't, then that stems back to what people are saying about slack DP's/Head office.

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by RATT

That is simplifying the issue.

There are 13 different Ford Ranger variants, 9 Transit (20 different options depending on which van), as you could imagine Falcon passenger and commercials have an extensive list of variants and options, as examples. Not easy at all.

Ratt thats their job mate we are talking thousands of salesman aust wide . the least they can do is read the brochure each time i buy a car im always seem to tell them what the car has . and serviceing dont get me started of my last half dozen cars all different brands they dont do the service properly .i dont jump up and down i just go elsewhere ,till someone does it right. and pass on the bad news to all i know. at the moment there is a big swing away from holdens, where i live cause of all the continuing probs and a very bad dealer . only the diehards as mr 4v states buy regardless of the twits you have to deal with. i think the thing is most people know these issues ,and just leave a brand cause they get treated better elsewhere. its not rocket science .just dont treat people like they are stupid .

[Decadentia]

Meh, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes with regards to Tom Gorman, but in my mind no one will compare with how Uncle Geoff conducted business. He was public - talked to his customers - listened to what they said and then gave them what they (re:we) wanted.

With regards to customer service and dealerships - My family have bought 4 new fords in the last 7 or 8 years, with 4 different dealerships, and there's not a one of them that I would do return business with.

While I understand that there is good and bad just like anything, there seems to be a fundamental flaw in the way dealerships undertake business, and being that the dealerships are Fords representation to the public/customers, there's little wonder opinion of the product and service continues to decline.

To the people who work in dealerships and have an association with the forum, While I've had no personal dealings with any of you, I'm sure you do your job to the best of your abilities - The unfortunate thing is that you represent a small percentage of the face of Ford in Australia, and as a result the bad experiences of the majority will nullify the positive experience of the relative minority that walk through your doors.

[RATT]

Ultimately there seems to me an issue from the coalface to the boardrooms at Broadmeadows. I don't see the point in argueing the point anymore.

I'm sure there are good people within Ford who are not yet able to influence what is going just yet, and there are plenty of good sales and service personnel at a dealership level nationally. It just seems that there may not be enough.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I wonder how many people have vowed to never buy a Ford again because of the pathetic service some people have received at some dealerships, especially when you need something fixed under warranty and you get the usual they all do that, or that's within spec or there's nothing we can do about it. Do they realize that if they continue to treat customers like idiots then less and less people will come through the doors, especially after a disgruntled purchaser has bagged Fords to ever person they come into contact with.

Too many!!!

I deal with lots of people and the amount that refuse to buy Fords again due to poor customers service (both dealership & ford CRC level) is VERY HIGH!

[jimmy_c]

I agree with you guys. The BA I have at the moment is the last Falcon I will buy, New or used. The headache started when I tried to buy one. New and Used. (Ford Dealerships)

Although the car is fine now. Having issues with it and other people seeing them but the service department not. Is a bit of a worry.

I have already decided the next car will be either a landcruiser 100 or an Aurion.

I know all things that are engineered have faults but jeeze.....


TO be honest I have been turned off Fords now and after being passionate for a long time. I am starting to think why I even bothered.

[FGII-XR6]

I worked for a ford dealer in the days of the EA EB and knew every product we sold back to front. it was rare that I had to look something up when I was asked a question. as a rookie ( had been selling fords 7 months) the GM enterered me into a product knowledge competioion and in the final round which was a beat the buzzer style I won beating vetrans with 20+ years experience. my point is a salesman can know all his product range and sell with enthusiasm even the "new kid on the block" can do it. before i started work at the dealership I went down and picked up brouchers of all models and studied them all, on my first day i had a reasonable product knowledge. so sorry if i have no tollerance for salesmen who know nothing but some take pride in doing a good job before during and after the sale

Originally Posted by Grum

I do agree 100%, but how can an enthusiast salesman who knows the inside and out of a BF Falcon/FPV turn around and sell a little old lady a focus? Then turn around and know everything about a Ranger?

I think I could walk into a dealership and sell a few Falcon/falcon utes in an afternoon but ask me about the smaller range and I wouldn't have a clue!

I'd like to see the larger dealerships broken up into 3 areas;
1. Falcon/Tezza's
2. Rangers/Utes/F trucks if they ever sell them again
3. Focus/Fiesta's/Mondeos

and each area has knowledable staff!

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Grum

I'd like to see the larger dealerships broken up into 3 areas;
1. Falcon/Tezza's
2. Rangers/Utes/F trucks if they ever sell them again
3. Focus/Fiesta's/Mondeos

and each area has knowledable staff!

I think SUVs would be better off being separated from the passenger cars, like the Falcon.. so perhaps Territory, Escape.. and whatever else they line up in the future.

F-Series
I doubt Australia will get F-trucks until the legal disputes between Ford and Navistar are over, and Ford have their own diesel engines in production.
The Ford Chihuhua Mexico engine plant (CEP) will be producing two diesel V8 engines for the F-series. A 4.4L V8 with around 245kw/720Nm and a 6.7L "Scorpion" V8 diesel with around 300+kw/950Nm. Even the smaller one should put the old faithful 7.3 to shame, and run with great economy. I am sure Ford Australia will get the F-series back when that happens.

[RATT]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

I worked for a ford dealer in the days of the EA EB and knew every product we sold back to front. it was rare that I had to look something up when I was asked a question. as a rookie ( had been selling fords 7 months) the GM enterered me into a product knowledge competioion and in the final round which was a beat the buzzer style I won beating vetrans with 20+ years experience. my point is a salesman can know all his product range and sell with enthusiasm even the "new kid on the block" can do it. before i started work at the dealership I went down and picked up brouchers of all models and studied them all, on my first day i had a reasonable product knowledge. so sorry if i have no tollerance for salesmen who know nothing but some take pride in doing a good job before during and after the sale

That's fantastic.

What were the best selling cars of the day? What Ford's did most Ford customers buy? Falcon of course! It made up somewhere around 60-70% of total Ford sales of the day. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Now fast forward to today.
Light and small cars make up a greater percentage of total sales, large has gone the other way. Ranger is doing really well, whereas Courier never did.
And not to mention that one of the most high tech things about EA and EB was the alloy head and the miracle of ABS.

Have a look at a spec sheet of a Falcon these days and you'll see what I mean. Then try and remember, Territory, Focus, Fiesta, Ranger, Escape, Transit.. Which ones have ABS, DSC? Can it be optioned? How many airbags? Power windows, reverse sensors etc. There are plenty more to talk about but I hope that explains the difficulty in knowing everything about every product.
It is not possible!

Another big factor in why there may be so many bad salespeople is that in NSW in particular, dealers are open all weekend. It's time away from the family, especially if it's a nice sunny day. So the good salespeople leave the industry and find a position that has them working Mon-Fri and maybe the odd Saturday.

[DJL351]

RATT, give up mate. Untill these CLOWNS have worked on the other side of the fence they will never understand.

I for one understand and agree with you 100%.

[Peuty]

Originally Posted by DJL351

Untill these CLOWNS have worked on the other side of the fence they will never understand.

I hope you're not calling me a clown.

How would you feel if you came into my shop and asked me about the ins and outs of latest oven on the market and I said to you, "I don't know, here is a brochure to read"?

I know I would walk right out the door to find somewhere else that gave a damn.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by Peuty

I hope you're not calling me a clown.

How would you feel if you came into my shop and asked me about the ins and outs of latest oven on the market and I said to you, "I don't know, here is a brochure to read"?

I know I would walk right out the door to find somewhere else that gave a damn.

And you'd know every detail for every model there? Prices on all of them too, plus what is and isn't a NCO or what can be optioned at the shop instead of having to be ordered from the factory, Colours, by name... etc

Oh as well as the model released on Monday (today being Thursday).

Because, going by what others have said in here (and other threads) if you don't know EVERYTHING, you know nothing.

[sarrge2001]

Actually, the salesperson doesn't have to know everything.........

I think what most customers want is a reasonable level of knowledge (and consulting spec sheets is OK), but most important is the salesperson seeming like they actually give a toss and being willing to listen to what we want........

I realise that is a lot to ask when we turn up in our CLOWN suits......... :

[Peuty]

Originally Posted by DJL351

And you'd know every detail for every model there? Prices on all of them too, plus what is and isn't a NCO or what can be optioned at the shop instead of having to be ordered from the factory, Colours, by name... etc

Oh as well as the model released on Monday (today being Thursday).

Because, going by what others have said in here (and other threads) if you don't know EVERYTHING, you know nothing.

Yep, I'd be confident to say that I do.

Also, if something is being released on Monday, we know about it well before Thursday.

At the end of the day, you're not going to agree with me, and I certainly won't agree with you, so lets stop wasting each others time arguing.

[ED Classic]

Agree dealers are disgraceful...I have 4 other makes of cars in my immediate family and their service and attitude leaves Ford dealers for dead and then some!!

[BAxtER]

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Agree dealers are disgraceful...I have 4 other makes of cars in my immediate family and their service and attitude leaves Ford dealers for dead and then some!!

agreed, i had an extended dealer warranty with my car when i bought it, was for 5years, and the rule was i was suppose to service it 6months/10,000kms with em, In jan i was suppose to service it but didnt go back, For what they charge me and the job they do...PFFFT never again. so i cut the warranty 2 years into it. Their work is very unproffesional, a mate of mine had a mk2xr6 and needed a new diff, under warranty they just rebuild the old one he had, 2 weeks later oil was pouring out of it.

I also later found out that the dealer from a mate who worked at the dealer for 18months said that when the BAmk2 models came out. One salesman crashed a new fairmont ghia mk2 side on with another car. The fairmont was fixed and sold off as a demo, and not informing the person purchasing the vehicle of what really happened. The damage was also very bad as it got hit by a truck side on at an intersection....some dealers need to be named and shamed, but then as a ford fan..i hate seeing ford sales perform badly.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by sarrge2001

most important is the salesperson seeming like they actually give a toss and being willing to listen to what we want........

THIS is the point that everyone arguing in here keeps missing! They dont have to kniow every product inside and out, just be helpful enough to provide the answer any way they can!

[RATT]

Originally Posted by The_Fantastic_Ford

THIS is the point that everyone arguing in here keeps missing! They dont have to kniow every product inside and out, just be helpful enough to provide the answer any way they can!

Thank you!!

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by sarrge2001

Actually, the salesperson doesn't have to know everything.........

I think what most customers want is a reasonable level of knowledge (and consulting spec sheets is OK), but most important is the salesperson seeming like they actually give a toss and being willing to listen to what we want........

I realise that is a lot to ask when we turn up in our CLOWN suits......... :

I don't disagree at all. but what is "reasonable"?

As Blue Bloods, there is a fair chance 80% of AFF members will know as much, if not more than the Service and Sales departments.

Now, is that their fault? In years gone by, before the interent really kicked off, you had only the dealer to supply information to you.
With websites such as this, users/clients/customers are able to find out everything and more.

I was once confronted by a customer, who had done his www.ford.com.au 'research', then came in to pick up the part.
Now, as far as I was told (from information supplied by Ford when the part was released) it would not fit the vehicle this customer owned.
Now, obviously, the internet said differently.

So, I looked like a fool. (not hard I know) Gave the customer the requested part at a discounted price, (a poor attempt to save face). But! In a twist, the customer returned the next day, as the part did not fit after all.

Originally Posted by Peuty

Yep, I'd be confident to say that I do.

Good. Good for you, if you do, there are not enough out there.

Originally Posted by Peuty

Also, if something is being released on Monday, we know about it well before Thursday.

How would you be notified? 9 times out of 10 I found out about new stuff through the customer, or by pure a$$.(searching through the Microcat Cataloge while it was quiet)

Originally Posted by Peuty

At the end of the day, you're not going to agree with me, and I certainly won't agree with you, so lets stop wasting each others time arguing.

I don't disagree at all. I fact I agree with 75% of what has been said.
However, having sat in the other seat, I know it is not as simple as it sounds.


Now, to throw another spanner in the works.
A very good mate of mine, works for a Dealer here in Perth. Knows the product back to front, sell cars and is liked by the customers.
The dealership is owned by a company and they have their fingers in every pie in WA. (most WA AFF members should know which one)

Because he was doing so well at dealership 'A', he was sent to dealership 'B' to lift their sales staff. Now, if it was the same brand, he would have been fine, but, in their wisdom, sent him to another brand. One he had little to no info on.
And, after 2 months of struggling and poor sales, sent him on to Dealership 'C'. (yet another brand)

He is still at dealership C, but is not the same person. Before he loved his job, an enjoyed all aspects of it. Now, he just turns up and does what is needed on the day. Where before, he would have gone the extra mile, he now does not.

[sarrge2001]

Originally Posted by DJL351

I don't disagree at all. but what is "reasonable"?

As a consumer, i find that the level of knowledge i would expect from a salesperson (and this isn't just Ford, or even just cars) is related to the attitude of the salesperson.

If their attitude shows I am just a drain on his day, or interrupting his chat with the receptionist, then he is going to have to work a lot harder to bring me onside.

You are always going to get the arrogant customer who knows everything - professional salespeople need to deal with it and move on to the next customer.

Ford need to have the product and the advertising to attract the customers to the dealers. The dealers need the staff who can effectively promote and sell the product to someone who has come into the showroom for a reason.

It's not all about product knowledge. It's about the whole package.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by sarrge2001

As a consumer, i find that the level of knowledge i would expect from a salesperson (and this isn't just Ford, or even just cars) is related to the attitude of the salesperson.

If their attitude shows I am just a drain on his day, or interrupting his chat with the receptionist, then he is going to have to work a lot harder to bring me onside.

You are always going to get the arrogant customer who knows everything - professional salespeople need to deal with it and move on to the next customer.

Ford need to have the product and the advertising to attract the customers to the dealers. The dealers need the staff who can effectively promote and sell the product to someone who has come into the showroom for a reason.

It's not all about product knowledge. It's about the whole package.

We continue to agree. - You are on the money with the above comments.

Ford need to have the product and the advertising to attract the customers to the dealers.

The dealers need the staff who can effectively promote and sell the product to someone who has come into the showroom for a reason.

As long as everyone understands the above quotes I'm happy.

But too often people point the blame at FoMoCo, when the issue/problem etc is dealer based.

[cycle myth]

Yes - but who has the responsibility of managing the Dealer franchise base?..........

[Ives]

Originally Posted by The_Fantastic_Ford

They dont have to kniow every product inside and out, just be helpful enough to provide the answer any way they can!

But if we're looking to buying a new car, don't we do our own research anyway? All the specs and infos are available from the websites.

[Fev]

definately not a shock to anyone dealers would be pi$$ed about the lack of any marketing.. when was the last time you saw an add for FPV? othere then those small adds for F6 R-specs the last good one i saw was back in 2003!!!

If i was one of those dealers i think i would make my own marketing campaigns for the area or get in league with other dealers and do some mass marketing..

[cycle myth]

Unfortunately Dealers do band together and do their own marketing... these are the low grade, unexciting, non traffic generating versions you see from time to time - with the ultimate goal of giving up their margins than promoting any real brand or or value substance.