Ford to Tear Down EcoBoost V-6 "Torture Test" Engine at Detroit Auto Show

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Age and thousands of cold starts can't be simulated in a few short months of durability testing. That is where most of the wear occurs in an engine and probably causes most of the power loss that occurs over time and k's.

These durability test engines run for long periods at a time and probably don't have a lot of cold starts during their test lives.

This sound right to me. I did read somewhere once (i think it was ford of europe) that ford engineers had built a rig that basically sat in an assembled car (as in almost production spec) and just pushed buttons and turned the wheel (basically everything you'd do as you drove it around) to test out durability of the interior. Aparently this got some engine guys quite interested in getting it to turn the key (which was part of the rig) but with an actual drivetrain installed to test out this cold start issue. Would be cool to see if they actually do that.

Does anyone have any sort of data RE the loss of power over kms with a stock engine etc.? Would be interesting to see. I heard that properly maintained most modern engines lose alot less than you might think in terms of low down performance but high end power takes a hit (which makes sense given increased friction etc.).

i've driven high mileage cars second hand (ef/au etc) and some of them seem to make great power even compared to much lower mileage examples. In fact some low mileage examples felt pretty gutless in comparison!

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by mik

on the other hand no one in normal use is going to freeze them then run them at full throttle and repeat the process over and over again, so it would seem a fair test.

Agreed, anyone saying this isnt a fair test is kidding themselves, a thermal cycle like that on a motor would be FAR from good.

[cheap]

Maybe I'm missing something and my cynic meter is registering activity, but I have to wonder what "examine" means.

Granted I haven't followed the life and times of these engines, but:

During these performance and durability tests, no doubt these engines had oil and filters changed, after each change has Ford performed independent verifiable analysis of the oil and its contents? Oil analysis is one method of obtaining an idea what wear and tear is occurring within the engine.

Will Ford have micrometers, xray machines and high powered microscopes available to "examine" the crank, rods, bores and other parts during the tear down?

Or is Ford expecting the public to be impressed by a bunch of shiny parts coming out of a externally dirty engine?

This is could be a marketing stunt.

[ltd]

No, you're being a cynic.
If you bothered to see the end of the video there's mention of wear rates and even one cylinder being negligably under (I'm guessing compression). So it's not a "Wow look at us our engines don't wear" marketing piece of crap. This thing has had a hard life.

[cheap]

I can accept being a cynic.

However, I tried a search on "EcoBoost Torture Test Results" and all I got was reference to the video.

Do you know if Ford has/is publishing any detailed information regarding wear and tear characteristics, perhaps oil analysis or any other detailed information. I think you may agree the video has limited information.

[mik]

show me any forum that another motor company has gone into such detail for the general public for a similar test, as Ltd said the fact they reported one cylander down a little shows they are`nt hiding stuff imo.

[cheap]

You're correct, it would be unwise for a manufacturer publish real "wear characteristics", they would be crazy to do so.

Granted the engines were exposed to a variety of conditions and no doubt had the benefit of factory specified regular by-the-book maintenance. However without detailed historical data it is impossible to determine what wear actually occurred or what problems happened or potentially await.
It would be a unwise to state that "Ford ain't hiding stuff..." as far as I can tell Ford hasn't provided sufficient data to make an informed decision. Nor is it in Ford interest to make the data available (see my first point above - Catch 22)

I also think it would be incorrect to imply that other manufactures do not do similar "tests". I think you will find all manufacturers do some level of testing. Some manufacturers do very robust testing, some do less testing, some do testing with fanfare such as the "Torture Test" and some without the fanfare.

Hundreds of thousands of miles, exposed to extreme cold, extreme heat, dust, rain, snow, highest mountain, deepest valley and through The Darién Gap we go! On and on, we've read and heard it all before.

So where does this leave the average Joe consumer? It is usually relies upon thousands of these vehicles/engines entering into the real world and being subjected to the sometimes stupid behavior of the public and without a team of Ford mechanics on stand-by. That's when the warts and all come out, that's when the Forums come into play. And as you know sometimes these warts become recalls.

Time will tell.

[mik]

Originally Posted by cheap

You're correct, it would be unwise for a manufacturer publish real "wear characteristics", they would be crazy to do so.

Granted the engines were exposed to a variety of conditions and no doubt had the benefit of factory specified regular by-the-book maintenance. However without detailed historical data it is impossible to determine what wear actually occurred or what problems happened or potentially await.
It would be a unwise to state that "Ford ain't hiding stuff..." as far as I can tell Ford hasn't provided sufficient data to make an informed decision. Nor is it in Ford interest to make the data available (see my first point above - Catch 22)

I also think it would be incorrect to imply that other manufactures do not do similar "tests". I think you will find all manufacturers do some level of testing. Some manufacturers do very robust testing, some do less testing, some do testing with fanfare such as the "Torture Test" and some without the fanfare.

Hundreds of thousands of miles, exposed to extreme cold, extreme heat, dust, rain, snow, highest mountain, deepest valley and through The Darién Gap we go! On and on, we've read and heard it all before.

So where does this leave the average Joe consumer? It is usually relies upon thousands of these vehicles/engines entering into the real world and being subjected to the sometimes stupid behavior of the public and without a team of Ford mechanics on stand-by. That's when the warts and all come out, that's when the Forums come into play. And as you know sometimes these warts become recalls.

Time will tell.

indeed thats true, and if ford or any other manufacturer where to replace the said test engine with a ringer , and at a later date they were proved to be the strength of a marshmallow rather than as their advertised slogan of "Ford Tuff' the motoring public would absolutely crucify them, i tend to be a bit less cynical and think Ford would be a bit more savvy and the test engine would be legit, but your entitled to your opinion.
cheers.

[cheap]

I doubt Ford would switch engines, if that happened and they didn't disclose then they'd be run out of business, instead a good "test" outcome, Ford documents:

1) All the parts that were replaced (through normal wear and tear + just broke unexpected)
2) Any unplanned service/maintenance/repair
3) Oil analysis throughout the test, suspended contaminants, and wear debris. What % levels of bronze, aluminum and so on were found in the oil and oil filter at each change
4) Compression test through-out the test
5) When they "tear" down the engine, exact measurement of the crank run out, any scoulding of cylinders, bearings, rings, turbo(s) and so on. Exactly compare the abused components to new component specifications
6) Anything else the engineers can think up

All verified by a recognised "independant" 3rd Party. You get the idea...

[pottery beige]

holding it pinned.. boiling its guts out on a burnout pad would have been a good test....

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by cheap

I can accept being a cynic.

However, I tried a search on "EcoBoost Torture Test Results" and all I got was reference to the video.

Do you know if Ford has/is publishing any detailed information regarding wear and tear characteristics, perhaps oil analysis or any other detailed information. I think you may agree the video has limited information.

At the event (I was there) they had up on a board the specifics for a newly assembled engine and compared the test engine to them. These were for crankshaft endplay and valve lash. Both were within spec's for a newly assembled engine after the test.

Phil Fabien, the Engineer who was holding up the turbo and saying if the turbo was not within spec's they would not have made the same amount of power on the dyno, said at the event that the whole engine would be inspected the same as any other test engine. When they get it back to the lab they would do all the nitty-gritty inspections with micrometers and everything else.

I do not know if the results were going to be made public or not or if the info was just going to be for Ford's use. I can write Phil again and see if he can tell me the plans for the results of the thorough inspection. I wrote to him before (I am a Ford employee) and he wrote back with the info I was looking for.

Steve

[Ohio XB]

Ok, took me a few days to remember to write to Phil about this and it's been a few days since he wrote me back.

Phil Fabien says that the engine is continuing to go around the auto show circuit and being put on display. After it makes the rounds it will return to the lab and he said he expects there will be a press release after all the parts have been gone over with a thorough inspection.


Steve

[chevypower]

Thanks for the update, keep us posted!