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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
View Poll Results: What would you do? Multiple choices allowed. | |||
Take a leaf out of Mitsubishi/Nissan books and become an importer only. | 13 | 8.61% | |
Retain the Falcon platform for as long as possible and do whatever refreshes the budget allows. | 84 | 55.63% | |
Find a replacement for Falcon/Territory in the global portfolio. | 53 | 35.10% | |
Something else. | 25 | 16.56% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll |
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05-03-2013, 10:21 AM | #31 | ||
From the Futura
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 572
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I'd release the new Mondeo as the Fusion, stress its global origins and technology and try to make it a competitive core product. Bring in a hybrid version for the fleets.
Import the Mustang, even if that means banging on a lot of doors in dearborn. Push Ranger and smaller SUV, as well as the small cars seem to be doing okay. Produce FPV stripe and engine versions. Produce the Falcon and Territory as Heritage models. Just one G6 spec model, and vast option lists, made to order, no new investment and sell them until the engines run out. Territory can linger on with tech upgrades until replaced by a Ranger wagon. Try to design/build a local niche car... a AWD fusion coupe (capri) as an FT-86 competitor as the new hero car. Basically, modernise and liven up the image of Ford a bit (lots of colours, stripes and exciting option lists)... so buying a Ford is fun.
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05-03-2013, 10:44 AM | #32 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
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Not what I would like to do , but being cold and calculating(guesswork)
not knowing the actual costings, but taking a punt, I,d say it,s an uphill battle to keep the local cars running and competive as the US bean counters it would appear don't want to fork out significant $$$$ to non US arms for plant work/upgrade and local product funding as they have their own balance to look after, and as Australia is a business headache, I think I would close local operations, import everything, wear a bit of bad stigma for a while closing down plants and jobs, build it in asia , then import, import, import. |
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05-03-2013, 10:54 AM | #33 | ||
Blue blooded Ford guy!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 321
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Either offer a budget entry level FPV, around 40 grand or bring back XR8 at the same price point. Make XR6 the base model Falcon. The XT just looks so plain and completely uninspiring, no wonder it won't sell. Let's face it, people want a great looking car at any price.
And get a new wheel designer at Ford, someone who understands how much diameter, dish, tyre profile and suspension height has on the appearance and thus APPEAL of a car! The XT looks terrible on those ugly little wheels. Mike
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09 FG G6E Turbo Ego grey, Cashmere leather, factory 19" wheels, Monroe GT/King SSLs, stock Barra, still goes hard... 94 EF Fairmont Ghia 5.0- XR8 in a tuxedo... Bordeaux purple, Tickford kit, 2.5+ inch drop, EL Ghia chrome, leather, Pioneer sound, C&C, electric everything, 18" BA XR8's, ABS, LSD, GT40P's, Crane cam, ChipTorque ECU, XR8 snorkel, lots of woodgrain, chrome and interior lights. |
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05-03-2013, 11:16 AM | #34 | |||
I.B.S is a pain in d'***
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Coast NSW
Posts: 1,431
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So, if we are to assume that they will be forced out of production due to this, i cant see a problem with maintaining this current platform for the next decade as long as on specs/performance it keeps matching the competition. Let Ford Aus save/cut cost on development by salvaging as much tech/engineering from the global parts bin and only build saleable models. That way its bugger all to keep the constant restyle coming, and also allows the development of some "out there" vehicles at very little development. Here is an idea: yesterday at the dealership, the sun hit my eye and i started squinting at the front end of the current territory. It kind of looks like that image of the FU falcon that Ford announced at the motor show, everyone said it looked either Mustang or Mondeo. To me i got no problens if the Falcon has the front of the Territory grafted on. Of course, not so big on the bumpers, but lights and grill being the same would sure as hell save heaps of money. The Territory realy is the Falcon Wagon anyway, so i dont see the problem on the Territory being the (taller) wagon of the Falco . I think the current Territory front end has a better chance of being made aggressive (sports models) and also stylish (luxury) models better than the current Falcon.
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I DONT BELIEVE IN NOS.............but if its given to you free at the hospital well then Last edited by Thunder; 05-03-2013 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Spelling! |
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05-03-2013, 11:38 AM | #35 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wollongong
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the current falcon is a good car and the buyers don't seem to care about technology if that was the case they would buy a mondeo, they want the size and the name. I buy falcons (second hand) because they are reliable and cheap to fix and there is a huge enthusiest following, probably because they are RWD and aussie
keep the current platform for another 10 years and update the looks and maybe sell them with 1 or 2 models (XR/G6) with a huge option list and make them on demand. update the model name more often so people think they are getting a new car not just a mark 2 of the old model bring on the US models too as fully imported and include the mustang
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05-03-2013, 11:53 AM | #36 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Whether ford keeps falcon or not, it'll be painful.
You do know they made the Falcon in the USA until 1970? (not that it makes any difference)
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05-03-2013, 12:10 PM | #37 | ||
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05-03-2013, 12:39 PM | #38 | ||
I.B.S is a pain in d'***
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Coast NSW
Posts: 1,431
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The American Falcon died off into obscurity not long after it was developed there.......and was layed to rest in places like mexico.
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05-03-2013, 12:43 PM | #39 | ||
Long live the Falcon GT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,630
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Wow - this is great - and demands quite a long winded explanation from me which will no doubt have errors in logic.... But - that is why it is a Hypothetical.
1) Kill the Mondeo in Australia. It is the middle piece between the Focus and the Falcon - which I believe may be detrimental to both. Without the Mondeo - it forces those who need the space into the Falcon, and it forces those to need the small/med convenience into a Focus. Sure - it forces them to consider other brands and cars (like the Camry, the Cruze, or the Mazda 6, etc) But with my new Marketing/Sales campaign (See #X) proving that the Falcon is as versatile, as modern, but better than all others on the market, that shouldn't create too many headaches. 2) Locally produce the Focus. Now that the Mondeo is gone and the demand for Small cars is so big - my pen-pushers will find a financially viable way of making this work. (Using VFACTS Feb 2013 - nearly 20,000 small cars were sold in Feb, which is the same as the combined total for Light, Medium, and Large Cars) Need to focus (pardon the pun) on securing some turnover and some sales figures from the Small Car Segment - to ensure there is funding to invest in other projects 3) Invest Funding into V8SC Racing Team. Factory backing a Race Team shows passion and confidence in your brand, in your product, and in your customers. Sure - the Race Sunday / Buy Monday mantra is gone, but I would think that from the investment in the Falcon based race cars, you would see a return in a more loyal buying group who have grown up with a passion for performance 4-door Sedans - NOT sports cars. Probably not priority #3, but because it is fresh in my mind (because the racing was on over the weekend - which is exactly my point to investing in the V8SC to help build positive brand awareness and recognition) I've put it at #3 4) Develop a Large SUV for the Australian Market. Think Landcruiser / Patrol. Once a family outgrows a Ford Territory - where do they go within the Ford Brand? I would look into the development for a Large SUV based on something between the The Everest, The Expedition, The Excursion, The Explorer, and the F-Series range, to make a Large flexible 7-8 seat SUV. Perhaps a proper 4x4/off road version, and a 'soccer mum' version. (VFACTS for Feb 2013 says that nearly 10,000 LARGE SUV were sold in the Month of Feb - more than the Medium and Large car segment combined). 5) Develop the FPV Brand further. We've had a few disappointing cars from FPV in the way of sales (not quality - to all those owners out there with their blades and flames ready for me). I'd think that a Locally Produced FPV Focus would need to be considered (Based on the ST), as well as a RH/D Mustang to be produced under the FPV brand. I'd delete the GS - leaving the door open for #6. 6) Bring back the XR8. Sure - it probably won't sell heaps - but the bits and pieces are already here, and essentially left over after the deletion of the GS. But I feel it is a necessary option to have in the lineup. 7) Export locally made cars. So - the Americans want to sell the Fusion at home. I get that. So lets go elsewhere. Territory and Falcon to the UAE, Focus (locally assembled) to be the hub for Focus sales Globally (outside of inner Europe - because then they'll have a major issue). 8) Ranger to tackle the Hilux to be king of the Commercial Vehicle Sector. Simple. Make it the best. 9) Invest in a locally based Production Touring Car series - based on the Focus. Think TOCA Touring Cars. Push Holden to race Cruze, as well as introduce Madza, Nissan, and anyone else who has a similar 'sporty' Small/Medium vehicle. It would tour with V8 Supercars as a secondary series (not the feature) and would have at least 2 x stand alone events away from the V8 SC (IE: when they travel overseas). Think of the British Touring Car Scene - but with a Local feel. 10) Take a holiday.
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05-03-2013, 01:01 PM | #41 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
Last edited by Smoke Pursuit; 05-03-2013 at 01:20 PM. |
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05-03-2013, 01:40 PM | #42 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 223
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Ford will do what the market dictates, end of story That is also what I want them to do as it is the only way to remain competitive. You can influence markets but you cannot control them when you're just another player.
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05-03-2013, 02:06 PM | #43 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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A few ideas.
1) a new beginning Rebadge the Ecoboost Falcon as Mondeo/Cortina/Giraffe/JellyBean/whatever and sell it directly AGAINST Falcon. The "JellyBean" would need to be visually slightly different to the Falcon but the core systems would be the same. This is exacly what Toyota do with the Aurion and Camry and while they are exactly the same size with theonly technical difference being the engine, Aurion is a large car and Camry is a medium car. In one swoop any "Falcon is too old/big/uneconomic/uncool" negativity is defeated. 2) a fleetmobile Withdraw all Falcon and G series from government fleets and make a dedicate "fleetmobile" that is specifically designed for the purpose. The Police fleetmobile set with hard points, remote locking/opening doors, dedicated mounting points for all the gizmos, redesigned seating etc. set up for "bat belts", extra cooling for long times at idle and extra fuel capacity for longer range. The "public servant" fleetmobile with small economic engine, comfortable cloth seats, built in satnav tracking with back to base capability. The Taxi fleetmobile with dedicated LPG, heavy duty drive train, built in satnav tracking, hardpoints for driver protection devices and completely water proof interior that can be hosed out. To make this work the Governments would have to be involved and although it would save money and help the car industry some public servants believe they deserve luxury at tax payers expense. The fleetmobiles cannot be registered for private use and would be used in their primary role for their designed lifespan e.g. 250,000km or 10 years except for taxis which may be 500,000km or 5 years. The fleet operators must buy fleetmobiles except for special purposes e.g. in the case of Police, HP, dog squad or remote etc. This would potentially give us an export market to various similar groups in other countries. 3) a joint venture Other parts of the world are in a similar situation to us. How about, for example, the Euro factory also makes falcons and the primary enginaring is shared. e.g. (and this is just a hypothetical so don't arc up if part of it is not possible for some reason) the I6 and SC V8 are built here and exported in boxes to Europe. The chassis and electronics are built in Europe and exported here. Panels and plastics are made in both places to suit local market and final assemply is done at the local site. Nett result is that more engines will be built lowering costs. Australia does not need to worry about the electronic widgets and lets "ze chermans" sort it. As the chassis is shared it will also cost less to build. So we end up with to completely different identical model ranges that cost less to make, employ more people and increase the market. The car market is echoed in the phone market. Once phones were for making calls and NOKIA was the industry leader. BMWs etc actually had built in Nokia cradles that directly connected the phone to their ICC. Then the smartphone revolution hit and NOKIA rather foolishly thought they would set the trend and others would follow. Apple did not agree but thought similarly that they were the center of the universe. Google made android and let anyone play with it and Samsung saw an opportunity. Right now there are a few rabid Nokia supporters and a lot of rabid Apple supporters but android have allowed Samsun to take the lead and a plethora of others to follow in their wake. In the same way Ford and Falcon must evolve and seek out new markets or they will become history instead of making it. |
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05-03-2013, 04:14 PM | #44 | |||
Adapt or perish...
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dip!@#$
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Just taking Russells post and quoting from there...
Quote:
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05-03-2013, 05:25 PM | #45 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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The only real solution is to convince Detroit to revive Global RWD, develop all the different versions here and adapt it for Falcon and Territory.
Its the only way Falcon has a chance to last beyond 2016/17/18 or whenever it will be. |
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05-03-2013, 05:32 PM | #46 | |||
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Back when FG was released Ford gave certain markets the finger, maybe its time to try and take them back. Its not hard because they still build a very reliable product. |
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05-03-2013, 05:52 PM | #47 | |||
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The "new" car is a medium sized 4 cylinder Australain made family vehicle not one of those petrol eating eco unfriendly Falcons....... If you don't think rebadging works compare the number of Daewoos sold before and after the Holden badge was attached. Or maybe the market share of LG compared to Goldstar. There was a thread recently about the "social standing" of a Mercedes badge on a bubble car. Market perception has nothing to do with reality. As a side note, how does anyone think the Territory would have gone if it was the named the "Falcon AWD Wagon"...... |
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05-03-2013, 07:03 PM | #48 | |||
I.B.S is a pain in d'***
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05-03-2013, 07:22 PM | #49 | |||
335 - STILL THE BOSS ...
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05-03-2013, 07:55 PM | #50 | ||
Guess Who's Back?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,369
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Boss has it, Falcon needs to become part of the One Ford plan to survive. Giving the platform minimal updates which mean it has less freatures and specifications compared to cheaper imports are never going to lift sales. It's a lame duck in the current environment.
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05-03-2013, 07:59 PM | #51 | ||
I.B.S is a pain in d'***
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Just a quick side question, but: Can Detroit stop Ford Australia to export into other countries outside the USA? Or dictate/control it?
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I DONT BELIEVE IN NOS.............but if its given to you free at the hospital well then |
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05-03-2013, 08:35 PM | #52 | |||
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It can handle rutted dirt roads, give a comfortable ride on long trips, handle the odd gutter or pothole and is cheap to get tyres for when the time comes. All pluses for a fleet car. |
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05-03-2013, 08:36 PM | #53 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Stop it? Ford US can close Ford Australia down if they want. They own the company. Ford Australia have the odd win, but the bottom line is Ford says jump and Ford Australia says how high?
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05-03-2013, 08:56 PM | #54 | ||
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No car can survive today without global sales of at least 100K PA.
No exports. No Falcon as is or likely any variation.
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05-03-2013, 11:15 PM | #55 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
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05-03-2013, 11:48 PM | #56 | ||
Donating Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,142
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- Give the territory a larger selection of options (everything from colour to engine variety)
- Locally produce the Ranger - Cull the Mondeo, create a business case to bring the Fusion range here. - Have only the GT, F6 & Mustang in the FPV range & promote greater options variety. - As hard as it is to say, cull the I6. The Falcon/Terri may all of a sudden become more viable in the eyes of Detroit if we dropped their V6 in them instead. - Focus/Fiesta are fine as is, just address supply issues. - The Kuga will always have a tough time trying to penetrate its market here. The best it can do is be competitive in value. |
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06-03-2013, 01:18 AM | #57 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ipswich QLD
Posts: 4,697
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push falcon up
expand territory portfolio(local engines tho) go for global morphing with falcon and any available tech or partsas soon as available. Leading to possible new large global car badged as falcon here. Focus good vans good Ranger...same as terri.......EXPAND portfolio |
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06-03-2013, 07:59 AM | #58 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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If I worked on the production line, I would silently thank the memory of Geoff Polites for getting Territory approved. its the difference between having and not having a job the next morning.
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06-03-2013, 10:19 AM | #59 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I would continue with Falcon & Territory, however with a much simpler line up. If I look at Falcon (ignore FPV for now), there is currently 4 different engines (EB4, I6 Gas, I6 petrol & I6 Turbo) & 6 different model trims (XT, XR6, XR6T, G6, G6E & G6ET) in a brand that only sells 1,000 cars each month.
Falcon Just 3 engines 1) Current EB4 2) V6 Diesel (built here to replace I6 manufacturing) 3) Current GS V8 Just 2 model trims 1) Sports: Called XR 2) Luxury: Called Titanium All 3 engines available in all model trims & all available in Manual & Auto Leave FPV with GT only & current GT V8 Territory 3 engines 1) EB4 (same as Falcon engine) 2) V6 Diesel (same as Falcon Engine) 3) GS V8 (same as Falcon Engine) 3 model trims 1) Base: Called XT 2) Sports: Called XR 3) Luxury: Called Titanium All 3 engines available in all model trims, RWD/AWD & all available in Manual & Auto This plan simplifies the Falcon line up, puts more range into Territory. This leaves Falcon to move up market & put more volume into Territory & uses pretty much everything we currently have. Of Course everything needs the 2014 tech update. |
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06-03-2013, 11:11 AM | #60 | ||
I.B.S is a pain in d'***
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Central Coast NSW
Posts: 1,431
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This i understand, but what i meant was, does the U.S dictate which cars we can/cant import? Like, were we forced to take the Fiesta, Focus, Modeo, Kuga etc or did Ford Australia seek these imports without the worry or care of Ford U.S! Could we supply other RHD (assuming its of benefit) without the U.S inteferring?
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