The People's Cart company in the news again

[Sprintey]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/can...ist=beforebell

Interesting the comment about VAG 'accounting and governance risk' > 80% of companies in Western Europe. It's an absolute leader in size and technology, surely this is not so? Article asks questions of its corporate culture, I wonder how that fits in with the way VAG dealt with Australian DSG/twincharger/stalling issues?

Disclosure: I quite like their restrained styling, packaging, marketing and good selection of product throughout the mainstream and niches.

[b0son]

May as well rename the company Hindenburg...

[mik]

Just reading another article , Skoda and Audi are getting a mention now, i suppose now every single car they have something to do with will be tested now ?

[Sox]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

11 million soot chuckers to be recalled Worldwide now

Can't come soon enough.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Sox

Can't come soon enough.

What about trucks, trains and everything else that runs on diesel????

[Mowdit]

And don't forget how much energy and products that go into making petrol.
Diesel is a low refined fuel, where as petrol is highly refined.
Sure a Prius is good until you look at what went into making it, petrol may have less emissions but causes more in the making than diesel.

[new2ford]

http://www.afr.com/it-pro/volkswagen...0150922-gjsptg

http://www.smh.com.au/business/volks...22-gjs698.html

Originally Posted by mik

Just reading another article , Skoda and Audi are getting a mention now, i suppose now every single car they have something to do with will be tested now ?

Being a member of the VAG group has its upsides and downsides.

I don't know why Skoda Australia salesmen keep on associating with VW and "German technology" in their sales push, I'd be trying to dissociate like hell and emphasising the qualities of the Czech brand that Australians haven't yet cottoned onto.

Ironically, VW started with a plagiarised Czech design for which they had to pay compensation after the war. That seemed to set a pattern of corporate behaviour ....

It will be interesting to see whether Seat, Audi and Skoda have been forced to participate in this little deceit. I suspect not in the case of Seat and Skoda as they aren't in the North American market. Audi is though.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Article asks questions of its corporate culture, I wonder how that fits in with the way VAG dealt with Australian DSG/twincharger/stalling issues?

Like I said above - it starts in the 1930s.

I remember when the Golf first came out in the 1970s seeing a journo interviewing a VW rep on TV and the VW guy went on about how this FWD car with transverse engine was a world first, invented by VW etc, wilfully ignoring the BMC Mini, which started it all about 15 years earlier.

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Disclosure: I quite like their restrained styling, packaging, marketing and good selection of product throughout the mainstream and niches.

With the possible exception of Passat and Touereg, VWs are single people's cars. Audi makes the luxury cars and Skoda makes the (reliable, quality) family cars.

I was in the local VW/Skoda yard yesterday helping my daughter look at cars and we found a Golf and Octavia parked alongside each other. It's hard to believe they're supposed to be on the same standard platform. The Octavia simply walks all over the Golf in terms of size, space and practicality. I guess single people go for the Golf as a good drive - but Octavia is that too.

I wouldn't touch a VW with a long pole, especially after that nasty little show avoiding the DSG issue. That was a candidate for the Arthur Daley Motors award.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

The old political foes are at it again.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...iggest-mistake

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I am wondering what evidence the US EPA has to make such claims.

I think it is beyond reasonable doubt that they have the evidence of the software "fix" in place, given that it led to the express admission by VW.

What I wonder is who was behind the initial real world tests in the first place, and who instigated and funded them. Would not be surprised if it was another automotive competitor based in.....the USA????

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...iggest-mistake

Love this comment!

Ze Germanz should have learned from GM; it's okay to kill your customers, it is not okay to increase carbon emissions by 0.0000136%.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

And don't forget how much energy and products that go into making petrol.
Diesel is a low refined fuel, where as petrol is highly refined.
Sure a Prius is good until you look at what went into making it, petrol may have less emissions but causes more in the making than diesel.

Not a refinery expert myself, but the making of the two, go hand in hand with each other. I dont think there is a refinery in the world, that makes 100% deisel, or 100% petrol (not even sure if it is possible from a barrel of oil, and if you did do it, then i guess you would thrown out a great deal of the byproduct). When they thrown 100 litres of crude into a refinery, they tend to get a certain percentage of petrol from it, a certain percentage of deisel, and a certain percentage of other things. Below is a list of how a barrel is commonly broken down

Finished Motor Gasoline 51.4%
Distillate Fuel Oil 15.3%
Jet Fuel 12.3%
Still Gas 5.4%
Marketable Coke 5.0%
Residual Fuel Oil 3.3%
Liquefied Refinery Gas 2.8%
Asphalt and Road Oil 1.7%
Other Refined Products 1.5%
Lubricants 0.9%

In order to make deisel, they have to refine the petrol more, otherwise you would have to pay 6 times more for your deisel, if they couldnt sell the petrol and other stuff.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by csv8

What about trucks, trains and everything else that runs on diesel????

What about em'?

[Sprintey]

This is going to be a massive boost toward petrol hybrid, and probably more so electric. (To which VAG should do quite well if you read their news.) Maybe a watershed moment, as someone on a car advice comment said:
"...the reality is that the emission requirement rate is exceeding the rate at which technological advancements in engine management can keep up."

I reckon I've come a full about-face on the issue this year, to the extent that the most exciting auto thing I'm dreaming of is an inexpensive and good home solar battery technology to augment my rooftop setup and end grid reliance; then a desirable, fun and inexpensive EV to be produced. Zero emissions, zero paying the fuel station for commuting each week. Win win. Zero power bills too. Win win win.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by csv8

What about trucks, trains and everything else that runs on diesel????

They should get a free-pass to continue to operate for some time, as they are essential?

If you look at what commercial ships burn, and the emissions in very busy shipping lanes, it makes a mockery of all the clean air legislation.

[Franco Cozzo]

"...the reality is that the emission requirement rate is exceeding the rate at which technological advancements in engine management can keep up."

Or that manufacturers just want to put out ****** cheap bandaid solutions to the problem like DPF.

DPF on its own seems to be a problem, but DPF with SCR seems to be a much better solution, the DPF doesn't clog up as quick and they make more power/torque.

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Finished Motor Gasoline 51.4%
Distillate Fuel Oil 15.3%
Jet Fuel 12.3%
Still Gas 5.4%
Marketable Coke 5.0%
Residual Fuel Oil 3.3%
Liquefied Refinery Gas 2.8%
Asphalt and Road Oil 1.7%
Other Refined Products 1.5%
Lubricants 0.9%

Whilst I don't drink a lot of Coke myself, that's still a what the?! Coke comes from oil.. that's comforting!

[sprintman1]

Das Awful

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by DBourne

Whilst I don't drink a lot of Coke myself, that's still a what the?! Coke comes from oil.. that's comforting!

With some of the comments you see on here, it had me wondering, but i will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are joking. You dont think the dark brown color of coke comes from food additives do you. After all its no coincidence that petrol cans and coke cans are both colored red, its US legislation that anything carrying gasoline products is sold in a red colored container.

[mik]

Originally Posted by csv8

What about trucks, trains and everything else that runs on diesel????

Sprintey mentioned ships, a while ago i think it was a video i saw mentioned that 16 biggest cargo ships/bulk carriers , use the cheapest , dirtiest nasty diesel they can get to keep running cost down and profit up , and they put more sulfur into the air than all the cars on the planet.

they could power truck and trains and buses by an alternative method , but how much will it cost, and not just for the transport operators, but for the recipient that gets the bill at the end who receives the goods and services ?

[Sprintey]

Yeah bingo Mik, I was thinking of that report. The amount of hypocrisy regarding emissions and climate does my head in. "Developed world, you can't! China, even though you are the world's workshop: Go For It! Cars, you are very naughty. Ships, what a fine way to recycle all that sump oil, keep burning it! Australia, you should be very guilty, there's 23 million of you and 1.5% of blah blah blah. Chindia - we don't mind if you pollute. Brazil, keep on truckin' burning those rainforests. Onya Indonesia, the Singaporeans don't need to see or breathe.... Etc..."

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

With some of the comments you see on here, it had me wondering, but i will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are joking. You dont think the dark brown color of coke comes from food additives do you. After all its no coincidence that petrol cans and coke cans are both colored red, its US legislation that anything carrying gasoline products is sold in a red colored container.

Na mate, I'm genuinely ignorant of it What's the phrase, better to be silent and thought to be a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt..

Oops..

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by mik

they could power truck and trains and buses by an alternative method , but how much will it cost, and not just for the transport operators, but for the recipient that gets the bill at the end who receives the goods and services ?

Trucks are the biggest issue. Trains and trams have been powered by electricity to various degrees for some 130 years and those powered by diesel are a small component in the overall picture. Electric powering of buses (either wired or autonomous) is now well underway with extensive conversion of urban fleets to come in the next decade.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Or that manufacturers just want to put out ****** cheap bandaid solutions to the problem like DPF.

DPF on its own seems to be a problem, but DPF with SCR seems to be a much better solution, the DPF doesn't clog up as quick and they make more power/torque.

Yeah but they are completely unrelated.
SCR neutralises the NOx and DPF captures the particulate matter.

[BradEL]

Serves them right I say, I hope the Volkswagen group are hit with the full 20 odd billion fine, it will teach them and other automakers not to be dirty misleading cheats.

[Mowdit]

I wonder how they did it
Not like a button on the dash "emissions test "
So each time the car is running, with hand brake on and no person detected in drivers seat and the computer goes "oh, this could be an emissions test, better implement reduced injection rate and filter"
Would be interesting to know

Earlier, aka crude distillation, (a catalyst is added to complete the chain (like dna strand) to get more out of it) diesel is taken out at a relatively early stage, the higher the octane = more processing (then it becomes dry and lubricant additives need to be added).
Diesel is much "cleaner" than days of old and with reduced sulpher.
My simple understanding

[Brazen]

Diesel is silly in passenger cars anyway with all the heavy, complex and expensive emission gear, leave diesel to trucks.

[mik]

Just listening to the ABC news, the CEO of VW has quit, he didn't know about the tricky emissions software he says, but took. responsibility for it anyway.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by mik

Just listening to the ABC news, the CEO of VW has quit, he didn't know about the tricky emissions software he says, but took. responsibility for it anyway.

Volkswagen chief executive Martin Winterkorn has resigned over a pollution cheating scandal that has sparked a US criminal investigation and worldwide legal action with unfathomable financial consequences for the auto giant.

'I am shocked by the events of the past few days. Above all, I am stunned that misconduct on such a scale was possible in the Volkswagen Group,' Winterkorn said on Wednesday in a statement issued by the carmaker.

'Volkswagen needs a fresh start - also in terms of personnel. I am clearing the way for this fresh start with my resignation.'

The stock market barely flinched at the news.

Following a two-day free fall that had axed 35 per cent - or 25 billion euros ($A39.26 billion) - off the company's market value on Monday and Tuesday, the shares had bounced back on Wednesday and closed up 5.19 per cent after Winterkorn's announcement.

Even if the haemorrhage on the markets may have abated, Volkswagen, the world's largest auto manufacturer by sales in the first half of this year, still faces a growing tangle of legal threats after it admitted that as many as 11 million of its diesel cars worldwide are equipped with software capable of fooling official pollution tests.

In addition to investigations from France to South Korea, public prosecutors in Germany also said they were examining information and evaluating legal suits already filed against the company by a number of private individuals to decide whether to launch a full criminal inquiry against those responsible at VW.

A day after Winterkorn had offered his 'deepest apologies', the 68-year-old said he accepted his 'responsibility for the irregularities that have been found in diesel engines'.

But he also insisted: 'I am not aware of any wrongdoing on my part.'

His widely predicted departure came after a meeting of the supervisory board's six-member steering committee in Wolfsburg.

A new chief executive is to be named on Friday, and other personnel changes were expected, the board said.

According to the US authorities, VW has admitted that it equipped about 482,000 cars in the United States with sophisticated software that covertly turns off pollution controls when the car is being driven.

It turns them on only when it detects that the vehicle is undergoing an emissions test.

With the so-called 'defeat device' deactivated, the car can spew pollutant gases into the air, including nitrogen oxide in amounts as much as 40 times higher than emissions standards, said the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

The EPA, which announced the allegations Friday along with California state authorities, is conducting an investigation that could lead to fines amounting to a maximum of more than $US18 billion ($A25.40 billion).

The US Department of Justice has also launched a criminal inquiry led by its environment and natural resources division, a source told AFP, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The California Air Resources Board, too, is investigating Volkswagen's pollution violations.

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman said he had launched his own probe of Volkswagen and would work on it with prosecutors from other states across the United States.

http://www.skynews.com.au/business/b...dal-grows.html

[new2ford]

In separate news:

The Volkswagen diesel emission scandal over illegal software cheating emission tests is likely to hit Czech drivers as well. The Czech carmaker Škoda has confirmed that the device was fitted into some of its models, namely the Fabia, Roomster, Octavia and Superb manufactured between from 2009 until 2013. A spokesman for Skoda said the company was currently assessing the number of cars affected. The US Environmental Protection Agency said on Friday that Volkswagen had installed the illegal software to allow its diesel cars to produce up to 40 times more pollution than allowed. The US government has ordered VW to recall nearly 500,000 VW and Audi cars produced since 2009.

This is a significant development as Skoda isn't in the USA market. This means that VAG group (Seat, Skoda, VW, Audi) diesel vehicles worldwide will be implicated in this - it wasn't just done for the USA market.

It's interesting though that Skoda stopped it in 2013. Company ethics finally overcame orders from above?