$323 million turnaround has taken Holden back into the black

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

So what? Holden are more committed to Aussie manufacturing than Ford are. If you are a company, your main goal is to make a profit. Sure, Ford will probably make a net profit but if they can identify that they can make an even bigger profit by axing the part(s) of the company that's dragging them down then in the long-term they will.

You did not understand JPD80 comments. You are saying the only reason Ford will post a profit in 2010 is because of imported cars. This is probably not 100% true, because Ford only started to struggle on the local front from about November onwards. Ford's local products were doing very very well in the first half of 2010 with over time required to keep up with demand. (2011 will most like be a different story)

Also, not sure why you figure Holden is more committed to Australia manufacturing than Ford? Please provide me some fact for this statement & I might change my mind!!

And why does the last few sentences of your post not apply to EVERY single company on the plant??

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Also, not sure why you figure Holden is more committed to Australia manufacturing than Ford? Please provide me some fact for this statement & I might change my mind!!

Although you asked Broadyford this question I would like a crack at answering....

Whether we like it or not, Holden has been the more proactive manufacturer in Australia, they are more responsive to market demands and are more willing to take a punt on certain vehicle types, Crewman, Monaro etc. The amount of money spent in Oz by Holden suggests they have a long term future in Oz. Whereas Ford has only comitted to PD having any sort of future........

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Also, not sure why you figure Holden is more committed to Australia manufacturing than Ford? Please provide me some fact for this statement & I might change my mind!!

Simple answer: Holden have committed to Australian manufacturing beyond the VE Commodore which is due to be replaced entirely in 2017.

Ford on the other hand have not committed to anything beyond 2015/16 and refuse to give answers on this when pressed, i.e. they have said nothing about remaining in Australia (or not).

Maybe they are committed but until they tell us plainly and face-to-face I'm more inclined to believe Holden has more of a commitment. There's just too much uncertainty surrounding Ford's future in Australia to think otherwise.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

So what? Holden are more committed to Aussie manufacturing than Ford are. If you are a company, your main goal is to make a profit. Sure, Ford will probably make a net profit but if they can identify that they can make an even bigger profit by axing the part(s) of the company that's dragging them down then in the long-term they will.

Please qualify your statement:

By all accounts their local manufacturing arm should be deep in the red.

Ford have had the plant on 3-day week for months controlling costs and while it's not the best scenario,
we quickly forget how Holden kept two shifts at Elizabeth by cutting wages and work in half.
It is essential for Holden to have production for their Elizabeth plant because they are geared
for two shifts, while we are critical of FoA, they have a much smaller work force and can
get by with less production. Part of "One Ford" is right sizing production to true market need
and in that case, FoA are definitly falling in line with company policy, you will find the result will be quite surprising...

Conversely, the negative result of holden pursuing empty export sales is now quickly forgotten.

Absolutely amazing...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Simple answer: Holden have committed to Australian manufacturing beyond the VE Commodore which is due to be replaced entirely in 2017.

No, what they have committed to is an evolution of Zeta that will run until 2018.

Ford on the other hand have not committed to anything beyond 2015/16 and refuse to give answers on this when pressed, i.e. they have said nothing about remaining in Australia (or not).

Ford have actually delayed the decision on this until early next year to give new Falcon based products
a chance to work in the market. If those are unsuccessful, then we have other alternatives to discuss...

Maybe they are committed but until they tell us plainly and face-to-face I'm more inclined to believe Holden has more of a commitment. There's just too much uncertainty surrounding Ford's future in Australia to think otherwise
You won't get your answer until next year and you won't like... guaranteed.

Depending on who you talk to the outlook is full spectrum, Ford execs don't even know at this time
so everything is speculation. What could happen is that Ford may see Austraila as a
strategic importance and "gift" us a car to keep a high profile, Fords global bottom line is
changinging rapidly and the company will absolutly astound critics this year with the enormous
financial turnaround.
FoA's needs will be chicken feed to a company that's strongly in the black....

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Whether we like it or not, Holden has been the more proactive manufacturer in Australia, they are more responsive to market demands and are more willing to take a punt on certain vehicle types, Crewman, Monaro etc. The amount of money spent in Oz by Holden suggests they have a long term future in Oz. Whereas Ford has only comitted to PD having any sort of future........

Was the Territroy not a punt? Was the RV Ute not a punt, is LILPG not a punt? Don,t see how the Crewman & Monaro are any better than my Ford examples..

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

What did Ford do right 15 years ago to pip the commodore out of 1st place?? Factory taxi packs?

Its key demographic wasn't yet in retirement age

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Although you asked Broadyford this question I would like a crack at answering....

Whether we like it or not, Holden has been the more proactive manufacturer in Australia, they are more responsive to market demands and are more willing to take a punt on certain vehicle types, Crewman, Monaro etc. The amount of money spent in Oz by Holden suggests they have a long term future in Oz. Whereas Ford has only comitted to PD having any sort of future........

Proactive??????

I cant see how you can say Holden is More proactive, than any other business slowly dying a bad death. In 2004 they had revenue of $7.21 Billion in australia. Adjusted for inflation that figure would now be over $8 billion.

In 2004 it sold 175,000 vehicles here, and exported about 52,000 cars.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...539148332.html

The last reports show that for 2010, it only had revenue of $4.4 billion in 2010, on sales of about 130,000 in australia, local production of 60,000 and exports of about 8,000.

Its a carcass of a company that has basically halved in size in 6 years, that should be the first welfare recipient to be shut down, when Joolia starts her crackdown on welfare.

[Gobes32]

I am usually the first critic of Holden on these forums. I find them to be an immoral and poorly managed company. The crewman, monaro, etc, were all failures but yet again Holden come out smelling like roses. At the end of the day, the question was "Why are Holden more comitted to manufacturing than Ford? Here is your answer,

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mor...-1226039113907


Territory was not a punt, it was a shrewd investment into a segment that the late Geoff Polities could see as a potential cash cow. It would probably sadden him to see how it withered on the vine for so long........

[BroadyFord]

Re today's job cuts:

I have been vindicated!!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Re today's job cuts:

I have been vindicated!!

That does not mean anything regarding long term plains!! Granted it is not good, but it does not mean Holden is here to stay & Ford is not!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Re today's job cuts:

I have been vindicated!!

I know you are glad to win an argument but some of us here knew in advance and were
trying to be a little sensitive to members here that are now facing redundancy....

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That does not mean anything regarding long term plains!! Granted it is not good, but it does not mean Holden is here to stay & Ford is not!!

Don't get me wrong; I want Ford to survive but the way things are heading - both internally and externally - I don't think they can.

I've said numerous times that the only thing that can save Ford is exports. However the Australian dollar has all but eroded that prospect, at least for now.

Regarding Holden, let me put it into perspective: Holden axed 2000 jobs in the time leading up to as well as in the GFC. They returned many of those jobs once they were back at full production and in time for the Cruze launch. Aside from the GFC, Holden have been pretty consistent with their workforce numbers.

Ford on the other hand have been in one slow, long drawn-out decline in terms of production and workforce since about 2005. They have axed in excess of 1800 jobs in that time, yet as opposed to Holden, none of them have been reinstated. The 300 that were meant to be created by Focus never happened for reasons we all know and the Geelong I6 plant doesn't count because that's almost certain to go in 2015/16.

Geelong's casting plant was the only facility to have received a decent-sized jobs boost - 50 - in that period.

You can sugar-coat this as much as you want but the fact remains: Ford's manufacturing arm in Australia is in free-fall and will cease to exist unless the government gets on their hands and knees begging for them to remain or throws them a massive cash incentive.

I am seriously starting to question the future of the Falcon even before 2015/16. What's stopping Ford deciding to cancel whatever upcoming programs they have and announcing and end to manufacturing and giving a month's notice to the workers as things are so dire? Mitsubishi did it, why can't they? 240 jobs here, 300 jobs there; it all adds up. Soon you will get to a point where you can go on no longer.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

What did Ford do right 15 years ago to pip the commodore out of 1st place?? Factory taxi packs?

The reasons are not just one single point, one forgotten factor was that the two were actually different in size and the bigger, more powerful yet more economical Falcon had a very complelling case. If Holden didn't down size or struggle with their powertrains/economy who knows.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

I've said numerous times that the only thing that can save Ford is exports. However the Australian dollar has all but eroded that prospect, at least for now.

The only vehicles that possibly make sense in terms of being built in Australia are:
1) next gen Mondeo/Fusion
2) Territory or Explorer
3) T6 SUV in I-4 diesel and possibly V6 diesel (in lieu of I-5 diesel)

Cars like Falcon and Commodore are really dying the death of a thousand cuts,
Ford could put a Falcon sized body on the next Fusion/Mondeo and gain huge
improvements in fuel economy without being tapped out by development costs.
The big hurdle is that Thailand is so cheap to manufacture cars and SUVs....

I am seriously starting to question the future of the Falcon even before 2015/16. What's stopping Ford deciding to cancel whatever upcoming programs they have.

With sales the way they are, why on earth would Ford be even thinking about updates beyond SZ Terry or FG II Falcon?

Big decisions coming....

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The only vehicles that possibly make sense in terms of being built in Australia are:
1) next gen Mondeo/Fusion
2) Territory or Explorer
3) T6 SUV in I-4 diesel and possibly V6 diesel (in lieu of I-5 diesel)

Cars like Falcon and Commodore are really dying the death of a thousand cuts, Ford could put a Falcon sized body on the next Fusion/Mondeo and gain huge improvements in fuel economy without being tapped out by development costs.

The big hurdle is that Thailand is so cheap to manufacture cars and SUVs....

With sales the way they are, why on earth would Ford be even thinking about updates beyond SZ Terry or FG II Falcon?

Big decisions coming....

Hmm the T6 SUV with the Territory's V6 diesel would be an interesting wagon.

The only vehicle I can see being made by Ford after the Falcon and Territory go is a series of cars based on the CD4 platform - so Mondeo or Fusion hatch, wagon, and an SUV based on the CD4 (Edge?). Next gen Mustang and a 4 door derivative would be available here in RHD form for the performance crowd but they'll come from the US...

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The only vehicles that possibly make sense in terms of being built in Australia are:
1) next gen Mondeo/Fusion
2) Territory or Explorer
3) T6 SUV in I-4 diesel and possibly V6 diesel (in lieu of I-5 diesel)

Cars like Falcon and Commodore are really dying the death of a thousand cuts,
Ford could put a Falcon sized body on the next Fusion/Mondeo and gain huge
improvements in fuel economy without being tapped out by development costs.
The big hurdle is that Thailand is so cheap to manufacture cars and SUVs....




With sales the way they are, why on earth would Ford be even thinking about updates beyond SZ Terry or FG II Falcon?

Big decisions coming....

I'd bet if there was something it would be CD4 sedan / wagon and a CD4 based SUV - IF the investment can be justified ...

[bobthebilda]

deleted

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

I'd bet if there was something it would be CD4 sedan / wagon and a CD4 based SUV - IF the investment can be justified ...

Ford goes to Federal Government, give us coin to change to more fuel efficient
vehicle production or we will close on the eve of your re-election campaign.....

Ford and Holden have been at this game for years, they know how to tickle politicians....

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Don't get me wrong; I want Ford to survive but the way things are heading - both internally and externally - I don't think they can.

I've said numerous times that the only thing that can save Ford is exports. However the Australian dollar has all but eroded that prospect, at least for now.

Regarding Holden, let me put it into perspective: Holden axed 2000 jobs in the time leading up to as well as in the GFC. They returned many of those jobs once they were back at full production and in time for the Cruze launch. Aside from the GFC, Holden have been pretty consistent with their workforce numbers.

Ford on the other hand have been in one slow, long drawn-out decline in terms of production and workforce since about 2005. They have axed in excess of 1800 jobs in that time, yet as opposed to Holden, none of them have been reinstated. The 300 that were meant to be created by Focus never happened for reasons we all know and the Geelong I6 plant doesn't count because that's almost certain to go in 2015/16.

Geelong's casting plant was the only facility to have received a decent-sized jobs boost - 50 - in that period.

You can sugar-coat this as much as you want but the fact remains: Ford's manufacturing arm in Australia is in free-fall and will cease to exist unless the government gets on their hands and knees begging for them to remain or throws them a massive cash incentive.

I am seriously starting to question the future of the Falcon even before 2015/16. What's stopping Ford deciding to cancel whatever upcoming programs they have and announcing and end to manufacturing and giving a month's notice to the workers as things are so dire? Mitsubishi did it, why can't they? 240 jobs here, 300 jobs there; it all adds up. Soon you will get to a point where you can go on no longer.

Holden have bought back very few of the 2000 they ditched a few years ago. Their announcement recently that they were re-hiring was something like 50 jobs, not anywhere near 2000. Check their employee numbers now compared to then.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Territory was not a punt, it was a shrewd investment into a segment that the late Geoff Polities could see as a potential cash cow. It would probably sadden him to see how it withered on the vine for so long........

It was a great move seen by higher management. It was them looking into the future and setting the company for success. The next great move was made with the Diesel Terri...GP left then the next 'genius's' came in. Killed a cash cow that would have been awesome during the last 2 years, couldn't decide on a drive line for the large sedan and wasted money that could have been used to update a more niche product or a stable low volume product (Wagon/LPG).

Terri is still dam good since its release. Imagine if they had the current diesel out.

On the other hand Holden brought out the Adventera. Remember that successful model?? lol