Lost control of my car, have some questions. - Page 2

Pinkbits · 10-02-2010, 08:27 PM

As others have said mechanical condition of your car as well as driving to the conditions at the time plays a part in self preservation.
Also after periods of little rain and hot days, there is always a build up of contaminents on the road surface that rear their ugly head after a decent downpour, hence the roads look like they have froth on the surface after cars drive through puddles etc.

just_pazz · 10-02-2010, 08:29 PM

Mate I'm a firm believer that traction control is rubbish in a situation like that..... absolute rubbish.

Counter steering and a little throttle control would have seen you back on track no worries. Thats providing you've got a limited slip diff.

If you don't you need to be careful with the throttle as you can easily end up in a spin with a single spinner diff. I've always found NO THROTTLE till you straighten up then power on is the way to get out of it. Last thing you should do is jam the picks on.

chrisfpv · 10-02-2010, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Depends which end of the car, but there will be jack points under the side skirt, there should be small bumps to indicate their position.

Cheers for that.

**ebxr8240** · 10-02-2010, 08:34 PM

Keep in mind there was an accident in an XR6 just around the corner from home last weekend..
http://mt-druitt-standard.whereilive...lyton-tragedy/
All three young men where killed.. There was no speed involved !!!Maybe too fast for conditions !!Life is NOT a PlayStation game !!!
Modern cars handle so well that it's taken for granted!!!
Then when it rains or similar road issues .. Accidents happen !!!!!
If I was you I would go and buy yourself, friends and family a lottery ticket !!!
You could EASY be in a very cold room right now !!!
Give ya Mum & Dad a big hug !!!!
Btw I know how things happen I have worked for emergency as line worker for the local elect authority.. Seen way too many accidents, dead people !!!

YES tyres are stuffed and replace with good tyres....
Treat it as a fine to yourself...For not driving to the conditions...

**Silver Ghia** · 10-02-2010, 09:10 PM

I live in Sunbury and those roundabouts can get mighty slippery after even light rain. Vehicles turning deposit fuel, oil and other stuff on the surface.

As just_pazz said, going around these roundabouts when wet, you have to tread very carefully even if you have roadworthy tyres, be gentle on the throttle, sometimes you need to be very slow depending on the road incline etc. I've seen many cars come to grief right in front of me, I even predict that it will happen by the speed they are doing, and the trajectory they will take when grip is lost.

The more you drive, the more experience you get to prevent sliding, thats another silly omission in the licence tests.

BTW, my raingauge read exactly 50mm when I got home this afternoon.

Also BTW, while I'm typing this, I can hear the V8's revving on the wet roads in the next estate as they usually do after some rain.

madmatty · 10-02-2010, 09:23 PM

give the bloke a break.i bet hes not the first bloke to lose a rear drive falcon in the wet.
do yourself a favour and get some decent tyres.good grip in the wet could be the difference between a little lose and a bad crash.
When i drive my ba i turn the traction control off.
but i dont think it would make the car flick the other way.it cuts power to the wheels.
once there is heaps of water on the road you can aquaplain and thats nasty for any driver
my two cents.

The G6ET Spot · 10-02-2010, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR

Hey everyone,

About 1pm today I had a huge smile on my face as a rare outburst of rain came down. I'm not sure what it was like in other parts of melbourne but it was absolutely bucketing where i'm from.

Long story short I accidently (I put accidently in bold because it was really an accident) turned around a corner when the back of my BA XR6 lost traction and went out sideways.

Having never been in a situation like this before, I panicked and didn't know how to react or control the steering wheel and when the traction control kicked in, it whiped me in the opposite direction over a curb.

Inspecting my car it seems that so far the damage isn't "major" but it's still damage. From the looks of things I have a nicely sized bubble in one of my back tyres and my left fog light is hanging out.

Here are my questions:

1. What exactly have I done to my tyre? It looks normal apart from this bubble buldging from it. Is it going to explode and do I need to change my tyre asap?

2. The fog light seems to be intact and is just hanging out of the hole it sits in. Is fixing this as simple as wedging it back into the hole or do I need to do something else?

Any help is appreciated.

Firstly if you were driving to the conditions as obviously you weren't, as the traction control activated and thus shouldn't have spun you around as it is designed to stop that happening.

Secondly to the part of your post that I have highlighted.
This is a perfect example as to why there should be compulsory advance driving course for people to get their licence.
If you had done one of these courses you would have learnt in a controlled environment what to do and not out on the road where there was the chance of you hitting another car and injurying yourself and other people.

Always remember accidents don't just happen, people cause them

bingoTE50 · 10-02-2010, 10:05 PM

My take is that the traction control was off and there was a bit of over correction with the boot still in to it.
Traction control is in your right foot.
Anyway as long as it put the wind up you and you avoid it again and get some professional instruction.

pauljh74 · 10-02-2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR

I put that in because these last couple of weeks have been unbelievably hot and I really was happy to see it raining for a change.

Haven't seen a drop over in the south east of Melb. Just finished pouring the water from a washing load over what was a very dry garden.

When it has been hot dry and then it rains, extra care is needed as all the dirt and oil that has built up on the road - add water and it becomes a bit too slick. There's usually more grip in the wet when there is regular rain. Plus there's coolant drips as cars swelter in the heat and cooling systems are pushed towards the limit. Coolant = oily = slippery when added to wet roads.

pauljh74 · 10-02-2010, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

My take is that the traction control was off and there was a bit of over correction with the boot still in to it.
Traction control is in your right foot.
Anyway as long as it put the wind up you and you avoid it again and get some professional instruction.

If you go a little too hard into the corner you can slide it out without any positive throttle application - the rears just slide laterally. I've done it at 30km/h turning into a street with road camber going away. Gone in thinking wet road, turning, just hold the speed and the back has stepped out - no wheelspin from too much power. If I put the foot in I'd be smacking into the kerb and Neil Crompton would come out of nowhere commentating concerns I'd broken the watts link.

Traction control and Electronic Stability Control aren't magic cure alls. They won't stop all "losses of control". The laws of physics still apply.

04redxr8 · 10-02-2010, 10:17 PM

Firstly, traction control kills the power. I have no idea how it spun you around.

Secondly, the tyres let you down, why would you want to fix them???

There is a lot more to tyres than just tread depth. Tyres do deteriorate with age. The rubber dries and goes hard reducing the grip available. Been lots of stories recently abouit tyre shops selling old (age) tyres that are new, but have a limited life. Maybe do a search here for "tyre dating" or similar. That, plus a couple of driving courses, should help. (Don't do it on the road, You should already know why).

Also, when you do buy new tyres, don't go cheap. They are the only things keeping you on the road.

pottery beige · 10-02-2010, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_pazz

Mate I'm a firm believer that traction control is rubbish in a situation like that..... absolute rubbish.

Counter steering and a little throttle control would have seen you back on track no worries. Thats providing you've got a limited slip diff.

If you don't you need to be careful with the throttle as you can easily end up in a spin with a single spinner diff. I've always found NO THROTTLE till you straighten up then power on is the way to get out of it. Last thing you should do is jam the picks on.

Are you serious?? Traction control useless?? Try and power out of it?? And.... Possibly fishtailing into a light pole causing alot more grief?? Don't stand on the pick's??.... Give you a tip.. Driving training and the little bit.. 'get into a skid get out of a skid'.. Jump on the pick's straight away and pull it all up!!.. From Johnny Bowe's brother himself..

lubby1 · 10-02-2010, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

My take is that the traction control was off and there was a bit of over correction with the boot still in to it.
Traction control is in your right foot.
Anyway as long as it put the wind up you and you avoid it again and get some professional instruction.

+1 i think you have something there

just_pazz · 10-02-2010, 10:31 PM

Yeah I'm serious.

Sounds like you need a lesson in how to drive a car mate.

**SSD-85** · 10-02-2010, 10:32 PM

Unless the OP has taken this roundabout with some enthusiasm, then this wouldnt have happened. Ive taken plenty of roundabouts in my dead scary ol' live axl'd EL GLi with no traction issues (and im sure plenty of members here have done the same in much older falcons). Simply a matter of driving to the conditions, if you don't, well this sort of thing is bound to happen.

xtremerus · 10-02-2010, 10:38 PM

Playstation has a lot to answer, for some of the driving skills of the new breed of drivers. My 5 cents worth.

pottery beige · 10-02-2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_pazz

Yeah I'm serious.

Sounds like you need a lesson in how to drive a car mate.

lol.. I think i nearly weed myself..

just_pazz · 10-02-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

lol.. I think i nearly weed myself..

Mate if you think jamming the picks on when you are oversteering in the wet is a good idea.... well I don't know what to say.

Secondly if your unable to countersteer and apply throttle, or no throttle in a single spinner's case at the right time then perhaps a rear wheel drive vehicle is not a good idea.

bob 351 · 10-02-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Playstation has a lot to answer, for some of the driving skills of the new breed of drivers. My 5 cents worth.

your five cents worth is in fact worth millions because it is the truist statement made

Jack91 · 10-02-2010, 11:01 PM

Yep it was definately over correction or he was already in a 4 wheel slide. Cant see how traction control would have snapped it the other way. Take it as a lesson learned mate, I done something similar when I was on my p's and it was a huge eye opener. As has been said, gotta drive to the conditions and get to know the car if you want to be enthusiastic. Remember though that if there was another car or pedestrian there at that moment what could have happened. Use this as motivation before you go tokyo drifting in built up areas.

Jack91 · 10-02-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_pazz

Mate if you think jamming the picks on when you are oversteering in the wet is a good idea.... well I don't know what to say.

Secondly if your unable to countersteer and apply throttle, or no throttle in a single spinner's case at the right time then perhaps a rear wheel drive vehicle is not a good idea.

Stabbing at the brakes with all the weight on when you're facing the wrong way is instinct, it takes a fair bit of experience to break that habit.

chrisfpv · 10-02-2010, 11:05 PM

I was expecting some heat in this thread ofcourse but please understand that what happened today was not intentional at all. I have no reason to make this thread and lie about it.

just_pazz you're right, i'm not the best driver in the world as i've had my P plates for maybe 6 months or so. I do have alot to learn about the road, but that'll come in time.

I took a closer look at the car tonight and it looks like there is no damage to the rim at all (apart from some very minor gutter rash) and it's just the tyre. I also took a look in my boot and located my car jack, but do BA XR6s come with a wench or so to remove the lug nuts? I plan to change it over with the spare tomorrow morning if I can.

I guess while we're on the topic, can anyone recommend some good tyres as i'll be changing both rears at the same time.

Jack91 · 10-02-2010, 11:09 PM

Get the widest profile you can, I remember my Nexen R3000's being great in the wet. Pretty sure they were 275 width and cost a crapload though.

bingoTE50 · 10-02-2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

If you go a little too hard into the corner you can slide it out without any positive throttle application - the rears just slide laterally. I've done it at 30km/h turning into a street with road camber going away.
Traction control and Electronic Stability Control aren't magic cure alls. They won't stop all "losses of control". The laws of physics still apply.

they certainly help the average driver to maintain control in unexpected circumstances. Particularly ESP.
As you can see from my avatar I drive a GT , a bit more power than the OP XR6 . If I boot it on a slippery roundabout traction control will allow a small slide/wheel spin, then kick in ,and you can floor it but it will just miss and fart,it will not spit me the other direction .My point is that I think our mate was having a bit of fun in the wet and lost it .Unfortunate for him but a lesson is learned.
Your example at 30km/h does not gel with me , what about the understeer first,if it was that slippery surely there was no front end grip first.
I have done three advanced driving courses and on every occasion experienced understeer befor losing the rear end on a skid pan..
The cars were a AU v8 one tonner, The GT .The only car I lost rear grip in was in a race prepped Honda Integra at Oran Park on the Hairpin at the the end of the straight and got the Apex wrong , it slid the rears and I tried to catch it and it gripped then spat the other away mainly because at that point I should have accelerated being front wheel drive it may have pulled me out of the spin..I then had all brakes locked up .
A bit different from old mate on a wet roundabout,I was on slicks doing about 90 km/h in the dry.
But look at the end of the day its only a opinion ,at that what makes these forums interesting.

pottery beige · 10-02-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_pazz

Mate if you think jamming the picks on when you are oversteering in the wet is a good idea.... well I don't know what to say.

Secondly if your unable to countersteer and apply throttle, or no throttle in a single spinner's case at the right time then perhaps a rear wheel drive vehicle is not a good idea.

Now if it is beautiful oversteer in a wonderfull controlled fashion there is no need for pick's.. Ok.. Agree.. But my advice to the OP is the moment you feel it go, that VERY FIRST moment (not the sixth or seventh fishtail) on a wet greasy road.. Dab the brake's and pull it all up.. Simple safe advice.. Easy

tranquilized · 10-02-2010, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

But my advice to the OP is the moment you feel it go, that VERY FIRST moment (not the sixth or seventh fishtail) on a wet greasy road.. Dab the brake's and pull it all up.. Simple safe advice.. Easy

Wouldn't "dabbing" the brakes shift more of the cars weight to the front? If the rear end is already letting go, thats the last thing you want! You'll be spinning around cleaning up everything in your path.

Its difficult to give an inexperienced driver advice on what to do when surprise oversteer is encountered. Instincts kick in, and unless you know what your doing chances are those instincts will get you in even more trouble.

I was lucky enough to get some good driving training in when i was younger, 20ish I think, when a few mates and I bought a MKII Cortina for a slab of beer, and rallied it around dirt tracks on a private paddock out back of Geelong. Priceless experience that was! Although that came after I spun my XD a handfull of times on the road in circumstances very similar to those described by the OP.

I guess the only difference to me and a lot of young drivers today after 6 months on our P's, is that I was getting around in a clapped out 302 XD, not a modern 200kw Falcon....

04redxr8 · 11-02-2010, 12:17 AM

Why people are doubting you.

My wife in our XR8 at skidpan. Doing about 60-70 k's, in 2nd.

Me in our in our XR8, same skidpan, same day, same speeds, just in 1st gear, different accelerator action.

Can you see a difference? Yes I clipped the cones. Safer on a skidpan thean on a street. Do a driver training course or two. It will help a great deal.

I think some of us may have forgotten when we first start out driving, that when things go pear shaped, it all happens too quickly. Maybe that was what happened here and he missed the mistakes he made. Luckil it happened at low speed and no one was hurt.

stang65 · 11-02-2010, 12:18 AM

I thought the ba xr6 didn`t have traction control. i thought it had to be a turbo or xr8 to have traction control.

Stattic · 11-02-2010, 01:04 AM

My dad gave me the best advice
he said to me
"if you lose it from giving it too much don't be a hero and try to steer out of it and power on, hit the brakes and correct yourself no matter how much you think you wimped out and look silly i guarantee you'd be a hell of a lot more embarassed if you wrote off your car".
ABS and quick reactions have kept me out of trouble. I know I can correct myself but why risk it? There's a difference between a controlled skid and one you do that snuck up on you because you were careless
to the OP; you're lucky to experience this. As others have said it's an eye opener and just coming off my first year of p plates as long as you understand where you went wrong a near accident will make you a more aware and more careful driver

The Monty · 11-02-2010, 05:42 AM

Unfortunately Stattic, once your gone, brakes dont help much. Best thing to do, off the loud pedal, let it straighten up. Takes a lot of practice to not jump on the brakes, but after a few skidpans, you get used to it. Jumping on the brakes just makes things 10 times worse.