Hooning.....and the gov. response to it.... - Page 2

**SSD-85** · 02-02-2010, 10:10 PM

A very good article, that essentially speaks of what we all have been saying for some time. However, since it does not propose a way of making the government money, like the existing system, then i would doubt it going much further than this. But then again, as it suggests, votes are an important factor. And if the public is sick of hearing about the current methods only succeeding in making money, as opposed to saving lives, then we may see some change.

91'dSpecEB · 02-02-2010, 10:11 PM

Sick to death of 'hoon' laws and media coverage and stories on 'hoons'. Finally some sence..

ltd_on20s · 02-02-2010, 11:35 PM

as much as i hate to say it, even though you want cops on your side, it's almost at the point of saying to them

"look mr officer, i will be recording this conversation on my phone/video camera for future reference as i believe i am being targeted for driving a nice vehicle.

you know, just in case.

will it p*** them off? of course

is it their fault? no.

is it your fault? no.

and if you advise them that your are going to record proceedings, you can always refer back to it if you wish to defend anything...

Bobman · 02-02-2010, 11:54 PM

Agree with the recording thing.

A mate was pulled over and the officer was giving him a hard time, but as soon as he got his video camera out the policeman began to be nice and careful of what he said.

It's always worth having a recording device for your own sake.

mik · 03-02-2010, 01:24 AM

+1 a good article and all fair comments .

Belial · 03-02-2010, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

this is why you take it to court or something to explain the situation.

Here's me a few years ago.
I was stuck behind a Gemini, blowing thick smoke, non-working driverside tail light and sitting 10+ km/h under the speed limit.
I finally had an chance at passing them as we drove under the West Gate Bridge heading towards Williamstown.

I indicated, moved over to the left, put my foot down a bit (NOT enough to drop back a gear in the Auto) over took the ancient driver and then indicated to move back into the left lane.
For those of you from Melbourne you may know that there is a BP refinery just after the bridge, hence why I wanted to move back over incase of a B Double leaving BP.

Through a reserve a Police car was watching me with their radar gun.
They came and pulled me over and asked why I was doing 71km/h in a 60km/h zone? I explained as above and was told to sit tight while he went back to his car.

The officer returned with a fine and said "Watch your speed"

I wanted to take it to court and received a transcript from the Police before my court date.

The police statement said that:
I was driving a Blue Pulsar (Well actually it was a Green EB Falcon!) and
the passenger from the Police car checked my registration sticker (He never got out of the car!)
And I stated that I was in a hurry........
When infact I was almost 1hr early to a friends dinner party.

When I was in court the Magistrate asked if I was guilty and I said
"I overtook an un-roadworthy vehicle with a driver driving well below the speed limit and was at a senior age, I would like to add the Police statement is grossly incorrect"
To which she replied "Did you travel at 71km/h in a 60km/h zone?"
I said "Well, yes"
And she struck her little hammer and said "GUILTY"

I have the upmost respect for the Police and was a Security Guard (Bouncer) for 8 yrs.

I will always bat for the Police, but what does this say about the courts and the rushed statements of Police when the courts get involved.

Guilty until proven innocent by a manipulating lawyer!

Belial · 03-02-2010, 04:05 AM

another thing via MY understanding..

Enthusiast=
Someone who spends thousands of dollars and man hours on their cars and MAY give it a "Squirt" in a predomently safe situation.

Hoon=
Someone who spends thousands of dollars on a car and thinks they can can drive it like the Stig on public roads.

Your R33 Skyline or XR6T may be fast, that doesn't mean drive like a twat!
If they think a punch in the mouth hurts, wait until they hit a tree.

I can go on for hours and hours, but the difference is when I decide to drive a little "Silly" there is no one around, I put my mobile phone in my pocket (so it doesn't go flying God knows where), there is no one in the car with me and I read the road and most importantly listen to what my car is telling me!

Franco Cozzo · 03-02-2010, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belial

I can go on for hours and hours, but the difference is when I decide to drive a little "Silly" there is no one around, I put my mobile phone in my pocket (so it doesn't go flying God knows where), there is no one in the car with me and I read the road and most importantly listen to what my car is telling me!

Yes if you had to hoon, it would be the right thing, but its still "hooning", no?

UNR8D · 03-02-2010, 10:36 AM

No, its called time and place.

There isn’t an English definition of HOON, its slang; hell even American spell check hates the word.

HOON was never a word for speeding/skids/drift, but it seems even if you take it to the track the media call it hooning

: majority of the public and journalists need their heads cubed and have some form of understanding of WTF they are on about before putting it on the front page and call it hooning, its DANGEROUS DRIVING, or SPEEDING not HOONING morons.

XRtowcar · 03-02-2010, 04:39 PM

Happened to search street drifting on Youtube to find a bunch of plain idiots using public roads in all states as there personal racetrack.
Crushing there cars seems OK by me.
As UNR8D said time and place is the difference between a hoon and a car enthusiast.
My car does 190kmh, drops a mean burnout and slides nicely around corners when i'm at the tracks i race on (Sandown, Phillip Island etc).
These guys can choose to try racetracks but dont, cos they think its cooler to do it on a public road.
Jail isn't too much for them.

Poetic Justice · 04-02-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaniard

Which makes it easy for the whole your word against mine and that is just stupid. All in all, (strictly speaking) it's a very shaky legal position for the common person but, because they are an officer of the law, their word is considered valid and, for some ridiculous reason, accepted. Why the double standard?

Can't say I necessarily agree with that.

A decent lawyer talking to a judge about your take on the events, especially if you have not offended before (no priors), will work wonders on telling the Judge that you have been treated a little more harshly than was necessary.

Poetic Justice · 04-02-2010, 10:36 PM

eeeeeeeeep

Poetic Justice · 04-02-2010, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

These guys can choose to try racetracks but dont, cos they think its cooler to do it on a public road.
Jail isn't too much for them.

True they can, but they don't.

I don't believe it's because they think it's cooler either.

It's got something to do with a major problem with Generation-Y: over all laziness.

They don't have the willpower to ensure their car will pass scrutineers. Make sure that if they do burnouts at the track they have spare tyres to drive home or organise a tow home. What if the engine breaks whilst they're there? That's tow money. Whether or not it can happen on the track or the street it seems to be a thought pattern when processing when to go to a track.

Not to mention the entry fee ($50 for calder, isn't it?)

Not to mention driving to Calder, if you're from the Eastern Suburbs like me.

The end result? ******** it we'll go do some skids in the industrial estate.

They don't consider jail because time and time again you read about hoons getting busted big time and getting fines and license suspensions? Jail time? Kill someone maybe, but a simple hooning charge is not at this stage going to result in that outcome. That's reality.

SEZ213 · 07-02-2010, 12:02 AM

Here's a novel suggestion - you need a licence to own/buy a gun. They do a police check on you to purchase this said product. Why on earth don't they do a police check on you or make sure you have to have a licence to buy a car? Seems logical to me, but maybe I'm just old fashioned - guns kill things, apparently cars don't...

Anyone can go buy a car, hoon or not. There is no physical restriction. I guess the real problem seems to be, that those children who don't respect their parents, turn into adolescents who don't respect authority, who turn into the socially unadjusted plebs of society who flout every law known to man, draining our well structured system to go back to the same soft judge who gives them yet another slap on the wrist for being a complete idiot, and sends them on their way, only to reoffend a short time later; simply because the punishment didn't deter them. As a teenager I was too scared to do anything stupid for fear that both the police and my parents would kick my rear end if I was caught. We've softened our views on society, to follow the yanks way of thinking, and it's not helping. You now can't discipline your own child...goodbye socially well adjusted, our world is going to be overrun by idiots, and the government can be thanked for that, let's take the soft approach on everything, from education to justice. I'm going to sound old here, however, when I was a child, I was disciplined if I did something wrong. I respected my elders and I respected those things that were not mine. The inconvenient truth is that somewhere along the line between the dole bludgers and the other plebs of society, we appear to be supporting those who make poor life decisions and beating other's about the head for a small misdemeanor. Speeding isn't bad, speeding excessively is bad. Hooning isn't bad, providing it's done in the appropriate places. I do however, fail to see how providing people with a location to hoon is going to prevent them from doing it on the streets? It's an all too common occurrence leaving drag racing events to see some dumb s*** going sideways down the road because he thinks he's invincible.

Recently there was a study that came out, that suggested that it wasn't until you were 25 that your brain became fully developed. If this is the case, and the government are actually concerned about this kind of thing, why wouldn't they just lift the limits to 25...? Yes, I know, it's probably hard given the current legislation, but it would surely show that the government wasn't just interested in money, but in ensuring that the population of Australia stays safe!

I think I can safely say, after a near miss at losing my legs from being a passenger in an accident with a hoon, that all the talk in the world won't solve this problem. What really needs to happen is some stricter laws, punishments that will actually deter people from offending time and time again.

flappist · 07-02-2010, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

These guys can choose to try racetracks but dont, cos they think its cooler to do it on a public road.
Jail isn't too much for them.

Nearest race track to me, 700km round trip and I am in the heavily populated part of QLD. How far is it from Melbourne to Sydney?

Not everything is totally black and white.

While I am not in favour of doing crazy things around town I can see the logic in the illegal activity that happens here.

When the "enthusiasts" want to play they go out in the middle of woop woop, post sentries at each end of the location to warn of any inbound traffic (including cars with a disco fetish) and play for a time before dispersing.

VERY illegal but really no more dangerous than on a track.

Occasionally the police wander out and throw rocks but usually they get there just after everyone has gone.
Maybe they see an advantage in a little "steam letting" away from the populace possibly reducing stupidity around town.

flappist · 07-02-2010, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Here's a novel suggestion - you need a licence to own/buy a gun. They do a police check on you to purchase this said product. Why on earth don't they do a police check on you or make sure you have to have a licence to buy a car? Seems logical to me, but maybe I'm just old fashioned - guns kill things, apparently cars don't...

Anyone can go buy a car, hoon or not. There is no physical restriction. I guess the real problem seems to be, that those children who don't respect their parents, turn into adolescents who don't respect authority, who turn into the socially unadjusted plebs of society who flout every law known to man, draining our well structured system to go back to the same soft judge who gives them yet another slap on the wrist for being a complete idiot, and sends them on their way, only to reoffend a short time later; simply because the punishment didn't deter them. As a teenager I was too scared to do anything stupid for fear that both the police and my parents would kick my rear end if I was caught. We've softened our views on society, to follow the yanks way of thinking, and it's not helping. You now can't discipline your own child...goodbye socially well adjusted, our world is going to be overrun by idiots, and the government can be thanked for that, let's take the soft approach on everything, from education to justice. I'm going to sound old here, however, when I was a child, I was disciplined if I did something wrong. I respected my elders and I respected those things that were not mine. The inconvenient truth is that somewhere along the line between the dole bludgers and the other plebs of society, we appear to be supporting those who make poor life decisions and beating other's about the head for a small misdemeanor. Speeding isn't bad, speeding excessively is bad. Hooning isn't bad, providing it's done in the appropriate places. I do however, fail to see how providing people with a location to hoon is going to prevent them from doing it on the streets? It's an all too common occurrence leaving drag racing events to see some dumb s*** going sideways down the road because he thinks he's invincible.

Recently there was a study that came out, that suggested that it wasn't until you were 25 that your brain became fully developed. If this is the case, and the government are actually concerned about this kind of thing, why wouldn't they just lift the limits to 25...? Yes, I know, it's probably hard given the current legislation, but it would surely show that the government wasn't just interested in money, but in ensuring that the population of Australia stays safe!

I think I can safely say, after a near miss at losing my legs from being a passenger in an accident with a hoon, that all the talk in the world won't solve this problem. What really needs to happen is some stricter laws, punishments that will actually deter people from offending time and time again.

In QLD you need a QLD drivers license to transfer rego into your name and if you do not transfer the rego then the car will not have plates and the dealer will not let you drive it away....

Nikked · 07-02-2010, 01:29 AM

The silly thing is, "hooning" has little effect in the road toll. Its like (excuse my example) blaming the Jews on the world problems.

Its unfounded, and has no cause. Most enthusiasts (or "hoons") who decide to do the unthinkable in public do it in a area /place that is not likely to harm the average Joe. It is the simplest way to get the majority of the voters on side and destroy car enthusiast. The bloke who does a skid in a 351 XB on a is being tarnished with the same brush as the idiot who slammed into a tree at 160 k/ph with 6 kids whilst puffing .16 (or whatever it was).

I thought a democracy was meant to be "free"

Long live Australia's descent into dictatorship

Swordsman88 · 07-02-2010, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Nearest race track to me, 700km round trip and I am in the heavily populated part of QLD. How far is it from Melbourne to Sydney?

Not everything is totally black and white.

While I am not in favour of doing crazy things around town I can see the logic in the illegal activity that happens here.

When the "enthusiasts" want to play they go out in the middle of woop woop, post sentries at each end of the location to warn of any inbound traffic (including cars with a disco fetish) and play for a time before dispersing.

VERY illegal but really no more dangerous than on a track.

Occasionally the police wander out and throw rocks but usually they get there just after everyone has gone.
Maybe they see an advantage in a little "steam letting" away from the populace possibly reducing stupidity around town.

This sort of thing has been going down for decades (esp in more rural areas) and barring the odd bingle (and very rare injury/death) has been very trouble free. I'm not saying it is as safe as a proper track (with emergency services in attendance) but it is very very different then hooning around any sort of populated area.

Dangerous driving is just that...its dangerous. But to be dangerous you need to have to put someone in danger. Now at worst a bit of excitement in your car in a deserted rural road endangers yourself, your car, some shrubbery and a rabit. It can't possibly hurt anyone else (save your family who will have to deal with the aftermath if you take yourself out).

As with everything in life its risk management. 90% of the 'hoon' deaths you read about had no understanding of logic or basic sense let alone things like road surface, traffic, car handling, safety margins etc. No matter how inapropriate a speed limit may seem (60km/h on a multi lane deserted road at 3am for example) physics still applies. You can't safely drive at say, 120km/h+ in any sort of 60-80 zone....the road setup doesn't allow it (median strips, intersections, houses etc. etc.). PLus, the risk of somone walking out on teh road (drunk etc) is too great and it is not reasonable for any other road users (who may just be on their way to an early work shift) to anticipate a fellow road users doing 50% more than the post limit...they might turn out onto the road without realising your closing speed.

As i noted when i started the thread, laws already exist for dangerous use of a motor vehicle (or speeding, driving under the influence of alcohol/drugs, unroadworthy or unregistered cars etc.). Hooning legislation is a politically motivated cocept that is both ill defined and uncessary. Existing laws would more than cover the 'hooning' on display in recent crashes....

What is needed is a focus on instilling a proper amount of respect and understanding of a motor car when you get your license in the first place. This, combined with proper training and targeted restrictions on younger (and older repeat offenders) drivers will help to ensure that when people get in a car they realise it is a privilege not a right, and that they are 100% responsible for the operation of what can be a 1-3 tonne weapon.... The final action would be to establish meaningful policing and punishment for driving infringements of any kind...not a focus on wheel spin at traffic lights or doing 5km/h over on the highway, but going after real honest to god anti-social nutjobs that endanger the public when behind the wheel.....

UNR8D · 07-02-2010, 02:51 AM

Quote:

It's got something to do with a major problem with Generation-Y: over all laziness

and anyone over the age of 40 is a useless, uneducated unhinged twat?

how about next time you make statements like that you just think it through a little more ;)

Nikked · 07-02-2010, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Nearest race track to me, 700km round trip and I am in the heavily populated part of QLD. How far is it from Melbourne to Sydney?

Not everything is totally black and white.

While I am not in favour of doing crazy things around town I can see the logic in the illegal activity that happens here.

When the "enthusiasts" want to play they go out in the middle of woop woop, post sentries at each end of the location to warn of any inbound traffic (including cars with a disco fetish) and play for a time before dispersing.

VERY illegal but really no more dangerous than on a track.

Occasionally the police wander out and throw rocks but usually they get there just after everyone has gone.
Maybe they see an advantage in a little "steam letting" away from the populace possibly reducing stupidity around town.

Agree 100%

The local police (before my time) had a unwritten law along the lines of, "You keep your antics out of the main streets an we will leave you lot alone". There was a stretch of road, a good drag strips length and all the bloke went out there for a bit of fun, untill people broke that law.

"Professional hooning" like the recent ACA vid, every corner was manned (and i have a feeling the road may have been blocked Fast and the furious style

) the bloke was showing amazing car control that the likes of an average driver don't have.

Poetic Justice · 07-02-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNR8D

and anyone over the age of 40 is a useless, uneducated unhinged twat?

how about next time you make statements like that you just think it through a little more ;)

It wasn't me who said the statistics about hooning points to the majority of those caught are under 25.

My point had everything to do with my point and no inference to any other point.

Don't put words in my... keyboard.

UNR8D · 07-02-2010, 11:43 AM

you called all gen Y lazy etc etc, you say something like that and don't expect a rebuttal? want to blanket group a generation, expect the same in return.

zdcol71 · 07-02-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNR8D

you called all gen Y lazy etc etc, you say something like that and don't expect a rebuttal? want to blanket group a generation, expect the same in return.

UNRR8D, what he actually said was "It's got something to do with a major problem with generation y-overall laziness". I don't believe that's a blanket grouping of a generation, and if you are angry or silly enough to think it does,maybe there is a reason generation y is killing themselves (and others) at such an appaling rate on the roads.
(ps, why do you think my insurance is probably cheaper than yours?)

mrbaxr6t · 07-02-2010, 04:00 PM

I take it you are a member of GEN-Y and I also take it that you don't like generalizations - you must admit as the statistics don't lie many members of GEN-Y remain living with their parents till their late 20s many also slob out on welfare and play xbox while complaining that the world is unfair and unjust and treats them badly, and to deal with such a sad cruel world they go out and blow their welfare check on booze every second weekend on a friday/saturday night till something insane like 6 am - not all of them do this but sadly the majority do. They have it so easy compared to when I was a teen (not that long ago I am only early 30's) "P" platers were pulled over onsite and breathoed and if not that were watched, I couldn't get a car under 20 year old in my budget macdonalds wasnt 24 hr and pubs closed at 2 am - but nobody has had it harder than GEN-Y. Also I am under the impression that it was harder for those before me I remember my sisters whilst being on "P" plates not being allowed to drive above 80kmh which made them rolling roadblocks - my sisters had no internet no games consoles no cars and the pubs I think closed at midnight - but still GEN-Y complains. I think many members of GEN-Y need a bag of rapid set to harden them up fast. A big fat helping of commonsense wouldn't go astray either.

Franco Cozzo · 07-02-2010, 04:40 PM

I got no problems with the majority of Generation Y killing themselves through car accidents, alcohol and illicit drugs, just means more job opportunitys for me.

zdcol71 · 07-02-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I got no problems with the majority of Generation Y killing themselves through car accidents, alcohol and illicit drugs, just means more job opportunitys for me.

Even if this is tounge in cheek?!!??! I'm speechless.

Franco Cozzo · 07-02-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Even if this is tounge in cheek?!!??! I'm speechless.

Yeah, I should have put a smiley in like usual when I'm trying to make a smart comment. My bad.

UNR8D · 07-02-2010, 05:39 PM

I am gen Y, held a job since I was 14 and 9 months, parents could have bought me a new car and didnt, had to learn the value of money myself, I know alot of Gen Y's who fit into the same bracket as me so don't give me that crap about them being lazy/living at home/slobs of the universe.. its the same crap every generation seems to cop from the one before them, has NOTHING to do with the original topic and makes you look like a moron for having a cheap shot. Either get your facts straight or don't bother commenting.

as for stats young people have had a nack for killing themselves since before we had cars reaching 100mph, its called being inexperienced and having the need to go fast no matter what your driving/riding.

every generation has its morons, I deal with them on a daily basis in my work *yes WORK* but I don't make sweeping generalisations because I realise not everyone is from the same mould.

Swordsman88 · 07-02-2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I got no problems with the majority of Generation Y killing themselves through car accidents, alcohol and illicit drugs, just means more job opportunitys for me.

Not nice man. I am part of 'Gen Y' and i started this damn thread. I was trying to get a good rational discussion of the issues involved. I DON'T want this thread to degenerate with person attacks or nasty comments like yours. Lets keep it civil. If people really believe Gen Y are the cause of all the hooning then fine, but please explain your reasons in a civil tone.

I would also make the point that young guys (and some gals) have been killing themselves in hooning incidents for years....so pleny of other Generations were doing it then (if you use basic maths). Moreover, i'm not entirely sure the increases in accidents in recent times is a sign of the increased development/urbanisation as much as anything else. In the past, there were alot of deserted roads and/or local dragstrips/tracks to take your car to and have a bit of fun. Not so much now....

EDIT: aplogies Damo seems like i posted after you put up your response....it was a joke. Still, bit of a sick joke even for my sense of humour....

**SSD-85** · 07-02-2010, 06:03 PM

Gee, I wonder what sort of Gen X and Baby Boomers gave birth, raised and influenced these horrible little Gen Ys?

I am Gen Y and I find some of the comments on here quite offensive. After all, we could sit here and generalise YOUR generation all day. Think for a moment and realise it is individuals from ANY birth year.