Hooning Fact Sheet from QUT Brings Car Club Cruising into Disrepute

[jpd80]

Pickle me grandmother, somebody should blow up Uni students....

[ZC-Cruiser]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I know other people that have had similar, and also ex-coppers I work with confirm that if they think you are driving "too fast for the conditions" you don't even have to be speeding...as long as it's considered "dangerous" at the time.

This attitude makes sense when you consider that in fatal accidents where "speed was a factor", less than 5% of the vehicles were exceeding the posted limit.

[EVLKNEVL]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Well mate better get used to it, because that's the only thing that's going to protect you from hoon laws. And yes it gets said alot, but that's because it's the truth. Look I love taking of from a set of light fast or putting the foot down when ever possible. But the laws have changed and so do I, otherwise it could be my XBGT coupe getting crushed. We all have to face facts, these laws are here to stay.

I, like most reasonable people here, aim to avoid the hoon legislation by driving sensibly on public roads.

I will not, however, cease to scrutinize unjust laws. I can't see how having a defeatist attitude will protect me from anything, in fact I believe it would make me more exposed. Feel free to 'get used to it' if that works for you, it does not work for me.

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by EVLKNEVL

I, like most reasonable people here, aim to avoid the hoon legislation by driving sensibly on public roads.

I will not, however, cease to scrutinize unjust laws. I can't see how having a defeatist attitude will protect me from anything, in fact I believe it would make me more exposed. Feel free to 'get used to it' if that works for you, it does not work for me.

Cool mate keep fighting for what's right, my problem is they're crushing cars. So it's a given I'm going to behave myself, and I know people can dob you in and the cops come and hassel you. But unless they have cold hard evident any lawyer would get you off,if it got that far. So again I'll say don't break the law and you should be right.

But I know where you're coming from 20 years ago the cops used always pull me up in the hardtop. But now I don't get pulled up for no reason anymore, so not much has change just they crush cars now. I'd probably get pulled up alot if I drove a newer modified car, as that's what they seem to target these days. But it used to be me and my mates in monaros,toranas, XY/W/A/B's getting ran over the pits on a number of occasions.

[The Monty]

Cant see what the problem is with what was said? It says cruising is not hooning, it is sometimes participated in by people who also participate in hooning. And they are 100% correct on that. I dont think I have ever been on a cruise, and I have been part of many, including ones which I have organised, where no-one has done a burnout, slid around a corner, or sped massively over the speed limit. And most of the times its not the young guys either.

And seeing that hooning has come up again, and its interpretation, I believe that maybe the people complaining about the actual legislation and interpretations of hooning direct themselves to the relevant information sources and read it properly so that you have an informed view before you open your mouths (or fingers on the keyboard) and make yourself look silly.


The offences which renders a member of the QPS able to impound a vehicle are as follows:
328A Dangerous operation of a vehicle
(1) A person who operates, or in any way interferes with the
operation of, a vehicle dangerously in any place commits a
misdemeanour.
Maximum penalty—200 penalty units or 3 years
imprisonment.
Definitions in relation to this offence:
(6) In this section—
excessively speeding means driving or operating a vehicle at a
speed more than 40km/h over the speed limit applying to the
driver under the Transport Operations (Road Use
Management) Act 1995.
operates, or in any way interferes with the operation of, a
vehicle dangerously means operate, or in any way interfere
with the operation of, a vehicle at a speed or in a way that is
dangerous to the public, having regard to all the
circumstances, including—
(a) the nature, condition and use of the place; and
(b) the nature and condition of the vehicle; and
(c) the number of persons, vehicles or other objects that are,
or might reasonably be expected to be, in the place; and
the public includes passengers in a vehicle whether in a public
or private place.
unlawful race means a race involving a vehicle in
contravention of the Transport Operations (Road Use
Management) Act 1995, section 85.
unlawful speed trial mean a trial of the speed of a vehicle in
contravention of the Transport Operations (Road Use
Management) Act 1995, section 85.

83 Careless driving of motor vehicles
Any person who drives a motor vehicle on a road or elsewhere
without due care and attention or without reasonable
consideration for other persons using the road or place is
guilty of an offence.
Maximum penalty—40 penalty units or 6 months
imprisonment.

85 Racing and speed trials on roads
(1) Any person who organises or promotes or takes part in—
(a) any race between vehicles or animals on a road; or
(b) any attempt to establish or break any vehicle or animal
speed record on a road; or
(c) any trial of the speed of a vehicle or animal on a road; or
(d) any competitive trial designed to test the skill of any
vehicle driver or the reliability or mechanical condition
of any vehicle on any road where a prize or trophy or
other benefit or advantage in excess of the value of $100
may be won by a competitor;
is guilty of an offence, unless the prior permission in writing
of the commissioner to the holding or making of the race,
attempt, or trial has been obtained.
Maximum penalty—40 penalty units or 6 months
imprisonment.
(2) The commissioner has power to grant or refuse permits under
this section.
(3) The commissioner may in any such permit impose any
conditions the commissioner deems necessary in the interests
of public safety or convenience.
(4) Any such permit or conditions may be of general or limited
application.
(5) If any person organising, promoting, or taking part in any
such race, attempt, or trial contravenes or fails to comply with
any condition imposed as aforesaid, that person is guilty of an
offence.
Maximum penalty—40 penalty units or 6 months
imprisonment.
(6) If the court convicts a person of an offence against subsection
(1), the court, in addition to imposing a penalty, must
disqualify the person from holding or obtaining a Queensland
driver licence for a period of at least 6 months.

291 Making unnecessary noise or smoke
(1) A person must not—
(a) start a vehicle, or drive a vehicle, in a way that makes
unnecessary noise or smoke; or
(b) wilfully start a vehicle, or drive a vehicle, in a way that
makes unnecessary noise or smoke.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.
Example for paragraph (a)—
driving a vehicle in a way that causes noise or smoke because of—
(a) disrepair of the vehicle; or
(b) the way the vehicle is loaded; or
(c) the condition, construction or adjustment of the vehicle’s engine
or other equipment
Example for paragraph (b)—
driving a vehicle in a way that causes noise or smoke by wilfully and
unnecessarily causing the wheels of the vehicle to lose traction and spin
on the road surface
Note—
An offence against paragraph (b) is an offence mentioned in the Police
Powers and Responsibilities Act 2000, section 69A(1)(d).

So to make it even easier for the people reading, I will word it like this:

If you dont:
Dangerously operate a motor vehicle (as stated)
Speed by more than 40km/h
Drive an overly unroadworthy car
Overload your car
Involve yourself in a race
Drive a vehicle carelessly (as outlined)
Engage in a race or speed trial, or
Start or drive a vehicle that makes unnecessary noise or smoke


All taken from the TO(RUM)Act, TO(RUM-RR) Regulations, and the PPRA, and also Criminal Code.

[ZC-Cruiser]

Originally Posted by The Monty

All taken from the TO(RUM)Act, TO(RUM-RR) Regulations, and the PPRA, and also Criminal Code.

TO(RUM)Act:
TRANSPORT OPERATIONS (ROAD USE MANAGEMENT) ACT 1995

Do you have links to the other legislations you quote?

[Sprint]

Its caled segregation, first they single you out(be it a group)

then the new laws start and your now a criminal.


the problem isnt the laws ,its the machine that claims its a goverment.

the chinese have a saying.

winning the castle is the first way
winning through domination is the worst way
winning the hearts is the best way

They will target nice cars , because they assume you have money.It wont matter what you are doing.

[DJM83]

On my recent interstate trip i seen 2 HWP cars following each other both doing at least 140kph. Is this hooning

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by DJM83

On my recent interstate trip i seen 2 HWP cars following each other both doing at least 140kph. Is this hooning

Only if they had their coppers hat on backward, doof doof playing and seated in the coffin position. Weren't driving Commo's were they?

[ZC-Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Sprint

Its caled segregation, first they single you out(be it a group)

then the new laws start and your now a criminal.

This is why I want to get that meaningless paragraph about cruising removed from this Fact Sheet...

Has anyone emailed that letter to the authors yet?

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Only if they had their coppers hat on backward, doof doof playing and seated in the coffin position. Weren't driving Commo's were they?

One in an SS, one in a GT.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DJM83

One in an SS, one in a GT.

Street racing obviously.....

[AWD Chaser]

"Unnecessary speed or acceleration"

Officer: Do you know why I pulled you over?

Driver: No...

Officer: What time do you start work?

Driver: 8am

Officer: It's only 7am... So you didn't have to be doing 59 in a 60 zone... I would call that "Unnecessary Speed"....

Driver: WTF?!

Officer: Attitude Test Fail... Oh, also, I noticed you were going under the speed limit - HOON!!!!!

[TC200six]

Oh dear, I didn't realise I hooned down the Warrego highway last weekend. Shame on me for doing that.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

I do have issue with the "slow cruising" which isnt hooning, but is hooning...

i guess they figure that sometimes the 'hoons' might have a 'go slow' protest (purposefully going slow, but not a sanctioned cruise). they do this to disrupt traffic and thumb the police.

"You can't arrest us because we're going the speed limit" kinda thing.

[MAD]

Lumping hooning with cruising is akin to assuming all males traveling on planes are paedophiles.

[ZC-Cruiser]

Originally Posted by MAD

Lumping hooning with cruising is akin to assuming all males traveling on planes are paedophiles.

Lets see if the logic works:

“Traveling on planes” - where groups of people sit in an aircraft to travel quickly between places is a behaviour that can be associated with paedophiles. While traveling on planes, in and of itself, is not a paedophile behaviour per se, it is a behaviour sometimes engaged in by those people who engage in the paedophile behaviours described. However, many people who engage in traveling on planes behaviour do not engage in the paedophile behaviours listed at left.

Yep - seems to work just fine...

[2011G6E]

(6) In this section—
excessively speeding means driving or operating a vehicle at a
speed more than 40km/h over the speed limit applying to the
driver under the Transport Operations (Road Use
Management) Act 1995.
operates, or in any way interferes with the operation of, a
vehicle dangerously means operate, or in any way interfere
with the operation of, a vehicle at a speed or in a way that is
dangerous to the public, having regard to all the
circumstances, including—
(a) the nature, condition and use of the place; and
(b) the nature and condition of the vehicle; and
(c) the number of persons, vehicles or other objects that are,
or might reasonably be expected to be, in the place; and
the public includes passengers in a vehicle whether in a public
or private place.

So to make it even easier for the people reading, I will word it like this:

If you dont:
Dangerously operate a motor vehicle (as stated)
Speed by more than 40km/h
Drive an overly unroadworthy car
Overload your car
Involve yourself in a race
Drive a vehicle carelessly (as outlined)
Engage in a race or speed trial, or
Start or drive a vehicle that makes unnecessary noise or smoke

See, there's your error right there...
The legislation does indeed say "excessively speeding means driving or operating a vehicle at a
speed more than 40km/h over the speed limit applying to the
driver under the Transport Operations (Road Use
Management) Act 1995."
However, it then goes on to further say "operates, or in any way interferes with the operation of, a
vehicle dangerously means operate, or in any way interfere
with the operation of, a vehicle at a speed or in a way that is
dangerous to the public, having regard to all the
circumstances, including—
(a) the nature, condition and use of the place; and
(b) the nature and condition of the vehicle; and
(c) the number of persons, vehicles or other objects that are,
or might reasonably be expected to be, in the place; and
the public includes passengers in a vehicle whether in a public
or private place."

That right there means that if the speed you are doing is considered "dangerous to the public", it doesn't necessarily have to be over the limit of the area. You could be driving at a speed in conditions ("having regard to all the circumstances") in a place where the officer judges that it is "excessive for the conditions", and you're in the poo.

Please don't tell us that this won't be "interpreted" as seen fit at the time by the roadside by individual officers on any given day. Well all know it will, and now they have the teeth to impound your vehicle for a long time until you prove you were innocent somehow, just to teach you a lesson.

[XBROO]

Ok just a question, who here has actually been done for hoon laws ( had your car impounded or worst crushed) for doing nothing just cruising down the road? Because I haven't met anybody that's been done for no reason. I know heaps that have been hasselled but not done.

[Sprint]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i guess they figure that sometimes the 'hoons' might have a 'go slow' protest (purposefully going slow, but not a sanctioned cruise). they do this to disrupt traffic and thumb the police.

"You can't arrest us because we're going the speed limit" kinda thing.

the issue is not about speed, it has always been illegal to do less than 20kms from the posted speed limit, but its one of those laws that does not get enforced unless its a problem.

It is illegal to drive too slow.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Sprint

the issue is not about speed, it has always been illegal to do less than 20kms from the posted speed limit, but its one of those laws that does not get enforced unless its a problem.

It is illegal to drive too slow.

Oh, this is a new one to me. Where (in any states road rules) does it say that?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Oh, this is a new one to me. Where (in any states road rules) does it say that?

Snopes Traffic Act 1/4/2012........

[Riksta]

Originally Posted by AWD Chaser

lol

VNs are Horn.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Oh, this is a new one to me. Where (in any states road rules) does it say that?

I do believe that causing an obstruction on the road is an offence... will have to look it up to find it.... so going slow on a freeway for instance, double parking etc.....never heard a law that gives an actual figure of "20kmh" under.

[jmack]

by there reckoning you better watch yourself at the next funeral u go to as well,this country has quickly gone to the dogs,road rules are made so that the bumbest of drivers can drive safely and instead of raising the standard of driving all it is doing is bring it down to the bumbest

[Oxa384]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Ok just a question, who here has actually been done for hoon laws ( had your car impounded or worst crushed) for doing nothing just cruising down the road? Because I haven't met anybody that's been done for no reason. I know heaps that have been hasselled but not done.

i see where your coming from roo ,back when i was driving my coupe around on my p plates and also when i first got my full licence i was forever getting pulled up defected locked up etc.but when i look back on it now there was a bloody good reason for it i was been reckless and stupid.these days ive mellowed alot and still enjoy a spirited drive (dont we all) here or there but im not at the point of being stupid or dangerous.i guess its a shows if you do behave yourself you have nothing to be worried about.it has worked for me so far

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Ok just a question, who here has actually been done for hoon laws ( had your car impounded or worst crushed) for doing nothing just cruising down the road? Because I haven't met anybody that's been done for no reason. I know heaps that have been hasselled but not done.

...and when there are laws set in place that allow them to do something more substantial than a bit of "hasselling"...? It's easy to hassle someone if you know that when push comes to shove, you haven't got the legal might to back it up...but once they have laws set in place that let them confiscate cars a lot more easily, then they will be used.

[ZC-Cruiser]

And we have a result

Hi Les,

Thank you for your email regarding our “State of the Road” fact sheet on hooning.

To avoid further misinterpretation by members of the public, and in particular car enthusiast groups, of the information regarding the reference to cruising in our factsheet, CARRS-Q has decided to remove the two references to this behaviour from the factsheet. The issue is that a number of car enthusiast groups are adopting a much narrower definition of cruising (i.e., club and charity drives) than what exists in the literature (e.g., also including unorganised laps of localised areas to show-off vehicles).

CARRS-Q does not claim that all individuals who engage in cruising are hoons, and indeed this was explicitly stated in the factsheet “many drivers who engage in cruising behaviour do not engage in the hooning behaviours listed at left”. As such, this sentence was intended to prevent law-abiding car enthusiasts (who engage in well-organised and legitimate club and charity drives) from being associated with “hoons”, which we know to be a common misconception.

Nor has it ever been the intention of CARRS-Q to present the information for the purpose of influencing anti-hooning legislation to include cruising behaviours. Obviously, as a road safety research centre, our focus is on illegal and high-risk driving behaviours and we hope that common sense would suggest that cruising will not, and should not, be a behaviour outlawed under anti-hooning legislation.

To address one specific aspect of your email - the difference between cruising and the other behaviours you mention (e.g., driving to work, driving to the shops, visiting family) is that virtually all drivers do the behaviours you suggest – but not all drivers cruise. Therefore, the reverse logic does not suit and the behaviours cannot be appropriately substituted into the sentence.

The aim of CARRS-Q’s research in this area is to explore the factors and behaviours associated with hooning, in order to identify ways to improve road safety. Given that the references to cruising have been misinterpreted and have served to detract from the more important information contained within the factsheet, we believe it is appropriate to remove these references to avoid further misinterpretations and ensure the focus remains on the pertinent issues.

Kind regards,

David Soole | Senior Research Officer

[MAD]

Good result!

[Bossxr8]

The word hoon is just being so grossly overused these days. I was reading the paper today and the headline was "world's slowest hoon", a story about a guy who was chased by police at speeds not even exceeding 30kph.

How that does that make him a hoon if he never exceeded 30 kph.

You're doing it wrong.