Australian Drivers Are Ignoring LPG - Page 2

mcnews · 07-08-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

No offence, but you will NEVER those figures from city driving out of a Falcon. You'd be lucky to get under 13L/100km in the city, and that's with sedate, careful driving.

Regards,
Dave

My six speed auto F6 generally averages just under 13 litres per 100km on the city cycle. The last normal non turbo Falcon I had as a hire car averaged just over 10 litres per 100km. On the highway cycle the F6 averages around 11 per 100km. Even towing a 1250kg caravan wind brick across Australia averaging speeds above what are allowed to be quoted here it returned 16 litres per 100km. And I believe the FG Turbos are supposedly better again. If you are using four speed auto figures from BA to go on you are miles behind the times.

**Luke Plaizier** · 07-08-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducati888

I went to trade the Verada in June, and the dealer told me that a V6 on LPG is not a selling point, in fact its seen as a bad thing on the lot (so he said).

Ouch. The word of a car dealer. It must be true then.

Lukeyson

Road_Warrior · 07-08-2009, 02:02 PM

LPG is a poofter fuel, and it smells and only philistines and taxis use it. In fact, I don't know why anyone would bother with it because it makes the car run like poo and uses quadruple the amount to petrol.

That's right people, there's nothing to see here, move along now. Head for the mountains.

PoweredByCNG · 07-08-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

If you are using four speed auto figures from BA to go on you are miles behind the times.

Nope, I'm going on FG (XT) figures. 14.5 urban for petrol and 20.1 urban for E-gas.

Regards,
Dave

Road_Warrior · 07-08-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The installation and upfront costs of the L.I kits are frightening...

I'll admit that the only thing that made that factor viable for me was the rebates. But with only an $1800 'gap' to pay, my SVI system will pay for itself in 12-18 months.

PoweredByCNG · 07-08-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

Thanks Dave

Gee I need to proof-read my posts before I submit them

e

What I meant to say was:

"(The bad reputation of some) Conversion centres also do(es) NOTHING to convince 'Joe Public' - there are too many installers who are incompetent or simply DO NOT CARE about the quality of their services. It is these installers that drag the respected installers down to a low level."

Regards,
Dave

Mr Hardware · 07-08-2009, 02:09 PM

I ran a dozen of each in a fleet situation for 3 years and economy was at worst 30% more than petrol, not 70%.

Mr Hardware · 07-08-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

LPG is a poofter fuel, and it smells and only philistines and taxis use it. In fact, I don't know why anyone would bother with it because it makes the car run like poo and uses quadruple the amount to petrol.

That's right people, there's nothing to see here, move along now. Head for the mountains.

I see what you did there. Nice.

perthxr6t · 07-08-2009, 02:31 PM

I wonder if farting in the gas tank would = octane booster = more power.

Octane booster ratings

Baked Beans 10/10
Chilly Con Carne 9/10
Meat lovers Pizza 8/10
Pickled Onions 7/10
Vindaloo curry 6/10 because it's more likely to run down your leg
Wok in a Box 5/10
KFC,Hungry Jacks etc 4/10

XR6Runner · 07-08-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perthxr6t

I wonder if farting in the gas tank would = octane booster = more power.

Octane booster ratings

Baked Beans 10/10
Chilly Con Carne 9/10
Meat lovers Pizza 8/10
Pickled Onions 7/10
Vindaloo curry 6/10 because it's more likely to run down your leg
Wok in a Box 5/10
KFC,Hungry Jacks etc 4/10

hahaha Nice!

gtfpv · 07-08-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Oh dear, there's a passionate Nexus magazine reading conspiracy theorist in our midst.

Man, they did land on the moon, how many more people does Buzz Aldrin have to punch out to prove it?

Lukeyson

if you look closely at the moon mobiles ( cars ) you can see the red LPG sticker on the front and back bumpers, on the appollo 17 mission

:

**Falcon Coupe** · 07-08-2009, 04:33 PM

The main reasons i see LPG being ignored is the costly conversion and compromise of space having two fuel systems
I can see the popularity soaring if more car manufactures stopped ignoring LPG and fitted dedicated gas from the factory.

For example the duel cab ute market has been huge for years now yet none have dedicated LPG, i can see the first company to do it being on a winner.

Road_Warrior · 07-08-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

The main reasons i see LPG being ignored is the costly conversion and compromise of space having two fuel systems
I can see the popularity soaring if more car manufactures stopped ignoring LPG and fitted dedicated gas from the factory.

For example the duel cab ute market has been huge for years now yet none have dedicated LPG, i can see the first company to do it being on a winner.

Pretty much.

Although not a dual cab, there was available, until recently, a ute with a one-tonne payload, modest off road capability, and dedicated gas from the factory. Ooh gee I wonder what it was? Oh that's right, the RTV! Good one Ford

:

mcnews · 07-08-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Pretty much.

Although not a dual cab, there was available, until recently, a ute with a one-tonne payload, modest off road capability, and dedicated gas from the factory. Ooh gee I wonder what it was? Oh that's right, the RTV! Good one Ford

:

And if it came with the six speed auto and a few bits of fruit I would have probably bought one!

Road_Warrior · 07-08-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

And if it came with the six speed auto and a few bits of fruit I would have probably bought one!

Funny you should mention that, I was only thinking the other day if any V8 RTV's were built in BF guise, because if they were, they would have come with the ZF!

PoweredByCNG · 07-08-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

The main reasons i see LPG being ignored is the costly conversion and compromise of space having two fuel systems

Speaking of which, I'd love to see how Ford have integrated the liquid injection fuel tanks into the FG. As the consumption should be considerably lower, there won't be a need for 93L or 116L tanks (sedan/wagon). Maybe we'll see the retention of the spare wheel in the spare wheel well on the sedans.

Regards,
Dave

vztrt · 07-08-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Funny you should mention that, I was only thinking the other day if any V8 RTV's were built in BF guise, because if they were, they would have come with the ZF!

There were BF RTV V8's, but they were 4 speed.

Road_Warrior · 07-08-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

There were BF RTV V8's, but they were 4 speed.

Whaaaaaaatt!! How? Why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Speaking of which, I'd love to see how Ford have integrated the liquid injection fuel tanks into the FG. As the consumption should be considerably lower, there won't be a need for 93L or 116L tanks (sedan/wagon). Maybe we'll see the retention of the spare wheel in the spare wheel well on the sedans.

Regards,
Dave

Even if the new system will be super duper efficient on L/100, they will still need a decent sized tank. The 60-odd litre donut tank will still be the standard, as it is now.

They might have to look at the olden days method with putting the spare back into a side-mount spare tyre well.

The only thing I can see helping is if the FGII (or whatever it will be) has a plastic spare wheel well/boot floor as has been mooted - this could introduce a fair degree of design flexibility to the boot floor. And perhaps make the spare wheel well deeper and wider so a narrower gas tank can be used, and then a spare tyre can be mounted on top of it without fagging up the boot space, however the combined weight will surely push a plastic floor/spare wheel well way past its strength limitations.

vztrt · 07-08-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Whaaaaaaatt!! How? Why?

Why did the BFII XR6 ute only get a 5 speed manual. Cause it did.

Road_Warrior · 07-08-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Why did the BFII XR6 ute only get a 5 speed manual. Cause it did.

Yeah but on the rest of the BF and BFII range, the XR6 (NA) got the 5 speed too, but on the BF the ZF was standard fare with a V8 across the range - apart from the RTV it seems?

vztrt · 07-08-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Yeah but on the rest of the BF and BFII range, the XR6 (NA) got the 5 speed too, but on the BF the ZF was standard fare with a V8 across the range - apart from the RTV it seems?

Sedan XR6 N/A got the 6 speed man, XT had the 5 speed.

pauljh74 · 07-08-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJXR6

One thing that steered me away from LPG is after riding in a cab, how bad the cabin smelled of gas, the horrible sucky wheezy feeling the motor gave out, and just how cheap the car felt. I know it's not the best example, but I also feel gas is a bit of a cop out. Unless it's LI it's not for me. And it smells.

Sure it wasn't just the taxi driver that smelled?

**russellw** · 07-08-2009, 06:25 PM

The problem with LPG has always been one of the perceived image it has. I'm no fan of it in vehicles (it's fine to run BBQs) but the reality is that the earlier systems were primitive, plagued with issues and (in dual fuel installations) inefficient.

Yes, it has improved markedly since those early days but it has also had enough bad publicity that it will need a major re-education process (and better systems) before it is going to have any chance outside of the tiny fraction of the market it currently has.

It also needs more manufacturers to prepare their engines for it or we'll continue to see issues like the Toyota L/T range have had with premature head failures post conversion.

The loss of storage space in dual fuel installation is an issue - after all people buy large cars for their space and that includes luggage space so if you take up half of it with a gas tank that is hardly going to be pleasing. Even the DLPG installations lose boot space and this has no doubt impacted on sales.

Likewise, the filling process is hardly user friendly for a lot of people and while the availability has improved markedly it is still short of where it needs to be - although probably not a lot worse than trying to find 98ULP outside the major metros.

The migration to diesel is frankly laughable in the metropolitan areas - most people won't recoup the additional purchase price premium during a normal 3 year 50,000 km ownership cycle and although the economy is admirable, neither the performance or fuel price are likely to leave you smiling. The best case scenario is that the resale value reflects enough of the initial price premium to create a break even situation and all the owner has suffered then is the "joy" of driving the slug.

IF the LPG systems that we have been promised come to fruition AND the packaging of them is efficient AND the federal tax grab doesn't substantially impact the price advantage AND a marketing campaign can improve the perceived image of the fuel AND the price of petrol stays high AND the planets all align themselves the right way, then maybe this situation will change.

Personally I see more likelihood of my being nominated for sexiest man of the year.

Russ

GT · 07-08-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

Personally I see more likelihood of my being nominated for sexiest man of the year.

Russ

I'll vote for you Baby!

ILLaViTaR · 07-08-2009, 06:42 PM

What I don't get is idiots who should be isolated form the public whom rant over LPG exploding.

It's pressurised for gods sake, petrol isn't. How can something ignite when the pressure is exponentially lower than the outside atmosphere. These same people would probably argue water is an explosive, why not, it's pretty much the same principle that they argue with LPG?

It's like believing a AA battery left in the sun could become unstable and cause an explosion 2km in diameter.

ILLaViTaR · 07-08-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

Sure it wasn't just the taxi driver that smelled?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Joke of the year.

Ok if that LPG was set on fire it would catch flame and evapourate .5 seconds later, once the flame reaches the tank it'll cease due to the flame not being able to get into the tank because a force (pressure) is pushing it backwards. A lot like 2 + magnets.

Whereas petrol will instantly catch, however I don't think it explodes cause it's a spirit, but it can if spilled on the floor or on an almost bone dry tank.

It's like the people who slander about Man evolving from Monkeys, It's like saying the 4WD came directly after the wheel. These stupid misconceptions are what keep holding technology back.

4Vman · 07-08-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Joke of the year.

Ok if that LPG was set on fire it would catch flame and evapourate .5 seconds later, once the flame reaches the tank it'll cease due to the flame not being able to get into the tank because a force (pressure) is pushing it backwards. A lot like 2 + magnets.

Whereas petrol will instantly catch, however I don't think it explodes cause it's a spirit, but it can if spilled on the floor or on an almost bone dry tank.

It's like the people who slander about Man evolving from Monkeys, It's like saying the 4WD came directly after the wheel. These stupid misconceptions are what keep holding technology back.

Amazing..... ive learnt so much tonight.....

RG · 07-08-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

What I don't get is idiots who should be isolated form the public whom rant over LPG exploding.

It's pressurised for gods sake, petrol isn't. How can something ignite when the pressure is exponentially lower than the outside atmosphere. These same people would probably argue water is an explosive, why not, it's pretty much the same principle that they argue with LPG?

It's like believing a AA battery left in the sun could become unstable and cause an explosion 2km in diameter.

I can't believe that you can actually see any logic in this post or the one below it.

You do realise that LPG is actually flammable right? Also how can it be pressurised if it has a pressure "exponentially" lower than outside atmosphere? Wouldn't that be de-pressurised?

You've really confused me here.

flappist · 07-08-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Joke of the year.

Ok if that LPG was set on fire it would catch flame and evapourate .5 seconds later, once the flame reaches the tank it'll cease due to the flame not being able to get into the tank because a force (pressure) is pushing it backwards. A lot like 2 + magnets.

Whereas petrol will instantly catch, however I don't think it explodes cause it's a spirit, but it can if spilled on the floor or on an almost bone dry tank.

It's like the people who slander about Man evolving from Monkeys, It's like saying the 4WD came directly after the wheel. These stupid misconceptions are what keep holding technology back.

Yep, your understanding of chemistry is just an broad and complete as your understanding of almost everything else you write about on here.

PoweredByCNG · 07-08-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Even if the new system will be super duper efficient on L/100, they will still need a decent sized tank. The 60-odd litre donut tank will still be the standard, as it is now.

FYI, the E-gas sedans have tank design that allows it to hold 93-litres of LPG.

Regards,
Dave