The rising price (and associated costs) of Oil / Petrol Discussion Thread.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Asking the econmists, if the government was to drop the excise by let's say 5c/l what effect would this have on the economy? Would inflation rise, drop. Would there be any ill effects beside the government getting less money? I was reading in the age that the government was getting a nice profit with the cost of fuel rising?

It's a hard one.

Yes the state and federal governments make great amounts of revenue from taxes on fuel etc, but it's not like they put it in their back pockets either. We are lucky to have so many benefits and pretty decent conditions in Australia, and it's the high tax revenues, fuel revenues etc. that enable the government to have these policies in place. We aren't are huge population, so higher taxes seems to balance out that problem?

We are just in an inevitable situation where we are dealing with a commodity that is outstripped by supply issues, and is priced in a currency that is continually falling, which then has the opposite affect on the commodities price. Throw in the Futures market, wars etc etc, and it's not hard to understand how this is getting out of hand.

Also, LPG will be attracting an excise as of 2011? Something like that anyhow.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by ieatsports_cars

we should all install lpg then they will put up the tax on that we cant win with this government they are laughing at us iam sure they are! we may have it good compare to other countrys and we have it worse compare to other countrys in this petrol game, it is becoming a joke they are always finding new oil !!!

Always finding new oil???

Not near enough to kerb the rising the price and the declining output of our largest fields in Saudi, Mexico etc.

When was the last time a multi Billion+ barrel field was discovered? Not since the original ones in the 60's & 70's.

The high oil price however, makes existing undeveloped marginal fields, economic, so this in turn creates added investment and development, but there's still no real good news.

[TheSneakiness]

Last Thursday (I always for some reason am low on fuel on the worst day of the week) was my first $80 fill for 95, up some $5 a tank from the week previous.

What happened in a week to justify an extra $5 a tank???

Someone at OPEC fart or something and then said we need an extra $5 per tank per car??

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by ieatsports_cars

we should all install lpg then they will put up the tax on that we cant win with this government they are laughing at us iam sure they are!

That is what the Govt is doing - LPG will be subject to GST in 2008 & an LPG EXCISE will be phased in over the next three years.
The last Federal Govt announced this last year.

[chevypower]

Gosh I think all the alternatives are better than trying to convince ourselves sticking with oil is the way to go. Cellulosic Ethanol (though i am not entirely convinced this has no effect on the price of food), GTL diesel, CNG, Compressed Hydrogen, Electric, and H2 Fuel Cell. I am so buying a Chevy Volt when they come out!

[Daymoe]

One question related to oil in general, why is diesel more expensive compared to petrol? Isn't it less refined or something meaning it should be cheaper?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

It's a hard one.

Yes the state and federal governments make great amounts of revenue from taxes on fuel etc, but it's not like they put it in their back pockets either. We are lucky to have so many benefits and pretty decent conditions in Australia, and it's the high tax revenues, fuel revenues etc. that enable the government to have these policies in place. We aren't are huge population, so higher taxes seems to balance out that problem?

We are just in an inevitable situation where we are dealing with a commodity that is outstripped by supply issues, and is priced in a currency that is continually falling, which then has the opposite affect on the commodities price. Throw in the Futures market, wars etc etc, and it's not hard to understand how this is getting out of hand.

Also, LPG will be attracting an excise as of 2011? Something like that anyhow.

Yes but they are making more then they originally were. so technically it's extra money they have to play with. The question I'm asking will the drop in the excise effect the inflation problem we have in this country?

[omn1potent]

Oil prices creep up

May 19, 2008 04:31pm

WORLD oil prices crept toward the $US127 level in Asian trade today amid predictions of costlier crude despite Saudi Arabia's disclosure that it had boosted production, analysts said.

New York's main oil futures contract, light sweet crude for June delivery, rose 33 cents to $US126.62 per barrel in afternoon trade.

The benchmark contract had peaked at a record $US127.98 on Friday before settling at an all-time closing high of $US126.29 dollars.

London's Brent crude contract for July rose 21 cents to $US125.20 per barrel, after settling at $US124.99 on Friday. It had earlier climbed to an all-time high of $US126.34.

David Moore, a commodity strategist at the Commonwealth Bank of Australia in Sydney, said in a report that oil prices were bolstered by further US dollar weakness and "analysts further revising higher their oil price forecasts.''

Saudi Arabia's oil minister, Ali al-Nuaimi, said Friday the kingdom had increased oil production by 300,000 barrels per day from May 10 in response to orders from customers, mostly from the United States, and will pump 9.45 million barrels per day in June.

But Mr Nuaimi reiterated OPEC's long-standing view that global oil supply was balanced with demand and that market fundamentals were sound.

Saudi Arabia is the biggest producer in the 13-nation Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), which pumps about 40 percent of the world's oil.

Iran, another major producer, said on Saturday that any output hike by OPEC as requested by the United States would not affect prices.

"This would only increase inventories,'' Oil Minister Gholam Hossein Nozari told reporters. "The market is oversupplied and increasing production will not affect prices.''

The US dollar lost ground to most other major currencies on Friday after fresh data renewed concerns over the world's biggest economy and energy consumer.

A weaker US currency makes dollar-priced crude more affordable for holders of stronger currencies.

Analysts said that speculation about a rise in oil imports by China, the second-largest energy consumer, will also affect the market.

Oil prices have surged some 25 percent since the start of 2008, when they crossed $US100 for the first time.

Goldman Sachs, the most active investment bank in energy markets, predicted a jump to $US141 in the second half of the year for crude.

[snappy]

oil price effects everything it used to power every to make plastics, medicine ,electronics and to builld cars everything will rise in cost and continue to rise until we seek over power alternatives on a global scale they are not finding more oil .all they are just using is the oil thats extremely hard and costly to mine hense rise in cost.and more oil is bieng used quicker then they can pump and they wont build more pumps because why spend the money because they know they/we are going to run out.The next 20 years are going to be really tough start saving people.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Yes but they are making more then they originally were. so technically it's extra money they have to play with. The question I'm asking will the drop in the excise effect the inflation problem we have in this country?

I take it you're talking about Liberals proposed 5c cut in excise?

I'm no economist... but the way I see it... by the time that comes around, Petrol is likely to be even higher, probably substantially higher, so that 5c will look pretty useless. The other thing is that the Libs are sprouting these wayout policies trying to regain some ground in popularity, but to me, it seems to be economic suicide. These are very short term financial relief policies that will have no effect in the longer term imho.

Personally, the only way I can see a REAL move in prices starting with Crude, is for Bush to get out of the middle east and to get their $US some value.

[BAxtER]

been reading this thread, and got curious to know how much the Government earns in tax every year...so i asked my law and ethics lecturer at uni yesterday who works part time at the ATO

figures were: Financial year between july 2006- june 2007 was around the $380Billion mark

and this closing financial year it will be $319Billion with $126Billion coming from us through income etc etc. ( this was also the same figures that was on Business Sunday 3 days ago).

im sure they can afford some sort of tax cut on fuel prices....so with a few responses to this thread...yep, we are getting jipped by the Government with fuel taxes. :

[Agent86]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbakN7SLdbk

Not sayign he is right or wrong, BUT if there are even shreds of fact in what he is saying.....

[Yellow_Festiva]

On a lighter note,

I have found where some of our petrol money is going...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jJPEM4a-Ys

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Always finding new oil???

When was the last time a multi Billion+ barrel field was discovered? Not since the original ones in the 60's & 70's.

How about...

2006... http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/...news2.13s.htmlhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14678206/

2007.. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,309869,00.html

2008...http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/...news2.13s.html

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

How about...

2006... http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/...news2.13s.htmlhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14678206/

2007.. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,309869,00.html

2008...http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/...news2.13s.html

Nothing to really get excited about and certainly nothing that's going to have a rapid affect on lowering oil prices.

The issue with today's large finds are that they are at extreme depths which impacts on well cost, time to market and rig availability.

The GOM discovery is still going to take years to appraise, it only flowed at 6000bbls a day also, so it will need a massive amount of work to get daily production up to levels where it will have a material impact.

Same issues apply for the Brazilian field.

There are many companies (even small Australian co's, ie Nido, Far) advertising 'potential' Billion+ fields, but they are without real appraisal work and are usually promoted at a time when they need to raise capital.

[snappy]

according to what i have read these oil fields they have found a only like four month supplys for the world anyway . and a to extract it they some times burn more oil than there pumping out . try reading this hope its not all true www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

[Bossxr8]

In the above article it says the world is oversupplied with oil, so why the hell is the price still going up. This is just becoming a joke, the oil suppliers must be laughing all the way to the bank because the world is paying so much more than what they should be. :

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

I take it you're talking about Liberals proposed 5c cut in excise?

lol, I swear I plucked 5c out my rear end (which is prob what Nelson did as well) I was trying to work out what economic impact it had.

Never mind.

[snappy]

i think that study above was done some time around 2003 were the cost comes in they are pumping the same amount every year . the problem every year demand increases and wells get smaller . but if they release that info there stock will drop . it is a heap of bs who nows what to believe because the truth is the precious comoditiy .

[omn1potent]

More bowser pain as petrol hits record high

Daniella Miletic
May 22, 2008

THE price of petrol continued its record climb as motorists were warned it could go higher next week after the latest surge in international petrol prices.

As the benchmark Singapore Mogus hit a record $US132.20 a barrel, the city's unleaded petrol reached the all-time high yesterday of 162.9 cents a litre for unleaded fuel.

For about an hour in the afternoon, more than 100 petrol stations across Melbourne were charging the record figure, before dropping the price back to 159.9 cents.

Petrol retailers had largely avoided fluctuating prices this month after Coles Express/Shell was named and shamed as a price leader by the newly appointed petrol commissioner on May 7.

But yesterday Coles outlets peaked at a high of 159.9 cents a litre — dragging many others charging the record price back down to 159.9.

After Coles, Woolworths/Caltex followed suit and took prices to 159.9, according to petrol price watch website motormouth.com.au.

Experts believe the record high, largely due to rising world oil and wholesale petrol prices, signalled a return to the highs and lows of the weekly petrol price cycle.

Motormouth director Alan Cadd said retailers were forced to drop prices yesterday when Coles did not push bowsers to the record high.

"It's interesting that Coles, the villain price leader earlier this month, was the retailer that dragged prices back down," he said.

By 3pm, 22 Mobil service stations, 16 Caltex stations and 16 BP stations were among the retailers charging 162.9 cents a litre. By 5pm, the number of outlets selling at that price hit 102 across Melbourne, but by 7pm only 21 kept bowser prices at the record high. The rest had fallen to 159.9 cents.

The average price in Melbourne yesterday crept up to 144.5 cents — 14.1 cents above the average of 130.4 cents paid by motorists in May last year, according to the RACV.

The lowest price recorded yesterday was 135.9 cents a litre at a Caltex/Woolworths and a Mobil station in Noble Park.

Petrol commissioner Pat Walker said yesterday's historic high signalled a clear return to the weekly price cycle.

"One would imagine that will continue," he said. "The last few weeks were a good period for Melbourne motorists and I think there was an expectation that there would be a return to the price cycle."

The Victorian Automobile Chamber of Commerce, which represents 400 independent service station owners, had accused the supermarket petrol retailers of deliberately keeping prices low this month in order to drive them out of the industry. It argued that they needed to lift prices yesterday because the major chains had been selling petrol at a cheaper price than the independents could buy it.

"I think the increase in price (yesterday) is going to mean the difference between going out the back door and surviving for some of our members," the chamber's director David Purchase said.

RACV spokesman David Cumming warned motorists that it was "highly likely" that prices would peak even higher next Wednesday.

Commsec senior analyst Savanth Sebastian said the strength of the Australian dollar had also helped to keep the price of unleaded fuel lower than it normally would have been. "The risks for petrol prices are much more heavily weighted in the upside at the moment." .

KEY POINTS

■Petrol prices continue to reach record highs.
■Even higher prices are expected.
■Coles outlets helped to drag prices lower yesterday.



Petrol prices rise above $1.60 a litre

Petrol prices have soared above $1.60 a litre in some capital cities, with an analyst saying there is no respite in sight for motorists.

In Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney and Tasmania the highest price on Wednesday was above $1.62 per litre, while motorists in the Northern Territory have been copping prices in excess of $1.60 for more than a week.

National Australia Bank economist Gerard Burg said it was unlikely prices would stabilise in the short term.

"Obviously we're seeing a steady increase in world oil prices and that's been capturing headlines," Mr Burg said.

"There's a lot of uncertainties at play in the domestic market when it comes to the petrol prices," he said, pointing to the strong Australian dollar which is significantly easing pressure on the petrol price.

The dollar ended slightly lower on Wednesday, off its 24-year high of recent days. Crude oil is traded in US dollars, meaning Australia's strength against the greenback is offsetting rising crude prices.

Mr Burg said the recent decision by the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) to refuse requests for a rise in oil production would not help.

"There's no reason to expect prices to fall away from these levels anytime soon."

In Melbourne, the price rose to $1.63 at one service station in the city's south-east.

Victorian motoring group the RACV said the spike was part of the mysterious weekly price cycle which even an extensive 2007 investigation by the competition watchdog could not unravel.

The service station was charging the steep price despite a nearby rival station charging just $1.36, RACV spokesman David Cumming said.

"If others don't follow, that's the end of it," he said.

"It's just someone trying it on."

NSW motoring body the NRMA reported the top price in Sydney was almost $1.63.

"Crude oil prices continue to rise and continue to break records and we're seeing the same at the bowser with quite dramatic effects on Australian families and also on the economy," an NRMA spokesman said.

"These prices have already hit Sydney and tomorrow is Thursday - the most expensive day of the week - so motorists need to brace for even more pain."

The lowest bowser price recorded across Sydney on Wednesday was 138.9 cents a litre.

OPEC has steadfastly refused to increase output with the group's secretary-general Abdullah Al-Badri saying the high price of crude was a result of the weakened US dollar, not the fundamental issue of supply and demand.

[Hybrid34]

Can i ask, why has LPG gone up?, I know about inflation and so forth, but compared to 4 or 5 years ago, LPG seems to have gone up alot more than it should,
Are the petrol companies doing this to make money?

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Hybrid34

Can i ask, why has LPG gone up?, I know about inflation and so forth, but compared to 4 or 5 years ago, LPG seems to have gone up alot more than it should,
Are the petrol companies doing this to make money?

LPG has been rising and will continue to rise because it's now (in the last couple of years) a far more attractive alternative of energy now that Crude is rocketing!

The large energy corporations around the world, and our more immediate Asian neighbours appetite for LPG/CNG is growing significantly. Australia's large GAS reserves are getting snapped up by these guys and obviously the market price is being pushed up because of demand.

Australia's Western states have had a significant price
premium to the Eastern states, WA Gas projects have been attracting $6+ per Gigajoule, whereas the Eastern states have only been getting $2-$3 per GJ. This is now rising and closing the gap to the WA market as many offshore Eastern GAS projects are being commissioned and resources snapped up by hungry giants.

[Hybrid34]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

LPG has been rising and will continue to rise because it's now (in the last couple of years) a far more attractive alternative of energy now that Crude is rocketing!

The large energy corporations around the world, and our more immediate Asian neighbours appetite for LPG/CNG is growing significantly. Australia's large GAS reserves are getting snapped up by these guys and obviously the market price is being pushed up because of demand.

Australia's Western states have had a significant price
premium to the Eastern states, WA Gas projects have been attracting $6+ per Gigajoule, whereas the Eastern states have only been getting $2-$3 per GJ. This is now rising and closing the gap to the WA market as many offshore Eastern GAS projects are being commissioned and resources snapped up by hungry giants.

Thanks, the answer i was looking for, So bascially because its not an infinite resourse (as over the past years they have discovered in years to come it will become scerse) therere slowing increasing the price?
Cheers
- Ash

[SNGT]

wtf is with petrol prices, just read ninemsn;

"Petrol prices will probably hit $1.90 a litre in Australia's capital cities over the next eight weeks as American families pile into their gas-guzzling cars over the pending holiday season and squeeze already soaring prices, a leading analyst predicts."

wat r we gonna do? im looking at almost $160 for a full tank premium for the gt
: : : : :

[Mechan1k]

Look at it this way ... if you were running diesel you'd be spewing already as it is at $1.80 at the moment in Sydney ... with the price hike it'll go a hell of a lot higher.

[SeXC]

or look at it this way.... if its too much, catch the bus.

[SB076]

It will only get worse in future - Limited resource with more and more people each day vying for it - wait until a lot more Chinese and Indians get cars - then that will push demand up even more and prices will rise accordingly

[omn1potent]

PeTroL PriceS to HiT $1.90c per litre!

11:00 AEST Thu May 22 2008

Petrol prices will probably hit $1.90 a litre in Australia's capital cities over the next eight weeks as American families pile into their gas-guzzling cars over the pending holiday season and squeeze already soaring prices, a leading analyst predicts.

ANZ Head of Commodities Research Mark Pervan told ninemsn that crude oil prices could jump up to US $150 a barrel during the US summer holiday season.

Petrol prices in Australia already have soared above $1.60 a litre in some cities as oil prices continue to surge on world markets.

"The oil market is very seasonal," Mr Pervan said. "We're about to enter a strong stage in oil demand with the US driving season."

That season begins this Saturday with the Memorial Day long weekend and continues through to Labor Day on September 1.

"The market will watch the Memorial Day weekend very closely," Mr Pervan said. "We tend to see a sharp spike in demand for gasoline in the US, which pushes up US crude oil prices, which in turn affects the price of Tapis crude oil and the Singapore price [of unleaded petrol], which is the benchmark for us here in Australia."

The turnaround time for a jump in US crude prices to be reflected at petrol bowsers in Australia could be as little as one week, Mr Pervan said.

"On current trends we could see crude prices reach US$150 a barrel within eight or nine weeks from now," he said.

Mr Pervan said there was little respite in sight for motorists as demand for oil among emerging economies in China and India only continues to rise.

But he said that a strong Australian dollar was helping ease pressure on bowser prices here, even as oil prices jumped $5 to a record near US$134 a barrel overnight.

In Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney and Tasmania the highest price yesterday was above $1.62 per litre.

Prices are lower in Queensland than in other states due to the state government's 8.3 cents a litre fuel subsidy.

However, motorists in the state's south-east are paying the highest prices for fuel ever seen in the region.

Some service stations broke the $1.50 mark overnight, while most service stations across Brisbane are selling unleaded for 149.9 cents a litre.

[PoMmYwOG]

prices are a total joke at the moment, bp near my place last night was 1.62 for normal unleaded!!! I put 50 bucks(95octane) this AM at a caltex and all i got was 30L(not even half a tank).
Why should we be charged more just cos the US are going on holidays,just cos they are gonna have to pay more for fuel why should we, why should it affect the other markets, do our markets affect anyone when we have holidays? Everybody is pinching out of everyones pockets these days, petrol has doubled since 4yrs ago when i had my P's, i was paying about 80c/L for 98octane...
Also hiking up petrol because we are slowly "running out" is stupid IMO, people are always gonna use petrol, how else will the majority get to work??sydneys public transport is and theres not enough of it to accodomate the 4mil people. Sure putting the prices up might make more people have other ways of getting to work, but what about ppl who cant and need to drive, that will mean they may not be able to afford to go to work which means they could end up jobless, then what?
Apologies for the ranting but i just think its rediculous

[omn1potent]

The rising price (and associated costs) of Oil / Petrol Discussion Thread.