February 2013 Sales Figures - Shock as Nissan bumps Holden

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Rudd did have a SYII Turbo Ghia in QLD... not sure if he still has it.

I think that would have been a Australian Federal Police vehicle, the turbo isn't available to parliamentarians.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think that would have been a Australian Federal Police vehicle, the turbo isn't available to parliamentarians.

Maybe it was his private vehicle, they use to take it to church.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Rudd did have a SYII Turbo Ghia in QLD... not sure if he still has it.

As for the prime ministers car is that special? double glazed glass etc? I'm surprised it still keeps going with the age / kms it would have done now.

No, the PM's car is the full armour plated version. As is (or at least was) the Victorian Premiers. Only tell tale is the size of the black band around the windows is much thicker. The gov has about 1/2 doz of these, a mix of Caprice and Berlina. All with full security spec, including special tyres and hp upgrades. Well muffled of course.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Brazen

And Rudd has a Prius. Abbott drives a LPG Falcon.

Julia probably sees them both as expendable.

[turbodewd]

Rudd has a Prius?! No wonder the ALP kicked the talented, but arrogant, chap from office.

[Ducati888]

I've been thinking about the plight of the Falcon and Commodore and want opinions on the following.

When Falcon was in its heyday of the EF/EL models, they were the biggest selling car on the market. There are certain market parameters we need to ignore so we can compare apples to apples. In 1995, we had a weak dollar, less imports, import tarrifs, and we were coming out of the ingrained "Holden or Ford" kind of two horse race Australia had been in for thirty years.

Now, it is said that people are steering away from large 'gas guzzlers'. That may be true, but I did a quick check on size and dimensions of the EL Falcon (a large car in its day) compared to the latest Mazda 6 (a mid sized car in 2013), and also the current Mondeo.

EL Falcon GLi: Length 4906, Width 1453, Wheelbase 2791, kerb weight 1536kg.

Mazda 6: Length 4865, Width 1840, Wheelbase 2830, Kerb weight 1620kg.

Mondeo: Length 4778, width 1886, wheelbase 2850, kerb weight 1527kg.

The Mazda is 40mm shorter, 400mm wider, has a longer wheelbase and is 90kg heavier. The Mondeo is shorter than the EL Falcon, but bigger in every other dimension.

So, based on this rudimentary analysis, I conclude that people are driving the same sized car they always did, it's just that large cars got too ridiculously large. People stayed where they were. If the Falcon were Mondeo sized it would sell better. If the Commodore went back to the mid size they were with the VB-VL (large in their day, but probably Cruze size now), they would no doubt be more competitive too.

So, people haven't moved, the cars have (ignoring also the penchant for AWDs and Soft Roaders these days as well. Understandable how bad the roads are now. You need a 4WD just to drive to work). Discuss.

[Smoke Pursuit]

EF Falcon was 1861 wide... Don't know where you got that figure from.

[Pepscobra]

All the additional safety features and crumple zones that Manufacturers need to squeeze into a car these days, while still trying to maintain the same interior dimensions, means that cars are getting larger externally.

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

EF Falcon was 1861 wide... Don't know where you got that figure from.

Quite correct Dash GT -in error it seems I quoted the height not the width.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Look at their range. Other than Triton, that they are giving away, there isn't much there.

You would think Lancer could at least pull close to 1000 sales. Plus add in Outlander, Mirage and Pajero. We sold about 10 Mirages at our dealer in the last week.

[greenfoam]

Partly the cause I guess, very few people need monstrous sized battle tanks like the VE and FG anymore. No many have single car families with 3 kids these days. The fuel consumption of a near 2 ton sedan is just too far gone also, physics just don't agree with it and weight makes all aspects of a car worse..

In the old days they used to say the EH Holden was the perfectly sized sedan. The dimensions of the VB-VL were basically the same inside. I still think a sedan of that size is perfect. Park next to a VE in any other Commodore and you feel like the bob barker next to the nisshin maru.. The things are absurdly large.

I'm sure Holden and Ford were well aware these cars are too large many many years ago, probably very early in the VEs development, I guess they just hoped the trend would change... It didn't. And they both have cars that drive like bulk oil tankers. And burn about that much fuel while doing it.

Originally Posted by Ducati888

I've been thinking about the plight of the Falcon and Commodore and want opinions on the following.

When Falcon was in its heyday of the EF/EL models, they were the biggest selling car on the market. There are certain market parameters we need to ignore so we can compare apples to apples. In 1995, we had a weak dollar, less imports, import tarrifs, and we were coming out of the ingrained "Holden or Ford" kind of two horse race Australia had been in for thirty years.

Now, it is said that people are steering away from large 'gas guzzlers'. That may be true, but I did a quick check on size and dimensions of the EL Falcon (a large car in its day) compared to the latest Mazda 6 (a mid sized car in 2013), and also the current Mondeo.

EL Falcon GLi: Length 4906, Width 1453, Wheelbase 2791, kerb weight 1536kg.

Mazda 6: Length 4865, Width 1840, Wheelbase 2830, Kerb weight 1620kg.

Mondeo: Length 4778, width 1886, wheelbase 2850, kerb weight 1527kg.

The Mazda is 40mm shorter, 400mm wider, has a longer wheelbase and is 90kg heavier. The Mondeo is shorter than the EL Falcon, but bigger in every other dimension.

So, based on this rudimentary analysis, I conclude that people are driving the same sized car they always did, it's just that large cars got too ridiculously large. People stayed where they were. If the Falcon were Mondeo sized it would sell better. If the Commodore went back to the mid size they were with the VB-VL (large in their day, but probably Cruze size now), they would no doubt be more competitive too.

So, people haven't moved, the cars have (ignoring also the penchant for AWDs and Soft Roaders these days as well. Understandable how bad the roads are now. You need a 4WD just to drive to work). Discuss.

[b0son]

blame SUVs/softroaders. a large sedan has basically been made redundant by a similarly large 4wd that can (a) carry more, and (b) go places the sedan cant... not that most owners use them for either.

[Ducati888]

Yes it's the massive decline in fleet sales as well as the SUV's making a the impact, but I still think the cars are too big. If they had stayed at the size they originally were, I suspect they may have fared better. The EL sold about 9,000 per month from memory (approx 90K per annum). It was the size people wanted and weighed 1.5 tonnes. The Mazda 6, Honda Euro and Mondeo are all that size but are considered medium, not large, in 2013. People who towed big boats and caravans with EL Falcs probably wouldn't consider it with any of the three cars I just named, even though power and torque figures (and GVM) are as good as or better than the EL. Perceptions.

The mid sized cars now are about the same size, are heavier than an EL was, and do quite well for themselves sales wise, though it seems nothing can stop the small car juggernaut. The Mazda 3 and Corolla do pretty well. A sign of the times for urban living, traffic jams and smaller families maybe.

I wonder how the Laser would have fared if it had remained modern and sold alongside the Mazda 3.

[Nikked]

So...Holden has a had a massive slide, i wonder if this is just due to the commodore? Intersting point is that they only just achived 1000 more sales then Ford...when according to some people, Ford don't advertise enough of offer enough choices.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Yes it's the massive decline in fleet sales as well as the SUV's making a the impact, but I still think the cars are too big. If they had stayed at the size they originally were, I suspect they may have fared better. The EL sold about 9,000 per month from memory (approx 90K per annum). It was the size people wanted and weighed 1.5 tonnes. The Mazda 6, Honda Euro and Mondeo are all that size but are considered medium, not large, in 2013. People who towed big boats and caravans with EL Falcs probably wouldn't consider it with any of the three cars I just named, even though power and torque figures (and GVM) are as good as or better than the EL. Perceptions.

The mid sized cars now are about the same size, are heavier than an EL was, and do quite well for themselves sales wise, though it seems nothing can stop the small car juggernaut. The Mazda 3 and Corolla do pretty well. A sign of the times for urban living, traffic jams and smaller families maybe.

I wonder how the Laser would have fared if it had remained modern and sold alongside the Mazda 3.

What do you mean the Laser? We have the Focus which is much superior over the Mazda 3, but let down by pricing and availability. Mazda 3 now comes standard with alloys, a big hit with most people today (when will manufacturers learn hubcaps are so 1990?). If Focus was price pointed the same as 3 (say the Trend for 19990 in manual) and you could actually get stock then I think the Focus would trump the Mazda. If it couldn't it would be based on upon those poor perceptions people have of Ford, especially with respect to customer service!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So...Holden has a had a massive slide, i wonder if this is just due to the commodore? Intersting point is that they only just achived 1000 more sales then Ford...when according to some people, Ford don't advertise enough of offer enough choices.

Holden's got a few issues... VF will sink VE sales for the next few months, they wont be building many VE's now because they are starting to build test pilot VF's for employees. Cruze has also had some changes with a new motor and wagon variant so no doubt the factory has had some interruptions thanks to this.

Holden have a pretty poor line up if you think about it. The Captiva is dated and old now, only sold on price point alone, the Commodore is in runout mode waiting for its update, Cruze is now a few years old and also in runout mode, they have no "mid" size car (e.g. Epica). The Colorado is not as big of a hit as they had hoped (due to its looks and cheap interior). The Barina is still classed as a death trap by many. So really it will be interesting to see where Holden goes over the next 12 months. I can see Ford overtaking Holden if Ranger and Focus supply is kept up!

Maybe all those cheap Daewoo based cars will really hurt Holden. It was going to happen, but we all knew it would take time.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Really??

More like they forgot to register hundreds of dealer demos to artifically bump the numbers.

[blackf6]

Holden owners would hate to admit it that most of their line up is Daewoo. The Colorado is a joke and looks particularly bad in my opinion. Maybe the reason Holden is sliding, some of the brainwashed are starting to realize Australia's own is not so.. Ford has done quite well for the month I thought.

[buggerlugs]

Never thought I'd see the day that the Ranger outsold the commodore.............

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by teak81

Holden owners would hate to admit it that most of their line up is Daewoo.

Some of our more uncharitable brethren would suggest that the VF now resembles a Daewoo..

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by Brazen

And Rudd has a Prius. Abbott drives a LPG Falcon.

That poor Falcon. Speaking of pollies, does anyone know why Gillard still has a WK/L Caprice? Is it just armoured with special material? or does she have an ***-groove thing going on like Homer Simpson and his couch?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

That poor Falcon. Speaking of pollies, does anyone know why Gillard still has a WK/L Caprice? Is it just armoured with special material? or does she have an ***-groove thing going on like Homer Simpson and his couch?

Yeah its armoured and cost a couple of hundred thousand, which is probably why theres no rush to replace it. Probably got bugger all kms on it too.

[usernametaken]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

it is a pity more australians don't support australian built

I just bought a new XR6 LE ute

Doin' my bit

[turbodewd]

Ford and Holden fans should do a deal. We buy the Cruze if they buy the Terri.

The Focus and Captiva arent made/assembled here.

Put Australia first I say.

[greenfoam]

Sounds good in theory but would you buy a cruise over a focus... I know I wouldn't. Even then I prefer the Fiesta, little smaller but hundreds of kilos lighter and that makes my day more fun, still fits a pram and baby seat

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Sounds good in theory but would you buy a cruise over a focus... I know I wouldn't. Even then I prefer the Fiesta, little smaller but hundreds of kilos lighter and that makes my day more fun, still fits a pram and baby seat

I wouldn't! And I looked at both of them in January!

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Ford and Holden fans should do a deal. We buy the Cruze if they buy the Terri.

The Focus and Captiva arent made/assembled here.

Put Australia first I say.

Not a chance, Focus is miles ahead of Cruze. There is a long line of other small cars before I go the Cruze.

[Pepscobra]

The Hyundai Veloster has really caught my eye at the moment, what a cool car!
Great value too... makes you wonder how mediocre cars like the Cruze actually find homes...?

[Brazen]

Instead of the worlds longest election campaign, wouldn't it be great if the Government and opposition actually fully reviewed Australian vehicle manufacturing and looked at everything?

Tariffs, FBT, GST, incentives, government sales, depreciation concessions, R&D grants, Austrade missions etc?

There hasn't been a holistic look at car making in years.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

The Hyundai Veloster has really caught my eye at the moment, what a cool car!
Great value too... makes you wonder how mediocre cars like the Cruze actually find homes...?

Cruze is probably a better car than a Veloster, especially the 1.4 turbo