Holden HD Holds Australian record for monthly sales

[T-Pak Addict]

I remember as a young lad working in a car yard thinking just about every yard in Adelaide had a least 1 HQ in it.....

I owned a HD a few years ago...
186, 3 on the tree, drum brakes all round....
It was awesome!!!!!!

[HK1837]

HD was always the ugly duckling but nowadays I prefer their look to HR.

The same platforn ran from HD through to HG, they are basically the same car underneath especially HD-HK. This run of Holdens (HD-HG) made the best demo derby cars, I remember them in the 80's and 90's when out of 100 cars the top 10 finishers were always HD-HG, tough old buggers!

There were some pretty quick cars in these series' before GMH dropped the Holden as their weapon of choice in favour of the Torana. The HR 186S 4spd was a very fast car, it was basically a straight line match for the XR GT. With minor head work by Dave Bennett it left an XR GT in its wake (hence why Perfectune got to do the XU1 and L34 heads). The HK GTS327 slaughtered the XT GT in most areas especially Bathurst. The HT GTS350 was hobbled for road tests to hide its potential, and it dominated many race tracks against a seriously tough purposebuilt race car (the XW GT-HO). The HG GTS350 final spec (with Canadian engines) was an acceleration match for a PhaseIII, but was never raced. GMH did play with a few special versions, one lightweight car with an essentially L34 spec 308, and another with a 1970 Z28 LT1 engine and Muncie M22 but both were dumped due to braking limitations. All on the same basic platform, very much like Ford had done for the XR-XY and onwards GT's. Just imagine if the heavyweight battle had continued with 400+ci engines in HQ and HJ coupes and if Ford had stayed interested!


VS was the longest running GMH/Holden series: 4/1995 to 12/2000 (just under 6 years). VE overtook it in 2012: 8/2006 to 5/2013 (just under 7 years).

[Davehoos]

I had a 179 Hd wagon and a few panel vans for around the farm.
these had been very cheep as a boy, most neighbours looking for Ball joint HR front ends,149 for older retro fits and 161-186 for HQ and landrover.

most of my neighbours had FC-EK then HG/HT. and LH-LX torana. 10 year turnover .HQ was not common around these parts.

HQ-HJ I was servicing loads of these in the Newcastle holden dealer workshop till the late 1980s and unleaded petrol.

Mum traded a high milage Moris 1100 for a low milage EJ auto wagon that had been traded at a local BMC dealer. mum used it for 2 children then purchased an imported 68 Toyota crown wagon. Under the house was several sets of front end knuckles I was told dad would buy from wreckers when the tyres wore out.

people had become used to VW Renault brand quality and the Japanese was looking good.

[buickman]

Originally Posted by T-Pak Addict

I remember as a young lad working in a car yard thinking just about every yard in Adelaide had a least 1 HQ in it.....

I owned a HD a few years ago...
186, 3 on the tree, drum brakes all round....
It was awesome!!!!!!

image

Thats a clean HD not many left in that condition.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Falcman0o7

Hidious old POS

Like your car huh?

[Cobramad]

HD = Holden's disaster
HR = Hasty replacement

EH = Excellent Holden... lol

[castellan]

Originally Posted by HK1837

HD was always the ugly duckling but nowadays I prefer their look to HR.

The same platforn ran from HD through to HG, they are basically the same car underneath especially HD-HK. This run of Holdens (HD-HG) made the best demo derby cars, I remember them in the 80's and 90's when out of 100 cars the top 10 finishers were always HD-HG, tough old buggers!

There were some pretty quick cars in these series' before GMH dropped the Holden as their weapon of choice in favour of the Torana. The HR 186S 4spd was a very fast car, it was basically a straight line match for the XR GT. With minor head work by Dave Bennett it left an XR GT in its wake (hence why Perfectune got to do the XU1 and L34 heads). The HK GTS327 slaughtered the XT GT in most areas especially Bathurst. The HT GTS350 was hobbled for road tests to hide its potential, and it dominated many race tracks against a seriously tough purposebuilt race car (the XW GT-HO). The HG GTS350 final spec (with Canadian engines) was an acceleration match for a PhaseIII, but was never raced. GMH did play with a few special versions, one lightweight car with an essentially L34 spec 308, and another with a 1970 Z28 LT1 engine and Muncie M22 but both were dumped due to braking limitations. All on the same basic platform, very much like Ford had done for the XR-XY and onwards GT's. Just imagine if the heavyweight battle had continued with 400+ci engines in HQ and HJ coupes and if Ford had stayed interested!


VS was the longest running GMH/Holden series: 4/1995 to 12/2000 (just under 6 years). VE overtook it in 2012: 8/2006 to 5/2013 (just under 7 years).

HR 186S 4sp vs XR GT289 ? we all know the HR did not have a hope.

HG GTS350 vs Phase 3 ? we all know the HG has not got the power of the Phase 3 just look at the cam spec ? it's a hell of a bigger cam then any GTS350 and the 4V heads flow better as well.

The GTS350 cam spec is around the 351 GT spec.

No USA production Ford 351 Cleveland had a bigger cam than our Pase 2 or 3.

The 1970 Z28 LT1 engine was some thing in the order of a GT-HO other than that our GTS350 engine was on par with our 351 GT and that's all.

The 1970 Z28 has a big solid cam and our GTS350 is only a hydraulic cam.

The Phase 2-3 has a big solid cam as a hydraulic cams that big are rubbish.

[T-Pak Addict]

Originally Posted by buickman

Thats a clean HD not many left in that condition.

When I got it, it had enamel house paint on it....
Took me ages to get that crap off....

Cars shouldn't be painted with a paint brush

[T-Pak Addict]

My old man had a HR that was a factory special..
Only 1 of 2 I was told built at this spec as it had Factory triple carbs...
1967 HR X2 Premier spec 186s with a Turbo 350 Auto trans....
Average fuel consumption was 8mpg, rear tyres lasted about 10,000 miles if you babied it...

Only car I knew of that he loved.....
The car was an amimal.....

When I was 10 we went to Queensland in it and still remember getting pulled over by the Police in a XU1 Torana. We were pulled over for doing 95mph in a 70mph zone.... I remember Dad saying that was lucky.. Glad I slowed down when I seen the XU1 coming up behind me......

[HK1837]

Originally Posted by castellan

HR 186S 4sp vs XR GT289 ? we all know the HR did not have a hope.

HG GTS350 vs Phase 3 ? we all know the HG has not got the power of the Phase 3 just look at the cam spec ? it's a hell of a bigger cam then any GTS350 and the 4V heads flow better as well.

The GTS350 cam spec is around the 351 GT spec.

No USA production Ford 351 Cleveland had a bigger cam than our Pase 2 or 3.

The 1970 Z28 LT1 engine was some thing in the order of a GT-HO other than that our GTS350 engine was on par with our 351 GT and that's all.

The 1970 Z28 has a big solid cam and our GTS350 is only a hydraulic cam.

The Phase 2-3 has a big solid cam as a hydraulic cams that big are rubbish.

We don't all know that. It is a documented fact the HR 186S 4spd (albeit an archaic car compared to an XR GT) was a very fast car in a straight line. Find the road tests of the day and compare. Find the road tests on Dave Bennet's car with the cyl head mods. It is all there in black and white.

Same for HG GTS350. Look at road tests for the two cars, all black and white. AMC spelt it all out quite clearly and re-published the road test records from the day.

1970 LT1 is a full on road registered race engine, that info is also all available on the 'web. Probably a similar spec engine to the Cleveland GT-HO as stated, but a good 60hp or so higher gross rated than the 300hp gross rated HG engine, and so it should be with 11:1, solid lifter cam, alloy intake, big Holley etc. Stick that in a HT-HG GTS and it is obvious what would have happened - just as obvious what would have happened trying to stop the thing too!

[HK1837]

Originally Posted by T-Pak Addict

My old man had a HR that was a factory special..
Only 1 of 2 I was told built at this spec as it had Factory triple carbs...
1967 HR X2 Premier spec 186s with a Turbo 350 Auto trans....
Average fuel consumption was 8mpg, rear tyres lasted about 10,000 miles if you babied it...

Only car I knew of that he loved.....
The car was an amimal.....

When I was 10 we went to Queensland in it and still remember getting pulled over by the Police in a XU1 Torana. We were pulled over for doing 95mph in a 70mph zone.... I remember Dad saying that was lucky.. Glad I slowed down when I seen the XU1 coming up behind me......

It wouldn't have had a TH350 transmission as a factory thing. GMH didn't use a TH350 in anything Aussie made until HJ when it was fitted behind the 250ci Chev 6cyl in South African assembled cars. In Australia it wasn't used until mid 1979 in HZ and VB where it replaced the TH400. The only 6cyl Auto GMH had was the powerglide at that time.

[XR Martin]

And it didnt actually come out until 1969 anyway.

[T-Pak Addict]

Like I said it did have a TH350 3 speed Auto....
and it came that way, Dad was the 2nd owner (bought 1975).

My dad was a diesel mechanic by trade and knew his cars... He knew exactly what he had when he bought it.... He checked into it at the time as some things didn't seem right (trans was one of them), but with help from the dealer he bought it from it was legit... I have never seen another with that setup.

The TH350 wasn't used in cars til 1969 but was developed at the same time as the TH400 and that was 1st used in 1963, How that transmission landed up in the car at the time of when it was made is anyones guess... Strange things happened in the old days....

[Davehoos]

2 speed power glide was the normal. until the HG cable kick down trimatic.

4 speed auto was used on grey motor. not certain what if anything was offered for EH. EJ premiers seam to be common.

Sales training manuals for HQ stressed that the rear axle had tapered roller bearings. and 3 speed syncro box and modern 4 link rear suspension and coils. with long travel shock absorbers.

[HK1837]

Originally Posted by T-Pak Addict

Like I said it did have a TH350 3 speed Auto....
and it came that way, Dad was the 2nd owner (bought 1975).

My dad was a diesel mechanic by trade and knew his cars... He knew exactly what he had when he bought it.... He checked into it at the time as some things didn't seem right (trans was one of them), but with help from the dealer he bought it from it was legit... I have never seen another with that setup.

The TH350 wasn't used in cars til 1969 but was developed at the same time as the TH400 and that was 1st used in 1963, How that transmission landed up in the car at the time of when it was made is anyones guess... Strange things happened in the old days....

I've learned never to discount things about GMH history out of hand, as funny stuff does appear in the wierdest places. I'd be thinking if it did have a 3spd that it was an early use of a TH180, which is a cable kickdown 3spd used in medium duty applications. GMH fitted it to late HT Holdens and called it a Trimatic. GMH improved it greatly for HQ, but the early boxes are the same TH180 as used in Asia and in some North American 6cyl applications. GMH were supposed to use this from the start of HK but like the 253 and 308 it wasn't ready, so they would have been testing it in HK mules which were HD and HR. They always sold off specials or Engineering hacks, so that may be how it got out of captivity. It is easier to understand how it got behind a 6cyl Holden. A TH350 can't be fitted behind a Holden 6 without major mods.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by HK1837

We don't all know that. It is a documented fact the HR 186S 4spd (albeit an archaic car compared to an XR GT) was a very fast car in a straight line. Find the road tests of the day and compare. Find the road tests on Dave Bennet's car with the cyl head mods. It is all there in black and white.

Same for HG GTS350. Look at road tests for the two cars, all black and white. AMC spelt it all out quite clearly and re-published the road test records from the day.

1970 LT1 is a full on road registered race engine, that info is also all available on the 'web. Probably a similar spec engine to the Cleveland GT-HO as stated, but a good 60hp or so higher gross rated than the 300hp gross rated HG engine, and so it should be with 11:1, solid lifter cam, alloy intake, big Holley etc. Stick that in a HT-HG GTS and it is obvious what would have happened - just as obvious what would have happened trying to stop the thing too!

Would of been good to have a HT-G GTS with the 1970 LT1 engine

XY GT-HO made 350 HP true HP at the fly wheel.

My neighbour down one door back in 1973-4 had a HG GTS 350 manual and my dads mate had the XY GT-HO and down a 3 mile straight old mate in the HO was sitting behind the HG doing 120 mph then he over took the 350 Monaro with no problem. and that was what the dude in his late 20's said who own the HG GTS 350 and old mate with the HO confirmed at the pub.
Neighbour knew he had no chance against a HO.
But I liked the big HG better than the HO but the HO sounded better any day with that lumpy cam.
That HG GTS 350 ended up being written off in a big smash he had as he had some steering lock fitted to it that jammed, so he said.
The 350 would only rev to 5500 but lost power at that.
The 351 would go to 6200 and cut out but had heaps of power all the way to 6200.

Dave's HR would of had a cam mod as well for sure.

My big brother had a HR with a gem recon 161 with twin strombergs and extractors std cam I would think and it went well, loved to rev. I wound it out to 115 mph once by the speedo and had to back off for fear as she was taking up the whole road floating all about and with only drum brakes all around so I had to give up at that.

Another mates mum had a XR289 auto Fairmont in 1977 it went well I thought and I had a HR 186 auto. the Fairmont would kill my HR and that HR would kill my sisters HK 186 auto any day.

[HK1837]

The HR 186 4spd was no race car, their quarter mile times were at least a second slower than an XR GT (even longer if they had a 3.36 diff fitted). But the fact that it was a 6cyl HR Holden, not modified from how it comes off the showroom floor, and could be 1-1.5 seconds only behind an XR GT over the quarter is an enormous achievement for the car. Dave Bennett's car was as far as I am aware only a head change and dynoed to tune, that was the whole point: to showcase his new Yella Terra heads. That car was also a Premier so heavier than a Special, and it was 2 seconds faster than an XR GT to 100mph. Of course you could make the GT faster with a mod as well, but the XR GT was the benchmark of the day hence why the Perfectune HR was compared to it.

PhaseIII was always the better all around car (it was designed to be), but the HT-G GTS350 especially the final HG's weren't that far behind in acceleration which is also a pretty big achievement for a base spec 1969 Camaro/Corvette/Impala etc engine in a fairly antiquated design car by 1970.

We would have all loved a 1970 Z28 engine in a Monaro, and GMH did build such a experimental car - it actually used the Hurricane's oil cooled brakes. Another of the cars was an L34 type 308 (probably the same engine Firth later had for the V8 LJ GTR) and wide ratio M22 Saginaw with a 2.5-ish Salisbury in a HG GTS, this was the "lightweight" option to overcome the lack of brakes of the HG. Tall rear axle and wide ratio box were to keep the 308 below 6000rpm. Both of these cars were a response to the failure of the LC XU1 in 1970, but as far as I am aware both were abandoned due to brake reliability over a Bathurst enduro. Shame as they both would have been awesome cars. The lightweight car still exists today, still carrying its special Engineering ID tag - Harry Firth even mentions it in an AMC interview in one issue.

None of which is all that relevant I guess to the OP's HD except these cars share the same platform!

[Kingsley]

My dad had a HD. Bastard of a car in summer. I fondly recall burning my fingers on the hot seat belt buckles and trying to hold the fastened belt off my stomach. All this while the back of my legs were receiving first degree burns from the sun heated vinyl seat!!!!

As for the merits of the HG 350 'McKinnon' block Monaro's. I think that a number of myths were de-bunked in the R/T Charger thread. One being the 'McKinnon' block HG's were never tested at the time. Point being, under current editorship not all information printed in AMCM these days is researched properly, reliable or to be taken as gospel. Particularly if you dyno tune a car and test it 40 years later......

[HK1837]

I remember those seat and seat buckle burns from HQ's. Bloody terrible stuff!

The HG McKinnon stuff is not myth, it is fact. Anyone who says otherwise does not have the facts in front of them. Mel Nichols and Peter Robinson both tested them, Mel's was actually the earlier Tonnawanda engine but it wasn't hobbled like the original road test HT 350's were (GMH purposely hobbled the HK GTS327 and the HT GTS350 road test cars to hide their potential). So it wasn't as much that the HG GTS350 McKinnon engine was streets ahead of the earlier engine, it was that prior to that time reporters and testers had only been permitted to drive the hobbled test cars. The Mackinnon engined car is slightly better as it has a later design Fuellie head that flows better, the big difference is between the original road test cars and the real world cars. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford did similar things to hide the true potential of the the GT-HO's. GMH did it regularly, they also knew they had a mole as Ford found out eveything they were up to so they did lots of things to disguise what they were up to (like the 350Z name, car had a 400 in it).

This is all well documented in AMC issue 51, and it is all properly researched. I personally know one of the researchers and he would not put his name to it without supporting evidence. They even tested a Survivor and it basically showed the facts as they stand.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by HK1837

The HR 186 4spd was no race car, their quarter mile times were at least a second slower than an XR GT (even longer if they had a 3.36 diff fitted). But the fact that it was a 6cyl HR Holden, not modified from how it comes off the showroom floor, and could be 1-1.5 seconds only behind an XR GT over the quarter is an enormous achievement for the car. Dave Bennett's car was as far as I am aware only a head change and dynoed to tune, that was the whole point: to showcase his new Yella Terra heads. That car was also a Premier so heavier than a Special, and it was 2 seconds faster than an XR GT to 100mph. Of course you could make the GT faster with a mod as well, but the XR GT was the benchmark of the day hence why the Perfectune HR was compared to it.

PhaseIII was always the better all around car (it was designed to be), but the HT-G GTS350 especially the final HG's weren't that far behind in acceleration which is also a pretty big achievement for a base spec 1969 Camaro/Corvette/Impala etc engine in a fairly antiquated design car by 1970.

We would have all loved a 1970 Z28 engine in a Monaro, and GMH did build such a experimental car - it actually used the Hurricane's oil cooled brakes. Another of the cars was an L34 type 308 (probably the same engine Firth later had for the V8 LJ GTR) and wide ratio M22 Saginaw with a 2.5-ish Salisbury in a HG GTS, this was the "lightweight" option to overcome the lack of brakes of the HG. Tall rear axle and wide ratio box were to keep the 308 below 6000rpm. Both of these cars were a response to the failure of the LC XU1 in 1970, but as far as I am aware both were abandoned due to brake reliability over a Bathurst enduro. Shame as they both would have been awesome cars. The lightweight car still exists today, still carrying its special Engineering ID tag - Harry Firth even mentions it in an AMC interview in one issue.

None of which is all that relevant I guess to the OP's HD except these cars share the same platform!

In Australia we have only the stupid 1/4 mile times to deal with in them days, to me that's just kids stuff as it's after the 1/4 mile that it's all about.

How about the stupid test of the EB XR6 and XR8 they point out the XR6 is faster but is it to top speed, no ! but they did not test that did they. or how much better the XR8 is to drive.

The Phase 3 was not a better all round car, it was a pig to drive and the only time it was at it's best was driving it flat out like a mad man on the street.

I have seen a lot of yella terra head red 6 cyl in my time with the std cam and they don't go that much harder. old Dave sold YT cams as well maybe he slipped a little cam in it as well .
I would like to know the YT HR times it did.

[HK1837]

Originally Posted by castellan

In Australia we have only the stupid 1/4 mile times to deal with in them days, to me that's just kids stuff as it's after the 1/4 mile that it's all about.

How about the stupid test of the EB XR6 and XR8 they point out the XR6 is faster but is it to top speed, no ! but they did not test that did they. or how much better the XR8 is to drive.

The Phase 3 was not a better all round car, it was a pig to drive and the only time it was at it's best was driving it flat out like a mad man on the street.

I have seen a lot of yella terra head red 6 cyl in my time with the std cam and they don't go that much harder. old Dave sold YT cams as well maybe he slipped a little cam in it as well .
I would like to know the YT HR times it did.

I agree 1/4 miles are only one part of the story. But it does give some insight into the car.

I'll see if I can find the tests. There was a road test done I think.

[Kingsley]

Originally Posted by HK1837

I remember those seat and seat buckle burns from HQ's. Bloody terrible stuff!

The HG McKinnon stuff is not myth, it is fact. Anyone who says otherwise does not have the facts in front of them. Mel Nichols and Peter Robinson both tested them, Mel's was actually the earlier Tonnawanda engine but it wasn't hobbled like the original road test HT 350's were (GMH purposely hobbled the HK GTS327 and the HT GTS350 road test cars to hide their potential). So it wasn't as much that the HG GTS350 McKinnon engine was streets ahead of the earlier engine, it was that prior to that time reporters and testers had only been permitted to drive the hobbled test cars. The Mackinnon engined car is slightly better as it has a later design Fuellie head that flows better, the big difference is between the original road test cars and the real world cars. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford did similar things to hide the true potential of the the GT-HO's. GMH did it regularly, they also knew they had a mole as Ford found out eveything they were up to so they did lots of things to disguise what they were up to (like the 350Z name, car had a 400 in it).

This is all well documented in AMC issue 51, and it is all properly researched. I personally know one of the researchers and he would not put his name to it without supporting evidence. They even tested a Survivor and it basically showed the facts as they stand.

So Holden under quoted power figures back then??? When did they swing around to over quoting like they do now??? Seems odd that would do this since they were in the same ****ing contest as Ford and Chrysler.
I know who did the story. I know my Monaro's well enough. Owned a few and still have one. Have all the books published on them too. Funny how after the many books published on the Monaro (of which I have) never once did any of them mention the McKinnon block Monaro's having this kind of performance. Sure, they existed, but not with astonishing performance figures AMCM claims.
But I stand by the fact the 'survivor' was tested 40 years after the fact and with the benefit of a dyno tune before being tested. 40 years is long time. It's amazing what can be forgot or conveniently forgotten. Also claiming several drag racers at the time recorded the same times is horse **** without proof. Who are these several drag racers that could afford and knew of the McKinnon blocked Monaro's?? BTW, when was the last time you heard of a drag racer taking a factory tuned stocker to the track???? And using the various accounts of journalists and editors of Wheels magazine is hardly a reliable source either. Seen the GT-F/GTS thread???
If no-one bothered to test these things properly when they were new, then why should we believe hear-say 40 years later?? If you want to believe everything you read from GM's new nostalgia pamphlet (AMCM) more 'McKinnon block' power to you.

[HK1837]

Originally Posted by BluFGXR6

So Holden under quoted power figures back then??? When did they swing around to over quoting like they do now??? Seems odd that would do this since they were in the same ****ing contest as Ford and Chrysler.
I know who did the story. I know my Monaro's well enough. Owned a few and still have one. Have all the books published on them too. Funny how after the many books published on the Monaro (of which I have) never once did any of them mention the McKinnon block Monaro's having this kind of performance. Sure, they existed, but not with astonishing performance figures AMCM claims.
But I stand by the fact the 'survivor' was tested 40 years after the fact and with the benefit of a dyno tune before being tested. 40 years is long time. It's amazing what can be forgot or conveniently forgotten. Also claiming several drag racers at the time recorded the same times is horse **** without proof. Who are these several drag racers that could afford and knew of the McKinnon blocked Monaro's?? BTW, when was the last time you heard of a drag racer taking a factory tuned stocker to the track???? And using the various accounts of journalists and editors of Wheels magazine is hardly a reliable source either. Seen the GT-F/GTS thread???
If no-one bothered to test these things properly when they were new, then why should we believe hear-say 40 years later?? If you want to believe everything you read from GM's new nostalgia pamphlet (AMCM) more 'McKinnon block' power to you.

I never said they underquoted power figures, in fact it was the opposite, example the auto 350 engine was given 20hp it didn't have on its US figures. They HOBBLED the cars so they wouldn't perfrom to their potential. GTS327 and GTS350 were built to win races, one in particular, like the GT-HO was. Cat was well and truly desired to be left in the bag. Just like it was with the HK.
Rest is fact, whether you choose to believe it or not is no skin off my nose.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by buickman

While browsing through a car museum I came across a restored HD Holden with one of the information pamphlets saying the HD in May 1965 sold 19,000 cars in 31 days a record that still stands today. I thought these were one of the least popular Holden’s and personally think the XP with 2 door offerings and 200cu 6Cyl and the Valiant AP6 with 273cu V8 were much nicer cars from that year.
Attachment 84252

Yes they were indeed "nicer cars" than the HD...but they didn't sell as well. People mostly...then as now...didn't automatically go for a V8 or the biggest engine they could. They went for what was popular, and the HD did sell well at the time. It was a radical departure from the EH in style and people liked it.

Now they're one of the less popular models...but at the time things were very different.

[HK1837]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Yes they were indeed "nicer cars" than the HD...but they didn't sell as well. People mostly...then as now...didn't automatically go for a V8 or the biggest engine they could. They went for what was popular, and the HD did sell well at the time. It was a radical departure from the EH in style and people liked it.

Now they're one of the less popular models...but at the time things were very different.

It has traditionally been the case with GMH product, everyone wanted the latest car or look of the car. Hence after the similar series run was finished, eveyone wanted (going backwards) WB, HZ, LX, HG, HR etc. Nowadays the more desired and indeed more valuable cars are the early cars ie HK and HQ despite their shortcomings compared to the later updates. I think XA are displaying this trend too in Ford, whereas in the past XB and XC were what was wanted. I wouldn't be surprised if HD's in X2 spec Premier end up being one of the most desired of HD-HR. There will always be valuable and extremely desirable stuff in later update series though, with cars like XC Cobra, LX SS A9X etc around.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by HK1837

I agree 1/4 miles are only one part of the story. But it does give some insight into the car.

I'll see if I can find the tests. There was a road test done I think.

All I can find is that Dyno Dave had a HR that he used as a test bed for his XU-1 engine.

[HK1837]

Originally Posted by castellan

All I can find is that Dyno Dave had a HR that he used as a test bed for his XU-1 engine.

I know someone who has full tests for the car, he just has to find them. I might ask Dave if I can get hold of him what was done to the car. I remember reading about it years ago, and from memory the limiting factor with the engine was the head, the cam, valves etc were all up to the job just the casting wasn't, and he maximised the potential of the standard engine allowing it to achieve its best out of the stock components. Shame about the Opel box though! Would have been far better if you could have optioned an M21 Saginaw behind the 186S HR like you could in a HK 186S.

[Davehoos]

Cut up a good automatic HR premier to fit an opel---bang gearbox.

performance gearbox on a HK 6 cyl was a 3 speed synchro box.

I had seen sagnaw 3 speed in this era but I had thought these had been for export or after market.

lot of fuss has been made in the 80's about adding gear ratio.at the time it was all about getting a better shifter and increasing the touque RPM spread.

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by HK1837

It has traditionally been the case with GMH product, everyone wanted the latest car or look of the car. Hence after the similar series run was finished, eveyone wanted (going backwards) WB, HZ, LX, HG, HR etc. Nowadays the more desired and indeed more valuable cars are the early cars ie HK and HQ despite their shortcomings compared to the later updates. I think XA are displaying this trend too in Ford, whereas in the past XB and XC were what was wanted. I wouldn't be surprised if HD's in X2 spec Premier end up being one of the most desired of HD-HR. There will always be valuable and extremely desirable stuff in later update series though, with cars like XC Cobra, LX SS A9X etc around.

They have been for a while and good luck finding one .
The hd/hr are a notorious rust bucket . When you advertise one and you say " rust in usual places " you actually mean anywhere you look . Mind you a xa /b/c was not far behind .
Ian Tait who worked with HDT in the Xu1 era reckoned a 6 was good for a honest 200 bhp with the right bits .Pretty good when limited to heads . cams and exhaust .

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Davehoos

Cut up a good automatic HR premier to fit an opel---bang gearbox.

performance gearbox on a HK 6 cyl was a 3 speed synchro box.

I had seen sagnaw 3 speed in this era but I had thought these had been for export or after market.

lot of fuss has been made in the 80's about adding gear ratio.at the time it was all about getting a better shifter and increasing the touque RPM spread.

The 4sp sagnaw was behind GTS 186's with 3.55 diff ratio and ute and p van