I hope you bought your Ford stock when it was US$1.01 in November

[Wally]

Originally Posted by PURSUIT-250

You make this sound so simple, then why hasn't this happend already ?

If it is so when will it happen, and what is every one sweating about ?

Cheers Mick.

It's widely tipped to be around early June. It hasn't happened yet because the Govt and GM don't want it to happen yet. The bondholders and creditors are being given every opportunity to do the swaps, and the unions are making sure they are looked after, suppply chain is being consolidated, etc. Chapter 11 can be like a filter, where you enter the front door with toxic debt and walk out the backdoor with the poison left behind. The downside to this is that the specialised creditors who get burned may cease to exist or refuse to extend credit and services in the future.

Who is sweating it out?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

$4 billion spent has to consider how much income there was as well. This figure was how much was spent to run operations. It is not how much was negative after factoring in income. .........
Steve

Yes it is, but they have accounted for some of it as balance sheet.

Simplistically:- if you had $14 in the bank from a loan levered against your house, had an income for the week of $100, went to the bank and loaned another $11 and by weeks end you had $21 available cash, you burned $4 above your income. You may have used $1 of that $4 to paint the house you mortgaged, but the house is still leveraged, probably hasn't increased in value and still has $25 plus interest owing on it.

[Ohio XB]

"Net loss" is the final number, just like "net pay", what you get in your pay check after taxes.

DEARBORN, Mich., April 24, 2009 – Ford Motor Company [NYSE: F] today reported a first quarter net loss of $1.4 billion, or $0.60 per share.

http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=30194

How "Net Loss" is calculated is Federally regulated and Ford is required to meet those regulations.


Steve

[Wally]

Ford media don't count. This does:

http://secfilings.nasdaq.com/filingF...24%2F2009&pdf=

[Ohio XB]

Wonderful. Did you read anything on that page yourself? It is the same thing I get as an employee and as a share holder. I have this already.

It also does not say anything different from Ford's media site. They would be in violation of law if it did.

From the page you linked to....

"We believe that revenue and profits excluding special items are useful measures to provide investors, because they exclude those items that we do not necessarily consider to be indicative of earnings from ongoing operating activities. As a result, revenue and profits excluding special items provide investors with relevant measures of the results generated by our operations."


· Net loss of $1.4 billion, or $0.60 per share, for the first quarter of 2009; pre-tax operating loss of approximately $2 billion, excluding special items ++


Same same.



I am now done wasting my time with this issue with you.


Steve

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Wonderful. Did you read anything on that page yourself? It is the same thing I get as an employee and as a share holder. I have this already.

It also does not say anything different from Ford's media site. They would be in violation of law if it did.

From the page you linked to....

"We believe that revenue and profits excluding special items are useful measures to provide investors, because they exclude those items that we do not necessarily consider to be indicative of earnings from ongoing operating activities. As a result, revenue and profits excluding special items provide investors with relevant measures of the results generated by our operations."


· Net loss of $1.4 billion, or $0.60 per share, for the first quarter of 2009; pre-tax operating loss of approximately $2 billion, excluding special items ++


Same same.



I am now done wasting my time with this issue with you.


Steve

Thanks for the feedback Steve, don't worry about wally, they have a name for people who frequent the oppositions forums solely to argue and discredit anything positive there....

[Wally]

Yes he's called 4Vman.

Steve it's not my call. I'm looking at it dispassionately on the basis of your OP ....share purchase. You can take your bat and ball and go home if you like, but I would have thought you'd be eager to find out how your employer is travelling.

The $3.7b burn is actually declared. Some of the baiscs for investment is PE followed by debt equity and of course ROI. Creative accounting is what got wall street in a mess and it was all reported per the US govt requirements, so don't think manipulation of figures doesn't happen and that some watchdog will pick it up.

[Ohio XB]

You can take your bat and ball and go home if you like...

That's exactly what I am doing since you are playing hockey anyways.

...but I would have thought you'd be eager to find out how your employer is travelling.

With my lifelong objectivity of the world and my intimate familiarity of not just what you and the rest of the public see but what I see and experience on the inside, believe me, I have a better grasp of Ford's postion than most. I don't fool myself because I need to know what my job situation will be so I can do what's best for me. I work for Ford, it's not my company.

Now, tell me what company you work for and I will inform you about it with more information than you know about it, even though you work there, experience the operations on a daily basis, receive company bulletins, attend company meetings, receive inter-office communications, are required to change your working methods per the company's requirements, receive monthly company reports, are addressed by a company Vice-President weekly, email with company top brass, and also do all your own tracking so that you can prepare to make a necessary change if your position should come into jeopardy. Sounds rediculous, doesn't it?

No, I don't know everything, and I am the first to admit that, but I do have to say I have more information sources than most here.



Steve

[Elks]

Wally your missing the point here. FoMoCo has been through the wars and is battered and bruised and is now home licking its wounds and on the improve.

Your GM. Armed with it's finest sword is about to go into a major gunfight, and if it comes out, it will be missing some pieces.

Suppliers are the issues here to me. I have a friend running trucks carting for GM. GM go down, they might just take him with them. The fact is without the help of Governments around the world they would be gone already. That Bugs me. GM and it's employees are responsible for where they are, to go into bankruptcy to avoid paying their debts is very poor form.

[XR8putts]

Steve, don't let Wally put you off. Alot of us really appreciate your posts and knowledge you bring to this forum. Please continue to post like you have been, don't take notice of the unappreciative minority. I think most of us read and appreciate your posts - but we tend not to respond / reply because we feel there is no need to, you always cover all the points and back them up with facts.

I like your annalogy of the Big 3 and the hole, and I agree completely. I tried buying shares in Ford (US) a month ago, but there are too many holes to jump through when buying American stock from NZ, by that I mean the fees are too high and I'm a struggling uni student .

[Transfiguring R]

I agree with puts99. I always read your posts, and hope you stick around.

[F6 R-Spec]

Originally Posted by myts

Wally your missing the point here. FoMoCo has been through the wars and is battered and bruised and is now home licking its wounds and on the improve.

Your GM. Armed with it's finest sword is about to go into a major gunfight, and if it comes out, it will be missing some pieces.

Suppliers are the issues here to me. I have a friend running trucks carting for GM. GM go down, they might just take him with them. The fact is without the help of Governments around the world they would be gone already. That Bugs me. GM and it's employees are responsible for where they are, to go into bankruptcy to avoid paying their debts is very poor form.

Totaly agree. :

Im not sweating to much but, alot of the Yanks are .

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by PURSUIT-250

Im not sweating to much but, alot of the Yanks are .

well they are going into summer. lol

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by Transfiguring R

I agree with puts99. I always read your posts, and hope you stick around.

No worries. I'm not going anywhere, I am just not going to discuss this issue with Wally anymore. I respect his views on the situation but don't understand his take, trying to convince me that I don't have all the information and Ford accounting for a number of perspectives in their quarterly report, which they have always done, is considered "creative accounting" instead of providing insight from several angles when they are laying all their cards on the table. I guess they should only provide one financial scenario and let all outlooks be based solely on that one, limited perspective. I don't know too many investors or analysts that work that way because that one report could be based on creative accounting (think ENRON).


Steve

[buggerlugs]

Yeah, keep the info coming Steve, bugger off Wally........

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Wally

Yes he's called 4Vman.

Steve it's not my call. I'm looking at it dispassionately on the basis of your OP ....share purchase. You can take your bat and ball and go home if you like, but I would have thought you'd be eager to find out how your employer is travelling.

The $3.7b burn is actually declared. Some of the baiscs for investment is PE followed by debt equity and of course ROI. Creative accounting is what got wall street in a mess and it was all reported per the US govt requirements, so don't think manipulation of figures doesn't happen and that some watchdog will pick it up.

Actually wally the term is TROLL.....

[gtfpv]

i was hoping someone here made money out of this . thats the thread topic .
looks like nobody here has . funny that .

[Wally]

Originally Posted by myts

Wally your missing the point here. FoMoCo has been through the wars and is battered and bruised and is now home licking its wounds and on the improve.

Your GM. Armed with it's finest sword is about to go into a major gunfight, and if it comes out, it will be missing some pieces.

Suppliers are the issues here to me. I have a friend running trucks carting for GM. GM go down, they might just take him with them. The fact is without the help of Governments around the world they would be gone already. That Bugs me. GM and it's employees are responsible for where they are, to go into bankruptcy to avoid paying their debts is very poor form.

I'm not missing the point at all. For some reason Steve thinks I'm having a go at him .. I am not. Blind Freddy knows that Ford have been through the wringer. Unlike a few of those here I want Ford to survive and I want GM to survive. I don't derive any joy in seeing either company on it's knees and the plain truth is they both are. I agree with you that using chapter 11 as a revolving door is "poor form". If you (and Steve) had actually tracked my previous posts you would have noted I stated the GM chief was a poor manager and a month later he was gone. I have not said anything derogatory about Ford management although my personal groupie and liebchen, 4Vman would argue otherwise to stir the pot. The $3.7b cash burn is self evident on the interim finacial report, I really don't know why Steve finds it distasteful to acknowledge it.

And Steve, even though you have made up your mind I'm a bogeyman and soliciting member support at my expense, reread what I have posted with defensive mode switched off and you will see I haven't demonised you like you have me. You did pose a question:

Now, tell me what company you work for and I will inform you about it with more information than you know about it, even though you work there, experience the operations on a daily basis, receive company bulletins, attend ..

1. I own the company and it does very well thankyou.

2. Ford have a statutory requirement to disclose all pertinent facts for shareholder and market discrmination. I have limited my comments to those disclosures, if you have additional information you have not revealed same and it is unfair of you to use priveliged information as a weapon against me.

3. I was also of the opinion you were an alright sought of bloke, I'm sorry you have interpretted my resistance to brand loyalty as a slight on your character and employer.

[vztrt]

Ford selling 300 million more shares.

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-n...0512-b0wv.html

Ford launches shares public offering
May 12, 2009 - 8:09AM

Ford Motor Co said Monday it is launching a public offering of 300 million shares of common stock, which it will use in part to help fund its retiree health care trust.

Ford, the only US automaker that has not accepted government aid, said it will use the proceeds of the offering to pay for "general corporate purposes," including funding its Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association, or VEBA, with cash instead of stock.

Dearborn, Michigan-based Ford owes $US6.3 billion ($A8.21 billion) to its VEBA by the end of this year. In March, United Auto Workers members approved a new contract that, besides freezing wages and cutting benefits, allows Ford to use stock to make payments to the retiree health care trust.

At Ford's closing price of $US6.08 per share on Monday, the offering would net the company $US1.82 billion ($A2.37 billion). However, the announcement sent shares of Ford sliding in after-hours trading. The stock lost 29 cents, or 4.9 per cent, to $US5.78 after the closing bell.

Shares of Ford have enjoyed a strong rally in recent months, with some investors saying it is well-positioned to recover once the vehicle market improves. The company has also been picking up market share amid deeper problems at its crosstown competitors, Chrysler LLC and General Motors Corp.

Chrysler filed for bankruptcy protection earlier this month, while GM is working to restructure out of court but may also face bankruptcy. The companies have received billions in government loans, which Ford has not asked for.

Sales at Ford are down 40 per cent for the first four months of the year. Industrywide sales are off 37 per cent during the same period.

As part of the offering announced Monday, Ford is granting the underwriters a 30-day option to purchase up to 45 million additional shares. Citi, Goldman Sachs & Co., JPMorgan and Morgan Stanley are the offering's joint book-running managers.

© 2009 AP

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Ford selling 300 million more shares.

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-n...0512-b0wv.html

Perfect timing on the back of recent share price strength to raise Capitol.

Significant amount of dilution though and will put downward pressure on share price going forward.

Issue price will be interesting.

[Ohio XB]

Been checking in on this all day. So far over 200 million shares traded. Average is 70 million. Watching the action live you can see jumps of 4,000 - 20,000 shares at a time in one second.


Steve

[shakows]

GM on the hand, are having even the Executives sell there shares, its going to be worthless soon

http://business.theglobeandmail.com/..._gam_mostemail

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Been checking in on this all day. So far over 200 million shares traded. Average is 70 million. Watching the action live you can see jumps of 4,000 - 20,000 shares at a time in one second.


Steve

Yes quite normal.

With such an announcement of Capitol raising, it's not uncommon for Fund Managers to sell the news, particularly when the same Funds will be buying the new issue at a discount.

Note the price is down 17% overnight...

Just as expected.

[vztrt]

Share price fell 18%

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-n...0513-b2ij.html

Ford shares sink on share offering
May 13, 2009 - 10:44AM

Shares of Ford Motor Company tumbled nearly 18 per cent on Tuesday after the car maker said it will sell 300 million common shares to help fund its health care trust for retired autoworkers and general operations.

Ford, the only major US car maker that has not accepted government aid, had seen shares rally in recent weeks while its bailed-out Detroit competitors fight for survival.

But shares of Dearborn, Michigan-based Ford fell $US1.07 on Tuesday to close at $US5.01 on news of the stock sale.

Analysts noted that share value generally falls once a large offering is disclosed as existing investors shrink positions before they can be diluted.

Ford said late on Tuesday it agreed to sell the 300 million shares at the discounted price of $US4.75 each for total proceeds of about $US1.4 billion ($A1.83 billion).

That amount would cover a $US1.2 billion ($A1.57 billion) cash payment due December 31 to Ford's Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association, or VEBA.

Ford has the option to make a $US610 million ($A797.59 million) payment - also due on that date - in cash or stock.

The company owes $US13.1 billion ($A17.13 billion) to its VEBA by 2022, of which $US6.5 billion ($A8.5 billion) can be paid in stock, cash or a combination of both.

In March, United Auto Workers members approved a new contract that, besides freezing wages and cutting benefits, allows Ford to use stock to make payments to the retiree health care trust.

"While we continue to see recent actions to strengthen its balance sheet and reduce structural costs as positives for Ford, we remain sceptical of the recent run-up in stock price," said Barclays Capital analyst Brian Johnson in a research note.

"However, the opportunity to fund the VEBA at $6 per share versus $US2 per share reduces potential dilution."

Johnson raised his price target of Ford to $US2 from $US1.

The public stock offering is 105-year-old Ford Motor Company's first since the Ford Foundation liquidated its shares of the company in 1956 and the automaker became a publicly traded company. Since then, the number of its shares has multiplied with employee stock option grants, stock splits and preferred stock offerings.

Ford has been picking up market share amid deeper problems at its crosstown competitors, Chrysler LLC and General Motors Corp. In April, record sales of its fuel-efficient Fusion pushed it past Toyota to retake its post as the nation's No.2 car seller.

Even though Ford's monthly sales tumbled 32 per cent from a year earlier, it captured 16 per cent of the total market. Most of those gains came at the expense of GM and Chrysler. April marked the sixth time in seven months that Ford gained retail market share.

Chrysler filed for bankruptcy protection earlier this month, while GM is working to restructure out of court but may also face bankruptcy.

Shares of GM fell 20 per cent or 29 cents to close Tuesday $US1.15, as investors fear significant dilution of their stock values or bankruptcy as the company approaches a June 1 restructuring deadline.

© 2009 AP

[Ohio XB]

Why Ford took this action, beyond the above article...

FORD RAISES $1.4 BILLION THROUGH COMMON STOCK OFFERING



DEARBORN, Mich., May 12, 2009 – Ford Motor Company (NYSE: F) announced today that it has agreed to sell 300 million shares of its common stock in a public offering at a price of $4.75 per share for total gross proceeds of approximately $1.4 billion.



Ford also granted to the underwriters a 30-day option to purchase up to 45 million additional shares of common stock to cover over-allotments.



Net proceeds to Ford from the offering are expected to be used for general corporate purposes, including to fund with cash, instead of stock, a portion of the payments the company is required to make to the Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA) retiree health care trust with the United Auto Workers.



“We are pleased with this equity offering, which is another key step in our plan to transform Ford into an exciting, viable enterprise poised to return to profitability,” said Alan Mulally, Ford president and CEO. “By issuing equity now and potentially funding a larger portion of our future VEBA obligations with cash, we are able to further improve our balance sheet and significantly reduce the potential dilutive impact of the VEBA obligations on existing shareholders.”


Under the previously announced agreement in principle with the UAW, Ford has the option to settle up to 50 percent of its obligations to the VEBA in shares of Ford common stock. That includes three separate payments of $610 million due in December 2009, June 2010 and June 2011.



If Ford were to elect to settle those obligations by issuing stock to the VEBA, the number of shares Ford would have to issue would be calculated at the following share prices: December 2009: $2.00; June 2010: $2.10; and June 2011: $2.20. By accessing the equity market now and potentially using the proceeds to pay those VEBA obligations in cash, Ford is not only strengthening its balance sheet, but also significantly reducing the potential future dilutive impact of the UAW agreement.



Citi, Goldman, Sachs & Co., J.P. Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Deutsche Bank Securities Inc. and Merrill Lynch & Co. are acting as joint book-running managers of the offering.



Ford has filed a registration statement – including a prospectus – with the SEC for the offering to which this communication relates. Before investing, investors should read the prospectus in that registration statement and other documents Ford has filed with the SEC for more complete information about Ford and this offering.



Investors may obtain these documents for free by visiting EDGAR on the SEC Web site at www.sec.gov. Alternatively, the issuer, any underwriter or any dealer participating in the offering will arrange to send the prospectus and the prospectus supplement upon request by calling Citi at 800) 831-9146; Goldman, Sachs & Co. at (212) 902-1171 or (866) 471-2526; J.P. Morgan Securities Inc. at (718) 242-8002; Morgan Stanley & Co. Incorporated at (866) 718-1649; Deutsche Bank Securities Inc. at (800) 503-4611; or Merrill Lynch & Co. at (866) 500-5408.