Legal Minded, Not So Legal Minded, Opinionated, Maligned, Cheesed Off Or Plain Scared

[SEZ213]

Ahah,

Alright, now that we've had quite a few suggestions, and I'm sure there will be more to follow.

Specifically direct your attention to the following suggestions and please let me know what you feel would be a reasonable outcome for the them:

• Driving offences
• Speeding (=>10km/h over the limit)
• Speeding (<=10km/h over the limit)
• federal licencing
• federal registration
• modifications to vehicles
• learners permits
• probationary permits
• Uniform national driving standards
• double demerit points - half the financial loss
• 5 yearly refresher courses for those under 65, two years after the age of 65
• training for younger drivers to encompass all aspects of road safety and cautionary measures to prevent complacency.

[vztrt]

Personally I'd like to see safety in cars bumped up. We still let vehicles in the country that are unsafe. The corolla until recently didn't have ESC as standard. Recalls on cars that are proven to have issues with items that will effect the stopping and handling of the car.
Also with the money that is generated from traffic infringements I would like to see our roads improved. It is getting ridiculous with what people have to put up with. Its also been shown (can't remember the Scandinavian country, I think it was Sweeden) that changes of objects in the side of the road or putting up barriers (where not feasible to move something) had a dramatic effect in the road toll.
Also be realistic about the speed on our highways. Dropping the speed limit on a flat straight road will not reduce the deaths on the road, it can have the opposite effect. e.g N.T

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by JC

How about more policing of all traffic laws, not just speeding. For example, people who sit in the right hand lane on a multilane road (I don't care of they're going too fast or too slow - get out of the lane if you can travel in the left just as well!!). People who SPEED UP when being overtaken. People who sit up to 10km/h under the speed limit on a highway, but first overtaking lane they're off like a jack rabbit, only to slow down to 90 again when the lanes form back into one. People who do way less than the speed limit with no reason (I was stuck behind a 60 something female the other day - she was doing 50 in an 80 zone; she shouldnt even have a license).

As far as doing less than the speed limit, with no reason, it's unfair of us to speculate as to why she was doing under the speed limit, and that's really not the issue at hand, it's what to do about it...blanket approach doesn't work, as the general population gets a tad cranky about blanket approaches (speed cameras, etc).

[388cube_edxr8]

The current approach to Transport legislation is akin to fixing a leaking dam with duct tape. While each individual crack appears to be repaired, the cracks are appearing faster than we can fix them, and the structure as a whole is weaker because of it. The only way to fix it properly is to stop being dodgy and lazy, pull the bloody thing down and build a new one.

I propose a full scrap of each governing transport body in each state and territory, and a complete design and build of a world class, brand new Australian Federal Transportation Bureau. The systems we have now were designed in 1906 with the advent of the 'automobile' and are currently more amendments and patches than actual building block legislation.

We need lots of clever blokes, some laptops, a big room and a limitless supply of coffee to completely redesign the system from the ground up.

I'm talking new everything:
-driver training
-rego costs relative on the average wage and cost of living of each respective state
-insurance requirements
-licensing systems for bikes, cars trucks, boats
-public transport viability and suitability assessment (services, bus routes and times)
-bus driver training
-improved infrastructure for cyclists, and negative consequences for not using it (i.e. riding three abreast on the road, next to the cycle lane)
-Mature (M) plates for older drivers, periodic driver competency testing, starting at retirement age
-improved support for drivers and owners of modified production vehicles
-ADR performance review - there is absolutely no need for the twisty thing to control the brightness of the dash lights. Random crap like this makes it very hard to compliance imported and restored cars.

Thats all I can think of for now.

[1970XW351]

To me, the whole full on driver training thing is redundant... That being said I was handed the keys to my dad's work ute at 15 and told "drive"... if I slacked off the pace I was promptly informed "if a semi comes up behind you, he'll run right over the top of you"... So I learned to keep to the speed limit, regardless of terrain and learned to drive to suit that. I grew up on a farm and had to drive on gravel roads as well as bitumen. My biggest kick in the pants was at age 16 when I was headed into work (over an hour away) and hit an uphill segment with too much speed on gravel, lost the car, went broadside at 90* each way and then spun out 180*. I tried to weasel out and get my Mum to drive me the rest of the way, but was unsympathetically told to get on with it and drive myself to work... These two things helped to cement the crucial elements of driving in my mind. Sure, I've acted a right twat in subsequent years on occasion (when the situation was right), but in 12 years of full time road occupation, I have had a grand total of one speeding infringement... I think what is needed is a greater range of experience in learner drivers i.e. Gravel, wet, night, daytime driving. Also I understand that I may have been lucky in the type of parents I have, but to me as a parent myself, I would want my daughter to have experience with all types of terrain and I also think tests should only be given in manual cars as it gives you far more feedback than an automatic.

As it stands presently, it is all about jumping through the hoops to get a license and nothing more. There needs to be more accountability and a greater teaching of respect of the various conditions that drivers will come across, rather than just "do x hours of blah, z hours of naf and t hours of zuh, stall d times, say boo g times and the license is yours... I feel there is also too much emphasis placed on speed limits by speed cameras etc, without enough emphasis on reading road conditions and adjusting speed and attitude to suit.

Another thing. Drivers sticking to right hand lane in zones over 80kmph... WTF??? have you read the licensing guidebook recently guys?
As others have stated, a mandatory test every 5 years could weed out a lot of the more dangerous folk from our highways and biways.

All of that being said, I guess what I am trying to get across is that nothing educates more than an unexpected loss of control and whilst skidpan driver training is all the rage and probably very good, nothing can come close to hands on, real world experience... Maybe some sort of holiday driving camp in the bush coupled with higher expectations and to a certain degree, greater cost in obtaining a license?

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by 388cube_edxr8

I propose a full scrap of each governing transport body in each state and territory, and a complete design and build of a world class, brand new Australian Federal Transportation Bureau. The systems we have now were designed in 1906 with the advent of the 'automobile' and are currently more amendments and patches than actual building block legislation.

We need lots of clever blokes, some laptops, a big room and a limitless supply of coffee to completely redesign the system from the ground up.

Are you raising your hand to give me one?? :P

If someone can supply a room in each state, I think it would be well worth a brain storm - any particular causes relevant to each state go into the state proposal, anything relevant to federal suggestions/policy changes go into the federal.

I reckon with a little bit of initiative and some gentle pushing (ie. PR related stuff), we can get the ball rolling and push some government factions into action.

A couple of quotes from Henry Ford come to mind at this point in time:

Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success.

Don't find fault, find a remedy.

[Iggypoppin']

I suggest running this "ideas forum" for a few weeks then closing it and sifting through the inevitable arguing and stupid ideas and getting all the good ones, then arranging for a professional proposal/report to be drafted and proof read so that it is in acceptable format for a government official to actually want to read it.
Can't do this half a**ed. Can't rush it. One thing we should all remember about road transport places and the gov is that they love red tape, so be prepared to wait. Good prep of the report and correct editing will help us skip some of this red tape.
Red tape if someone doesn't know is pretty much just basic paperwork and waiting around.

[388cube_edxr8]

Originally Posted by Iggypoppin'

I suggest running this "ideas forum" for a few weeks then closing it and sifting through the inevitable arguing and stupid ideas and getting all the good ones, then arranging for a professional proposal/report to be drafted and proof read so that it is in acceptable format for a government official to actually want to read it.
Can't do this half a**ed. Can't rush it. One thing we should all remember about road transport places and the gov is that they love red tape, so be prepared to wait. Good prep of the report and correct editing will help us skip some of this red tape.
Red tape if someone doesn't know is pretty much just basic paperwork and waiting around.

This 'red tape' that you speak of is another reason we need a redesigned system. We spend too much time fart assing around with the govt, and its such a massive waste of time.

Once we get the actual report together, we should use the difference in time between the date it was sent in and the date some action is taken as further evidence for a rebuild of the system.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Iggypoppin'

I suggest running this "ideas forum" for a few weeks then closing it and sifting through the inevitable arguing and stupid ideas and getting all the good ones, then arranging for a professional proposal/report to be drafted and proof read so that it is in acceptable format for a government official to actually want to read it.
Can't do this half a**ed. Can't rush it. One thing we should all remember about road transport places and the gov is that they love red tape, so be prepared to wait. Good prep of the report and correct editing will help us skip some of this red tape.
Red tape if someone doesn't know is pretty much just basic paperwork and waiting around.

That's the plan mate! (I'm also a communications major, so I have a plethora of people to run these sorts of proposals/reports through, those that are sticklers for the english language, and some that are just downright hard to deal with and get a point across to ;))

The other thing that needs to be discussed is how to sell it - governments, state or federal, even local - want things that will save them money where they can - if they don't have to spend money on it, the more money they have elsewhere.

In suggesting something as simple as a national licencing policy, whereby every citizen can move interstate when required and that information flows back through the federal system for the likes of the ATO office, Centrelink and more importantly the AEC. This nullify's the need for a person to fill out another piece of paperwork to change their address with the AEC and send back in a prepaid envelope, the money saved by the federal government is potentially limitless.

I know this theory requires some extra analysis (but working on that as we speak!).

[vztrt]

You will also have to think about opposition from lobby groups.

[burnz]

all revenue raised by speed fine cameras should go to starlight, red cross, salvos, or some other charitys and not in govco's coffers. (it's not about the money, it's about saving live's)
all prive enterprise must not hold stake in public roads, speed cams and toll's (M2, M5, M7, harbour bridge/tunnel, callhill)

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Fantastic idea - I would be keen to know why you think people would be annoyed with this? This is also a relevant issue when you note that people are moving interstate more frequently, incurring a cost every time they move state and change their licence over - a federal licencing policy could potentially render these additional fees that we pay to do so, null and void.

You've come up with some great suggestions here, and definitely some worth exploring a little more in depth to see where I can slot them into what is now being dubbed by me as the 'novel'...

Mostlt because this idea would involve all drivers having to do the course every 5 years. As new technologies are released, and cars change, so too the need for us to change our driving habits.

Also we would be more informed of any road rule changes at the time.

[mrniceguy]

Originally Posted by burnz

all revenue raised by speed fine cameras should go to starlight, red cross, salvos, or some other charitys and not in govco's coffers. (it's not about the money, it's about saving live's)
all prive enterprise must not hold stake in public roads, speed cams and toll's (M2, M5, M7, harbour bridge/tunnel, callhill)

Yeah sounds good, but you are talking about tens of millions of dollars every year. That money is already budgeted for. If it was taken away something would have to replace it.

[LTDHO]

I don't think cars should be safer.
Every road user has to be responsible for their actions.

re: CTP
It differes between states, in Vis is included in the rego and covers personal injury. This should be same country wide. But TPO (THird Party only) should be madatory, if you can't affort TPO then you can not afford to have a car on the road.

re: Driver education
No more "mummy and Daddy" teaching poor habits and no skill. All learners must go through a school. They must learn how to drive defensively and not do a 'advanced' course, we don't need you kids thinking they are better than others because they did advanced course.

re: Road rules.
These serilusly need to be reviewed and enforced. Daily I see people that simply don't care or don't know, making driving for other unpleasurable.

re: Speed.
Yeah I am Victoria and I hate the way it is. The constant need to watch my speedo. The fact everyone jumps on their brakes when passing a Rav4 (no matter how slow they were going in the first place)

re: reward
A sceme put into place where good drivers are rewarded. The only one I know of is a discount in licence fee if you have had a clean record for the past 5 years.

[myxr6]

You would never get people to have compulsury third party property insurance.Just look at the amount of people that drive without rego and licences , they dont give a toss about that , so why would they about insurance.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by myxr6

You would never get people to have compulsury third party property insurance.Just look at the amount of people that drive without rego and licences , they dont give a toss about that , so why would they about insurance.

You can't cater to the minority, that's partly the problem we have now. I know of two instances in my life were an uninsured yet licensed and registered driver is now paying of significant repair damage simply because they didn't think they needed any insurance.

It should be a condition of purchase and then a condition of registration that your car is always covered by at least third party property.

[Bundy]

Originally Posted by DAVO_XR

Maybe provide an incentive for young drivers to buy newer cars with ABS etc. Could be a reduction in rego fees by $20 for every safety feature.

Take this Brillant Idea one step further, MAJOR Discounts on Insurance, CTP and Rego related costs for all 4-5 star ANCAP rated cars, for people of ALL ages.

Thus giving an incentive to remove most of the 10+ year rust ridden bombs from our roads.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

re: Driver education
No more "mummy and Daddy" teaching poor habits and no skill. All learners must go through a school. They must learn how to drive defensively and not do a 'advanced' course, we don't need you kids thinking they are better than others because they did advanced course.

I think Driver Education is a brilliant idea, but it needs to be tempered with some understanding of the positions our fellow Australians are in.

Not everyone has access to a Driver Education facility; do we expect people in remote locations to have to catch a flight or drive in to then have the added expense of going through Driver Education, and then every 5 years after that?

Also consider the rapidly rising cost of living, especially for low socio-economic groups. Not everyone can afford this kind of thing. There are thousands and thousands of people struggling to survive and live without more added compulsory costs. A tax break somewhere or a reduction of rego/insurance/stamp duty might offset this if they take the Driver Education Course.

I dont want the line "if they can't afford it, they shouldn't be driving" to become a precedent. We already see university positions filled by full fee paying students where a more capable student misses out because they can't afford uni. Please be careful that you dont start the precent that driving is only achievable for middle or high income people. Dont add to that stereotype.

I think the government has got it right by offering to cut 6 months from a P platers probation period if they take a Driver Education course. This caters for most.

Just my thoughts.

[barra64]

third party personal injury moving to the licence holder makes a lot of sense for everyone..age & risk factors can be worked out and spread across the licenced population..increase severity of unlicenced driving including jail terms for repeat offenders..

most accidents and near misses are caused by distracted driving..eg. texting, on the phone, doing the makeup, eating breakfast, reading the paper/book/map (seen it all)..educate and enforce the importance of driving a lethal weapon..before it's too late..

congestion charging..too many single occupant cars requiring too much infrastructure to drive in and out of the CBD's..

National rebodying laws (victoria as the model), education and police enforcement..stop bad cars being sold via lax states (south australia) or people using interstate jurisdictions to avoid responsibility for passing them off..

Implement an engineering standards body in DoT for modified cars that can advise, inspect and authorise mods for safety and insurance to replace prescriptive laws that often don't make sense..

Train people to deal with aggressive drivers..pull over, admit mistakes, don't get wound up..

Sort out the roundabout laws mess between states..NSW seems to be the best..indicate "intention" left for left, right for right or don't for straight ahead.."confirmating" what you're already doing (leaving the roundabout) is a waste of time..

another vote for banning council set speed limits and/or fine councils for inappropriate limits/excessive variations/failing to comply with the australian standards/poor road maintenance..60 kmh on new dual lane straight divided roads without houses is just honeypots for revenue..

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by myxr6

You would never get people to have compulsury third party property insurance.Just look at the amount of people that drive without rego and licences , they dont give a toss about that , so why would they about insurance.

If a driver is found to be using a vehicle which is neither registered, unlicenced or without TPO, then it is impounded for up to 1 month for them to be paid. If not it is crushed or VIN cancelled and vehicle dismantled with money going to victims of motor accidents.

[SB076]

Would like to see the TAC spend less on advertising and put some of that money towards driver training (through defensive driving course and driving etiquette) I wouldnt run it as a repeat course as stated above it would be difficult for those in remote locations. Plus (hopefully) most only need to be taught once - if some still dont get it, have more police on the road to enforce all road rules (not just speeding)

I also would vote on banning council set speed limits.

Synchronise traffic lights if you are travelling along a major road and you get a red light, then provided you stay at the speed limit any lights further down the track should be green (less start stop better traffic flow)

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by bundy

Take this Brillant Idea one step further, MAJOR Discounts on Insurance, CTP and Rego related costs for all 4-5 star ANCAP rated cars, for people of ALL ages.

Thus giving an incentive to remove most of the 10+ year rust ridden bombs from our roads.

Seriously? My Prado is more than ten years old, and I'm willing to bet that it has less rust in it that a two year old Territory.

How far back do ANCAP ratings go? When you were a P-Plater, could you have afforded a car less than five years old? I couldn't.

[Ducati888]

[QUOTE=vztrt]Personally I'd like to see safety in cars bumped up. We still let vehicles in the country that are unsafe. The corolla until recently didn't have ESC as standard.

Are you suggesting, VZTRT, that cars without ESC are unsafe? That's rich.

If you are in a situation where the ESC comes in to play, you have been driving incompetently in the first place. If you are in a situation where ANCAP rating of 5 is required, then the car is written off already, you just most likely walked away.

Perhaps driver competence should outweighs car "safety features". The most variable and unpredicatable safety feature in a car is the bonehead behind the wheel.

[66FAIRLANE]

How about the farcical open road speed limits. Alot of main country roads could easily be 130kph. NT had no speed limit on the open road until recently. After the introduction of a limit the road toll actually rose I believe. It strikes me as odd that as cars have become monumentally safer over the years that speed limits everywhere are being reduced. Something doesnt add up. Surely a new Commodore or Falcon on the open road at 130kph is still massively safer than was an FB or XK Falcon at 110Kph! Full statiscal transparancy of 'road safety' measures taken in different areas and if they haven't worked revert back and try something different. The policy of road safety by using a big stick and then if that doesn't work then obviously you need a bigger stick mentality is just ridiculous. Having people glancing at the speedo every 10 seconds instead of watching the road is more dangerous than travelling 10kph over the limit and concentrating on what you are doing (IMHO). Especially approaching an intersection which is where most speed cameras are located.

I am all for red light cameras.

3rd party insurance linked to licence. I have 3 cars. I can only drive 1 at a time.

As our cities become more congested we need major corridors with on off ramps. Not more traffic lights (can you tell I'm in Adelaide!)

Do not let mental incapacitants do our road planning!

[vztrt]

[QUOTE=Ducati888]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Personally I'd like to see safety in cars bumped up. We still let vehicles in the country that are unsafe. The corolla until recently didn't have ESC as standard.

Are you suggesting, VZTRT, that cars without ESC are unsafe? That's rich.

If you are in a situation where the ESC comes in to play, you have been driving incompetently in the first place. If you are in a situation where ANCAP rating of 5 is required, then the car is written off already, you just most likely walked away.

Perhaps driver competence should outweighs car "safety features". The most variable and unpredicatable safety feature in a car is the bonehead behind the wheel.

Yes cause every situation is black and white. Increasing the safety of the car doesn't just mean electronics. Its improvements in handling and how well the safety cell will be in a crash. Electronics are helpful and the technology is there so it should be used. Most people aren't as interested as a car enthusiest forum would be.
Maybe the same arguments were being said when they brought in the seat belt laws.

[Mont5.0]

My main gripe is weekend learner drivers.
If there limit is 80k's/hour- why teach them to drive on a 110/hr freeway?
I have seen some very scary situations where they mearge into on coming traffic at 80! I respect the fact they have to learn, but why not keep them in controlled environments where 80k's is the limit.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

If a driver is found to be using a vehicle which is neither registered, unlicenced or without TPO, then it is impounded for up to 1 month for them to be paid. If not it is crushed or VIN cancelled and vehicle dismantled with money going to victims of motor accidents.

Top idea!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

My main gripe is weekend learner drivers.
If there limit is 80k's/hour- why teach them to drive on a 110/hr freeway?
I have seen some very scary situations where they mearge into on coming traffic at 80! I respect the fact they have to learn, but why not keep them in controlled environments where 80k's is the limit.

Whats the difference between that and people on full licence's doing the same thing?

[Mont5.0]

there is no difference, both are dangerous in my opinion.

[xc4me]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

we don't need you kids thinking they are better than others because they did advanced course.

As a P-plater i have done an advanced driving course and defensive and it was a great educational experience, i think everyone should have to do it in order to learn the dynamics of their vehicle. It would make for much safer roads. With the proper education not many will think they're the bees knees just because they did some course, you will still inevitably have the select few morons.