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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
View Poll Results: Would you buy a diesel Falcon? | |||
Yeah sure | 140 | 49.30% | |
Not a chance | 88 | 30.99% | |
If it doesnt sound like a truck | 56 | 19.72% | |
Voters: 284. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools | Display Modes |
18-07-2010, 06:46 PM | #31 | ||
Clevo Mafia Inc.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,496
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The idea is attractive to me, but with LPG and ecoboost I don't think it's necessary.
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18-07-2010, 06:59 PM | #32 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Barossa Valley, South Australia
Posts: 3,381
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Quote:
Given the choice of either LiLPG and diesel in a Falcon, I'd probably go the LiLPG as it would be cheaper to run in the long run. The only advantage I'd see is longevity in the diesel and a possible boost in towing capacity due to the torque numbers. Don't get me wrong, the Pug is a great car to drive and the way the torque pushes you back in your seat when the turbo comes on song at 1750rpm is sweet. Diesel also means a different driving experience to petrol. The torque comes on strong and early, whereas with some petrol engines, it higher up in the rev range. Passing cars from 90km/h, planting your foot whilst still in 6th gear can see the speed increase at a rapid rate, yet it doesn't feel like it as the power isn't there, just that torque.
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18-07-2010, 07:03 PM | #33 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 276
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Many have cited the example of how good a diesel can be with the XF jag.
With the same or similar engine, same or similar gearbox, similar weight .... why wouldn't you? It would have to cost less than the XF's $100k and perform in line. Sad. |
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18-07-2010, 07:08 PM | #34 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,292
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Considering a lot of taxi's are turning away from LPG and towards diesel, really makes you wonder the entire greatness of LPG.
But what would taxi owners know. |
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18-07-2010, 07:10 PM | #35 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
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Quote:
Haven't seen a diesel taxi yet. Seen plenty of Hybrids. I guess we should have a Hybrid Falcon before a diesel one.
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Daniel |
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18-07-2010, 07:12 PM | #36 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,292
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All bar maybe 2 taxi's are diesels in Warrnambool.
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18-07-2010, 07:18 PM | #37 | |||
Clevo Mafia Inc.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,496
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18-07-2010, 07:23 PM | #38 | ||||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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Quote:
Quote:
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Daniel Last edited by vztrt; 18-07-2010 at 07:39 PM. |
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18-07-2010, 07:33 PM | #39 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
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Quote:
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Daniel |
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18-07-2010, 07:41 PM | #40 | ||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
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double post
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Daniel Last edited by vztrt; 18-07-2010 at 07:52 PM. |
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18-07-2010, 07:54 PM | #41 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Perth
Posts: 115
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only a truckie knows big torque diesels
The truck I drive has 625 HP (466kw) and 1250 lb/ft or torque at idle. Without the tailer it's quite a ride. |
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18-07-2010, 08:00 PM | #42 | ||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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I wouldn't, no. But fit the diesel to the ute (especially an RTV) and I can see it being a nice little niche seller.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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18-07-2010, 08:05 PM | #43 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 11,647
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I wouldn't. I'm not in a position to buy a car at the moment and won't be for a few years. I'm not a fan of diesels. I get 9.4 around town out of my XR5 and around 7.5 on the highway, so the extra cost for deisel wouldn't amount to any benefits over the cost of fuel and my economy in my current car. If I want better fuel savings, I'll look first at the 4cyl Mondeo Wagon before a 6 cylinder deisel falcon. And things like it being RWD doesn't bother me. Theres a list of other priorities without worrying about what wheels drive the car.
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FG2 XR6T KIA Cerato 2022 Kawasaki Z900
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18-07-2010, 08:05 PM | #44 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,102
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Quote:
At least, if nothing else, it will stop the complaints about the Falcon being nothing more than a taxi car. |
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18-07-2010, 08:09 PM | #45 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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Daniel |
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18-07-2010, 08:10 PM | #46 | |||
Rob
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Location: Woodcroft S.A.
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18-07-2010, 08:53 PM | #47 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Quote:
__________________
Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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18-07-2010, 08:58 PM | #48 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
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Quote:
I was talking bout in OZ. A lot of the world has diesel taxis (but diesel is cheaper as well). Funny enough Singapore is mainly diesels, but they also have a few Hybrids and LNG taxis running around now.
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Daniel |
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18-07-2010, 09:02 PM | #49 | ||
XC AMS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 101
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The only way I would consider a diesel is if it was in a base model falcon ute for work... But I have a Bf dedicated gas xl ute now and its great, so I doubt I'd ever get a diesel.
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18-07-2010, 09:07 PM | #50 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 120
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A 3 litre plus twin turbo diesel in a falcon could work quite well. The xr5 are a volvo engine.
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18-07-2010, 09:16 PM | #51 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
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I'm trying to understand the other side of the argument.
Compared to other companies, Ford has healthy LPG sales numbers so I guess you could consider that as their alternative to Diesel which is already in place . Now that Ford US is supporting roll out of the I-4 Ecoboost, another engine now appears more economically viable than developing a V6 diesel Falcon. I can see why a company with limited funds has only so much cash to spend would play to its strengths and accept a good cost effective corporate engine. So while a V6 diesel may be a possible future engine option, maybe the engine Ford wants (TT 3.0) is not yet available for the right price and perhaps LPG and Ecoboost offer Ford's customers all the economy they really need. I'd like a diesel but not at any price and certainly not at the cost of excluding an engine (like LPG or even Ecoboost) which potentially draws upwards of 6,000 sales a year. I think Ford will watch sales of diesel Territory, Ecoboost and LPG Falcon and draw their own conclusions. |
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18-07-2010, 09:18 PM | #52 | ||
Living in GT Nirvana
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,371
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If it was a turbo diesel, a 6 cyl and as good as Audi's 6 cyl diesels, I'd buy one. Just been testing an Audi 2.7l turbo diesel and they are smooth, pull hard from 1200rpm and OK for freeway overtaking.
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18-07-2010, 09:24 PM | #53 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,296
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People forget that the Falcon I6 is a low-revving, 'lazy' engine with very similar characteristics (high torque at low rpm) to a diesel engine. Power delivery may be slightly different, but at the end of the day, the net result is similar if not BETTER in favour of the diesel.
Diesel engines are certainly built to last. They need to be in order to cope with the combustion characteristics of the fuel. The very high compression ratios (at least 16:1) combined with turbocharging and intercooling increases torque and thermal efficiency to levels well beyond what you'd expect from a petrol engine with a similar displacement. Additionally, there's no ignition system in a diesel, so there are no expensive coils, leads or spark plugs to replace and your engine will run smoother for longer. Have a look at heavy duty vehicles (heavy trucks, buses) around you. Do any of them run on petrol? I think not. CNG/LNG (methane) engines come a close second. The exteremly high octane number (at least 120RON equivalent) of methane allows the use of very high compression ratios (beyond 12:1) and/or turbocharging to increase torque to beyond petrol levels. The only downsides to these fuels are higher consumption compared to petrol and the requirement for additional storage space to accommodate gas cylinders. LPG (propane/butane) has similar characteristics but generally can't quite match methane.
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PoweredByCNG: Sick and tired of all the ignorant 'gas is crap' comments out there. |
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18-07-2010, 10:40 PM | #54 | ||||
You can't stop the signal
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Behind a computer at work
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Cheers
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18-07-2010, 11:23 PM | #55 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SA
Posts: 5,213
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Save it for the Territory as another model in the lineup.
Dont intrude on the Mondeo. |
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19-07-2010, 07:36 AM | #56 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Barossa Valley, South Australia
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Cheers, Sam. |
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19-07-2010, 09:43 AM | #57 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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Quote:
Look at how they dramatically underestimated demand for Diesel Mondeos in Australia. Trust me, Ford gets it wrong a lot! |
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19-07-2010, 09:52 AM | #58 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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I personally think EcoBoost will be a sales disaster in this country, the likes of which we havnt seen since the 3.2litre EA.
They are spending all that money to fit the diesel in the Territory, just adding it Falcon ute would probably outsell the entire EcoBoost sedan range. If I was Ford I would be aiming for parts harmonisation as much as possible between Territory and Falcon, having seperate engines is nonsense. Ford AU are going to have to educate the buying public on the benefits of EcoBoost (which are many), but I dont think they have the skill level to achieve this. Instead they should tag-along on the Euros which have already done all the hard work on selling diesel as a mainstream engine. Diesel Falcon will get sales especially among private buyers, LPG will get the fleets - its a perfect tow-pronged attack. It also increase the economies of scale of fitting the diesel to the Terriotry. |
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19-07-2010, 09:58 AM | #59 | ||
Trev
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
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[QUOTE=PoweredByCNG]Diesel engines are certainly built to last. They need to be in order to cope with the combustion characteristics of the fuel. The very high compression ratios (at least 16:1) combined with turbocharging and intercooling increases torque and thermal efficiency to levels well beyond what you'd expect from a petrol engine with a similar displacement. Additionally, there's no ignition system in a diesel, so there are no expensive coils, leads or
Yeah just $2000 injector pumps to replace every 100,000km or so along with more expensive filters, oils etc. There are clearly advantages but both sides of the argument should be given.
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Trev (FPV FG II GT-E thus the fully loaded burger with the lot as standard +Alpine/Dynamat fitout - 2 of only 4 ever made GT-E factory 9" rear rims - Michelin Pilot Supersports - Shockworks Suspension) |
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19-07-2010, 10:01 AM | #60 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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