Does Holden have an advantage after local assembly stops?

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by zilo

As long as it starts, is safe, can get the kids to school and doesn't use a pile of petrol, has an ipod interface then it's a winner....and noone cares about RWD.

Till the day I hand in my licence I'm not going to compromise on having a car that's great to drive!

That feeling was reinforced this morning when I was returning home in my Territory along one of our country roads here and I was being tailgated by a typical Japanese box. Then we got to the hillclimb with the tight S's and I put the boot into it and he faded back into the distance.

Never say die

[You Yangs]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

I agree, aside from V8 RWD aussie models, the GM range as it stands is mediocre, current captiva is a Daewoo legacy model, Colorado isn't as solid an effort as ranger.
Ford by comparison haven't got as far to fall so to speak, remove Falcon and Territory, they are left with well regarded cars that don't sell as they should. With good cars, you can market your way back to prosperity, with mediocre, you cant fool the average punter.

Holden have been fooling the average punter for decades with mediocre product. With their latest ad campaign nothing looks like changing.

[FalconXV]

One thing I've noticed, on the Facebook page, they have videos of the Director of Quality, Vehicle Dynamics Engineer, HRT and Commodore Executive Director talking it up. No designer videos- Could this be a telling sign they won't visually differentiate it from the Insignia?

[Windsor220]

Burnout culture will be dead

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Till the day I hand in my licence I'm not going to compromise on having a car that's great to drive!

That feeling was reinforced this morning when I was returning home in my Territory along one of our country roads here and I was being tailgated by a typical Japanese box. Then we got to the hillclimb with the tight S's and I put the boot into it and he faded back into the distance.

Never say die

I drive a Japanese box - it is a V8 and RWD 😉

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

Sorry darlin.

No worries. Chief.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

One thing I've noticed, on the Facebook page, they have videos of the Director of Quality, Vehicle Dynamics Engineer, HRT and Commodore Executive Director talking it up. No designer videos- Could this be a telling sign they won't visually differentiate it from the Insignia?

Why would they? There isn't any engineering going on by Holden so you would expect just import and sell.

[Vormund]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Isn't the natural next-car transition for a RWD Falcon or Commodore owner the equivalent BMW or Mercedes model? After all, there's nothing else equivalent on the market afaik.

("subject to finance"!)

Chrysler 300C

There's talk of bringing the Charger here too - but just with the 300C interior

[timeout]

hoonigans need to face facts that the big aussie rwd v8 and t6 is dead. and get use to the idea of the insignia and things like the new focus being sold as performance cars.

the global mandate is no more v12s 8s or 6s for plebs. US cafe and euro emissions are driving this.

face facts the equivalent m3 or amg type vehicle will never be 35990 drive away

[DanielXR8]

The company with the best advantage after local production is gone, is Chrysler. Charger is coming. The next gen is RHD protected and a team from Chrysler is coming out this year to Australia to look at market opportunities and performance models are high on the list to look at. Falcon and Commodore V8 sales would be too good an opportunity to pass up. Australia was identified as a growth opportunity in a recent interview I heard, from a senior Chrysler exec.

Chrysler won't screw up the opportunity by overpricing the cars or marketing them poorly either.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

The company with the best advantage after local production is gone, is Chrysler. Charger is coming. The next gen is RHD protected and a team from Chrysler is coming out this year to Australia to look at market opportunities and performance models are high on the list to look at. Falcon and Commodore V8 sales would be too good an opportunity to pass up. Australia was identified as a growth opportunity in a recent interview I heard.

Chrysler won't screw up the opportunity either.

Niche market won't make any inroads.

This is Toyota and VWs market to grow.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Niche market won't make any inroads.

This is Toyota and VWs market to grow.

Agreed on the mainstream. Ford is basically heading to 8th place on the charts as they are on the nose with punters, but the V8 market I reckon will be Ford and GM's to lose. Chrysler will be the one to watch as they will take that market I reckon.

Holden will stay one up on Ford, but that won't be saying much. Both will be out of the main action, as the Koreans and Japanese duke it out with VW after them.

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by timeout

hoonigans need to face facts that the big aussie rwd v8 and t6 is dead. and get use to the idea of the insignia and things like the new focus being sold as performance cars.

the global mandate is no more v12s 8s or 6s for plebs. US cafe and euro emissions are driving this.

face facts the equivalent m3 or amg type vehicle will never be 35990 drive away

hoonigans? is that so.

well then. The Australian 'think tanks' for Canberra, need to face the FACT that if they continue on this path, dividing Australian culture so significantly from the USA, then the commonwealth corporation WILL FAIL, if it's not on it's way already.

No more 8's and 12's for plebs, huh. been to the USA recently? or are aussies the only ones to be the plebs that you speak of. Because in America horsepower is still everywhere and continues to INCREASE rather than go so called 'green'. GLOBAL mandate????? OK then why the new Corvette, Mustang, Challenger, Camaro, Chev/Ford trucks, etc etc etc, with more HORSEPOWER than ALL of their predecessors

answer me that one einstein

[zilo]

Originally Posted by AUwindsor

hoonigans? is that so.

well then. The Australian 'think tanks' for Canberra, need to face the FACT that if they continue on this path, dividing Australian culture so significantly from the USA, then the commonwealth corporation WILL FAIL, if it's not on it's way already.

No more 8's and 12's for plebs, huh. been to the USA recently? or are aussies the only ones to be the plebs that you speak of. Because in America horsepower is still everywhere and continues to INCREASE rather than go so called 'green'. GLOBAL mandate????? OK then why the new Corvette, Mustang, Challenger, Camaro, Chev/Ford trucks, etc etc etc, with more HORSEPOWER than ALL of their predecessors

answer me that one einstein

Hey mate that's really interesting, any chance you can provide a link to show where Americans are buying more high powered cars in greater numbers as a trend compared to lesser powered more fuel efficient cars?

I would love to win an argument with my missus about it .

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Why would they? There isn't any engineering going on by Holden so you would expect just import and sell.

Well I would of thought maybe at least unique front and rear clips, maybe different trim etc. Be interesting to see if they continue with Calais, SV6 nameplates.
If there's V6 models, they'll be unique to Australia; because NA V6's won't sell in Europe.

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by timeout

the global mandate?? is no more v12s 8s or 6s for plebs. US cafe and euro emissions are driving this.

"quote: Two of the most powerful American cars of ALL time"..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WIjTBBuLp0

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by AUwindsor

hoonigans? is that so.

well then. The Australian 'think tanks' for Canberra, need to face the FACT that if they continue on this path, dividing Australian culture so significantly from the USA, then the commonwealth corporation WILL FAIL, if it's not on it's way already.

No more 8's and 12's for plebs, huh. been to the USA recently? or are aussies the only ones to be the plebs that you speak of. Because in America horsepower is still everywhere and continues to INCREASE rather than go so called 'green'. GLOBAL mandate????? OK then why the new Corvette, Mustang, Challenger, Camaro, Chev/Ford trucks, etc etc etc, with more HORSEPOWER than ALL of their predecessors

answer me that one einstein

Because of advancements with EFI, we live in times where emissions laws are stricter than ever before, cars are making more power and being cleaner.

There is also this thing called forced induction which took off sometime in the 1980s as well which has helped a lot.

I guess these points might be lost on someone with the username "AUwindsor" though

[1TUFFUTE]

Fords new global supercar is a V6......with twin turbos
Aus is getting the new mustang aswell. One pony car leaves us......more fill its place.

[mac_man_luke]

Id say ford have an advantage over holden in that they actually have other models worth buying - not just daewoos

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Vormund

Chrysler 300C

There's talk of bringing the Charger here too - but just with the 300C interior

there is also Lexus GS and Nissans variant Infinity Q70 all with RWD 4 doors.

priced higher than the Chrysler though.

so that's at least 4 brands

but I think the small amount that actually care about RWD will need to up their budget.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by mac_man_luke

Id say ford have an advantage over holden in that they actually have other models worth buying - not just daewoos

That's not fair they have Isuzu's too!

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Because of advancements with EFI, we live in times where emissions laws are stricter than ever before, cars are making more power and being cleaner.

There is also this thing called forced induction which took off sometime in the 1980s as well which has helped a lot.

I guess these points might be lost on someone with the username "AUwindsor" though

I had the first quickest cam-only ls1 Holden in OZ, back in the early 2000's, tuned by myself personally. Advancements in EFI, i knew before most then, and I know where it's at today.

Assumptions are so funny

You need to read my post again, and understand that this was about said poster saying "GLOBAL MANDATE IS NO LONGER V8's FOR PLEBS" in which I responded, no, it's not.

why do I bother

Keep patronising me though, it suits you well.. and some of your mates here, typical so called "experts", on global issues. You know nothing about competing globally hence why your beloved OZ car companies can no longer barely sell a Falcon or Commodore to aussies, but across the pond the car manufacturers can make a product which their people want to buy, and are buying.

Your attempts to get me banned are so obvious

[timeout]

AUWINDSOR I suggest you do some research between US CAFE and EURO6 (and beyond) standards no manufacturer is going to be able to deliver big banger v12, 8s and 6s of the past.
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l28186_en.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora...e_Fuel_Economy

Just because it’s on sale today doesn’t mean they are not warming people to the idea that things are changing.
Look at one example the new Ford GT is a V6 not a V8 like the previous 2005 version and very unlike its 1960s predecessor.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/f...how-2015-01-12
The new Ferrari is a twin turbo V8 and not an outright screamer of the past.
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/f...04-135de1.html

Formula One has transitioned back to I4 Turbos
http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sp...608118125b162b
Ferrari
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...d-v6s-possible

V8SC are embrasing V6s/Turbos
http://www.caradvice.com.au/323314/v...pes-from-2017/
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...11-114syw.html

Audi ditching V8’s (RS4/RS6)
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/a...23-11an2j.html
Merc Retiring V12s (from 2013)
http://www.gtspirit.com/2013/03/28/m...for-5-6-years/

and 5.5 TT V8
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...-turbo-v8.html
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11501198...turbo-55-liter
It wont be going overnight but it’s downsizing.

Mazda:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...d-v6s-possible

Ford:
http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2015...0-raptor-48538
Raptor dropped the 6.2 for the TT V6 ecoboost.

Your next Holden will likely be an Opel Insignia V6 which is going through import approvals now via RCVS (earlier in this page).
No Holden or Ford V8s in local production after the current batch.

Import only of Mustang and whatever else holden/gm comes up with


The SRT8 and doge type things will be niche products also.

So fire away mr Dinosaurany of the new utes are Diesel, i cant find any non US imported ute with a V6 or V8 Diesel for large volume other than Toyotas Troopies.


Note Nissan Dropped the V6 TTD 550TI pathfinder and navara.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by mac_man_luke

Id say ford have an advantage over holden in that they actually have other models worth buying - not just daewoos

But a lot of the Fords are built in Thai and Indian factories.. so nothing flash really.

[Mick K.]

Holden's advantage is that they have effective marketing and packaging. They make people feel all patriotic about buying an "Aussie" Barina or Captiva, and they are doing a great job of avoiding the heat that Ford has received from the media about pulling out of local manufacturing, despite them just being a year behind Ford on that one.

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by timeout

AUWINDSOR I suggest you do some research between US CAFE and EURO6 (and beyond) standards no manufacturer is going to be able to deliver big banger v12, 8s and 6s of the past.
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l28186_en.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpora...e_Fuel_Economy

Just because it’s on sale today doesn’t mean they are not warming people to the idea that things are changing.
Look at one example the new Ford GT is a V6 not a V8 like the previous 2005 version and very unlike its 1960s predecessor.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/f...how-2015-01-12
The new Ferrari is a twin turbo V8 and not an outright screamer of the past.
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/f...04-135de1.html

Formula One has transitioned back to I4 Turbos
http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sp...608118125b162b
Ferrari
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...d-v6s-possible

V8SC are embrasing V6s/Turbos
http://www.caradvice.com.au/323314/v...pes-from-2017/
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...11-114syw.html

Audi ditching V8’s (RS4/RS6)
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/a...23-11an2j.html
Merc Retiring V12s (from 2013)
http://www.gtspirit.com/2013/03/28/m...for-5-6-years/

and 5.5 TT V8
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...-turbo-v8.html
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11501198...turbo-55-liter
It wont be going overnight but it’s downsizing.

Mazda:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...d-v6s-possible

Ford:
http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2015...0-raptor-48538
Raptor dropped the 6.2 for the TT V6 ecoboost.

Your next Holden will likely be an Opel Insignia V6 which is going through import approvals now via RCVS (earlier in this page).
No Holden or Ford V8s in local production after the current batch.

Import only of Mustang and whatever else holden/gm comes up with


The SRT8 and doge type things will be niche products also.

So fire away mr Dinosaurany of the new utes are Diesel, i cant find any non US imported ute with a V6 or V8 Diesel for large volume other than Toyotas Troopies.


Note Nissan Dropped the V6 TTD 550TI pathfinder and navara.

blah.. blah... blahh.

internet link all you want.

go tell it to Dodge, GM Performance, Ford Racing, in the USA

but keep voting for the so called 'green' agenda ;) the trillionaires love you man ... look they even do their own lil bit, banking is a dirty biz http://www.rothschild.com/about_roth...t/environment/

[mr smith]

As crappy as their cars are, hats off to their marketing dept.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by mr smith

As crappy as their cars are, hats off to their marketing dept.

"Coz" Ford Marketing is Crap !

[FGX-351]

Holdens future arrangements are born of their disadvantage with anything not related to commodore being inferior and maintaining the "Holden is Straya!" culture.

For that reason they need "Commodore" & "HSV" at least in the short term to ween their buyers into newer, better products.

[chookaradley]

Ford have the much better range, no doubt about it. But Ford Aus have an image problem, they are on the nose. Apart from Ranger they have very little cred amongst the general buying public. This has to change and quickly.

Holden on the other hand has loads of cred. Moronic people continue to buy Cruze and Captiva in reasonable numbers, and Commodore does well (deserves to.) IMO Holden have played Russian Roulette with their brand for a number of years and got away with it. Both companies seem to be taking a completely different tact post ceasing local manufacturing.