Does rebuilding a motor entitle you to claim lower mileage?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Probably second time around haha.

Bugger that. That would make 2.5 million k's. It might be getting a little tired by then

[Ben73]

Not exactly odometer related. But if a car has been idling extensively during it's life, in some cases 2hrs+, would that be bad for the engine in the short or long term? Possibly need an engine change at lower kms?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

if they state an amount of km in the ad why would you ask how much km it has again? using the same logic if the ad says its blue would you ask what colour it is? Id be dirty if i went to see it and it had 3 times the km as advertised.

Sometimes in the ad they say rebuilt or new motor 40,000km ago??? What is that?

Ok, I'll say this slow....

That... means... that... if... the... car... has... 340,000k's... on... the... speedo... the... engine... was... rebuilt... at... 300.000 kms.

[FGII-XR6]

it is illegal to represent the car as having traveled less Ks than it has done, end of story there is no grey area including complete resto
in the case of a resto you state when it was done and at what ks that all you can't reduce the Ks

[JG66ME]

Lighten up. If its a newish car then it matters. But take this for an example. Someone has an standard XA that shows 36000 miles. How many times has that been around the clock? They put in a GS dash with a 140 mph speedo that shows 24000 miles. Who cares? The original speedo may have gone around once and the new one tree times.

On old cars that need restoring I ignore the milage. New cars I care.

And where does legality come in when you replace the speedo on a 40 year old car?

In regards to the original post, a new motor does not entitle you to zero the miles. But in view of the above, if the car is restored out of bits, how can you tell and does it matter?

100000 mile car full of rust
300000 mile car, mint restored.

[colinl]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

wouldn't you ask what the odometer reading was before travelling some distance though

if they do not advertise the colour, would you not ask what colour it is before travelling to see it

if it has a fresh engine, gearbox etc. then they want you to know about it. if the odometer reading is there for all to see or ask about before travelling, then where is the problem

in the original post there was nothing about the anyone lying as such, just showing the facts they want you to see, so a quick question or look would fix any problem

I would ask questions related to information not detailed in the ad. If they said in the ad that it has only done 20'000klm, then that is what I would expect to see on the odometer. Just as I would expect to see a blue car if their ad stated it was blue.

If they said 300'000klm, but the engine has only done 20'000klm in the ad that would be fine. If they can't be upfront and open about basic information such as this, you would have to wonder what else they could be trying to hide?

[burnz]

Originally Posted by loftie

The Stat Dec is fine - but I don't have to disclose this to the next buyer - and that is wrong...

yes you do..

Of course it's buyer beware... a car that has done 500,000km will most likely have some trim issues (from basic wear), doors saging possibly, pedal wear (something most people don't even look at)...

Alarm Bells would ring if it was me looking at the car...

But I suppose the point is - the time that is wasted in looking at a so-called low mile car that turns out to be a changeover/cut-shut/repair and sell job... is really painful...

Plenty of inspection companies out there that could give a second opinion... Even some that specialise in collector cars - and not just mainstream...

the RTA in NSW log all odo's every time you reregister, and yes they will check any desrepecies..very thurough in this respect.

[colinl]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

Lighten up. If its a newish car then it matters. But take this for an example. Someone has an standard XA that shows 36000 miles. How many times has that been around the clock? They put in a GS dash with a 140 mph speedo that shows 24000 miles. Who cares? The original speedo may have gone around once and the new one tree times.

On old cars that need restoring I ignore the milage. New cars I care.

And where does legality come in when you replace the speedo on a 40 year old car?

In regards to the original post, a new motor does not entitle you to zero the miles. But in view of the above, if the car is restored out of bits, how can you tell and does it matter?

100000 mile car full of rust
300000 mile car, mint restored.

To be honest I don't really know the legislation on this, but whenever we replaced speedo's we always set the new speedo odometer to reflect the old ones reading.

From my perspective the issue is more of one of trust. If the seller tries to bullsh!t me, then he has blown his sale. In the scenario you mentioned, I would expect the owner to know how many times it has gone around the clock if he has owned it for a long time. If they haven't owned it for long, and are honest about their lack of knowledge regarding the history, I will then base my decision of purchase based on the way the car presents.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

Lighten up. If its a newish car then it matters. But take this for an example. Someone has an standard XA that shows 36000 miles. How many times has that been around the clock? They put in a GS dash with a 140 mph speedo that shows 24000 miles. Who cares? The original speedo may have gone around once and the new one tree times.

On old cars that need restoring I ignore the milage. New cars I care.

And where does legality come in when you replace the speedo on a 40 year old car?

In regards to the original post, a new motor does not entitle you to zero the miles. But in view of the above, if the car is restored out of bits, how can you tell and does it matter?

100000 mile car full of rust
300000 mile car, mint restored.

good call
from what i have seen on carsales recently, the newish cars seem to have realistic km's on them
the older ones have much smaller than you would expect. however, anyone that believes that a 1923 model t has only 600 kms on it is deluded. and anyone that asks the owner how much it has really done should be hung up on

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by colinl

I will then base my decision of purchase based on the way the car presents.

This is what I always do.

[Auturbo6]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Agreed. The odometer displays the age of the vehicle not the motor, in kilometers.

Unless it is a complete resto, including bare metal respray and everything replaced, then it's still the age of the odometer.

The issue is that even if a vehicle has been fully restored, metal fatigue through normal driving is still present in the body. Ever put your hand on the gap between the door and the roof wilst driving, a lot of movement, as the body twists over every undulation in the road.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by Auturbo6

The issue is that even if a vehicle has been fully restored, metal fatigue through normal driving is still present in the body. Ever put your hand on the gap between the door and the roof wilst driving, a lot of movement, as the body twists over every undulation in the road.

So what do you do when you restore a 40 year old car that has no dash board? Should this now be made illegal because you cannot establish the milage? If you believe this you will make a lot of enemies on this forum.

[FGII-XR6]

to put it simply it is a criminal offence to tanper with an odometer or to replace an odometer with the intention to deceive. if you replace the cluster you have 2 options to remain legal
have an instrument tech set it to the same Ks as the old odometer " he will need to see the old one if he is ethical"
or provide documented evidence of the correct reading made up of the old reading the new reading at the time of replacement in the form of a stat dec this documentation should be passed on to all subsequent buyers
anything could land you in court for odometer fraud

Originally Posted by JG66ME

Lighten up. If its a newish car then it matters. But take this for an example. Someone has an standard XA that shows 36000 miles. How many times has that been around the clock? They put in a GS dash with a 140 mph speedo that shows 24000 miles. Who cares? The original speedo may have gone around once and the new one tree times.

On old cars that need restoring I ignore the milage. New cars I care.

And where does legality come in when you replace the speedo on a 40 year old car?

In regards to the original post, a new motor does not entitle you to zero the miles. But in view of the above, if the car is restored out of bits, how can you tell and does it matter?

100000 mile car full of rust
300000 mile car, mint restored.

[pottery beige]

blaa friggin blaa.. grandpas axe is another o/s bore.. this and that trans n diff rebuilds lost count of converter up and downs..... racked too many k's on odo with the 4.11s..... one carefull owner only driven to church on sundays.... sorry about the ripped seats..... bloody big dogs german shepards were hungry......

[The Outsider]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Is it? Log onto carsales and search used cars less than 100000km and less than $10k, more than every second ad

is it?

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...ywords=&Nne=15

ok so i admit i only checked the first 2 pages of that search but other than the 1978 moke none of the ads even mention anything about a rebuilt engine so how can you continue to make such claims?

did you go through all the 5,557 listings to get your official numbers?

at the end of the day you need to ask the important questions that matter to you before you go look at the car and make your own mind up once you have inspected the car.

at least everyone here will know if you call them as you will be asking if the car has the upmarket headlights or not

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by burnz

the RTA in NSW log all odo's every time you reregister, and yes they will check any desrepecies..very thurough in this respect.

To clarify this. In NSW you have to get a roadworthy every year.
When you do this the speedo/odometer reading is sent to the RTA along with all the other details.

Originally Posted by pottery beige

blaa friggin blaa.. grandpas axe is another o/s bore.. this and that trans n diff rebuilds lost count of converter up and downs..... racked too many k's on odo with the 4.11s..... one carefull owner only driven to church on sundays.... sorry about the ripped seats..... bloody big dogs german shepards were hungry......

Forgotten to take your medication again have you?

[colinl]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

This is what I always do.

It should be what we always try to do, but as much as we don't like to admit it, our judgement will be effected by the way we feel towards the seller. I know if I have a level of trust with the seller, I will then have a greater acceptance of any evidence of car history they might offer me. In a case like this, I might even pay above market value if I have a strong enough feeling of trust in them and their evidence.

Just one other small point. I've been in the industry for a long time. I have no doubts at all that someone can present a car well enough for me to miss some major structural or mechanical problems. Sometimes it is just easier to inspect the owner. Listen to what they say and see if you can pick up anything that sounds like bullsh!t. If they are not truthful with their words, perhaps the car offers a level of deceit too e.g. cheap and nasty engine repairs that work now, but not for much longer, a very well carried out bog job under some nice paint, or even a cut and shut.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Forgotten to take your medication again have you?

wooooooops stay away from computery after rums..................

[blockhead83]

A girl friend of mine was looking for a new car a while ago so I said I'd go looking with her. Went to a second hand car yard and there was about a 10 year old camry with 70K on the clock. The brake and clutch pedasl had no rubber left, the steering wheel was visibly worn and the gear knob was just flopping around on the shaft.

I had a go at the dealer about genuine K's and he swore black and blue that they were.

Even a rebuilt motor wouldn't have made this a 70K car, I'd be pretty ****ed if I'd come out especially to see it.

So I reckon the K's advertised should be the K's on the clock, if you've rebuilt the motor mention that in the ad.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

To clarify this. In NSW you have to get a roadworthy every year.
When you do this the speedo/odometer reading is sent to the RTA along with all the other details.

Not if your car is less than 4(?) years old. Don't recall as I haven't had to do a roadworthy in ~10 years and never had to notify the RTA of my mileage during that time. Potential of winding back the clock in newer cars.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Not if your car is less than 4(?) years old. Don't recall as I haven't had to do a roadworthy in ~10 years and never had to notify the RTA of my mileage during that time. Potential of winding back the clock in newer cars.

not quite, winding back the k's will void warranty..
even if the dealers do this the company will know..

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by burnz

not quite, winding back the k's will void warranty..
even if the dealers do this the company will know..

...and as a buyer, how would you know?

[castellan]

Re built motor. what could that mean, 3 new valves and the motor re painted.

[Jim Goose]

On the flip side 6 or 7 yrs ago i bought an EL wagon from a dealer.
Car had about 180 000 from memory.
While looking at paperwork and glovebox i found out it had rebuilt motor with only 20 000km since rebuild.
The dealer didnt even know and had the orginal engine number on the roadworthy paperwork! Glad to see they had bothered to check it.

The engine still had some warranty left too.

[Revolver]

Absolutely,

But I think it is law that the odometer must represent how many "k's" the main chassis has done, as it's really the only part of the car that cannot be "replaced".

[colinl]

Originally Posted by Rodp

...and as a buyer, how would you know?

I would be surprised if the BCM didn't have a record of it. I haven't played with any scan tools on the newer cars, but on most marine engine management systems I can see how many hours of operation they have, how long they have spent at various throttle openings, how many times and when they have overheated, ect. Mercury even have one fault code titled "abusive over rev".

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Rodp

...and as a buyer, how would you know?

your service book has had a service but now it's being sold second hand that does not correlate with the book??

the dealer cant/won't offer factory warranty, road side assist..
no pink slip?? all second hand vehicle must have a pink slip (age not relavent)

[2011G6E]

A rebuilt motor (and being able to prove it) is a big selling point, despite the uninformed not realising that the rest of the driveline has also done those kilometers.
My '82 Celica is sitting outside up on chassis stands at the moment getting the diff rebuilt. About a year ago I replaced the axle bearings in the diff, and now the center bearings also need replacing. When one set has done X-number of kilometers, everything else has as well...

When we bought a 1979 TE Cortina Rally Pack sedan with around 130,000km on the clock quite a few years ago, it had a Dymo taped number on the top inside right hand corner of the windscreen saying "Engine rebuilt at 120,000km", and it came with all the reciepts from the shop that did the work, and it certainly sold us on the car.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by burnz

your service book has had a service but now it's being sold second hand that does not correlate with the book??

the dealer cant/won't offer factory warranty, road side assist..
no pink slip?? all second hand vehicle must have a pink slip (age not relavent)

Bought a new car last week - no pink slip, also no service history but that's due to it being an ex-chaser.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Bought a new car last week - no pink slip, also no service history but that's due to it being an ex-chaser.

so you got none of the above and still baught the car..