Speeding Fines in QLD To Increase from July 1

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by superyob

If you are going to make a statement like that then I would like some evidence please! Off course you can ignore my request or tell me where to go (you won't be the first) but you will also risk a dire and perilous situation whereby I will possible not believe you!!!

I suppose that working on the front line as an ambo doesn't count?

[kaniSS]

Originally Posted by b0son

And its any better in NSW??? Didn't the Libs before coming into power promise a review of speed camera use? And what was the outcome? I see a lot more mobile cameras than before, and fewer cops patrolling and more parked on freeway medians.

What's that got to do with raising the actual fine amount?

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Revolver

I suppose that working on the front line as an ambo doesn't count?

Of course it does. What is your take on the situation?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by superyob

If you are going to make a statement like that then I would like some evidence please! Off course you can ignore my request or tell me where to go (you won't be the first) but you will also risk a dire and perilous situation whereby I will possible not believe you!!!

I have never been to a road fatality where the driver was doing less than 10% over the posted speed limit, I don't know of anyone that has and that equates to a hell of a lot of road fatalities on QLD roads. I have however been to a lot of crashes that involve people not paying attention to the road ahead of them which is a situation that such small margins of error in speed limit enforcement supports.

it is a really interesting situation, we get the commissioner of police and AC's jumping on the media preaching speed kills and justifying the lowering of tolerances as a meaningful method of addressing the situation. Meanwhile in discussions with police officers including the major crash investigators the general consensus of the troops on the front line is that it is a misguided effort and making no difference. Could that be because the higher up powers are under pressure to tow the government line in order to gain favour with the government, gain promotion or maintain current positions? Just think about that for a while.

Also consider despite an increase in speed cameras and reduction in speed tolerance we just had our worst Easter period for fatalities in many years.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I have never been to a road fatality where the driver was doing less than 10% over the posted speed limit, I don't know of anyone that has and that equates to a hell of a lot of road fatalities on QLD roads. I have however been to a lot of crashes that involve people not paying attention to the road ahead of them which is a situation that such small margins of error in speed limit enforcement supports.

it is a really interesting situation, we get the commissioner of police and AC's jumping on the media preaching speed kills and justifying the lowering of tolerances as a meaningful method of addressing the situation. Meanwhile in discussions with police officers including the major crash investigators the general consensus of the troops on the front line is that it is a misguided effort and making no difference. Could that be because the higher up powers are under pressure to tow the government line in order to gain favour with the government, gain promotion or maintain current positions? Just think about that for a while.

Also consider despite an increase in speed cameras and reduction in speed tolerance we just had our worst Easter period for fatalities in many years.

But/So what can/are you going to do about it. accept the status-quo or change it!
While there are people like me who have no issues with the fine for speeding system (yes I have received my share of speeding tickets) the anti fines people are going to have an uphill battle.
I wish you luck, but its a battle not worth me joining.

JP

[LoudPipes]

Why not give the State Governments what they pretend to want.

If everyone in Australia made a concerted effort to drive 5 km/h under all speed limits for a few months or until they forced a change in the way road safety is sold to the public, that would …. them.

A loss of revenue of that magnitude would cause the States to refocus their true agenda and show them up for what they truly are.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by kaniSS

What's that got to do with raising the actual fine amount?

You're implying things would be better under Libs. Lets face it, both sides of politics are addicted to the revenue.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

A loss of revenue of that magnitude would cause the States to refocus their true agenda and show them up for what they truly are.

It already happened in Victoria. When cameras were rolled out en masse, the revenue was huge and every man and his dog was getting booked. A year or two later, and people adapted and slowed down, and the revenue fell. So what did they do? Drop the tolerance. If the revenue from that starts falling, you watch, they'll be trialling 40 as the default urban limit.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by b0son

It already happened in Victoria. When cameras were rolled out en masse, the revenue was huge and every man and his dog was getting booked. A year or two later, and people adapted and slowed down, and the revenue fell. So what did they do? Drop the tolerance. If the revenue from that starts falling, you watch, they'll be trialling 40 as the default urban limit.

Unfortunately I suspect this is already happening with the reduction of urban limits from 60 down to 50.

Unfortunately as the speeds decrease the driver attention also decreases, as does the fatigue related crashes in semi rural and rural areas. End result the revenue is protected but no real inroads are made on the reduction of the road toll.

[Franco Cozzo]

I live in Victoria, which has more speed cameras combined than all the other states put together.

I speed everywhere, usually 10km/h over on the highways, the only time I came close to getting a fine was I was doing 125 in a 100 zone for around 20km, coming home from night school at around 10pm, with my high beams and spotlights going.

Saw a car in the distance coming towards me, turned my highs and spotties off, when I got to within 50m or so of them, red and blues came on.

Then stayed on, and then they turned them off and kept going.

I don't see how people get done by a speed camera car, they're obvious when you see a new SUV on the side of the road and they always cycle through a few particular spots on a stretch of road.

Also fixed speed cameras don't ever move, you know where they are and which highways.

In some states they're even signed, you gotta be kidding me how that is a problem to you.

Pick your time and place boys.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I live in Victoria, which has more speed cameras combined than all the other states put together.

I speed everywhere, usually 10km/h over on the highways, the only time I came close to getting a fine was I was doing 125 in a 100 zone for around 20km, coming home from night school at around 10pm, with my high beams and spotlights going.

Saw a car in the distance coming towards me, turned my highs and spotties off, when I got to within 50m or so of them, red and blues came on.

Then stayed on, and then they turned them off and kept going.

I don't see how people get done by a speed camera car, they're obvious when you see a new SUV on the side of the road and they always cycle through a few particular spots on a stretch of road.

Also fixed speed cameras don't ever move, you know where they are and which highways.

In some states they're even signed, you gotta be kidding me how that is a problem to you.

In QLD they have very few fixed cameras but do have covert cameras which can be mounted in virtually any vehicle. I have see a trade ute, a VW Golf and a reasonably old Commodore wagon.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

In QLD they have very few fixed cameras but do have covert cameras which can be mounted in virtually any vehicle. I have see a trade ute, a VW Golf and a reasonably old Commodore wagon.

Ours are usually SUVs, and they have a bull bar on the front with what looks like one spotlight sticking out past the bullbar, and another similar looking light on the opposite end also spaced out, its obvious what it is.

Be sus of parked cars on the side of freeways.

[Sabantien]

Few weeks ago I was having dinner at a mate's, and one of the other guests was a cop. Conversation turned to speeding, asking if she catches people. She said no, you have to be specially trained, as well as be an a-hole. She recently got a speeding fine. Wasn't happy. But she also said you have to be going 8ks over before you get booked.

That might be the hand helds rather than the automated cameras.

At this point I've never received a speeding fine (although my nephew driving my Pathfinder managed two within an hour of each other, passing the same mobile speed camera he knows is always there), and I'm sure one time I was a couple ks over when I saw the radar gun; the speed limit was changing and I was still slowing down.

There's two things I've noticed on this forum. People don't like auto lights/wipers, because if you can't see it's raining or getting dark, why are you driving? But they also can't look out their windows and glance at the speedo every now and then. Maybe those auto features are a good thing.

[SSD-85]

I think it has been established that raising the fines is just QLD Govco's version of Oliver Twist.

If they were serious about using speed as a safety scapegoat, they'd just bump the fines up to stupid amounts & make a loss of license on 1km/h over.

/end thread.

[Tom Tucker]

Unfortunately, the only catalyst for change in this instance is a decent social uprising. The government needs to be sent a clear message from the electorate that citizens won't tolerate being treated like cash dispensers

[marty351]

Vexatious legislation.
Time to play cricket.
1984 was 31 years ago, now it's a reality.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Tom Tucker

Unfortunately, the only catalyst for change in this instance is a decent social uprising. The government needs to be sent a clear message from the electorate that citizens won't tolerate being treated like cash dispensers

The governments know us all too well. Aussies complain among themselves then the she’ll be right mate mentality kicks in and they never actually get around to forcing change.

The only change that happens here is if the media runs with it when they find an issue they believe will sell copy. It's easier to post a comment on the web at the bottom of a news article or click on a yes or no icon to a survey then to get off our *** and do something.

[b0son]

You cant force change in a two-party electoral system, when both parties offer the same crap.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Sabantien

There's two things I've noticed on this forum. People don't like auto lights/wipers, because if you can't see it's raining or getting dark, why are you driving? But they also can't look out their windows and glance at the speedo every now and then. Maybe those auto features are a good thing.

How long do you have to look away from the road to read your speedo to the accuracy of a few km's/hr? Think about it for a bit, or even better count it out the next time you are driving from the time you first look away from the road to the time you are focussed back on the road. You might be surprised. Now multiply that time by the number of times you speedo check every minute and multiply that by the number of minutes your average commute is. Don't forget you have to read you speedo to within a few k's and not just a rough reading because that is what the laws are demanding.

[Tom Tucker]

Originally Posted by b0son

You cant force change in a two-party electoral system, when both parties offer the same crap.

You possibly can if you're an independent who holds the balance of power...

You're right though. The irony with democracy is that coupled with layers of bureaucracy, a system that is supposed to be flexible and reactive, is in fact cumbersome, inefficient, and in my view, stagnant.

Can you imagine the laborious process of repealing legislation aimed at persecuting regular citizens for revenue raising purposes? That is assuming that one day the government actually wakes up to themselves. Or, as alluded to earlier, people can be bothered forcing them to cut the crap.

If I were to pick a single thing about Australia that makes me want to go elsewhere, it is the topic of this discussion.

People don't tolerate this crap elsewhere. Europeans largely revolted during the medieval and industrial eras. The Americans have 2nd amendment rights to take up arms against a tyrannical government...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

You cant force change in a two-party electoral system, when both parties offer the same crap.

Well get involved in the system, you can change things from the inside, lots of people all want to give their 2 cents on how the system sucks but no one wants to put effort into changing it because it means they have to get out of the armchair.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Tom Tucker

People don't tolerate this crap elsewhere. Europeans largely revolted during the medieval and industrial eras. The Americans have 2nd amendment rights to take up arms against a tyrannical government...

Wow, comparing the application of a 'driving above a posted limit' tax and the global uprising against a tyrannical theocracies and absolute monarchies where the majority of people were 'not really free' is a long bow.
First world problems guys!

Secondly, if enough people 'uprise' against fines in lieu of safety scenario we face then the politicians will listen and make changes. Despite what you enthusiasts think I'm of the opinion that the majority of your 'neighbours' either agree with the fines or don't think it affects them enough as they don't speed.

JP

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Well get involved in the system, you can change things from the inside, lots of people all want to give their 2 cents on how the system sucks but no one wants to put effort into changing it because it means they have to get out of the armchair.

The factional way in which the parties are run effectively maintains the status quo. Besides which, doesn't it make a mockery of the concept of democracy? Why do I have to become part of the system in order for the system to respond to the will of the people?

What we need is a system like they have in Switzerland.... Any citizen may challenge a law that has been passed by parliament. If that person is able to gather 50,000 signatures against the law within 100 days, a national vote has to be scheduled where voters decide by a simple majority of the voters whether to accept or reject the law

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by b0son

The factional way in which the parties are run effectively maintains the status quo. Besides which, doesn't it make a mockery of the concept of democracy? Why do I have to become part of the system in order for the system to respond to the will of the people?

What we need is a system like they have in Switzerland.... Any citizen may challenge a law that has been passed by parliament. If that person is able to gather 50,000 signatures against the law within 100 days, a national vote has to be scheduled where voters decide by a simple majority of the voters whether to accept or reject the law

I like the idea behind the swiss system, but the reality is bleak for any sucess. Small turnouts at the federal popular initiatives have lead to most of the circa 190 initiatives (since late 19th century) being voted down , and those that were sucessfull were pretty serious affairs with a double majority needed to win on the day.
And to be honest I cant see this topic gaining much ground. Im a car enthusiast with a race car and am pro speeding fines for those caught exceeding the posted limits, no matter how its dressed up.

JP

[Tom Tucker]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Wow, comparing the application of a 'driving above a posted limit' tax and the global uprising against a tyrannical theocracies and absolute monarchies where the majority of people were 'not really free' is a long bow.
First world problems guys!

Secondly, if enough people 'uprise' against fines in lieu of safety scenario we face then the politicians will listen and make changes. Despite what you enthusiasts think I'm of the opinion that the majority of your 'neighbours' either agree with the fines or don't think it affects them enough as they don't speed.

JP

I think it's a fair comparison. It's easy to say "if you don't break the law it shouldn't be a problem" but this is such a short sighted and fanciful argument that assumes all laws are fair and imposed for the greater good.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Tom Tucker

I think it's a fair comparison. It's easy to say "if you don't break the law it shouldn't be a problem" but this is such a short sighted and fanciful argument that assumes all laws are fair and imposed for the greater good.

far from a fair or even similar comparison. You wont be put to death for having a contrary opinion to the rulers. You aren't indebted to your landlord. You can vote, you can rouse support for your cause. You wont they did and many payed with their lives! no similarities
But I encourage you to do something other than blog about it.

JP

[aussie muscle]

so, where's my rego discount for going a whole year with no fines??????

???????????

they use the stick, but no carrot

Originally Posted by Maka

Is QLD's economy broke or something?

addicted to easy revenue, like cocaine.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

they use the stick, but no carrot

they use a carrot ... they jam it up your 4rse

[loony888]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

But, armed with this knowledge, your still not going to do or be able to do anything about it either?

JP

unfortunately not, no. individuals don't stand a chance.

But it's not a criticism aimed at any one person in particular, rather our overall "she'll be right" attitude and laid back way.the govt. knows damn well that while there may be the odd whine here and there it's an easy storm to ride out, because by and large our society is a go along to get along lot.

The europeans on the other hand are a little different, there is no way in hell the french or italians would sit back and let their government effectively thieve from them with lies, spin and manipulated statistics. there would be very large, very public well organised events that would convince the govt. their decision was misguided, it happens often, but that's how their society is.

[chamb0]

Originally Posted by loony888

unfortunately not, no. individuals don't stand a chance.

But it's not a criticism aimed at any one person in particular, rather our overall "she'll be right" attitude and laid back way.the govt. knows damn well that while there may be the odd whine here and there it's an easy storm to ride out, because by and large our society is a go along to get along lot.

The europeans on the other hand are a little different, there is no way in hell the french or italians would sit back and let their government effectively thieve from them with lies, spin and manipulated statistics. there would be very large, very public well organised events that would convince the govt. their decision was misguided, it happens often, but that's how their society is.

Italy is probably not a great example to use. There's persistent major problems with corruption by political parties, the public service, bribery and links with organised crime, which costs them €60 billion per year...

http://www.transparency.org/country#ITA