Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

View Poll Results: Would you buy a diesel Falcon?
Yeah sure 140 49.30%
Not a chance 88 30.99%
If it doesnt sound like a truck 56 19.72%
Voters: 284. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 18-07-2010, 06:46 PM   #31
Falcon Coupe
Clevo Mafia Inc.
 
Falcon Coupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,496
Chairman's Award: Chairman's Award - Issue reason: The exceptional contribution made to AFF over an extended period of time. Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Your tireless efforts behind the scenes in keeping AFF the place it is. 
Default

The idea is attractive to me, but with LPG and ecoboost I don't think it's necessary.
Falcon Coupe is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 06:59 PM   #32
sgt_doofey
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
sgt_doofey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Barossa Valley, South Australia
Posts: 3,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe
with LPG and ecoboost I don't think it's necessary.
I agree. Having my 4.0L EL on LPG means it is cheaper to run than the 2.0L HDi (Diesel) Peugeot we have. Only just and that is comparing one engine that is half the capacity of the other.
Given the choice of either LiLPG and diesel in a Falcon, I'd probably go the LiLPG as it would be cheaper to run in the long run. The only advantage I'd see is longevity in the diesel and a possible boost in towing capacity due to the torque numbers.

Don't get me wrong, the Pug is a great car to drive and the way the torque pushes you back in your seat when the turbo comes on song at 1750rpm is sweet. Diesel also means a different driving experience to petrol. The torque comes on strong and early, whereas with some petrol engines, it higher up in the rev range. Passing cars from 90km/h, planting your foot whilst still in 6th gear can see the speed increase at a rapid rate, yet it doesn't feel like it as the power isn't there, just that torque.
__________________
Cheers,
Sam.
sgt_doofey is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 07:03 PM   #33
cycle myth
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 276
Default

Many have cited the example of how good a diesel can be with the XF jag.

With the same or similar engine, same or similar gearbox, similar weight .... why wouldn't you?

It would have to cost less than the XF's $100k and perform in line.

Sad.
cycle myth is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 07:08 PM   #34
Kryton
 
Kryton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,292
Default

Considering a lot of taxi's are turning away from LPG and towards diesel, really makes you wonder the entire greatness of LPG.
But what would taxi owners know.
Kryton is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 07:10 PM   #35
vztrt
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
 
vztrt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: vztrt is one of the most consistent and respected contributors to AFF, I have found his contributions are most useful to discussion as well as answering members queries. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davway
Considering a lot of taxi's are turning away from LPG and towards diesel, really makes you wonder the entire greatness of LPG.
But what would taxi owners know.

Haven't seen a diesel taxi yet. Seen plenty of Hybrids. I guess we should have a Hybrid Falcon before a diesel one.
__________________
Daniel
vztrt is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 07:12 PM   #36
Kryton
 
Kryton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,292
Default

All bar maybe 2 taxi's are diesels in Warrnambool.
Kryton is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 07:18 PM   #37
Falcon Coupe
Clevo Mafia Inc.
 
Falcon Coupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,496
Chairman's Award: Chairman's Award - Issue reason: The exceptional contribution made to AFF over an extended period of time. Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Your tireless efforts behind the scenes in keeping AFF the place it is. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vztrt
Haven't seen a diesel taxi yet. Seen plenty of Hybrids. I guess we should have a Hybrid Falcon before a diesel one.
Hybrid Falcon !!....lets see if we can get Russ to add that term to the swear filter !
Falcon Coupe is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 07:23 PM   #38
vztrt
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
 
vztrt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: vztrt is one of the most consistent and respected contributors to AFF, I have found his contributions are most useful to discussion as well as answering members queries. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davway
All bar maybe 2 taxi's are diesels in Warrnambool.
Guess its cost effective out there, not popular in Melbourne.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe
Hybrid Falcon !!....lets see if we can get Russ to add that term to the swear filter !
haha! Yeah I doubt its gonna happen with how rubbish the sales on the Camry are going.
__________________
Daniel

Last edited by vztrt; 18-07-2010 at 07:39 PM.
vztrt is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 07:33 PM   #39
vztrt
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
 
vztrt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: vztrt is one of the most consistent and respected contributors to AFF, I have found his contributions are most useful to discussion as well as answering members queries. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe
Hybrid Falcon !!....lets see if we can get Russ to add that term to the swear filter !
haha! Yeah I doubt its gonna happen with how rubbish the sales on the Camry are going.
__________________
Daniel
vztrt is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 07:41 PM   #40
vztrt
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
 
vztrt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: vztrt is one of the most consistent and respected contributors to AFF, I have found his contributions are most useful to discussion as well as answering members queries. 
Default

double post
__________________
Daniel

Last edited by vztrt; 18-07-2010 at 07:52 PM.
vztrt is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 07:54 PM   #41
billy302
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Perth
Posts: 115
Default

only a truckie knows big torque diesels
The truck I drive has 625 HP (466kw) and 1250 lb/ft or torque at idle.
Without the tailer it's quite a ride.
billy302 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 08:00 PM   #42
Road_Warrior
Pity the fool
 
Road_Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
Default

I wouldn't, no. But fit the diesel to the ute (especially an RTV) and I can see it being a nice little niche seller.
__________________
Fords I own or have owned:

1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD

Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin
Road_Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 08:05 PM   #43
Bucknaked
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Bucknaked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 11,647
Default

I wouldn't. I'm not in a position to buy a car at the moment and won't be for a few years. I'm not a fan of diesels. I get 9.4 around town out of my XR5 and around 7.5 on the highway, so the extra cost for deisel wouldn't amount to any benefits over the cost of fuel and my economy in my current car. If I want better fuel savings, I'll look first at the 4cyl Mondeo Wagon before a 6 cylinder deisel falcon. And things like it being RWD doesn't bother me. Theres a list of other priorities without worrying about what wheels drive the car.
__________________
FG2 XR6T
KIA Cerato
2022 Kawasaki Z900
Bucknaked is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 08:05 PM   #44
whynot
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
whynot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,102
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vztrt
Haven't seen a diesel taxi yet. Seen plenty of Hybrids. I guess we should have a Hybrid Falcon before a diesel one.
Apparently, a local taxi firm in Brisbane will have 15 diesel Passat running around by year's end. Wants to have the entire 70 vehicle fleet on diesel in a few years time. Projected fuel savings are $20K over the six year life when compared to LPG.

At least, if nothing else, it will stop the complaints about the Falcon being nothing more than a taxi car.
whynot is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 08:09 PM   #45
vztrt
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
 
vztrt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: vztrt is one of the most consistent and respected contributors to AFF, I have found his contributions are most useful to discussion as well as answering members queries. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whynot
At least, if nothing else, it will stop the complaints about the Falcon being nothing more than a taxi car.
I wonder if the Terri will be considered then, if they are moving over.
__________________
Daniel
vztrt is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 08:10 PM   #46
prydey
Rob
 
prydey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whynot
Projected fuel savings are $20K over the six year life when compared to LPG.
i would imagine that would be based on mixer type lpg systems. against injected lpg, esp liquid, there wouldn't be any savings, or not 20k anyway.
prydey is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 08:53 PM   #47
Road_Warrior
Pity the fool
 
Road_Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vztrt
Haven't seen a diesel taxi yet. Seen plenty of Hybrids. I guess we should have a Hybrid Falcon before a diesel one.
In places like Singapore and Malaysia every taxi on the road is diesel. In fact, I think London taxis are diesel.
__________________
Fords I own or have owned:

1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD

Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin
Road_Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 08:58 PM   #48
vztrt
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
 
vztrt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: vztrt is one of the most consistent and respected contributors to AFF, I have found his contributions are most useful to discussion as well as answering members queries. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_Warrior
In places like Singapore and Malaysia every taxi on the road is diesel. In fact, I think London taxis are diesel.

I was talking bout in OZ. A lot of the world has diesel taxis (but diesel is cheaper as well). Funny enough Singapore is mainly diesels, but they also have a few Hybrids and LNG taxis running around now.
__________________
Daniel
vztrt is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 09:02 PM   #49
peeds13
XC AMS
 
peeds13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 101
Default

The only way I would consider a diesel is if it was in a base model falcon ute for work... But I have a Bf dedicated gas xl ute now and its great, so I doubt I'd ever get a diesel.
peeds13 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 09:07 PM   #50
Blast2
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 120
Default

A 3 litre plus twin turbo diesel in a falcon could work quite well. The xr5 are a volvo engine.
Blast2 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 09:16 PM   #51
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default

I'm trying to understand the other side of the argument.

Compared to other companies, Ford has healthy LPG sales numbers so I guess
you could consider that as their alternative to Diesel which is already in place .

Now that Ford US is supporting roll out of the I-4 Ecoboost, another engine
now appears more economically viable than developing a V6 diesel Falcon.

I can see why a company with limited funds has only so much cash to spend
would play to its strengths and accept a good cost effective corporate engine.

So while a V6 diesel may be a possible future engine option, maybe the engine
Ford wants (TT 3.0) is not yet available for the right price and perhaps LPG
and Ecoboost offer Ford's customers all the economy they really need.

I'd like a diesel but not at any price and certainly not at the cost of excluding
an engine (like LPG or even Ecoboost) which potentially draws upwards of 6,000 sales a year.

I think Ford will watch sales of diesel Territory, Ecoboost and LPG Falcon and draw their own conclusions.
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 09:18 PM   #52
BionicGT
Living in GT Nirvana
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,371
Default

If it was a turbo diesel, a 6 cyl and as good as Audi's 6 cyl diesels, I'd buy one. Just been testing an Audi 2.7l turbo diesel and they are smooth, pull hard from 1200rpm and OK for freeway overtaking.
BionicGT is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 09:24 PM   #53
PoweredByCNG
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
PoweredByCNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,296
Default

People forget that the Falcon I6 is a low-revving, 'lazy' engine with very similar characteristics (high torque at low rpm) to a diesel engine. Power delivery may be slightly different, but at the end of the day, the net result is similar if not BETTER in favour of the diesel.

Diesel engines are certainly built to last. They need to be in order to cope with the combustion characteristics of the fuel. The very high compression ratios (at least 16:1) combined with turbocharging and intercooling increases torque and thermal efficiency to levels well beyond what you'd expect from a petrol engine with a similar displacement. Additionally, there's no ignition system in a diesel, so there are no expensive coils, leads or spark plugs to replace and your engine will run smoother for longer. Have a look at heavy duty vehicles (heavy trucks, buses) around you. Do any of them run on petrol? I think not.

CNG/LNG (methane) engines come a close second. The exteremly high octane number (at least 120RON equivalent) of methane allows the use of very high compression ratios (beyond 12:1) and/or turbocharging to increase torque to beyond petrol levels. The only downsides to these fuels are higher consumption compared to petrol and the requirement for additional storage space to accommodate gas cylinders. LPG (propane/butane) has similar characteristics but generally can't quite match methane.
__________________
PoweredByCNG: Sick and tired of all the ignorant 'gas is crap' comments out there.
PoweredByCNG is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 10:40 PM   #54
superroo
You can't stop the signal
 
superroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Behind a computer at work
Posts: 1,624
Tech Writer: Recognition for the technical writers of AFF - Issue reason: Has done quite a few excellent write ups for au .com 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prydey
i know how well the euro diesels go, but you'd be kidding yourself if you thought the falcon would end up with one of those.
I'm guessing you haven't seen a pilot territory like i have then.

Cheers
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Brown
I own a Dodge Viper and a minivan, and if I could only keep one of them, it would be the minivan
superroo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-07-2010, 11:23 PM   #55
FreddyDUZ747
Banned
 
FreddyDUZ747's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SA
Posts: 5,213
Default

Save it for the Territory as another model in the lineup.

Dont intrude on the Mondeo.
FreddyDUZ747 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-07-2010, 07:36 AM   #56
sgt_doofey
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
sgt_doofey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Barossa Valley, South Australia
Posts: 3,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prydey
i would imagine that would be based on mixer type lpg systems. against injected lpg, esp liquid, there wouldn't be any savings, or not 20k anyway.
Even with a mixer system in my EL, I see a slight fuel savings in dollar terms in that over the diesel Peugeot, so I couldn't imagine a large saving on the fleet swapping to diesel. And that's comparing a 13 year old car with a 4 year old car.
__________________
Cheers,
Sam.
sgt_doofey is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-07-2010, 09:43 AM   #57
Brazen
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Brazen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prydey
like i mentioned earlier, all those companies have a global product. it means development costs and production costs are spread over a much larger base.

i don't think the aussie car makers are wrong - i think they know better than most think what will sell and what won't. Ford as a company have a lot more infomation at hand than a few forum members so i think they are much better qualified to make the decisions they do.

the commodore sells at 4000units/month (give or take) and there is no diesel option. have they got it wrong also?

i guess these are my opinions, so, no - i wouldn't buy a diesel falcon. diesel is still twice the price of lpg and liquid injected lpg systems are cheaper to run and offer plenty of power.

Look at how they dramatically underestimated demand for Diesel Mondeos in Australia. Trust me, Ford gets it wrong a lot!
Brazen is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-07-2010, 09:52 AM   #58
Brazen
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Brazen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
Default

I personally think EcoBoost will be a sales disaster in this country, the likes of which we havnt seen since the 3.2litre EA.

They are spending all that money to fit the diesel in the Territory, just adding it Falcon ute would probably outsell the entire EcoBoost sedan range.

If I was Ford I would be aiming for parts harmonisation as much as possible between Territory and Falcon, having seperate engines is nonsense.

Ford AU are going to have to educate the buying public on the benefits of EcoBoost (which are many), but I dont think they have the skill level to achieve this. Instead they should tag-along on the Euros which have already done all the hard work on selling diesel as a mainstream engine.

Diesel Falcon will get sales especially among private buyers, LPG will get the fleets - its a perfect tow-pronged attack. It also increase the economies of scale of fitting the diesel to the Terriotry.
Brazen is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-07-2010, 09:58 AM   #59
mcnews
Trev
 
mcnews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Trev has owned several boosted fords and has really contributed a lot of info on them. His posts in the bike section are also very helpful. I think he should be recognised as a technical contributor. 
Default

[QUOTE=PoweredByCNG]Diesel engines are certainly built to last. They need to be in order to cope with the combustion characteristics of the fuel. The very high compression ratios (at least 16:1) combined with turbocharging and intercooling increases torque and thermal efficiency to levels well beyond what you'd expect from a petrol engine with a similar displacement. Additionally, there's no ignition system in a diesel, so there are no expensive coils, leads or

Yeah just $2000 injector pumps to replace every 100,000km or so along with more expensive filters, oils etc. There are clearly advantages but both sides of the argument should be given.
__________________
Trev
(FPV FG II GT-E thus the fully loaded burger with the lot as standard +Alpine/Dynamat fitout - 2 of only 4 ever made GT-E factory 9" rear rims - Michelin Pilot Supersports - Shockworks Suspension)
mcnews is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-07-2010, 10:01 AM   #60
chevypower
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
chevypower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,479
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazen
I personally think EcoBoost will be a sales disaster in this country, the likes of which we havnt seen since the 3.2litre EA.
Don't bet on that! The technology is changing, the market is changing. If Ford doesn't offer the EcoBoost, watch Hyundai take the sales lead with the i45/Sonata Turbo (2.0T DI), which replaces the V6. Ford should make sure the Falcon has 200kw in its 2.0T DI.
chevypower is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Reply


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 04:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL