which car/model changed the face of performance for aussie cars? - Page 2

FreddyDUZ747 · 02-08-2011, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

So another version of the xr8 as per your story and my comments. It acts to partly close the gap? You call that a win? Does your story support my contention about the ls1 being the game changer?

Don't get me wrong I love the windsor and even own one but its no ls1

The VN SS Group A had a far better 5.7 in factory guise than the VT 5.7 Chev.

The Toyota Supra 2JZ punches well above its weight class as well.

This piece of string is getting rather lengthy.

Donny · 02-08-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Don't get me wrong I love the windsor and even own one but its no ls1

Yeah, but your Windsor isnt a 220 or 250 either, it started as a 175 didnt it? and isnt it in a long wheel based heavy barge for that matter?
Your comparing that to a LS in a base model Executive, which is the lightest of the fleet.. Not really a fair comparo.. Full weight LWB barge vs Normal wheel base bottom line model.

Freddy... The VN Group A SS was a 5 litre Holdun engine, not a LS or Chev and not a stroker 5.7 either. I know, I used to own one.

**DJM83** · 02-08-2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

So another version of the xr8 as per your story and my comments. It acts to partly close the gap? You call that a win? Does your story support my contention about the ls1 being the game changer?

Don't get me wrong I love the windsor and even own one but its no ls1

The 220 Windsor held it's own against the LS1 and the 250kw was arguably better
You own probably one of the most asthmatic Windsors in one of the heaviest bodyshells how can you comment on the old wheezer? Oh that's right probably went to a car yard to 'See how it went' maybe you should go and buy an LS1, seems you have been looking at some reassurance on your ownership of your BOSS, if you like it who cares what anyone else thinks, drive it and enjoy it.

GT0132 · 02-08-2011, 03:38 PM

Definitely the E37 and E49 chargers

galaxy xr8 · 02-08-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

So another version of the xr8 as per your story and my comments. It acts to partly close the gap? You call that a win? Does your story support my contention about the ls1 being the game changer?

Don't get me wrong I love the windsor and even own one but its no ls1

You obviously did not read the article did you,

Your the one that said in your OP that the LS1 was good for mid 14's and no Ford product of the time could match it,

I don't know why you don't go of and buy a LS1 or do you need to ask your mates 1'st and get their opinion

Better still why don't you start a poll on who think's you should buy a LS1 or keep your "mint" XR8

It's clear that you need the aproval of other's to make your decisions and your not capable of making them on your own.

What's for tea tonight Hulk ?? or do you need us to decide that for you to ?.

aussie muscle · 02-08-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

I have a Bathurst DVD that shows a VC Valiant running second after the first lap of the Armstrong 500 in 1966

so did it do it's gearbox or brakes? both were very weak in the VC (my brother owned one for many years, nice cars, but very crude by today's standards).

Falcon SXR8 · 02-08-2011, 04:34 PM

Wouldn't say ls1 they had alot of problems but if it wasnt for them we wouldn't have got the nice 220 xr8s and stroker te50 very nice cars. I would say the turbo 6 from ford was great, not exactly ground breaking rocket science though throw a turbo on anything and it will go hard.

ACEz · 02-08-2011, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

Wouldn't say ls1 they had alot of problems but if it wasnt for them we wouldn't have got the nice 220 xr8s and stroker te50 very nice cars. I would say the turbo 6 from ford was great, not exactly ground breaking rocket science though throw a turbo on anything and it will go hard.

I agree the turbo 6 was a great car and Australian made

.Not like your crate engines.

big_landau · 02-08-2011, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto

just because you wish it, doesnt make it so

i dunno id put my money on the e49 over the 1/4 not the phase 4.

Rodp · 02-08-2011, 05:38 PM

<sniff>

Smells like a thinly veiled dig at the AU thread by the OP.

RAPID_BA · 02-08-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

You obviously did not read the article did you,

Your the one that said in your OP that the LS1 was good for mid 14's and no Ford product of the time could match it,

I don't know why you don't go of and buy a LS1 or do you need to ask your mates 1'st and get their opinion

Better still why don't you start a poll on who think's you should buy a LS1 or keep your "mint" XR8

It's clear that you need the aproval of other's to make your decisions and your not capable of making them on your own.

What's for tea tonight Hulk ?? or do you need us to decide that for you to ?.

I'm not saying the ls1 is unbeatable. I'm saying that it was first to lift the bar of performance, the windsor in its final form was probably a fair rival but that's not the point. If the ls1 didn't come out swinging with 220kw back in 99 against a meek 185kw xr8 and also had mid 14 quarters.

How can you dispute this? The windsor needed 4 cracks at the ls1 to be close to being compeitive (185kw, 200kw, 220kw and 250kw). Then they moved to the boss to take up the fight. The ls1 caused ford to lift their game from 185kw to 260kw is 3 years. Before that ford lifted the windsor from 165kw to 185kw in 8 years. That's a game changer

I'm having garlic prawns in my mint xr8 for dinner, decision made

**Burnout** · 02-08-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_landau

i dunno id put my money on the e49 over the 1/4 not the phase 4.

I disagree mildly, the PH 3 was a cats whisker faster than the E49. I drove both, (the cop optioned ones), with blue lights on top...... fun, fun, fun!

The XR GT was the game changer in those days, without doubt. Most of the blokes on here talking about the ls1, the turbo and such, weren't even thought of & have no idea how much of a stir the car caused around the time of release.
I remember one of the Generals answers to the Ford Falcon GT's was the 307 Chev motor; most of the time the rocker gear was so loose you could here them coming half a mile away.

FreddyDUZ747 · 02-08-2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

Yeah, but your Windsor isnt a 220 or 250 either, it started as a 175 didnt it? and isnt it in a long wheel based heavy barge for that matter?
Your comparing that to a LS in a base model Executive, which is the lightest of the fleet.. Not really a fair comparo.. Full weight LWB barge vs Normal wheel base bottom line model.

Freddy... The VN Group A SS was a 5 litre Holdun engine, not a LS or Chev and not a stroker 5.7 either. I know, I used to own one.

They are a great car and mid 14s back in the day so to speak.

I confused myself with the GTS/R Don,oops.

dredd120 · 02-08-2011, 05:51 PM

I have to agree with alot of people, the LS1 picked up where the "supercar scare" began in the 70's. Of course we are only referring to aussie cars because some jap and euro cars have always been super quick. The BA turbo was really in response to the lack of power from Ford's V8's compared to holdens. Still now Ford always tunes the V8 for more power on paper but since the intro of XR6 the V8 has been lagging, gotta love the I6, but nothing beats the burnout power and sound of a good V8. But if holden taken take that first step we probably wouldn't even have a turbo series ford

302 XC · 02-08-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcxr

Quarter mile figures are not what a performance car is all about.
Handling,braking, etc are more in line with performance than just outright HP
P3 was a pig to drive.

Totally agree with this
But my comment was in reply to the OPs LS1s and 14 sec 1/4s
Yes perhaps the LS1 powered cars were fast ???
But to say how great they are because they can do a long awaited 14 sec 1/4 mile from factory!!!
Ford and chrysler were doin 14 sec 1/4s 40 years ago
No injection either

* The HG 350 monaros were hot on their heels to
Again another 40 year old dinosaur

Handling and performance
An LS1 commo against a cosworth sierra ???

302 XC · 02-08-2011, 05:57 PM

Double post

trippytaka · 02-08-2011, 05:59 PM

XR GT... wasn't it the first Australian sedan to have a V8 in it?

galaxy xr8 · 02-08-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

I'm not saying the ls1 is unbeatable. I'm saying that it was first to lift the bar of performance, the windsor in its final form was probably a fair rival but that's not the point. If the ls1 didn't come out swinging with 220kw back in 99 against a meek 185kw xr8 and also had mid 14 quarters.

How can you dispute this? The windsor needed 4 cracks at the ls1 to be close to being compeitive (185kw, 200kw, 220kw and 250kw). Then they moved to the boss to take up the fight. The ls1 caused ford to lift their game from 185kw to 260kw is 3 years. Before that ford lifted the windsor from 165kw to 185kw in 8 years. That's a game changer

I'm having garlic prawns in my mint xr8 for dinner, decision made

If you honestly believe that the Ls1 was the 1'st to lift the bar then I am lost for word's, you seem to be focusing on this era aswell, the begining of the LS1, that is why I think you like them so much.

When will you get it into your head that what a vehicle is badged at does not represent it's actual performance, do you really think that Ford's windsor model's were not as good as the LS1 because the LS1 was badged as more KW ?. you need to look at a vehicles torque spread and the manner in which it deliver's it's power.
This is what you seem to be saying when you have not even driven a XR8 200/220 or even a T series have you ?.

If you want to know how can I dispute it, well easily, when I bought my AUII XR8 new, my best mate also bought a VTII SS LS1, both stock for stock, there was nothing in it, his was so lazy down low as they were known for, a very larthargic motor.

trippytaka · 02-08-2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Agree 100%, no if's or but's...........

100% correct. There is no debate about it.

Neale · 02-08-2011, 06:31 PM

I recon the first cars in aus to get the ball rolling would have been the FX/FJ holden then the EH/EJ. There were numerous different companies that poped up making hot up parts for them, including twin cam heads wide wheels etc. In the 60's they were the cars to have.

Ford then came along with the Cortina which ened with the GT500 that was the first homoligation special, built purely to win Bathurst (& it did for the third time in a row). It had many hot parts unseen on road cars before like brake scoops twin filler caps & larger fuel tanks, & other go fast bits that helped it beat the Holden EH S4.

You could say these cars brought on the muscle car era because after the Cortina GT500 got banned ford came back with the V8 XR GT & the rest is history

BAGT514 · 02-08-2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippytaka

XR GT... wasn't it the first Australian sedan to have a V8 in it?

No - Chysler/Valiant was the first V8 Australian built V8

My 2c for what they are worth

1. The XR GT - the first of the "Performance bred" Australian cars
2. The XY GT HO - the performance that all other cars are measured by
3. The GTR XU1 - Giant killers
4. The E38/49 Chargers - Outstanding performance and all round cars.

Yes - there have been some great cars since but the benchmark of performance begins with these ones.....

BAGT514 · 02-08-2011, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_landau

i dunno id put my money on the e49 over the 1/4 not the phase 4.

It depended on what diff ratio the Ph3 was optioned with. The higher numerical cars put down great times in their day - the lower numerical ones were the top speed hero's

irish2 · 02-08-2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAGT514

It depended on what diff ratio the Ph3 was optioned with. The higher numerical cars put down great times in their day - the lower numerical ones were the top speed hero's

Add to that the P3's tested by magazines either had a 3.08 or 3.25 diff in them when achieving 14 seconds flat on the 1/4. There were options all the way to 4.11's.

RAPID_BA · 02-08-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

If you honestly believe that the Ls1 was the 1'st to lift the bar then I am lost for word's, you seem to be focusing on this era aswell, the begining of the LS1, that is why I think you like them so much.

When will you get it into your head that what a vehicle is badged at does not represent it's actual performance, do you really think that Ford's windsor model's were not as good as the LS1 because the LS1 was badged as more KW ?. you need to look at a vehicles torque spread and the manner in which it deliver's it's power.
This is what you seem to be saying when you have not even driven a XR8 200/220 or even a T series have you ?.

If you want to know how can I dispute it, well easily, when I bought my AUII XR8 new, my best mate also bought a VTII SS LS1, both stock for stock, there was nothing in it, his was so lazy down low as they were known for, a very larthargic motor.

I've owned 4 Windsor v8s. I love them but I'm a realist. One of the windsors i modded, heads, cam, intake, diff gears, etc etc. I thought it was quick and would dust off a ls1 no probs.

Then I took a vx2 clubbie for a drive and yayayayahehehehoho it was like someone burst a balloon. I was deflated. Then I drove a boss 290 gt and my heart was broken. The top end rush was unheard of. I sold it and bought my first ls1.

The ls1 definately lifted the bar from what we thought went well. It's great as Ford lifted their game and we are where we are, supercharged v8s and turbo 6s.

The new gt is probably the next game changer after ls1

**ebxr8240** · 02-08-2011, 08:05 PM

The cars that would have to seriously considered would have to be the cars
the gov banned !!!
Some on here wasn't even thought of....

**DJM83** · 02-08-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

I've owned 4 Windsor v8s. I love them but I'm a realist. One of the windsors i modded, heads, cam, intake, diff gears, etc etc. I thought it was quick and would dust off a ls1 no probs.

Then I took a vx2 clubbie for a drive and yayayayahehehehoho it was like someone burst a balloon. I was deflated. Then I drove a boss 290 gt and my heart was broken. The top end rush was unheard of. I sold it and bought my first ls1.

The ls1 definately lifted the bar from what we thought went well. It's great as Ford lifted their game and we are where we are, supercharged v8s and turbo 6s.

The new gt is probably the next game changer after ls1

Your telling people what you want them to reply.
I think the XR6T was more of a game changer then LS1, still is although its now the engine not the car.

galaxy xr8 · 02-08-2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

I've owned 4 Windsor v8s. I love them but I'm a realist. One of the windsors i modded, heads, cam, intake, diff gears, etc etc. I thought it was quick and would dust off a ls1 no probs.

Then I took a vx2 clubbie for a drive and yayayayahehehehoho it was like someone burst a balloon. I was deflated. Then I drove a boss 290 gt and my heart was broken. The top end rush was unheard of. I sold it and bought my first ls1.

The ls1 definately lifted the bar from what we thought went well. It's great as Ford lifted their game and we are where we are, supercharged v8s and turbo 6s.

The new gt is probably the next game changer after ls1

Just out of curiosity what where the four powered windsor's that you owned ?.

Donny · 02-08-2011, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Just out of curiosity what where the four powered windsor's that you owned ?.

Wasnt one of them a 250kw Windsor from a T or P250????....
Oh, no thats right, thats the one he bagged out a whole series of (aka the AU) and said he'd driven one an later admitted he had never had one or driven one..

mrghia · 02-08-2011, 08:49 PM

How aussie was the 4WD TX3 turbo i know the motor and that was Mazda but i thought ford designed the body. I though they were pretty awesome (still do really) and they were bloody quick

RAPID_BA · 02-08-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Just out of curiosity what where the four powered windsor's that you owned ?.

Pm sent about windsors ive owned.

The point im trying to make isnt to attack windsors, its to say what model/car lifted the performance bar for aussie cars. I suggested ls1s and you immediately jump into a windsor defensive formation, snarl, show your canine teeth? The windsors are good, dont get upset