Vfacts July 2010

[Road_Warrior]

This situation with monthly sales is starting to get silly. Actually no, it was silly 6 months ago, now its absolutely diabolical.

All of those pie in the sky dreams of global RWD platforms, Lincolns and Falcon exports will become nothing more than that unless management sort this issue out. And I think it has more to do with the pointy end of the business, not the back end.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I wonder what went wrong in the market place to cause Falcon sales to slip that badly.

Holden, Mazda and Hyundai are hitting the advertising pretty hard at the moment, with some good ads. Also, the Commodore is in runout mode so no doubt there are some incentives to move them. The Ford ads are from last year and are lame.

I think Fords overall product mix is letting them down. Old Focus, old Territory, old Ranger, the Escape, these cars simply can't compete with more modern looking competitors with more features, with equal pricing. The ute isn't being advertised at all, which in itself is stupid, but at least with the Falcon there is a core of 2-2500 people a month that want a large RWD car with a Ford badge on it. But for how long? I think the perception of a large car with a large engine being a fuel guzzler is hurting it, as well as a lack of a decent, modern looking wagon variant. Say what you will about Holden's Sportwagon, one thing the Sportwagon has done for the Commodore volumes is kept them buoyant. It's given people one more reason to visit a Holden dealer.

I also feel that with the buying public there is a 'once bitten, twice shy' mindset that may be a hangover from quality and service standards from a few years ago.

[SVTVNM]

Not to go off topic, but maybe the CASH for CLUNKERS scheme that might be introduced should only apply to replacing the old cars with Australian made cars to help prop up the industry. Just a thought.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by prydey

its about saving the local auto manufacturing scene!! there'd be tens of thousands of jobs wrapped up in the industry and it is facing real pressure to survive.

the choice is still there.

And you are 100% certain that charging more for imported cars will save the industry?

No, you're wrong, the choice isn't there. You're effectively forcing people to buy what's made locally. So you can "choose" anything as long as it is a large sedan, stationwagon, a ute or a large SUV. That's it. Sorry no thanks.

The locals will get my money when they actually make something I want, i'm not supporting an organisation who cannot get their product range right.
It looks like I'm not the only one either judging by the figures.

[Chopped]

What other countries add tariffs to imported vehicles ? (I'm sure it's not just Australia that does it/did it).

Ford need a "Cruze" car / in comparison the Focus is a sales flop (even though it is a better car!!). The Cruze is nearly matching the Falcon sales each month. OUCH !

Another Flop is the Aurion. Large Sedan with FWD has failed against the RWD challengers.

[The Snout]

I think it would be a bit rich to put tarriffs on a Mazda 3 or Ford Focus when there isn't even an equivalent Australian product you could choose from. Same for 4x4s.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Wretched

And you are 100% certain that charging more for imported cars will save the industry?

No, you're wrong, the choice isn't there. You're effectively forcing people to buy what's made locally. So you can "choose" anything as long as it is a large sedan, stationwagon, a ute or a large SUV. That's it. Sorry no thanks.

The locals will get my money when they actually make something I want, i'm not supporting an organisation who cannot get their product range right.
It looks like I'm not the only one either judging by the figures.

i do believe a lot people buy on cost price of the vehicle, if great wall vehicles were on par cost with a local equivelent, lets say a a falcon or commodore ute do you think anyone would buy the dodgey chinese ute? and i don`t believe anyone is being forced to buy anything, but if the cheap imports were price matched or a tad more it would certainly make our local built cars a good prospect.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by The Snout

I think it would be a bit rich to put tarriffs on a Mazda 3 or Ford Focus when there isn't even an equivalent Australian product you could choose from. Same for 4x4s.

Do you have the same thoughts once Local Curize is built??

Originally Posted by Chopped

Ford need a "Cruze" car / in comparison the Focus is a sales flop (even though it is a better car!!).

Going to disagree.. I can totally see why the Cruze is killing the Foucs *****!!! If I was in the market for a small car, I'd pick Cruze of Focus..

Originally Posted by SVTVNM

Not to go off topic, but maybe the CASH for CLUNKERS scheme that might be introduced should only apply to replacing the old cars with Australian made cars to help prop up the industry. Just a thought.

I like that idea!!

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Wretched

And you are 100% certain that charging more for imported cars will save the industry?

No, you're wrong, the choice isn't there. You're effectively forcing people to buy what's made locally. So you can "choose" anything as long as it is a large sedan, stationwagon, a ute or a large SUV. That's it. Sorry no thanks.

The locals will get my money when they actually make something I want, i'm not supporting an organisation who cannot get their product range right.
It looks like I'm not the only one either judging by the figures.

What do you mean the locals don't make what you want?

SUV? Territory Check
Midsize? Camry Check
Small? Cruze check
Alternative fuels? LPG and hybrid and soon diesel check
Luxo premium sedan? Caprice check
Performance? XR6 turbo Check
Muscle? FPV/HSV check
Safety? 5 star ANCAPS and consistently high level of dynamics and braking Check
Hatcback? Sportwagon check
Utility? Falcon ute check

The Australian based car manufacturers have just about every nook and cranny of the car market covered that they possibly can. Sometimes you have to stop blaming the industry and start realising most customers are idiots.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

What do you mean the locals don't make what you want?

SUV? Territory Check
Midsize? Camry Check
Small? Cruze check
Alternative fuels? LPG and hybrid and soon diesel check
Luxo premium sedan? Caprice check
Performance? XR6 turbo Check
Muscle? FPV/HSV check
Safety? 5 star ANCAPS and consistently high level of dynamics and braking Check
Hatcback? Sportwagon check
Utility? Falcon ute check

The Australian based car manufacturers have just about every nook and cranny of the car market covered that they possibly can. Sometimes you have to stop blaming the industry and start realising most customers are idiots.

Cruze not made here yet.
Sportswagon != Hatch back.

So what about if someone wants a Focus, Fiesta, Corolla, Mazda 3?
What happens to the guy who is doing well and decides to splash out on a BMW 135i. None of these types of cars are offered by the locals.

So my comments still stand, locals DO NOT cover all bases and again why should we have to buy them? Where is the choice? Why should I be punished for buying a Mazda 3 over a Falcon when the Mazda suits me better? Why should I buy a F6 if a WRX is all I need? Starting to get the idea??
I have bought many local made and in the end i have found they're not suitable for me. But your saying I should be made to buy any of the above even if I have no use for them? Wow, am glad you're not running the country.

May be the problem is the cost of manufacturing here in this country.
Is it viable anymore?
Everyone wants to be paid the big bucks but haven't got the forsight to see the problems with that. You increase the pay of a manufacturing worker, the cost of the product being made must go up.
Everyone gets paid more cost of living goes up, inflation increases and we become uncompetitive in the market. It's our own fault.

You can increase the tariffs but I bet it won't make a difference. I'd still still buy an import, second hand or keep my current car.

How many here ramp on about buying local cars, yet haven't bought a brand new car for 5+ years or ever?

[Road_Warrior]

I think its pretty unfair to blame buyers. If you don't have a product that people want, then people won't buy it.

So if people aren't buying your product, you have to ask yourself: why aren't people buying my product?

Looks?
Features?
Price?
Service?
Reliability/quality?
Availability?

Lets face it, there are quite a few cars in Ford's lineup that fail some of those criteria.

Its a free market, and its a cut-throat market as well. If you don't have the right product, then people will happily vote with their wallets elsewhere and couldnt care less about patriotic arguments about why they shouldn't. I think the sales figures for last month demonstrate that Ford don't have the right products and what fresh products they do have, are being poorly promoted.

Ford need to give people a reason to walk into their showrooms and buy their cars. Having the right products that tick all of the above boxes is that reason.

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Do you have the same thoughts once Local Curize is built??

If you're going to do tariffs I'm making the point that you can't just tariff every imported car if a consumer can't even buy Australian anyway.

But in general, no I'm not in favor of tariffs. I think we pay enough in this country for cars without having to pay even more.

[bmorris]

We shouldn't have tariffs, people shouldn't be punished for wanting a product not made locally.

However... the government should do more to support local manufacturing. In the end we can't make cars locally at the same price as in China or Korea. Therefore, the government needs to step in and help cover some of the extra cost or help pay for the cost of making the locals more efficient and dynamic.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by bmorris

We shouldn't have tariffs, people shouldn't be punished for wanting a product not made locally.

However... the government should do more to support local manufacturing. In the end we can't make cars locally at the same price as in China or Korea. Therefore, the government needs to step in and help cover some of the extra cost or help pay for the cost of making the locals more efficient and dynamic.

The governmets do and have been for a long time in the form of money to design and manufacture here. Instead of tarrifs they get grants. Ford, Holden and Toyota do have support.

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...ml?autostart=1

Surge in SUVs could help new car sales hit the million mark STEPHEN OTTLEY
August 5, 2010

New car sales are booming because of Australia's love affair with sports utility vehicles. The high-riding off-roader is helping keep the market on track to reach 1 million sales this year.

Sales figures for last month released by the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries show the industry is 15.6 per cent up on the same period last year. Not even a small dip caused by the end of financial year has dampened the spirits of the industry. A total of 82,376 new vehicles were sold last month, a 9.3 per cent rise on the previous July. Compared with 108,722 vehicles sold in June it is a 24.2 per cent drop.

The chamber's chief executive, Andrew McKellar, said the result was still encouraging because of the return of private buyers to the market. "This is a very solid result for July with the start of the new financial year usually resulting in slower sales," he said. "These figures provide further evidence that sales to private customers continue to increase strongly, recording a 20 per cent rise compared to this time last year."

Despite concerns about the price of petrol and the environment, private buyers are still flocking to SUVs. Their sales rose by 29 per cent last month - the best across the whole market - and 30.5 per cent for the year.

Sales of compact SUVs were up 44.2 per cent last month and are up 34.7 per cent for this year. It is a similar story for medium and large SUVs. Both show growth of more than 20 per cent, which is ahead of the industry.

Mr McKellar was cautious about predicting new car sales of 1 million but said the chamber had revised its annual forecast up since the start of the year.

"Our forecast is 980,000. Admittedly that is a conservative forecast," Mr McKellar said. "We did have a strong final quarter last year. You'd need another strong final quarter this year to get over that million units mark. It certainly remains a possibility."

He dismissed concerns that the federal election could negatively affect sales figures this month. "I don't think it has a major impact … It tends to be concentrated into the final week," he said. Toyota continues to lead the industry, ahead of Holden, Ford, Mazda and Hyundai.

Source: The Sydney Morning Herald

[vztrt]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/77040/ma...-half-of-2010/

Mazda sales hold strong in July and second half of 2010
By Brett Davis | August 5th, 2010 7 Comments

Mazda Australia sales have proven to be strong in the second half of 2010, as the company reports to have sold 7374 passenger cars and commercial vehicles in July alone.

According to VFACTS, the Mazda3 remains as Australia’s best selling small car and second best selling overall passenger car, selling 3464 units just last month, an increase of 11 percent compared to the same time last year.

The Mazda2 also sold very well during July, with Mazda delivering 1305 units to its customers. This figure is also up on last year’s by 8.3 percent.

It’s not just small cars either, according to VFACTS the company outsold the rivals in the medium car sector as well, albeit strictly regarding Australia’s import sales, Mazda sold 634 of its Mazda6 models in July, leading the market segment by 134 units.

Doug Dickson, Mazda Australia managing director, said about the sales,

“One of Mazda’s greatest strengths is that it offers a diverse product portfolio that continues to appeal to a wide range of Australian buyers. In short, we have something for everyone.”

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Cruze not made here yet.
Sportswagon != Hatch back.

So what about if someone wants a Focus, Fiesta, Corolla, Mazda 3?
What happens to the guy who is doing well and decides to splash out on a BMW 135i. None of these types of cars are offered by the locals.

So my comments still stand, locals DO NOT cover all bases and again why should we have to buy them? Where is the choice? Why should I be punished for buying a Mazda 3 over a Falcon when the Mazda suits me better? Why should I buy a F6 if a WRX is all I need? Starting to get the idea??
I have bought many local made and in the end i have found they're not suitable for me. But your saying I should be made to buy any of the above even if I have no use for them? Wow, am glad you're not running the country.

May be the problem is the cost of manufacturing here in this country.
Is it viable anymore?
Everyone wants to be paid the big bucks but haven't got the forsight to see the problems with that. You increase the pay of a manufacturing worker, the cost of the product being made must go up.
Everyone gets paid more cost of living goes up, inflation increases and we become uncompetitive in the market. It's our own fault.

You can increase the tariffs but I bet it won't make a difference. I'd still still buy an import, second hand or keep my current car.

How many here ramp on about buying local cars, yet haven't bought a brand new car for 5+ years or ever?

Corolla, Mazda 3 and Focus are small cars. Cruze will be in the same class if you want. Its not about having every single car available, just the widest spread look at it this way

Class
A: Import (extremely low demand anyway)
B: Import (this market is driven by cost)
C: Cruze
D: Camry
E: Falcon Commodore Aurion
F: Caprice
Small SUV: Import only
Midsize SUV: Territory
Full size SUV: Import only
Sport: Elfin
Super Sport: Bowell etc.

Given we really only have 3 factories in Australia we've got a pretty good spread of cars.

Cost of manufacturing is a farce, over a 14 year life a locally made car will be cheaper to maintain than an imported one. The real issue is some people liken foreign cars to a fashion statement. That's why the tariff should stay, as long as the locals have to carry the stigma of being local the foreigners should pay a tariff.

[prydey]

some of you guys aren't viewing this the right way.

if the falcon was made in china, then there is a good chance a base model falcon brand new would be around $25k. there is no way australia could ever compete with that sort of pricing.

people (many of them) buy on price. many on here bagged the 'great wall' brand of cars as being death traps and 'heaps of junk' and yet they are still selling cars. when you can buy 2 for the similare price of 1 hilux....

holden and ford are in desparate times at the moment. toyota is the only one that really has a global product so even if its not doing that well locally it is offset a bit by its global performance. i doubt falcon can survive long term on those sort of figures. they may not need to lead the sales race to turn a profit but i can't believe they can hold their head above water for too long by selling less than 2500units.

why do you think there is such a stink made when a big coorporation wants to move in on a small town. lets use supermarkets as an example. if woolies sets up in a small town, the locals rally behind their small local for a while but sooner of later they go under as they can't compete with the buying power of the big company.

[Joe5619]

I was reading this artcile (as a whole not really relative to this topic)
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010...NEWS/100809987

But.....

Under the Ranger section I read this

"But this is unlikely because of the 25 percent tax on imported pickups. That tax would mean boosting the price of the Ranger close to that of the F-series trucks--a tough sell for pickup buyers."




Interesting a country the size of US can help protect local jobs with a 25% import tax.. YES a 25% import tax, yet our governemnt just dropped them from 10 to 5%!!

[prydey]

its almost like the govt thinks competition and lower pricing will force the local products to be better priced but instead, how many parts suppliers have gone under in the last few years?

its not really about local product v import as most of our local products are made from imported products. its just not viable to produce products at the same rate as other countries.

how many people here would be happy to go to work for $5 -$10/hr? should people in the auto industry be made to work for peanuts simply so the industry can be competitive?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Interesting a country the size of US can help protect local jobs with a 25% import tax.. YES a 25% import tax, yet our governemnt just dropped them from 10 to 5%!!

It's also one of the reasons why US car buyers were getting rubbish products. One 'benefit' if you will of having the tarrifs cut is that it encourages local manufacturers to get their collective acts together. In saying that, as detailed above, many components in locally made cars are from overseas anyway so the whole thing seems to be a little bit self defeating.

Foreign car makers such as Toyota, Honduh and Subaru built factories in the US and make cars there to bypass US import taxes.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The top ten cars for the month were:
1) Holden Commodore 3783
2) Mazda3 3464
3) Toyota Corolla 3375
4)Toyota Hilux 3106
5) Ford Falcon 2342........
6) Hyundai i30 2333
7) Holden Cruze 2179.....(Down from last month's highs)
8) Mitsubishi Lancer 2177
9) Toyota Camry 2095
10) Toyota Yaris 1697

Is all quite simple really. Holden only 5 years ago were making 16000 cars a month out off the Elizabeth Plant. You take 2 parts buyers each from Campbellfeild and Altona and close those two plants. Sell all the machinery from those two plants to repay some of the 10 billion dollars us taxpayers have subsidised them for the last so many years. You then make the commodore, Falcon, camry and aurion at Elizabeth, and you are still left with production capacity to export.

Thats what normal car companies would do overseas when they want a productive business that utilises machinery efficiently.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It's also one of the reasons why US car buyers were getting rubbish products. One 'benefit' if you will of having the tarrifs cut is that it encourages local manufacturers to get their collective acts together.

Foreign car makers such as Toyota, Honduh and Subaru built factories in the US and make cars there to bypass US import taxes.

ford (US) could close down ford (AUS) and set up its manufacturing in china and then export it back to australia and probably still sell it cheaper than what it currently is. we'd still have the falcon but it would be made in china.

[b0son]

which segment of the market is the one pushing the biggest volumes?

i keep hearing about Aus being unable to compete against cheaper foreign product, but is it the cheap stuff thats making up the numbers? daewoo/kia/suzuki arent in the top 10 .... hell, even VW are in the top 10. suggest to me people are happy to pay more for better.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by prydey

how many people here would be happy to go to work for $5 -$10/hr? should people in the auto industry be made to work for peanuts simply so the industry can be competitive?

$5 an hour is still too much. Ford pays it's Mexican workers $2 an hour.

We are uncompetitive in our own market for a number of reasons. I believe the biggest one, and one that nobody has touched yet is the strong Aussie dollar. When the dollar does reverse we will see the local manufacturers become competitive again in pricing.

[bobthebilda]

irish2]$5 an hour is still too much. Ford pays it's Mexican workers $2 an hour.

Well, I dont see why one man is created any differently to another, so why doesnt Ford introduce the $2 per hour rate into Australia

We are uncompetitive in our own market for a number of reasons. I believe the biggest one, and one that nobody has touched yet is the strong Aussie dollar. When the dollar does reverse we will see the local manufacturers become competitive again in pricing

I would hazard to guess, that the only reason why the australian dollar will fall, would be due to a collapse in the export prices of our commodities. In turn, State Governments income would collapse due to the taxes it collects from the industry. This would thus result in the largest purchaser of Australian cars to look more carefully on what it spends its money on.

And as the locally made cars have a high level of imported parts, then they would have an immediate hit to the profitability of the car.

Sometimes, you need to be careful of what you wish for.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by irish2

$5 an hour is still too much. Ford pays it's Mexican workers $2 an hour.

The story is that existing workers as of 2008 were on $4.50/hour (good wage in Mexico btw) and all new hires are on $2.25/hour under Ford's two tier wage system.

Funny though because Ford has said that wages make up only about 10% of a US vehicle's build costs.
Ford must be making some ripper profits on Fusion and Lincoln MKZ.......

[GS608]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Well, I dont see why one man is created any differently to another, so why doesnt Ford introduce the $2 per hour rate into Australia

I hope you're just stirring **** and aren't actually that dumb.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Corolla, Mazda 3 and Focus are small cars. Cruze will be in the same class if you want. Its not about having every single car available, just the widest spread look at it this way

Class
A: Import (extremely low demand anyway)
B: Import (this market is driven by cost)
C: Cruze
D: Camry
E: Falcon Commodore Aurion
F: Caprice
Small SUV: Import only
Midsize SUV: Territory
Full size SUV: Import only
Sport: Elfin
Super Sport: Bowell etc.

Given we really only have 3 factories in Australia we've got a pretty good spread of cars.

Cost of manufacturing is a farce, over a 14 year life a locally made car will be cheaper to maintain than an imported one. The real issue is some people liken foreign cars to a fashion statement. That's why the tariff should stay, as long as the locals have to carry the stigma of being local the foreigners should pay a tariff.

My old Ford dealer has a stigma and it has nothing to do with being local. He is just a egomanical little man, who is lousy at running a dealership and lacks even basic marketing and customer skills.

How does a tariff fix that?

No thanks. I will accept a tariff when you can prove to me that Ford dealers and Ford Australia have their act together. They sure haven't right now.

Dan

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Interesting a country the size of US can help protect local jobs with a 25% import tax.. YES a 25% import tax, yet our governemnt just dropped them from 10 to 5%!!

You mean the same country where 2 of their car manufactures went into Ch 11, then had to be bailed by the government?