6000km FG XR6T Issues... Secret Squirrel, please help

[Copie]

Originally Posted by duaned

If the PCM has been sent to Ford HQ, can they identify the driver's habits, for example, showing the driver has spent a lot of time at WOT ( especially with a cold engine) as the cause of the problem?

Can anyone actually confirm this? (i know they can with GTR's) but i was under the assumption that the PCM did not have any data logging feature.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by duaned

If the PCM has been sent to Ford HQ, can they identify the driver's habits, for example, showing the driver has spent a lot of time at WOT ( especially with a cold engine) as the cause of the problem?

Skeptical me agrees.

They've gone quiet while they get the evidence to void the warranty.

Asking for some "inside" info sounds like you are worried.

[4Vman]

Snooping around behind the dealers back isn't going to help your cause, the fact that they're taking it seriously and fully investigating your concerns should be reassurance enough at this stage.

I understand you're curious but leave the dealings with the dealer at this stage.
Give the dealer some respect by allowing him to deal with it properly, if he doesn't know what's wrong then probably he simply doesn't know however i'm sure what ever the issue is it will be explained to you when its diagnosed/resolved.

To be perfectly honest my main concern would be that i was given another car till its resolved.
This is what new car warranties are for, simply give it back and say "FIX".
Its not your problem, that is unless you've done something to void your warranty like a flash tune.....

[arm79]

This wouldn't be the first or last time Ford put a dud engine into a car.

My BF had an engine fail at just under 3000km. New engine was sourced from the production line and stamped to match my car.

Problem was excessive endplay in the crank causing the crank to sieze in the tunnel. To the point where it couldnt be turned by hand. Took over a month to resolve and get the new engine in.

Subsequently had the turbo and ZF auto fail as well, and were replaced with new ones.

I don't think the original owner knew exactly what was happening either. She was kept completely in the dark for the month. "Here's your loaner car, go forth and come back when we call you"... I found out from researching the history after I bought it.

I remember reading (I think it was here) about a bloke driving his G6ET home from the dealer, and 10km from the dealer it shot a rod out the side of the block.

So all the best, and keep on them.

[QIK006]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Skeptical me agrees.

They've gone quiet while they get the evidence to void the warranty.

Asking for some "inside" info sounds like you are worried.

I am definatley worried, I have a $40,000 odd thousand dollar car sitting there with what could be the most expensive part of the car needing replacement, and they are investigating... I havn't tuned it, and it has spent next to no time on 3/4 accelerator and only a hand full of times on full, ( it spent more time on full accel trying to show the mechanic the problem, than it had the rest of the time I have owned it

I am not worried that it won't be warranted, I am worried that no one will talk to me about it

( while I wrote this, the service manager has called me and explained what they have been asked to do. Check the valve caps are up to tension, and apart from that, the engine plant has requested the PCM )

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by QIK006

I am not worried that it won't be warranted, I am worried that no one will talk to me about it

( while I wrote this, the service manager has called me and explained what they have been asked to do. Check the valve caps are up to tension, and apart from that, the engine plant has requested the PCM )

Excellent, so it sounds like you've got your answer.

[FG XR]

looking forward to an outcome from this whatever the result.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by arm79

This wouldn't be the first or last time Ford put a dud engine into a car.

$80,000 HSV E2 engine goes boom inside 400km: http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=136702

Etc, etc, etc

To the Op, open up the channels of communication...put the phone away, turn off the computer and go down there, face to face and speak to them about it.

[Jastel]

Originally Posted by Copie

Can anyone actually confirm this? (i know they can with GTR's) but i was under the assumption that the PCM did not have any data logging feature.

All modern Fords do, even says so in the handbook. The Police can even use it if they get appropiate warrants etc.

[QIK006]

Got some more Information this evening, a complete long motor is being plucked from the production line, being stamped with our engine no. And being shipped up for delivery on Friday hopefully. PCM is already on the way back apparently. The service manager still hasn't been informed on what the cause was, and is absolutley gob smacked that we have a replacement long motor. He hasn't heard of anyone getting one, but he has sent one down for repair though

either way, problem sorted, and no one is any the wiser to the cause

[XR Martin]

^ Err no, the ECU has no logging facility. Only thing they can see is whether its been flashed, and how many times its been done.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by QIK006

Got some more Information this evening, a complete long motor is being plucked from the production line, being stamped with our engine no. And being shipped up for delivery on Friday hopefully. PCM is already on the way back apparently. The service manager still hasn't been informed on what the cause was, and is absolutley gob smacked that we have a replacement long motor. He hasn't heard of anyone getting one, but he has sent one down for repair though

either way, problem sorted, and no one is any the wiser to the cause

Sounds like a great end result..!
To be honest you cant blame Ford for wanting to keep a lid on their Findings..
The line they'll probably play is "defective engine was replaced".

[prydey]

maybe Ford want to be certain before they open their mouth. they'll probably pull the old motor down and see if they can pinpoint the issue.

i'd be pretty frustrated at being kept in the dark though.

alls well that ends well i guess

[Copie]

Originally Posted by Jastel

All modern Fords do, even says so in the handbook. The Police can even use it if they get appropiate warrants etc.

I dont think so, as for that sorts of features to be present, you would have to be notified by law that your driving data is being recorded, the OBTC's we use at work are similar.

[MO]

@QIK006, Well thats good news. So thanks to you for finally telling us the problem and what is being done to fix it.

Would be great if you could post the final results of what exactly happened and why..if Ford tell you all of it that is.

Now if anyone else has a similar problem they'll know what to do and expect.

[JimNiki]

It makes you angry doesn't it. You just gave them a big wad of money for one of their products, and they still treat you like the opposition.

I know it commercial confidentiality... but it's this lack of customer service which they're famous for ... They act like they're doing you a favour by selling you a car and that they don't need your business... They couldn't be more wrong...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by JimNiki

It makes you angry doesn't it. You just gave them a big wad of money for one of their products, and they still treat you like the opposition.

I know it commercial confidentiality... but it's this lack of customer service which they're famous for ... They act like they're doing you a favour by selling you a car and that they don't need your business... They couldn't be more wrong...

Have you read the thread at all??? Seems like he's been looked after and treated pretty well to me.

[QIK006]

I took the advice and ditched the ph & CPU and talked directly to the service manager, instead of the the service guy that was assigned our car, the level of service changed phenominally, and although I wasn't informed of the problem, I think I was kept in the loop as much as the dealership were.

[shroomies49]

I can feel the frustration of the OP. I had my car fail at less than 200km on the clock, I'd had it for 2days, It came down to the a/c belt not being put on/tensioned properly causing it to fray, damaging the cam belt and in turn the pistons(?). Ford had it for a month while the rebuilt the engine. It ruined my first new car experience ><

Tenille

[MO]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Have you read the thread at all??? Seems like he's been looked after and treated pretty well to me.

+1......

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

^ Err no, the ECU has no logging facility. Only thing they can see is whether its been flashed, and how many times its been done.

Dealers are able to tell the maximum speed the car has been at, that I know for sure.

[Assassinbm]

Mechanics just like medicine is not an absolute exact science, things can & do go wrong with human interaction, the end result is the issue is being resolved, all should turn out rosy

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Dealers are able to tell the maximum speed the car has been at, that I know for sure.

what it can't tell you is if the car was on a public road or a rolling road/dyno in a workshop, or possibly even at a track day.

given the limited info the OP is prepared to share(and fair enough too) i'd say the car has had a pretty normal life in the first 6000km.

[Bossxr8]

I don't see why people are jumping to such stupid conclusions.

I work for Ford and can tell you exactly what happens if an engine fails in the field, it needs to be thouroughly checked over and the problem found, to make sure the problem can be isolated and steps taken to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Its called quality control FFS.

The one guy as you say has full responsibility for finding and fixing the problem. The ECU would have been pulled to check for fault codes, what number ECU program it was running etc. This is all part of the investigative process.

Ford do not keep check of the way the owner drives by way of how many times its red lined etc. If they want to see how certain owners drive they plug a special electrical box to the ECU and log all the info. They asked my father to do it a few years ago when they were doing investigations into how the customers actually drove the cars in the real world. The standard ECU cannot do this.

The engine would now be in the engine plant and it would be in pieces. If its a problem caused by human error or some type of machining or casting fault the workers involved will be informed of what has happened and what to look out for so the issue won't happen again.

Its standard practice. The dealer was only doing what the company would have told them to do. Obviously the problem is terminal if a new long motor had to be built. It may be some type of cam timing issue if the engine was pinging on 98.

[MO]

@Bossxr8,well said and given the complexity of todays engines and their management systems it probably would'nt take much if something is just out of tolerance etc.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its standard practice. The dealer was only doing what the company would have told them to do. Obviously the problem is terminal if a new long motor had to be built.

It might be standard practice, but Ford's investigation into the problem shouldn't be to the detriment of the customer. Nor should the customer be kept in the dark.

Obviously the factory dont trust a dealer to report any fault codes, so they waste more time mailing PCM's around

Should be as simple as "engine rooted, get new one or rebuild exisiting" so the customer knows the deal.

I personally spent way too much time waiting in the dark for things to happen with my car because of Fords crappy procedures.

QIK006 hasn't said how long he's been waiting. But I know my car spend 5.5 weeks at the dealer waiting for its new engine under the same circumstances.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I don't see why people are jumping to such stupid conclusions.

I work for Ford and can tell you exactly what happens if an engine fails in the field, it needs to be thouroughly checked over and the problem found, to make sure the problem can be isolated and steps taken to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Its called quality control FFS.

The one guy as you say has full responsibility for finding and fixing the problem. The ECU would have been pulled to check for fault codes, what number ECU program it was running etc. This is all part of the investigative process.

Ford do not keep check of the way the owner drives by way of how many times its red lined etc. If they want to see how certain owners drive they plug a special electrical box to the ECU and log all the info. They asked my father to do it a few years ago when they were doing investigations into how the customers actually drove the cars in the real world. The standard ECU cannot do this.

The engine would now be in the engine plant and it would be in pieces. If its a problem caused by human error or some type of machining or casting fault the workers involved will be informed of what has happened and what to look out for so the issue won't happen again.

Its standard practice. The dealer was only doing what the company would have told them to do. Obviously the problem is terminal if a new long motor had to be built. It may be some type of cam timing issue if the engine was pinging on 98.

Well said.
At the end of the day the customer doesnt need to know how or why, in this particular case the cause may still be being investigated many links from the dealer, all they need to know is its been fixed properly...

[arm79]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Well said.
At the end of the day the customer doesnt need to know how or why, in this particular case the cause may still be being investigated many links from the dealer, all they need to know is its been fixed properly...

I disagree...

QIK006, my advice to you, having been in a similar position, is find out EXACTLY what went wrong... Then monitor any components around the damaged part, as more things may/will fail because of the original problem.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by arm79

I disagree...

QIK006, my advice to you, having been in a similar position, is find out EXACTLY what went wrong... Then monitor any components around the damaged part, as more things may/will fail because of the original problem.

READ his reply.. he's getting a BRAND new entire engine... not just the failed bits replaced...
Its under warranty so anything else that goes wrong will be covered just like the engine was.....

[jpd80]

There are two issues here, Ford investigating a problem with the vehicles' power train
and how the problem with the customer's car is being dealt with.

Imagine yourself for a minute with a 6,000 klm XR6T with a terminal problem,
an owner has the right to have his car repaired in a timely manner.
It shouldn't take that long to rule out owner neglect/abuse....

This is a case where good will and speedy replacement are the best ambassadors...