QLD Raise Fines by 33%.......

[Hunter]

I should take some photographs of the 'roads' (more like black coloured dirt tracks) around my area and post them. The street which is at the top end of mine is literally so broken you can pick chunks up without trying. If you went over it faster than say 20 km/h you'd probably lose grip and slide all over the place...

I find it interesting you say the roads in the bush are such good quality, they sure as hell aren't in the big cities.

[deathlucky]

.... they should just give us more points to lose as well they will make a ton more money since that all there after

[fordAU]

I'm sure I heard a snippet on the news the other day mentioning there will be no future legislative requirement for "Radar in Use Signs" to be displayed.

If this is fact the next step will be speed cameras in roadside bins..or in Bligh's hard hat that appears to be glued to her forehead.

[Laminge]

Welcome to Victoria!

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by fordAU

I'm sure I heard a snippet on the news the other day mentioning there will be no future legislative requirement for "Radar in Use Signs" to be displayed.

If this is fact the next step will be speed cameras in roadside bins..or in Bligh's hard hat that appears to be glued to her forehead.

Tend not to pay too much attention to QLD, but if this is the case - its time to vote the opposition back in, when that time arrives and if this issue matters that much.

To most punters, I don't think it does, nor does road safety as a topic per se for that matter.

Related to another poster; I do expect the rural default, either by state law, or eventually under ARR to come down to better reflect the lack of quality of such roads.

References to Italy - AUS is not Europe, very far from it. Never will be. Besides, out lifestyle is better, driving not withstanding.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by fordAU

I'm sure I heard a snippet on the news the other day mentioning there will be no future legislative requirement for "Radar in Use Signs" to be displayed.

If this is fact the next step will be speed cameras in roadside bins..or in Bligh's hard hat that appears to be glued to her forehead.

If you were a statistician you could argue that increasing speed cameras actually increases road fatalities, based on the increase in deaths versus the exponential increase in cameras.

Some argue that cameras are a distraction; drivers take their eyes off the road to discover them and spend too much time checking their speedo along with the inner mumblings that go with the anxiety.

I don't think there has been a study that shows any improvement in projected fatalities/accidents due to the bogey of speed cameras, but I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

When they were introduced in Qld, the then Premier Wayne Goss was at pains to explain they wouldn't be used on other than known blackspots, that they wouldn't be used on incident free downhills and the process would be transparent. As usual once a punitive law is passed, it grows into a waddy to bludgeon the public into submission and empty their pockets so that the public service can enrich their non productive jobs and outlandish superannuation.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Tend not to pay too much attention to QLD, but if this is the case - its time to vote the opposition back in, when that time arrives and if this issue matters that much.

To most punters, I don't think it does, nor does road safety as a topic per se for that matter.

Related to another poster; I do expect the rural default, either by state law, or eventually under ARR to come down to better reflect the lack of quality of such roads.

References to Italy - AUS is not Europe, very far from it. Never will be. Besides, out lifestyle is better, driving not withstanding.

Australia is not Europe. This is so true. There are no Australians who know first hand just how far an uncontrolled government/public service can go. We have never had a Gestapo or KGB or the Spanish/Italian/French/the rest equivelent so we live in denial.
They have and have had to fight and die to remove them so they tend to react a bit more quickly and are not so naive as to believe that "The party is right, the party is true, the party will protect me" just because they say they will.

In saying this we do not, I believe, have a system that is a corrupt as for example, Nazi Germany, but remember Hitler was the best thing that ever happened to Germany for quite a while until people started to wake up to what the real agenda was.

Before the pimply faced gurus start screaming "nazi lover" look at German history 1920-1938 and compare it to other countries at the same time. All the autobahns built, wilderness areas protected, unemployment benefits and pensions implemented, industry rebuilt, volkswagen (the first "affordable" car) delivered, guns banned, education formalised and subsidised and a lot more.

There was of course the genocide and war etc shortly afterward which tended to blacken the picture a bit.

The point I am making is that THEY do not wear the crap anymore as they have seen what can happen, we have not and so we are being screwed on a daily basis and just ignoring it.

[DJR-351]

A few statistics freely available on the web, admitedly these are for the whole of Australia as i am still trying to find particulars on QLD, but are still interesting non the less with regards to justifying raising the cost of fines.....

Remember the population is always growing....

YEAR DEATHS
1925 700 First time records kept.

1970 3798 Peaked (supercars+crap roads maybe??)

2007 1605

From 1925 to 1970 there was a steady climb to 3798 and from 1970 the figures have gradually declined, albeit with a few hicups on the way, see below from the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

Road fatalities declining over the decades (Transport chapter)

Road fatalities in Australia have dropped to a level equivalent to the 1950s, after peaking at 3,798 deaths in 1970.

The road toll in 2005 (1,636) was higher than in 2004 (1,583). However, a graph in Year Book Australia 2007 shows a general downward trend from 1970, following the steady rise in road deaths between 1926 and 1970.

From the ABC News.....

National road toll figure down 12.5pc
Posted Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:32pm AEST

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) figures show there has been a big drop in national road deaths in the first six months of 2008.

Between January and June this year, 704 people were killed on Australian roads, compared to 805 over the same six-month period of 2007.

The figures mean an overall drop of 12.5 per cent.

The general manager of road safety at the Department of Transport, Joe Motha, says its a welcome statistic.

"We're very happy to see these figures, there is a substantial drop," he said.

Around Australia there was also a notable drop in cyclist road deaths over the last year.

Twenty-nine bike riders died between July last year and June this year, compared to 44 in the previous year, a decrease of more than 34 per cent.

The internet is full of this stuff and can be twisted to suit you needs, but two things stand out for me and that is the population has been continually growing but the Road Toll has been steadily declining since 1970, which seems to me we are learning, although it may be slow.........

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by XA351COUPE

A few statistics freely available on the web, admitedly these are for the whole of Australia as i am still trying to find particulars on QLD, but are still interesting non the less with regards to justifying raising the cost of fines.....

Remember the population is always growing....

YEAR DEATHS
1925 700 First time records kept.

1970 3798 Peaked (supercars+crap roads maybe??)

2007 1605

From 1925 to 1970 there was a steady climb to 3798 and from 1970 the figures have gradually declined, albeit with a few hicups on the way, see below from the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

Road fatalities declining over the decades (Transport chapter)

Road fatalities in Australia have dropped to a level equivalent to the 1950s, after peaking at 3,798 deaths in 1970.

The road toll in 2005 (1,636) was higher than in 2004 (1,583). However, a graph in Year Book Australia 2007 shows a general downward trend from 1970, following the steady rise in road deaths between 1926 and 1970.

From the ABC News.....

National road toll figure down 12.5pc
Posted Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:32pm AEST

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) figures show there has been a big drop in national road deaths in the first six months of 2008.

Between January and June this year, 704 people were killed on Australian roads, compared to 805 over the same six-month period of 2007.

The figures mean an overall drop of 12.5 per cent.

The general manager of road safety at the Department of Transport, Joe Motha, says its a welcome statistic.

"We're very happy to see these figures, there is a substantial drop," he said.

Around Australia there was also a notable drop in cyclist road deaths over the last year.

Twenty-nine bike riders died between July last year and June this year, compared to 44 in the previous year, a decrease of more than 34 per cent.

The internet is full of this stuff and can be twisted to suit you needs, but two things stand out for me and that is the population has been continually growing but the Road Toll has been steadily declining since 1970, which seems to me we are learning, although it may be slow.........

Lies, Damned Lies & Statistics...

As you correctly point out, the numbers can be twisted any way you like.

Who is to say that it's the increasing fines & cameras that's lowering the road toll, and not the vastly improved safety of vehicles?

Think about a typical vehicle from the 70s - basically a tank. No crumple-zones, air-bags, ABS, Stability Control, etc. Most of the force of any collision was transferred directly to the occupants.

Now look at a typical modern car - designed so the car crumples (and not the occupants) absorbing most of the energy of any impact, improvements to seat belts (pre-tensioning, lap/sash belts in all positions, etc.), air bags, ABS, stability/traction control, etc., etc.

[fordAU]

I had a bit of a chuckle, actually it was not a chuckle, it was a bit more come to think of it, it was a big laugh when I read this little piece from the Brisbane Times.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news...318648651.html

Ms Bligh denied it was a money grab or tax.

"I would be very happy if we see less income come from this, because it means people will be staying safer on the roads."

[manxman]

Just remember people, that fines are cheap taxes for governments. They would otherwise have to raise more taxes to fund their pet projects. They won't abandon gambling , tobacco or other social ills because they can tax them. The tax office will collect taxes from drug growers, but not necessarily talk to police. Fines are voluntary taxes, I very rarely incur them, I actively drive/ride so as not to have to pay them. I choose to own vehicles unlikely to give transgression, and laugh every time I pass a speed camera or get breathalized.

I'll say it again, because it's true. Vehicles NEED to be sufficiently dangerous to injure/kill people so that they have cause to be afraid of having an accident. If they are too safe, the drivers have no reason to fear and forget to drive properly. There has to be an effective consequence for driving badly-injury and death are accepted now, because it continues, and I see no reason to change that, except make these consequences worse to MAKE people afraid of driving badly. See Volvo drivers-we all hate them, and with good reason. I have just explained how they get so bad.

I take responsibility for my own driving and riding. If I hurt myself or others, that's my fault, but if someone else hurts or kills me, that's sad for me, but they will pay for their culpability eventually, and justice will be done-to and for everyone. I don't have to live, I only have to live right. Sorrows are the human normality, AFAIK. Expect it & get over it.

[Dr_Hoon]

Lies, Damned Lies & Statistics...

As you correctly point out, the numbers can be twisted any way you like.

Actually, the road toll has radically decreased since 1970 when the number of drivers on the road is taken into account. Biggest changes have been drink driving laws and car design.

[guzzis3]

Sigh. It is quite true that statistics can be twisted to mean anything you want. I ahve spent much of my life in Research, and product development. I've seen first hand how the results of an experiment can be taylored to suit the person funding it.

Let me just offer a couple of points. Take this as you will.

No reseach is credible unless the raw data is available for independant scrutiny. Also it is trivial to substitute identifiers for personal information. There is no excuse for the state governments denial of accident data for independant examination. They do it because they don't want people knowing just how utterly ineffective their strategies are.

If you examine the work that has been done both by the federal government (previously FORS but had a name change a few years back) and throughout the developed world the data is remarkably consistent. About 5 - 6 % of all crashes, injuries and road deaths have excessive speed as a signifigant contributing factor. The only measureable correlation between declines in the crash/injury/death rate on the roads (per head of drivers or cars registered) corresponds with the widespread deployment (not introduction) of more idiot proof cars.

It is no accident that disc brakes and seat belts becoming commonplace corressponds with the declines seen in the 70's, and the smaller events from ABS and air bags in the late 80's and 90's.

In fact the % of drivers over .05 involved in crashes has not declined with RBT. That's not to say RBT is a bad thing BTW...The totla number has declined with the overall decline.

There is a case for compelling attention. All drivers need to be mindful they are in charge of a deadly weapon capable of killing far more efficiently than any assault rifle. The problem IMO is not that cars are now more capable, but that they are quiet, controls light, the driver is detached from the enviroment and together with being forced to drive well below the cars potential their attention drifts.

I don't see any easy answer for that problem.

[Wally]

There was an article in Courier Mail a few weeks back, with the Ambulance service complaining they lacked the staffing to cope with the extra 500 accident scenes over last year.

If true it would suggest that while deaths are down the accident rate is on the increase. If the medical treatments were the same as when seatbelts were introduced , it would be interesting to see what the death rates would be now.

[guzzis3]

It's more likely to be the cars that are reducing fatalities.

Note I did my apprectiship on ambulances and I have great affection and respect for the people who man them.

I got T boned in my EF some years back. Car was a write off, I walked away. Hit me right in the B pillar drivers side. There are many cars where I would not have been alright, and you lot would be denied my pillars of wisdom