Falcon at forefront of stop-start technology - Page 2

Bossxr8 · 29-12-2010, 11:40 AM

I'm pretty sure all the current vehicles that have this feature also have on on/off button for people who don't want to use it, so don't worry too much if you don't like it as you don't have to use it if you don't want to.

Veefore · 29-12-2010, 12:25 PM

All petrol powered golf buggies work the same way.
the days of cars using more fuel to start up than to idle are long gone. In heavily congested areas this kind of technology could save thousands of dollars worth of fuel a day and reduce emissions substantially.
As far as reliability, if the starter, battery etc. are chosen correctly for the application then there should really be no problem.

Personally I think it is a great idea.

Wardo · 29-12-2010, 12:43 PM

It sounds weird, but I'm sure the concerns of most people regarding batteries\starter motors\ wear and tear would have been sorted during the 1000's of km's in testing, and it's not really a new thing as hybrids have been doing it for years.

I know some only stop when you put the handbrake on (Mini I think), others have to be in nuetral with the clutch out, and have inbuilt delays to account for stop start traffic.

Anything that slows the relentless march of the hybrid is a good think in my eyes.

4.0i_SiX · 29-12-2010, 05:53 PM

I know I wouldnt want to be sitting in a traffic jam on a humid summer day in QLD without the A/C working

**DJM83** · 29-12-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

You could make money selling starter motors.

never thought of that.

Danny · 29-12-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wardo

It sounds weird, but I'm sure the concerns of most people regarding batteries\starter motors\ wear and tear would have been sorted during the 1000's of km's in testing.

It's great to know someone here is using common sense.. Thank god.

Can you people REALLY imagine all these cars going out into the fray with such polarizing technology if every single conceivable failure or problem hadn't been tested?

Either that or you all need to go and get jobs with engineering arms of all these car companies in question..

Mr Hardware · 29-12-2010, 06:58 PM

You're quite right danny, every time i've bought a car with first-generation technology it has been flawless for the life of it.

NOT

04redxr8 · 29-12-2010, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

It's great to know someone here is using common sense.. Thank god.

Can you people REALLY imagine all these cars going out into the fray with such polarizing technology if every single conceivable failure or problem hadn't been tested?

Either that or you all need to go and get jobs with engineering arms of all these car companies in question..

Ahhh yeah, but have you ever sampled Chinese Made Quality? Once parts and components start being sourced from there, we will have problems.

How often do we have recall threads. Theres currently one regarding a seat mounting. Hardly cutting edge technology, but failing none the less.

If it can make our lives simpler, it can also cause more problems.

Ben73 · 29-12-2010, 10:35 PM

Is the word "forefront" really applicable in the thread title.

Ford is defiantly not the first to use this technology that has been around for a "long" time.

AlbertM · 29-12-2010, 11:03 PM

Wonder how much extra fuel you will burn to recover the battery capacity after an hour or so of stop start running. The poor alternator is going to have to work more.

04redxr8 · 30-12-2010, 08:26 AM

Just had a thought. It is going to be interesting to watch the doof doof brigade at lights.

jpd80 · 30-12-2010, 08:38 AM

This is what stop/start is all about, look at the Euro test cycle below and see all of the
points where fuel shut off and engine off can save manufacturers heaps of economy:

On a positive note, Ford were originally saying EB I-4 would improve Falcon fuel economy by 20%
and if they add stop/start to this they may get another 5-10% on top again so if we consider
I-6 with ZF is roughly 9.9 l/100 km, EB I-4 may well come down to 7 l/100 km <- that's like a Focus!!!

Guess Holden won't have those fuel economy bragging rights any more.......

glavas · 30-12-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.0i_SiX

I know I wouldnt want to be sitting in a traffic jam on a humid summer day in QLD without the A/C working

man up!!!!! what did you do in the days of no air conditioning?

Joe5619 · 30-12-2010, 11:38 AM

I'm confused.. Are they saying Falcon EB willl have this when introduced or will get it at some stage??

The fact that the humble Falcon could have some of the worlds greatest & lastest tech under the bonnet, I think is a great step for Falcon.. EB engine with stop/ start.. Got to lose some of the "Dinosaur" tag?

kezzer · 30-12-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

man up!!!!! what did you do in the days of no air conditioning?

get heatstroke, spew all over ur interior, heatrash, get a migraine, faint at the wheel and cause an accident, coma, drive ur car into the ocean to cool urself down.

kezzer · 30-12-2010, 11:45 AM

Really in Australia I see this sort of technology a waste. It's nice to "brag" with ADR figures, but really, there's so many other things they can do to reduce fuel eco with having to turn the engine off.

Danny · 30-12-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

You're quite right danny, every time i've bought a car with first-generation technology it has been flawless for the life of it.

NOT

So you have had issues with your "intech" SOHC have you, sorry mate, but an LPG AU ain't at the forefront of anything....

Yes, new technology can have teething problems, However Ben73 hit the nail on the head. It is NOT new technology at all. Audi, Mini, BMW, Toyota, Honda have been doing this for a long time and as far as I know, there ain't any major issues so far.

Ford will ensure than every conceivable problem or potential issue is covered before this thing goes into production. If there are any issues or recalls, it will be down to pure bad luck, or because of something unforeseen. It happens.

**DFB FGXR6** · 30-12-2010, 12:43 PM

Slightly off topic, but how will this new Ecoboost engine affect insurance values because it just so happens to have a "turbo"? I have a very conservetive (falcon owning) uncle who asked me this question over christmas, saying he would not buy one because it has a turbo. I personally think this is a stupid way to look at (it will have less power than the I6), but if others, including big fleets, have this perception, could this affect potential sales?

Another thing to consider is the the P-Plate rules in Victoria banning turbo's ect. Could this sway family buyers with teens away as well? Maybe the government will give it special exemption?

Either way this engine will make a great edition to the Falcon range (with or without stop/start) and cant wait to see what models will have access to the "EcoBoost Option"

jpd80 · 30-12-2010, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kezzer

Really in Australia I see this sort of technology a waste. It's nice to "brag" with ADR figures, but really, there's so many other things they can do to reduce fuel eco with having to turn the engine off.

To make stop/start work properly in a hot climate like Australia, you'd need
to have electric drive on A/C like hybrid and perhaps a second battery.......

jpd80 · 30-12-2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Slightly off topic, but how will this new Ecoboost engine affect insurance values because it just so happens to have a "turbo"? I have a very conservetive (falcon owning) uncle who asked me this question over christmas, saying he would not buy one because it has a turbo. I personally think this is a stupid way to look at (it will have less power than the I6), but if others, including big fleets, have this perception, could this affect potential sales?

Another thing to consider is the the P-Plate rules in Victoria banning turbo's ect. Could this sway family buyers with teens away as well? Maybe the government will give it special exemption?

Either way this engine will make a great edition to the Falcon range (with or without stop/start) and cant wait to see what models will have access to the "EcoBoost Option"

I think RTA and insurance companies are going to have to change their view on small capacity turbo engines,
it may come back to a power/weight ratio to resolve the conflict.

Whooo, ricer Falcon with a power up kit...550 hp scaring the bejeezus out of wonderboy's R8....

**DFB FGXR6** · 30-12-2010, 01:08 PM

I remember reading a while ago (early last year) a bunch of small turbo/supercharged engines in the VW (Golf) and Benz (C-Class) ranges received exemptions from the P-Plate rules because the respective companies kicked up a stink about how they were only family cars not performance cars and that they were loosing sales. Hope Ford are sorting this out prior to it going on sale.

kezzer · 30-12-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

To make stop/start work properly in a hot climate like Australia, you'd need
to have electric drive on A/C like hybrid and perhaps a second battery.......

yeah which is extra weight, extra servicing/replacement costs etc. Might as well buy a hybrid.

Don't see this as being feasible.

Brent · 30-12-2010, 01:25 PM

Just another thing to go wrong 2 minutes after the new car warranty has expired. A lot of hassle for a very modest fuel saving, surely? How about just being a little lighter on the loud pedal and you'd save twice the amount of fuel.

jpd80 · 30-12-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kezzer

yeah which is extra weight, extra servicing/replacement costs etc. Might as well buy a hybrid.

Don't see this as being feasible.

Perhaps not now but with the coming of passive hybrids ...maybe

MexicanBatman · 30-12-2010, 03:25 PM

The car I have driven that is fitted with this comes fro
Factory with a belt operated starter not a traditional starter. Also an upgraded battery and alternator also the function doesn't operate until the vehicle is well warmed up and driven for a while.... Also the engine does not crank to start it starts on half a revolution. That said I just turned it off

jpd80 · 30-12-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

The car I have driven that is fitted with this comes fro
Factory with a belt operated starter not a traditional starter. Also an upgraded battery and alternator also the function doesn't operate until the vehicle is well warmed up and driven for a while.... Also the engine does not crank to start it starts on half a revolution. That said I just turned it off

GM had a Belt-Alternator-Starter or BSA passive hybrid system a while ago which
relied on the the Alternator also being a starter motor to which a larger belt was fitted.

edit,
GM has upgraded BAS and now calls this system e-Assist, it will be available on Buick LaCrosse.

Bosch have a version of BAS that Ford is implementing on the Transit in Europe.

smoo · 30-12-2010, 06:19 PM

Hows about using the money elsewhere to discourage people from using their cars in the environment stop start technology is designed for

20focus05 · 30-12-2010, 06:28 PM

Once they are out there will be all these complaints of the car stalling at lights.
I work in a toyota dealership and it is endless with the Prius!!!!

jpd80 · 30-12-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoo

Hows about using the money elsewhere to discourage people from using their cars in the environment stop start technology is designed for

Like knocking down all the parking stations?

Franco Cozzo · 30-12-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavas

man up!!!!! what did you do in the days of no air conditioning?

I didn't exist?

I don't like the idea of this stop and start thing, especially if you happen to get caught at a few sets of lights in the CBD or something, car stops, car starts, 30 seconds down the road, car stops, car starts, so on so forth, the battery is going to be taking a beating, the alternator won't be able to top it up fully by the time the next time it turns off.