Marked police cars curb motoring law breakers

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

So by your reasoning we are suppoosed to only stuff up when not in the car? Yeah right.Good luck with that Robotman!

Does that mean I can stuff up at a higher rate out of the car to make up for it?

Pretty much yeah. I personally don't give a stuff what you do with your life when you're not behind the wheel as it dosen't affect me.

But when you are behind the wheel, you have your life and many other's in your own hand's.

Think about it.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by XBROO

I proberly should touch wood or something but I have never been done for a few kays over. It has always been for atleast 10 or more.

I'm in the same boat, but I know of people being done by speed cameras for 63 in a 60 zone. When you can be booked for such a minor hiccup, paranoid sets in and people take their eyes off the road to focus most of their attention on the speedo.

Is that safer than looking up and taking in your surroundings at 10kph over the limit?

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

Pretty much yeah. I personally don't give a stuff what you do with your life when you're not behind the wheel as it dosen't affect me.

But when you are behind the wheel, you have your life and many other's in your own hand's.

Think about it.

Oh I do, more so than you I believe.

Its why I pay more attention to the road and what is going on around me, than the speedo. Its a skill I learnt on roadbikes where any mistkae can mean the end. No good being at or under the speed limit if you have your eyes glued to the speedo rather than the knob about to cut you off!

You on the other hand appear to have fallen for the speed kills propaganda that we have been hit with for the last decade. Look up and live my friend. That and just move with the traffic!

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

As i stated earlier, i'm far from perfect but as for your statement about speeding in new cars being easy, LMFAO.

Dosen't matter how new the car is, it still has a speedo.

Yeah but the road noise, rattles and squeaks aren't present so if you watching where you're going instead of watching the speedo then it's quite easy to go over the speed limit without realising. Even if you are rolling with no acceleration you can go over by a few kays. Don't know about you but I watch what ahead most of the time and take glances at the speedo when I can. Maybe if there weren't so many watching their speedos and riding the brakes then I mightn't have to watch the road so much. :togo:

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

Oh I do, more so than you I believe.

Its why I pay more attention to the road and what is going on around me, than the speedo. Its a skill I learnt on roadbikes where any mistkae can mean the end. No good being at or under the speed limit if you have your eyes glued to the speedo rather than the knob about to cut you off!

You on the other hand appear to have fallen for the speed kills propaganda that we have been hit with for the last decade. Look up and live my friend. That and just move with the traffic!

The Speed Kills Propaganda, ahh yes, that old chestnut.

I don't believe it.

Closely examine what you have just posted, now turn your brain on, and post again when you are ready.

What is so hard about controlling a vehicle, watching your speedo, driving to suit your surrounding's and staying on or under the posted speed limit ?

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

Oh I do, more so than you I believe.

Its why I pay more attention to the road and what is going on around me, than the speedo. Its a skill I learnt on roadbikes where any mistkae can mean the end. No good being at or under the speed limit if you have your eyes glued to the speedo rather than the knob about to cut you off!

You on the other hand appear to have fallen for the speed kills propaganda that we have been hit with for the last decade. Look up and live my friend. That and just move with the traffic!

I certainly know what it's like to ride a bike on the road. One thing I learnt is to ride with the frame of mine that every car is out to hit you. So when that certain one dose pull out or cut you off you are ready.

[GTpilot]

Intelligence = Being able to do the wrong thing, and consistantly get away with it. :

Boring = not doing the wrong thing in the first place :newangel:

Dumbass = Doing the wrong thing, and keep getting busted. :gren:

Human = Being entitled to an opinion, Right or Wrong .

[XR6_190]

Putting more marked cop cars on the streets won't do anything to stop people from doing the wrong thing, not unless they have a cop car on every street, and no government in this country can afford that.

People might think it's purely revenue raising, but the way I see it, unmarked Highway patrol cars are very useful, in the case of most idiots on the road, they will only stop driving like an idiot (doughnuts, excessive speed, etc) when they see a marked cop car, so even if marked police presence was heightened, it wouldn't stop the majority, but if they get a ticket when they thought nobody was watching, they might think again.

And yes I have done stupid things in my car, the difference is when I was booked, I didn't blame the system, or the cops, I blamed my self, something more people need to do

[Laminge]

Originally Posted by jgb

Intelligence = Being able to do the wrong thing, and consistantly get away with it. :

Boring = not doing the wrong thing in the first place :newangel:

Dumbass = Doing the wrong thing, and keep getting busted. :gren:

Human = Being entitled to an opinion, Right or Wrong .

Laminge = Banning above users in cop threads!

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by Explorer_Me

I was wondering how long it would take for a comment like that to be posted

I am wondering how long it is until yet another police related thread gets locked up because people can't control themselves.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

What is so hard about controlling a vehicle, watching your speedo, driving to suit your surrounding's and staying on or under the posted speed limit ?

When did I say it was so hard?

What I said was that I would prefer to look around me and assess the road conditions, rather than have my eyes glued to the speedo. If I happen to creep over the speed limit by a few kph, so what! I'm being an attentive driver.

The way that our speeding laws are being enforced (with very small tolerances and speed cameras that lack the human element and dont take different situations/conditions into account), I think encourages speedo watching rather than roadcraft.

Give me a population of drivers who practice roadcraft every time. Bugger worrying about being a few ks over! Watch the bloody road and concentrate on whats going on around you!

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

I am wondering how long it is until yet another police related thread gets locked up because people can't control themselves.

By the looks of this one not long at all.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by XBROO

I certainly know what it's like to ride a bike on the road. One thing I learnt is to ride with the frame of mine that every car is out to hit you. So when that certain one dose pull out or cut you off you are ready.

I have over 100,000 road bike klms under the belt ( inlcuding over 50k in the greater Sydney area) and have exactly the same frame of mind as you mention. I also adopt the same principle in the car.

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

When did I say it was so hard?

What I said was that I would prefer to look around me and assess the road conditions, rather than have my eyes glued to the speedo. If I happen to creep over the speed limit by a few kph, so what! I'm being an attentive driver.

The way that our speeding laws are being enforced (with very small tolerances and speed cameras that lack the human element and dont take different situations/conditions into account), I think encourages speedo watching rather than roadcraft.

Give me a population of drivers who practice roadcraft every time. Bugger worrying about being a few ks over! Watch the bloody road and concentrate on whats going on around you!

Our opinions obviously differ so i will leave this thread alone now.
I respect your input and your opinion Craiginmackay.

No hard feeling's. Let's move on.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

People might think it's purely revenue raising, but the way I see it, unmarked Highway patrol cars are very useful, in the case of most idiots on the road, they will only stop driving like an idiot (doughnuts, excessive speed, etc) when they see a marked cop car, so even if marked police presence was heightened, it wouldn't stop the majority, but if they get a ticket when they thought nobody was watching, they might think again.

Can you explain to me how heightening the presence of unmarked cars effects behaviour, if you don't know that they are cops?

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

Our opinions obviously differ so i will leave this thread alone now.
I respect your input and your opinion Craiginmackay.

No hard feeling's. Let's move on.

No worreis mate. I haven't taken anything you have said personally or anything like that. I hope you feel the same. Nothing wrong with a bit of spirited debate.

I just see vehicle control being of greater importance than a posted speed sign. After all, an accident that can happen at 98 can also happen at 110 and the outcome is similar. I hope you get where I am coming from.

I certainly don't condone dangerous driving.

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

No worreis mate. I haven't taken anything you have said personally or anything like that. I hope you feel the same. Nothing wrong with a bit of spirited debate.

I just see vehicle control being of greater importance than a posted speed sign. After all, an accident that can happen at 98 can also happen at 110 and the outcome is similar. I hope you get where I am coming from.

I certainly don't condone dangerous driving.

Cheers mate, i see where you are coming from.

Adam.

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

Cheers mate, i see where you are coming from.

Adam.

I'm glad that you two can agree to disagree because too many of these type of threads turn sour. _2:

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by XBROO

I'm glad that you two can agree to disagree because too many of these type of threads turn sour. _2:

If things get personal, I can see why.

As long as no one crosses the line though, its all good and shouldn't be censored.

Nothing wrong with differences of opinion or a spirited debate. We are in the pub after all! :

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

Can you explain to me how heightening the presence of unmarked cars effects behaviour, if you don't know that they are cops?

Mate read it again, I said MARKED police presence changes peoples attitude, but not for long enough. I didn't say that unmarked cars would effect behaviour, but that if people start to get pinged by cops in unmarked cars, they might start to think again about the stupid behaviour. Also it is the stupid behaviour I'm talking about, not the 3 kays over on a down hill gradient.

[XBROO]

Marked or unmarked there is always going to be idiots on the road. And police can't be every were and even these idiots know that. So don't matter how many licences are suspended or cars are confiscated there is another one to take their place. The problem is these type of people breed like rabbits and are to stupid to take birth control. :evil3:

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

You've got to understand the difference between unmarked cop cars and quiet cars.
The old unmarked cop cars were so easy to spot it's not funny. Grey BA XT with pursuits, slightly lowered and 4 aerials and two clowns in shirt and tie in the front. Stick out from a mile off. Now the q-cars are anything, subaru liberties, honda accords, xr5 folk-asses, anything. Can't pick em.

Oh no you can still pick them, its just a lot harder. There's an old late 90s Liberty that prowls the ICB sometimes, I have seen idiots get pulled over by it for doing stupid things (like tailgating). The key is the lightbar on the rear window (its hard to see because of the tint they usually have) and, as said before, the bloody great LCD screen in the centre console.

People need to remember that these unmarked cars catch a hell of a lot more than speeding, which I would prefer. Book more people for tailgating, running red lights, using highbeam when inappropriate, etc. All that sort of thing. Ping the numbskulls who have a hard time tying their shoe I say.

[westoftown]

I was under the impression that "speeding" according to the police would be a 10% buffer over the limit. So in a 60 zone, technically 61 is speeding, but they wont book you unless you're doing 67 or more (i don't have to explain the math do i?). Maybe thats just in SA? or just a myth?

On the subject of internal vehicular distribution within the police force: they still only use Falcon and Commodores here in SA as un-marked, which is why you can still spot them from a mile away with their huge aerials, bland colours and rear shutters.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

Mate read it again, I said MARKED police presence changes peoples attitude, but not for long enough. I didn't say that unmarked cars would effect behaviour, but that if people start to get pinged by cops in unmarked cars, they might start to think again about the stupid behaviour. Also it is the stupid behaviour I'm talking about, not the 3 kays over on a down hill gradient.

I read it properly the first time. You said you thought that unmarked were a good idea. You also said that marked cars worked but only for the time they were there.

It came across that you believed that unmarked cars were more effective.

I am just firing back at you the fact that they have no deterent factor at all until you have been booked, which involves being caught in the act rather than deterred from doing said stupid act in the first place.

Isn't preventing stupid, dangerous behaviour a better thing than catching someone in the act ( if you aren't doing it purely to raise money)?

Let me put this to you. Lets say that you spend an hour in the car each day, going to work during the week and to where ever you like to go on weekends. Now in the last year, you have seen at least one hwy patrol car every day. Would the fact that it is very likely that you would see one tomorrow ( seeing as you have seen one every day for the last year) kerb your enthusiasm to speed and your general behaviour on the road?

I know that you said we would need a lot more police on the road and that no government could afford it.

If the government is really serious about lowering the road toll, how can they justify any expense as being too much!

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by westoftown

I was under the impression that "speeding" according to the police would be a 10% buffer over the limit. So in a 60 zone, technically 61 is speeding, but they wont book you unless you're doing 67 or more (i don't have to explain the math do i?). Maybe thats just in SA? or just a myth?

On the subject of internal vehicular distribution within the police force: they still only use Falcon and Commodores here in SA as un-marked, which is why you can still spot them from a mile away with their huge aerials, bland colours and rear shutters.

Probably just in SA, or at least not in VIC, where its more along the lines of if your busted doing 3km/h over the limit, then you get a ticket, luckily for us mere mortals, the cops still have descretion, I got pulled over for doing 62 in a 40 zone (it had only recently been changed down from a 60 zone) 2 years ago, cops let me off when I told them that I didn't know it had changed, it's only the fixed cameras, and Tenix (not VicPol) operated mobile cameras that show no discretion.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by westoftown

I was under the impression that "speeding" according to the police would be a 10% buffer over the limit. So in a 60 zone, technically 61 is speeding, but they wont book you unless you're doing 67 or more (i don't have to explain the math do i?). Maybe thats just in SA? or just a myth?

On the subject of internal vehicular distribution within the police force: they still only use Falcon and Commodores here in SA as un-marked, which is why you can still spot them from a mile away with their huge aerials, bland colours and rear shutters.

It varies from state to state.

From what I can gather, the Aust standards states that speedos fitted to vehicles sold here must be accurate to within 10%. So a car speedo could read 54 or 66 when the needle is bang on 60 and meet Aust standards.

While you wont get anything in writing stating it, its my understanding that many of the state governmnets wont book you until you are 10% + 1kph over the limit. So that would be 67 in a 60 zone as you have said or 111 in a 100 zone, etc.

I believe Vic is the exception. I have family who have been booked for 63 in Vic and a mate who was done for 65.

How you can tell if you are 3klm over in a 60 zone on an instrument that only has to be accurate within 10% is beyond my grasp!

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

I read it properly the first time. You said you thought that unmarked were a good idea. You also said that marked cars worked but only for the time they were there.

It came across that you believed that unmarked cars were more effective.

I am just firing back at you the fact that they have no deterent factor at all until you have been booked, which involves being caught in the act rather than deterred from doing said stupid act in the first place.

Isn't preventing stupid, dangerous behaviour a better thing than catching someone in the act ( if you aren't doing it purely to raise money)?

Let me put this to you. Lets say that you spend an hour in the car each day, going to work during the week and to where ever you like to go on weekends. Now in the last year, you have seen at least one hwy patrol car every day. Would the fact that it is very likely that you would see one tomorrow ( seeing as you have seen one every day for the last year) kerb your enthusiasm to speed and your general behaviour on the road?

I know that you said we would need a lot more police on the road and that no government could afford it.

If the government is really serious about lowering the road toll, how can they justify any expense as being too much!

What you fail to realise is that most people are in fact reactionary, not logical. They TEMPORARILY change their behaviour after they see something that triggers it (in this case a marked patrol car) after a few minutes, they forget about it and go on the way they were, now to me this is not a permanent deterent, not without a massive jump in police numbers (think about 500%, as you would need a cop on just about every second street corner for it to work properly), not only is it too expensive, but it will leave our streets looking like those of a former soviet state, not those of a free country.

Now with a larger presence of UNmarked patrol cars, yes you are catching people in the act, rather than stopping them, but it is a proven and plausible method.

Most of what I have said on this topic is based on my opinion, and only loosely based on some facts and experience.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

What you fail to realise is that most people are in fact reactionary, not logical.

Yes thats true, but using my example ( here you have seen a cop car on the road every day for the last 12 months) wouldn't your natural reaction be to obey the road rules, knowing that you will see one again next time you are out and about in your car? Put another way, if you drive to Deer park every day from Melton and saw a cop along the highway daily, would this not kerb your behaviour?

Increasing driver awareness of cops out on the road ( which is what a marked car does) is also a tried and true way to kerb behaviour. Thats why they let the public know when there is a double demerits period or a particular blitz or operation happening. You may drive for 4 hours on a hwy and not see one but the fact that you know its double demerits keeps them in your thoughts, much like seeing a marked car does.


With that in mind. How is an unmarked car less expensive to have out and about on the road than a brightly painted one?

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

Yes thats true, but using my example ( where you have seen a cop car on the road every day for the last 12 months) wouldn't your natural reaction be to obey the road rules, knowing that you will see one again next time you are out and about in your car?


Another one for you. How is an unmarked car less expensive to have out and about on the road than a brightly painted one?

For most people that follow the road rules, that is the case, but these aren't the people that the Police are targeting, I do see a highway patrol car at least once a day, and I do the right thing, but that doesn't seem to stop the idiots that live in my neighborhood from doing doughuts and fishys in the middle of public roads, sure they aren't going to do it when a marked divie van goes past, but minutes later they do it, so I know it doesn't stop them, but if that marked car was unmarked, they would have still done it, and they would have got caught in the process.

To answer your other question, the price difference would be negligible, but the unmarked car will bring in more 'revenue' not that I stated that they were cheaper to operate in the first place.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

For most people that follow the road rules, that is the case, but these aren't the people that the Police are targeting, I do see a highway patrol car at least once a day, and I do the right thing, but that doesn't seem to stop the idiots that live in my neighborhood from doing doughuts and fishys in the middle of public roads, sure they aren't going to do it when a marked divie van goes past, but minutes later they do it, so I know it doesn't stop them, but if that marked car was unmarked, they would have still done it, and they would have got caught in the process.

To answer your other question, the price difference would be negligible, but the unmarked car will bring in more 'revenue' not that I stated that they were cheaper to operate in the first place.

Good to hear you are doing the right thing.

Looks like we dug up the best reason for unmarked cars. Revenue!

The police are actually targeting everyday motorists that more or less stick to the road rules. That why they are booking people for 3klm over in a 60 zone. Its easier ( lots more people doing it than doughies and it is instant, no need to go to court) and more financially rewarding than looking for hoons doing doughnuts (which can cost lots of time finding and then prosecuting through the courts).


As for your mates and their doughies, there is a time and a place for that kind of thing and a public road isn't an ideal place. There are knob heads everywhere mate. These guys will get caught up with eventually because they have no regard for the laws and have the wrong attitude and it will reflect in their everyday driving.

I only hope they are doing this at night in an industrial estate/deserted road somewhere and not in the main drag at lunchtime! Hate to see them hurt or kill an innocent bystander.