Ford production to fall to 80 cars a day

[fte50]

Well said - certainly more tools than Falcons. Car Industry experts that earn their money cutting grass for a living.

[GREGL]

Spoken like a true unionist . So now management is smart , perhaps if they were able to get rid of the " deadwood " years ago they might have been in a better position before it got to this point . All bye and bye now of course .

[fte50]

.... get a life.
Perhaps they needed to employee more hero's like ur self to undermine Australia's working conditions and forego public holidays, penalty rates, rdo's, sick leave etc. Oh but hang on, yes I know, the right wing tossas actually enjoy and relish what the left has achieved.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by fte50

Um what a load of crap....

.

Sorry you don't believe it sport but it happened and still happens, just cause you chose not to believe it does not make it so....

Have Ford Aus said "if you don't stay until closing time you wont receive any benefits" ???? NO THEY DIDN'T! they said (which is admirable) the time frame is to assist those affected to get themselves organised.....!

Also how do you keep the best from pulling up stumps and moving on to greener pastures, is there some secret deal that you know about that the rest don't???

I am sorry that you are incapable of understanding the situation, but with this recent news the uncertainty of an individuals future just gets increasingly cloudy, and those with any smarts about them will be doing what they can to clear it up....

From another thread...

Another 300 jobs will be cut at Ford’s Victorian manufacturing plants, as the company continues to reduce its Australian operations.

Ford employees and union representatives were told on Thursday morning that production levels at Broadmeadows and Geelong would be trimmed by about one-third by June.

The move will trigger another round of job losses between May and the end of the year.

"We briefed them on the fact that as we continue to transform our business in Australia that we will continue to match production with demand," Ford spokesman Wes Sherwood said.

The Australian Manufacturing Workers Union fears Ford will need to undertake forced redundancies to cut 300 jobs.

National vehicle division secretary Dave Smith said most factory workers had intended to see out Ford’s 2016 closure.

“Ford will struggle to find the numbers on a voluntary basis,” he said.

Pat Caruso, 39, said many of his workmates had already begun looking for new jobs.

"I hope there's something out there," he said. "But we have to keep our eyes and ears open ... and just see how we go."

Alex Nicdao said he had hoped to hang onto his job until 2016, but now felt left in limbo.

If he is laid off, he fears falling behind on his mortgage repayments and ending up deep in debt.

"We didn't expect this to happen so soon. I'll have to talk this over with my wife and kids."

Sorry mate, but with the above hanging over my head, with wife and kids, I would be out of there at the first opportunity..........

[fte50]

You don't need to be sorry for me ... and as for the "incapable of understanding" scenario I have lived it 1st hand since 2009 when the closures began at GMH.

Perhaps that's the difference ... non industry keyboard folk THINK they know and understand, and I don't say this with disrespect.

Oh and looking for new jobs doesn't mean leaving. You know better and you know its a figure of speech with a sinking ship.
Finally the payout settlement alone is what stops the rest seeking greener pastures.

[zilo]

I dunno about this talk of the quality going down the gurgler.

My brother worked at Mitsubishi right to the very last day when they only made 35 cars.

He told me that in the final twelve months they were determined to make the best screwed together cars that the plant could produce.

They had plenty of time and the plant threw in plenty of free leather,bluetooth kits etc just to use of the luxury accessories that normally cost more.

So I reckon with the workforce under less pressure the quality will actually be better.

Hold your heads high all you Ford workers!

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by fte50

Perhaps that's the difference ... non industry keyboard folk THINK they know and understand.

You see that last quote interests me, you believe your industry is somehow different from anyone else's, you believe that you are.....somehow "special"......that what applies to the rest of the population does not apply to you in your industry....

Well here's a little reality check for you, when it comes down to keeping a roof overhead and food on the table for those that rely on you, it don't matter where you work.....

Me thinks you have been where you are for to long and been forced to move on will be for your better, I'm serious about that and no malice intended....

[fte50]

Nah, don't think so. I place the same level of importance/respect to any mans job, nor do I think mine is of difference. We all work to provide.
However if other members statements are true, by reading many of the posts here of late and comparing to others awards/conditions, it does in fact appear to be different and unique in terms of the conditions/benefits awarded .
So with this breathe I say those whom face job losses but walk with basic entitlements have not much to lose and can take that "punt" of throwing it away for the security of new employment.
The reality is though irrespective of what industry we belong to, nor ME nor YOU would forego a 150-200k net handshake for the sake of securing another job earlier UNLESS it was of a higher compounding return. You are only taking bread off your kids table, and that is the biggest dis-service.
And yes, a change is always good though you never wilfully throw something good away do you. Just like a marriage, your job is what you make it, and no need to change if you truly enjoy it ... unless of course they're closing.
Anyhow for whatever its worth, I hope everything works out for all involved and hope they not be subjected to hideous talk whilst dealing with an emotional fate.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by fte50

The reality is though irrespective of what industry we belong to, nor ME nor YOU would forego a 150-200k net handshake for the sake of securing another job earlier UNLESS it was of a higher compounding return. You are only taking bread off your kids table, and that is the biggest dis-service

Sorry again but I already done that once, it was the right thing to do then and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again in the unlikely event I found myself in that situation again.....

200k isn't a lot of money when you are standing there newly unemployed with no wages going in the bank, no super payments been made, mortgage payments to be made, family to support and whatever other debts we increasingly seem to accrue, you will be burning a hole through that 200k faster than you think....

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by fte50

Nah, don't think so. I place the same level of importance/respect to any mans job, nor do I think mine is of difference. We all work to provide.
However if other members statements are true, by reading many of the posts here of late and comparing to others awards/conditions, it does in fact appear to be different and unique in terms of the conditions/benefits awarded .
So with this breathe I say those whom face job losses but walk with basic entitlements have not much to lose and can take that "punt" of throwing it away for the security of new employment.
The reality is though irrespective of what industry we belong to, nor ME nor YOU would forego a 150-200k net handshake for the sake of securing another job earlier UNLESS it was of a higher compounding return. You are only taking bread off your kids table, and that is the biggest dis-service.
And yes, a change is always good though you never wilfully throw something good away do you. Just like a marriage, your job is what you make it, and no need to change if you truly enjoy it ... unless of course they're closing.
Anyhow for whatever its worth, I hope everything works out for all involved and hope they not be subjected to hideous talk whilst dealing with an emotional fate.

Bang on the money.
Have recently discussed this scenario with my good mate who has worked for GMH for 26yrs.
I asked him if he'd jump for another job offer, his answer was a firm 'NO, why would I give up what im entitled to'.
And in reality, jobs in the manufacturing industry aren't exactly filling the pages of the vacancies section in the paper at present, especially in SA.

To retrain for something else, by correspondence etc. would still take 12-24mths.

He is 51, will be 55 by the time they close, if they last till 2017.

On topic, I asked him if he thought quality control at GMH would drop now that a date was set.
He said he couldn't tell, they were still building so many the line is moving too quick to check anything other than his station.
Business as usual at Holden.

[fte50]

I dunno DJR, if u believe 200k isn't a lot of cash to hold, well u are living a lot more extravagantly than most in the car industry - and good luck to you.
Perhaps that's why u can't fathom our reasoning.
Simple maths... 200k equals 4yrs of self funded time off @ 50k p/a.
You take the money, and u have 4yrs at your disposal to find employment of your choice. One could safely assume a 'worker' will find work quick enuff , and invest the rest.
This logic is hardly rocket science.

[minheim]

Redundancy payments are taxed at a much lower rate than wages meaning more money in your pocket to pay down debt and potentially invest whilst you look for another job or even to help one relocate. If you have long years of service one would be foolish to go early unless you get a package to do so.

[joolz]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Wow. I remember when they were doing 520 a day.........

Wow I remember when we were supplying 700 driveshafts a day. 1 drivesahft per car. That was in 2003-2004.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by fte50

I dunno DJR, if u believe 200k isn't a lot of cash to hold, well u are living a lot more extravagantly than most in the car industry - and good luck to you.
Perhaps that's why u can't fathom our reasoning.
Simple maths... 200k equals 4yrs of self funded time off @ 50k p/a.
You take the money, and u have 4yrs at your disposal to find employment of your choice. One could safely assume a 'worker' will find work quick enuff , and invest the rest.
This logic is hardly rocket science.

Yep or put the $200K straight on the Mortgage and pay the house off. Hopefully these workers have been putting money away, knowing hard times are coming.

[Magee]

If they drop any further I think the Ford line will start running backwards. Maybe if it does run backwards they can turn the factory into Australia first disassembly car plant and start recycling the oversupply of worn out imported cars we have here.

[Bossxr8]

Where are people getting the idea most workers will be getting over 200k. Most would be lucky to see half that. Only the ones that have been there for 30-40 years will see that much.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by fte50

.... get a life.
Perhaps they needed to employee more hero's like ur self to undermine Australia's working conditions and forego public holidays, penalty rates, rdo's, sick leave etc. Oh but hang on, yes I know, the right wing tossas actually enjoy and relish what the left has achieved.

Whilst I agree that we enjoy these 'entitlements', the impact of the 'abuse' of these entitlements is what is crippling many industries.

I work in a Government Department and our main issue is that of sick leave. Our agreement is VERY generous with employees accruing 18 days sick leave per year. Might I add that they accrue for as long as the employee is working there. I.e., work 2 years, you accrue 36 days etc - they don't lose them. Many private organisations only get 10 and some don't carry over to the next year. As a Manager, I have no problem when people use their sick leave IF THEY ARE SICK. The trouble with Australian workplace culture is that many people believe that these sick leave days are also to be used when they ARE NOT SICK. They view them as an 'entitlement' rather than an 'insurance'. Productivity drops and the costs rise. Doesn't matter whether it's public or private industry - it's the same thing.

I would like a union delegate to explain to me why it is good practice to have union members standing outside a workplace with fake 'sick bags' with info inside on how to take sick leave and the minimal information that they need to give their boss when calling in sick. I would think a union would want to have a high performing and RELIABLE workforce representing them. Unfortunately that is rarely the case in the area that I work in (Think a large Gov dept of over 35000 staff).

We have fantastic conditions, great pay, yet we cannot get our attendance figures to improve. As Managers, we need to take some responsibility for this. Alas, I think we are shovelling the proverbial up a hill due to our Australian workplace culture. I do want to say that 99% of my workers give 110% when they are at work. It's just this entitlement and feeling that it's OK to 'chuck a sickie' that is at the heart of many problems in all industries.

I'll leave you with this little article re Toyota. It's something that I put to my workers in a hope that it will place some context. Government job or not - anything can be sub contracted out these days and regardless of the union promoting that it's ok to 'chuck a sickie' as that's your 'entitlement', I value my job and I also value my workers and want them to KEEP THEIR JOB.


A panellist on a current affairs program related an instance many would have missed. Toyota CEO, Akio Toyoda, was giving a luncheon address to a business group, (paraphrased):

“Two years ago we were working so hard to create conditions whereby we could stay in this wonderful country and produce cars.

"We had restructured the business and, despite acceding to recent union demands for even better wages and conditions, we were seeing a dim light flickering at the end of the tunnel.

“We were honest with our employees and had explained the seriousness of the company’s economic plight.

"They had assured us of their cooperation, so we determined to all pull together in a desperate attempt keep the company viable.

“There was an air of camaraderie, a feeling of hope.

“It was Australia Day that week and it fell on a Thursday. On the Friday thirty percent of our workforce didn’t turn up, thirty percent called in sick.

“That’s when I finally realised we were stuffed.” from Larry Pickering

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by fte50

.... get a life.
Perhaps they needed to employee more hero's like ur self to undermine Australia's working conditions and forego public holidays, penalty rates, rdo's, sick leave etc. Oh but hang on, yes I know, the right wing tossas actually enjoy and relish what the left has achieved.

Actually truth be told I didn't have a problem leaning to the left in my younger days , they actually had an ideology that focused on at least trying to make life better for the worker . I am finding it hard to pick much of a difference between them nowadays , but yourself having a vested interest ( return for your money ) seem to think anyone that has a opinion that differs is a radical conservative .
Pal I have news for you , I like many Australians are getting tired of the same old bleating about sickies , holiday pay and public holidays and how you fought for them . You didn't fight for them and neither did the current bunch of tools that are in opposition . They were fought for by a group of people decades ago who had a lot more moral standing and ethics than your current bunch . Only thing their good at is stabbing each other in the back in the quest for power .

[fte50]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Whilst I agree that we enjoy these 'entitlements', the impact of the 'abuse' of these entitlements is what is crippling many industries.

My statement does not suggest or hinder the abuse of these entitlements.

However Mr Manager, if absenteeism is such a problem amongst your workforce perhaps it would be wise to reflect and determine the root cause of abuse - not all of it is lazy inspired.

The fact however remains, despite what spin anyone puts on it, sick leave is the employees money and not the companies.
Lets assume an employee on $20p/h with 10 paid sickies p/a.
Now lets assume a same employee, no sickie provision ..... $23p/h. Compounded in super contributions etc.
So please explain Mr Manager why companies feel the need to with hold monies that are rightfully not theirs ???

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by fte50

My statement does not suggest or hinder the abuse of these entitlements.

However Mr Manager, if absenteeism is such a problem amongst your workforce perhaps it would be wise to reflect and determine the root cause of abuse - not all of it is lazy inspired.

The fact however remains, despite what spin anyone puts on it, sick leave is the employees money and not the companies.
Lets assume an employee on $20p/h with 10 paid sickies p/a.
Now lets assume a same employee, no sickie provision ..... $23p/h. Compounded in super contributions etc.
So please explain Mr Manager why companies feel the need to with hold monies that are rightfully not theirs ???

LOL , YOU ARE KIDDING . Now you are just digging a bigger and bigger hole , your workmates must be real happy having a public voice such as yours .

[fte50]

Originally Posted by GREGL

Pal I have news for you , I like many Australians are getting tired of the same old bleating about sickies , holiday pay and public holidays and how you fought for them . You didn't fight for them and neither did the current bunch of tools that are in opposition . They were fought for by a group of people decades ago who had a lot more moral standing and ethics than your current bunch . Only thing their good at is stabbing each other in the back in the quest for power .

Learn to read between the lines - don't recall EVER saying "I achieved", and being born in 72 I would be an idiot to imply it.
That would clearly make me as hypocritical as the right.

I do however overwhelmingly agree on your final points. They are a sad bunch.

Originally Posted by GREGL

LOL , YOU ARE KIDDING . Now you are just digging a bigger and bigger hole .

It's your opinion . On the other hand you haven't put forward your alternative theory !

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by fte50

My statement does not suggest or hinder the abuse of these entitlements.

However Mr Manager, if absenteeism is such a problem amongst your workforce perhaps it would be wise to reflect and determine the root cause of abuse - not all of it is lazy inspired.

The fact however remains, despite what spin anyone puts on it, sick leave is the employees money and not the companies.
Lets assume an employee on $20p/h with 10 paid sickies p/a.
Now lets assume a same employee, no sickie provision ..... $23p/h. Compounded in super contributions etc.
So please explain Mr Manager why companies feel the need to with hold monies that are rightfully not theirs ???

OMG! And there we have it! I'm sorry to tell you but sickies are not our employees money!!! Even though I am a Manager I AM AN EMPLOYEE TOO with the SAME conditions. So you think it is ok to take a sickie when you aren't sick. Who makes up for the lost productivity? THERE IN lies the attitude that is bringing this country to its knees.

Did I call my workers lazy? Read my post again! Even though I have disagreed with many of your posts in the past, I respected your way of communication. You have just shown yourself to be the typical person I was talking about in my post.

[P6LTD351]

And BTW fte50, our employees get 15% super. Their wage is not sacrificed to provide them with sickies. They get a high paying wage AND all the entitlements. I'm still flabergasted at how you think sickies are the employees money. It is an insurance. I have some staff that have used all of their sickies. One staff member has worked in the organisation for 30 years. 30 x 18 = 540 days of sickies. All 540 are gone and the person does not have a long term illness.

Guess what? That person is now GENUINELY sick and they have no paid sick leave. They fritted away their INSURANCE. They requested I give them annual leave so they could get paid. I denied their request. You know why? Because for their well being, annual leave is for having a break from work and having a well earned holiday. I wasn't going to give them annual leave just because they abused their INSURANCE for all those years. I knew full well that if they had SICKIES banked up, they would have used them AT THE DEPARTMENTS EXPENSE. At the end of the day it all comes home to roost. Either at the individual level like the example I just gave, or the day that my workers are told that THEIR SAFE GOVERNMENT JOB has been outsourced.

[fte50]

Is that the best "attack" you have.
Did I lament sickies be used when not sick?? - No.
Did I suggest u called your workers lazy ? No ... but your point was abuse of sick leave. Lets disregard the first 1/3 of your post.

THERE IN lies the problem in todays workplaces. Managers bending the truth to achieve the outcomes they seek. Talk about typical. Goodnight.

[P6LTD351]

Oh fte50, I saved you the trouble of re reading my post. I just did it myself. How you took offence and called me Mr Manager when I think I got my point across quite respectfully, amazes me.

You will note that I said that Managers need to take responsibility for the issue too. You might have missed that point.

You might also have missed that I said 99% of our workers give 110% when they are at work. Don't think I called them lazy. They were your words. I think that says something.

We understand that people get sick, need to care for children, have emergencies etc.

The types of sickies I'm talking about are when PEOPLE ARE NOT SICK. It is actually fraud. It is a false claim against an insurance. Unfortunately doctors are no help because they hand out medical certificates like they are going out of fashion. You pretty much just have to turn up to a doctor and get a med cert - sick or not.

How do you address that article re Toyota. You think it's ok that 30% of their staff took a sickie because Australia Day fell on a Thursday so they took Friday off and bugger the company? And BUGGER THEIR FELLOW COLLEAGUES who have to pick up the slack?

God. Help. Us.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by fte50

Is that the best "attack" you have.
Did I lament sickies be used when not sick?? - No.
Did I suggest u called your workers lazy ? No ... but your point was abuse of sick leave. Lets disregard the first 1/3 of your post.

THERE IN lies the problem in todays workplaces. Managers bending the truth to achieve the outcomes they seek. Talk about typical. Goodnight.

What's up with your hate for Managers? Gee you must have had some bad experiences.

As a Manager, I don't hate workers, they are the people that get the job done. You must be self employed now? I would hate getting up to work and always having an attitude of "sticking to the man". You know, the man that puts food on your table, allows you to enjoy the finer things in life?

I just can't understand why people don't want to work together so that both workers AND the company are looked after.

[XR Martin]

If a business allows staff 15 sick days a year, then they should be factoring that into their business model. ie they should assume that those sick days will be used, as well as their leave entitlements. They shouldnt assume those staff wont take those days and claim a loss of productivity when they are taken.

If the staff dont use those entitlements during the a year, then the business will be infront....


Just like on a big construction project they will factor in down days due to bad weather, ie a worst case scenario.
If the weather stays good during that period then they'll be infront/under budget.

[P6LTD351]

And you still haven't answered how in the world 'sickies' are the workers' money. That's an all time classic. Can't wait for the answer. I'll go back to work with your response and be able to tell our CEO that we have it all wrong! It's all their money! Let them take sickies!

Oh, and I hope you are not one of our 15 million customers that wait for up to an hour on the phone trying to get through to us to ensure you have your fortnightly payment.

Maybe that wait might be decreased somehow...

Now do you see what I'm getting at?

[fte50]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

And BTW fte50, our employees get 15% super. Their wage is not sacrificed to provide them with sickies. They get a high paying wage AND all the entitlements. I'm still flabergasted at how you think sickies are the employees money. It is an insurance. I have some staff that have used all of their sickies. One staff member has worked in the organisation for 30 years. 30 x 18 = 540 days of sickies. All 540 are gone and the person does not have a long term illness.

Guess what? That person is now GENUINELY sick and they have no paid sick leave. They fritted away their INSURANCE. They requested I give them annual leave so they could get paid. I denied their request. You know why? Because for their well being, annual leave is for having a break from work and having a well earned holiday. I wasn't going to give them annual leave just because they abused their INSURANCE for all those years. I knew full well that if they had SICKIES banked up, they would have used them AT THE DEPARTMENTS EXPENSE. At the end of the day it all comes home to roost. Either at the individual level like the example I just gave, or the day that my workers are told that THEIR SAFE GOVERNMENT JOB has been outsourced.

Sickies, Insurance, Annual Leave, Long Service Leave, Parental Leave etc etc ......
They are just words of any form, whilst all the while being of a monetary value to the employee, and offset and factored into their total wage / hrly rate, so yes despite what that word is, it is clearly the employees money.


In reference to your example, I take it you must feel good about yourself, playing God I mean. Being in a position to not help out a GENUINELY sick employee by choice... bet it gives u a hard on.
Compassion can be so hard for some.
What if it were your father ???
You have described in 1 sentence the type of man I aspire to never become.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

If a business gives allows staff 15 sick days a year, then they should be factoring that into their business model. ie they should assume that those sick days will be used, as well as their leave entitlements. They shouldnt assume those staff wont take those days and claim a loss of productivity when they are taken.

If the staff dont use those entitlements during the a year, then the business will be infront....

Incorrect. So I guess you assume that the money you pay for your insurance can be claimed even when there's no accident? i.e. nothing to claim for?

What about productivity? What about the workers that turn up and have to pick up the slack? What about low morale because the hard worker is on the same pay as the one that uses all their sickies and hardly turns up?

I'm talking bigger picture!

Unfortunately we live in a ME ME ME society. Ohh, I have 15 days of sick leave. I better use them EVEN WHEN I AM NOT SICK.