What do FPV's have over HSV's?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Spammy

What do FPV annual sales figure look like compared to HSV?

Something similar to HSVs sales figures compared to Great Wall.....

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by flappist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spammy
What do FPV annual sales figure look like compared to HSV?
Something similar to HSVs sales figures compared to Great Wall.....

what's up with flappist?
Comparing HSV and FPV makes sense, since they both aim at the same demographic (appeal to the same market of people with similar income and similar tastes and requirements). Doing so gives a good idea of how well they are doing.
GW is aimed at a completely different demographic so its not really relevant, and neither is your post.

[Chopped]

FPV owners have 2.7 times the amount of sex compared to HSV owners*.

* Any figures shown may be fictional.

[psychoticgroove]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

what's up with flappist?
Comparing HSV and FPV makes sense, since they both aim at the same demographic (appeal to the same market of people with similar income and similar tastes and requirements). Doing so gives a good idea of how well they are doing.
GW is aimed at a completely different demographic so its not really relevant, and neither is your post.

I think Flappist was alluding just to the numbers.

In terms of sheer number of cars sold, FPV are that much behind HSV (say 300 against 900) as HSV is behind Great Wall (say 900 against 2700). Basically 3 times the no. of sales.

He just put it in his predictable sarcastic humour style...

[gtfpv]

my 2c. FPV'S now have a reverse trend that went to HSV some years ago .
FPV's are now faster in every increment .
aside from that , not much .

[TheSneakiness]

A sticker that states rwkw, not fwkw?

FYI just in case fwkw = fly wheel kilowatts.

[DJM83]

Why compare HSV sales to FPV, aren't HSV's in the same league as the euro's
For me it's the badge and that amazing donk.

[anto]

Originally Posted by dkpioe

why are you comparing a new fpv to a 1999 VT?

from tests i have seen, the gt335 doesnt have anything over a latest hsv. neck and neck in most test, maybe a few extra kilowatts for the falcon (at maximum revs - but inconsistent with each tested ford, some have less the 335).

at maximum power the cars are neck and neck in most tests, yet the holden has a more desirable image to most people(unless you are a die-die-diehard ford fan - of which there are less and less these days because people have realised their are better and more desirable cars)

why would people prefer a 'superchared v8' over a highly efficient v8 that doesnt need forced induction that weighs the same or less, gives the same or less fuel economy, has a proven record or reliability and gives similar power outputs and is in a more stylish, more desirable to the public - car?

Holden has been such a winner in the v8 war in australia for so long because the chev v8 is so great! it is amazing how little is weighs for the engine capacity it has. the 6.2 litre engine weighs less then a 6 cyl bmw engine half its capacity from the 90s and has twice as much power and heaps more torque and all useable so low in the rev range. and similar fuel economy!
the ford probably has that too, but they are so late to the plate, after using the 5.4l motor for far too long . which had a heavy image to it, search it on youtube and all you find is pickup trucks, a lot of people in australia saw it for what it was, as an agricultural engine - built primarily for farmers pickup trucks. That was Fords fault, and they spent far too many years before replacing it.


The new Fords 335 engine, the public doesnt really know if it is better or worse or if the fuel economy is better or worse, or if it has heaps of torque like the more known holden chev engines, because for one reason - FORD ARE TERRIBLE AT PROMOTION. they really are ****, they are their own worst nightmare, they are behind the eightball in everything.
-the supercharged v8
-the ecolpi-
-the diesel territory
-the 4 cyl falcon
all WAY WAY TOO LATE!
none of which will make any significant sales for ford australia, and at no time do the majority public realise if they are released. has the 4 cyl falcon been released yet? i dont know, i heard it should have been by now, but i havent seen anywhere in any media if it has.

with the new v8, instead of giving any real engine comparisons to holdens chev motors, all the public was given in australia for 2 years was 2 codewords "coyote" and "supercharged". coyote means nothing to anyone, and supercharged has the same conotation for aussie car buyers as turbocharged - meaning it will have less engine capacity, and aussie performance drivers are similar to Americans, they want CUBES - so the wile e. coyote was doomed for bad sales in australia versus a "CHEV" which links the american redneck culture to the aussie bogan culture. both have the mentality of more engine cubes is better.

I believe Ford sales would have gone up if they released a light all alloy fast revving 6.5litre falcon or FPV. this coyote crap is doomed as is everything else lately for ford australia, they do not know what sells, and they do not know how to sell it.

HSV has it all over FPV in the tupperware department, if thats not important then the GT is what you want.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

A sticker that states rwkw, not fwkw?

that's Gold !!

[onfire]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

How is the number sold deciding what is more special?

Exclusivity.

Which drives the value of an object.

Lets say, instead of building 10,000 cars - FPV build 1000. Well, that makes said vehicle a lot more desirable now doesn't it.

And with those numbers, you could probably put an extra $20,000 on the RRP.

[BadMax]

Originally Posted by onfire

Exclusivity.

Which drives the value of an object.

Lets say, instead of building 10,000 cars - FPV build 1000. Well, that makes said vehicle a lot more desirable now doesn't it.

And with those numbers, you could probably put an extra $20,000 on the RRP.

FPV could produce loads more, it's just that no one wants them or sales would be much higher.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by onfire

Exclusivity.

.

Lets say, instead of building 10,000 cars - FPV build 1000. Well, that makes said vehicle a lot more desirable now doesn't it.

I suppose it would make them more desirable. Especially when FPV go belly up because they aren't going to survive making just 1000 cars are they? Unless they price them something like a lambo or a ferrari I suppose?

Do you suggest they make 1000 cars of one particular model and then create a new model with similar characteristics but a new name, to protect the exclusivity?

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by onfire

Exclusivity.

Which drives the value of an object.

Lets say, instead of building 10,000 cars - FPV build 1000. Well, that makes said vehicle a lot more desirable now doesn't it.

And with those numbers, you could probably put an extra $20,000 on the RRP.

It makes them unpopular is what it makes them. Everytime I see an FPV ad in the paper is highlighting the massive discounts available on the FPV range.

They are good cars but for a load of complex reasons they just don't have the brand value that HSV has established.

[P6LTD351]

If they stayed with the Tickford name, they'd have a similar brand value to HSV.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by onfire

Exclusivity.

Which drives the value of an object.

Lets say, instead of building 10,000 cars - FPV build 1000. Well, that makes said vehicle a lot more desirable now doesn't it.

And with those numbers, you could probably put an extra $20,000 on the RRP.

Not if they are crap ...... wouldn't matter if they made 2 of em. People complain that enough isn't sold, others complain they are all too common and see them everyday. I didn't buy it for exclusivity. There are way more cars for the price that I could have bought for that.

On another note ...... can't understand why all the bitterness about FPV. Remember reading so many threads a couple of years ago pre S/C, people wanting a ball tearer, to wipe the smile of HSV. They got one, and now there are so many whinges. Most have no intentions of buying one and would hazzard a guess that many haven't even sat in one, let alone been a passenger, let alone driven one.

It is a Ford forum after all and find some of the comments misguided, naive, boarding on insulting to those that have bought, enjoying and love their cars ..... after all .... that's why we are here on a FORD FORUM discussing what we enjoy. Not listening the absolute ramblings of those that would be more comfortable playing in the LS1 Forums where they can whinge and complain to their little hearts desire. Say these things on their Forums about HSV and see how far you get. I wouldn't for one as I respect what other people have bought and also their passion to a brand.

We have been more than patient here letting people have their opinion ..... no matter how much of it is tripe or insulting. Some people on these Forums need to remind themselves where they are and who they are talking to before bagging out ....... everyone is entitled to an opinion but more care needs to taken where and how this opinion is stated.

Have owned every model since the 70's and going from an AU to BA to FG they just keep improving and I for one wouldn't expect to go from BA to AMGC63 over night on a company that is running (profitably mind you) with minimal resources in a very minimal local market.

Price wise ...... have no problems with the GT .... power wise .... no probs .... no heated seats ..... no probs ..... suspension .... no probs ..... interior ..... no probs ..... bang for buck .... absolutely no probs. Could they improve a few things? Of course but as far as the beloved HSV go? I do not like (Ford Forum, can say that) they are slower, do not like the seats nor interior, are slower, look way to Autobarn spec, are slower and generally am not impressed by the brand ......... HENCE why I parted with my money for one, HENCE why I am on a bloody a FORD Forum. To enjoy what I have and discuss accordingly. NOT to come here everyday and read rubbish from those that have absolutely no interest in anything Ford. Branding yourself an "Auto enthusiast" doesn't give anyone the right to then crap on what others enjoy and neither does starting a sentence with IMHO.

Take your gripes and whinges else where cos I and many others here are absolutey sick of it

[XR6Naranja]

Well I'll direct this firstly at Ausland..

My question was more based on a WIDE variety of things, but it has mainly come down to the engine specs.

But was very interesting, for my life which definitely hasn't been as long and eventful as yours I had a Dad that was for Holden and two brothers that were for Ford, so following suit with the role models I went Ford, but I was looking at some Holden specs and Ford and just can't see why Ford doesn't keep up in every department, I asked the question to see if anyone had experience, I've only ever owned the one car and driven the one car for more then a day.

But basically I can see that most here don't like the looks of HSV, but I'm sort of on the fence, I don't mind the looks of some of the newer HSV's, I've always said, I'd own a HSV, if it was given to me, but I'd never buy one.

But to put it into a comparative, I'll take what I think to be one of FPV's TOP models in terms of money spent on it and major thought and work put into it.

FG F6
And the Holdens TOP (I think)
E3 Clubsport R8

They both have the same sort of stuff, but FPV is at the moment providing better speed, better torque.

But there is so much in a HSV that can easily draw you to one as a person who isn't say an enthusiast or knows all that much about an engine, It may be technology wise through the whole car or the layout, but I dunno something tells me FPV has gone POWER, while HSV has gone for a BALANCE, it'd be nice that FPV now balances their already quick cars with the rest of the the accessories.

[jimmyxr6t04]

Originally Posted by TheOrangeSpider

Well I'll direct this firstly at Ausland..

My question was more based on a WIDE variety of things, but it has mainly come down to the engine specs.

But was very interesting, for my life which definitely hasn't been as long and eventful as yours I had a Dad that was for Holden and two brothers that were for Ford, so following suit with the role models I went Ford, but I was looking at some Holden specs and Ford and just can't see why Ford doesn't keep up in every department, I asked the question to see if anyone had experience, I've only ever owned the one car and driven the one car for more then a day.

But basically I can see that most here don't like the looks of HSV, but I'm sort of on the fence, I don't mind the looks of some of the newer HSV's, I've always said, I'd own a HSV, if it was given to me, but I'd never buy one.

But to put it into a comparative, I'll take what I think to be one of FPV's TOP models in terms of money spent on it and major thought and work put into it.

FG F6
And the Holdens TOP (I think)
E3 Clubsport R8

They both have the same sort of stuff, but FPV is at the moment providing better speed, better torque.

But there is so much in a HSV that can easily draw you to one as a person who isn't say an enthusiast or knows all that much about an engine, It may be technology wise through the whole car or the layout, but I dunno something tells me FPV has gone POWER, while HSV has gone for a BALANCE, it'd be nice that FPV now balances their already quick cars with the rest of the the accessories.

I tend to agree with this. I was recently in the position to buy a GT 335 or GS. The cost of GT, even a second hand one was hard to justify. Through my novated lease, i was still up for about 7k up front to drive a used GT. I couldn't justify spending 7k of my cash up front right now (doing house renovations). So that left me with the GS. I was having a hard time justifying to the wife a 50k+ car that is almost like an XR... I could see the value, but she couldn't.

I wanted the GS, but in the end for similar money i got a slightly used fully loaded series II Holden CapriceV... Whilst i would have been happy with the GS, the wife preferred the Caprice. To be honest, after driving the Caprice, i started to lean towards it too. Packed with features from the factory, it had everything on the GS, apart from the power.

I understand that the Caprice and GS are completely different types of cars, but this is an example of how a non enthusiast (the wife), perceives cars and how a non enthusiasts judgement can be swayed. Infact, even though i was dead set keen on the GS, i've totally fell in love with the Caprice. I never thought i would say it, but i guess outright power isn't as important to me as it used to be. I also have a soft spot for LWB cars.

I guess a change is as good as a holiday, i'd been in a modified XR6T, modified turbo terry, and a BF Fairlane G8 since 2004 till now.

In two years time when this lease is up, i'll see what the new GT brings to the table.

[XR6Naranja]

Nothing like a good story to back my theory.

I just sometimes think FPV and Ford is run by a bunch of monkeys who only appeal to the very minimum population, and the future isn't too bright for them either...

Anyone can modify their car to go faster, but these other things, they cost a LOT to put in your car, if you go aftermarket, it requires more work to modify the current body/interior.

Personally I'll be going over seas for my cars, looking at the Corvette's and GT-R R35's, the cars that are around the same amount new, but are offering everything these won't, maybe even a Lexus..

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by TheOrangeSpider

Nothing like a good story to back my theory.

I just sometimes think FPV and Ford is run by a bunch of monkeys who only appeal to the very minimum population, and the future isn't too bright for them either...

Anyone can modify their car to go faster, but these other things, they cost a LOT to put in your car, if you go aftermarket, it requires more work to modify the current body/interior.

Personally I'll be going over seas for my cars, looking at the Corvette's and GT-R R35's, the cars that are around the same amount new, but are offering everything these won't, maybe even a Lexus..

so this thread was nothing more than a collective whinge / bag session about the local product........

personally.. just on the quiet.. are you sure your wallet is fat enough.. i doubt it........

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by dkpioe

having not owned either badge, i have to say the answer to the forum thread is NOTHING. Going by magazine articles, HSV have it all over ford in style and marketability. peak power numbers are similar, so which one you buy depends on if you are a brand-slut and only go for ford or holden, or if you go for the more attractive product=holden. FPV are its own worst nightmare offering a turbo 6 and a v8. if you have a turbo 6, why bother with a v8? its just stupid, it apeases about 2000 buyers a year who need a v8 just for the sound. Ford could develop the turbo 6 into a real weapon, but ford in the last decade in Australia have become idiots who are happy to see their sale dwindle every year.

FPV and HSV exist to service the needs of a very select audience prepared to pay serious money,
it's obvious that the vehicles you want to see developed are not in that price range, so not relevant to this topic.

[pottery beige]

the majority of experts around here.. have not sat in.. driven.. or never afford the product they love bagging so much.....

[BLU-DVL]

All I know is everytime I sit in my GT.. and the rear gets a bit squirrily even with very modest amounts of throttle input.. I wear a huge! grin from ear to ear.. worth every penny I paid for my GT!

I like the sedate look of the GT.. not some riced* up commodore with lots of bolt ons..

[vanman_75]

It's a ford ...that's all I need , no fn way will there ever be a holdenin my driveway .no I'm not stupid but yes I'm brand bias ! I wouldn't even look at holden its the whole image thing that bores me to tears .friend with maloo in driveway yesterday ..I just can't rate em . And have you forgotten this is a ford forum with ford bias ....hope you enjoy your holden ...but I just don't care sorry

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by TheOrangeSpider

Nothing like a good story to back my theory.

I just sometimes think FPV and Ford is run by a bunch of monkeys who only appeal to the very minimum population, and the future isn't too bright for them either...

Anyone can modify their car to go faster, but these other things, they cost a LOT to put in your car, if you go aftermarket, it requires more work to modify the current body/interior.

Personally I'll be going over seas for my cars, looking at the Corvette's and GT-R R35's, the cars that are around the same amount new, but are offering everything these won't, maybe even a Lexus..

When you buy your Corvette you can then go to your nearest Corvette forum and bag the crap out of them there as I KNOW you will have lots to talk about. Proves a bit that you really have little idea on what the competition offer. Corvette ..... Dear me!

And just one other thing to finish. Both HSV & FPV DO appeal and market to the smaller population. People need to get a grip on reality!

[Uwish]

FPV sell no where near the HSV numbers.
The two are direct competitors, not euro both Aussie performance cars.

So for me HSV has good looks ( well E1 all models and E3 senator only after that. )
Interior; HSV is above and beyond the FPV.
Wheels = hsv
suspension= hsv

But I do like the clean lines of the current FPV range and as I always chase power.........A new GT wins for me currently.

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

so this thread was nothing more than a collective whinge / bag session about the local product........

personally.. just on the quiet.. are you sure your wallet is fat enough.. i doubt it........

Not necessarily, more of getting a point of view, clearly there are multiple points of views.

Money is not an issue for me, restriction at this current time is.

Originally Posted by jpd80

FPV and HSV exist to service the needs of a very select audience prepared to pay serious money,
it's obvious that the vehicles you want to see developed are not in that price range, so not relevant to this topic.

Problem here is I'm comparing what HSV has in other divisions rather then power, that FPV doesn't, so it obviously is in that price range.

Originally Posted by BLU-DVL

All I know is everytime I sit in my GT.. and the rear gets a bit squirrily even with very modest amounts of throttle input.. I wear a huge! grin from ear to ear.. worth every penny I paid for my GT!

I like the sedate look of the GT.. not some riced* up commodore with lots of bolt ons..

And mate that's fair enough, the point is was to see ALL perspectives, but obviously it's come down to people who don't like Ford and people who want to fight for them like a soldier until the cows come home...

Originally Posted by vanman_75

It's a ford ...that's all I need , no fn way will there ever be a holdenin my driveway .no I'm not stupid but yes I'm brand bias ! I wouldn't even look at holden its the whole image thing that bores me to tears .friend with maloo in driveway yesterday ..I just can't rate em . And have you forgotten this is a ford forum with ford bias ....hope you enjoy your holden ...but I just don't care sorry

Obviously a Ford forum is going to be biased, but I've grown not to care for a brand, when bang for your buck can come into that figure, so this is why I brang up this topic, of course it was going to pull the heart strings of die hard fans, I support Ford, I bought Ford, I'd just like to see what others have to say, I intend to buy Ford in the future, unless they bring out these rumour'd 4 Cylinder Turbo's replacing the 6 Cylinders.

Originally Posted by Auslandau

When you buy your Corvette you can then go to your nearest Corvette forum and bag the crap out of them there as I KNOW you will have lots to talk about. Proves a bit that you really have little idea on what the competition offer. Corvette ..... Dear me!

And just one other thing to finish. Both HSV & FPV DO appeal and market to the smaller population. People need to get a grip on reality!

They were simple comparisons, the next thing is that Corvette is a decent example, new FG F6 is what 70-80,000. Same price is a Corvette, obviously buying a Corvette has other implications, such as parts, What I'm trying to get at is the quality produced in them in all aspects rather then one, I chucked Lexus in there for those who wanted to throw out "But it's not a Sedan"

Sure I haven't driven the latest Corvette, but have driven an older one to like the feel of the car.

I have bought Ford, and likely continue to buy Ford, I simply stated that I may have to buy elsewhere if Ford doesn't take their finger out, the topic was to get peoples views, general public, GT owners, GTS owners, Maloo owners, and everyone in between, not this "Ford Brand is the best, why say otherwise" or visa versa with Holden, being unbiased is perfectly fine, some people seem to be incapable though.

Those who want to perceive this topic as anything else are fine to do so, but stabbing me for what you thought this topic was is ignorant.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by TheOrangeSpider

Money is not an issue for me, restriction at this current time is.

yea sure...

[Auslandau]

They were simple comparisons, the next thing is that Corvette is a decent example, new FG F6 is what 70-80,000. Same price is a Corvette,

Um ..... F6 FG drive away new $59,000. Same as corvette price??? I would suggest you go and find out the cost of these. Also take into consideration the conversation from lh to rh and then will see how many F6's you could have in your garage. Bit of research goes along way

Don't care why you started this thread but only letting it Continue because it is entertaining in a weird sort of way

[Chopped]

And in twenty years time, we will all get excited when we see the current FPVs or HSVs on display at some classic car show, and think "Hell yeah, those were the days / they don't make'em like that anymore"

Then we will drive home in some 0.8L hybrid electric bio-diesel 3 wheel scooter avoiding the carbon tolls where we can........

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

If they stayed with the Tickford name, they'd have a similar brand value to HSV.

I doubt it.