Car sold as 'new' now showing signs of paint\body repair

[coolozzieguy]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Are you planning on buying it when the lease is up, if no then just forget it and move on.

If yes then chase it as a paint defect through warranty but nothing more.

Hi Magpie,

Yes, I was intending and looking forward to purchasing the car at the end of the 5 years. At the very least, my lease company allows you to continue to make finance repayments for another 2 years or so until the CBP (Crippling Balloon Payment) is finalised.
There seems to be lots of to-ing and fro-ing about Ford making a successor to the Fiesta ST. I really hope they do, they are a cracker of a car, and best bang-for-buck of the hatches. The only car that comes close is the Polo GTI, and at the time, they didn't do a manual, and many reviewers liked it, but reckoned it was not as sharp or involving as the ST. Also, lots of the Euro hot and warm hatches (the affordable ones) are slowly migrating to DumbShiftGearbox only. Ford are clinging to a manual, especially with the Focus RS and so forth. I am not anti automatics; I just prefer manuals.

[coolozzieguy]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Some points to try and help...

First thing you need to do is try and establish where the paint repair was carried out, this will determine who really needs to step up to help you or who you need to chase.

Call the Ford CRC 13 Ford, give them your details and ask if they can find out if there was any in plant paint repairs (it may take a little while to get this info from overseas). If yes then I am sure Ford will assist. If no then you would have to presume it was done in the dealership (makes sense if it took so long to PD car, remember dealers want to get your $$$ as soon as possible, so they will not delay unless there is a problem). Any paint defect should have been noted at PD if not Ford assume the vehicle is ok. Defects like this that occur after the fact would not be deemed in warranty unless it was proven to be done in plant, especially if you can see tape lines. You can try and ask Ford CRC to get a Ford Representative out to inspect your faults and they may be able to get the truth from the dealer to see if it was done in PD?

If there was any incident in the dealer premises, there would have to be records on repair orders for the panel shop etc as payment to the panel shop etc would be recorded against this vehicle. Not that you would see any of these.

Now if you need to approach the dealer, I would now go to the Dealer Principal (DP) since you have already tried Sales Managers etc. Tell him/her and or show the concerns. If they are not willing to help, take the next step and see Department of Fair Trading/VCAT. If they are hiding this paper work you can supina these documents if it goes to tribunal.

Maybe a back door to finding your answer, try and approach one of the people in PD discretly (or have some one do it for you) and see what panel shop they use for their repairs. Then go to that panel shop and see if they have any records of fixing your vehicle.

You really need to establish where the paint repair was carried out before you can proceed.

Hi GTLEGEND,

Thanks for the thorough post. This also looks like a reasonable path to take should things get heated.

Thanks again for the ideas.

[coolozzieguy]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Performance blue is a euro thing it was changed to spirit blue when the mk3 ST and fiesta ST was released there is a slight difference in the 2. Performance blue was on the mk2 ST and ST150 aswell along with Focus RS.
Along with Colorado red it was changed to race red but iirc it's the same colour.

Thanks for clearing that up DJM83.
Your posts and knowledge on all things EuroFord have been helpful over the years.
Are you still driving what is in your profile?

[coolozzieguy]

Originally Posted by falconhell74

If you are concerned about it report to the leasing company that their is issues with the paint and let them deal with it as it is technically still their car , they have more power behind them than you do and can kick up a bigger fuss.

Hi Falconhell74,

Yes, also sounds like a good idea. I was going to do this as a second option.

Whilst people are saying 'won't make a difference at trade in, people won't notice, no one cares, etc' I imagine that if the clear starts peeling during my lease period the lease company will care. I would be surprised if they didn't. Peeling clear would surely be obvious even to the most un-car person.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by coolozzieguy

Thanks for clearing that up DJM83.
Your posts and knowledge on all things EuroFord have been helpful over the years.
Are you still driving what is in your profile?

No worries mate. My knowledge comes from hanging with the right people and my own research aswell.
Yeah still have my focus ST

[coolozzieguy]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

...three times it went back to get painted before he finally was satisfied. IMO its just not worth it.
the major difference he plans on keeping his car for a long time.

Hi Bevsta007,

Yes, this is why I was cautious about the 'solidified drip' to the lower of the door. When I saw this flaw, I then inspected the car very closely and couldn't find anything at that stage. This was in the first month or so.

As you say, sometimes it is not worth it, however I do intend (at the moment) on keeping the car as mentioned above.

[kazawaki]

My advise dont mention repairs to dealer try under warranty,if they come back and say its been repaired then you can go from there as in well dealer or ford must have repaired it.If they did they have then opened the door to question that they are the culprits.good luck when it comes to paint or decals my score rate is ford 2 me zero.On my brothers new car clear lifting on bonnet ford 1 Brother 0 they just dont seem to back up anything to do with paint.I also know of some one with an R spec and ford damaged the paint whilst they had it and it took a number of re paints until they got it sort of right and a lot of arguing in the middle.What ford just dont get or want to get is happy customers means repeat business and that means money and jobs for them.By the time they finally get this code of business it will be too late if it is not already.Good luck i have a feeling you will need it.

[snowcone]

I had a similar thing happen with my first "company car".
I was notified that I was to receive a nice brand new EA Series II from Brad Garlick Ford in Sydney so I arranged a lift from Newcastle to pick it up.
I drove it home and drooled over it for a week before i noticed some paint peeling off inside the petrol hatch. Upon closer inspection I found overspray inside the guards and the some areas of the rear quarter just didn't look right.
I spoke to the lease company and they told me to get a NRMA report done on the car which revealed a rather poor repair job. This report went back to Ford and they authorised Klosters in Newcastle to repair and respray the quarter.
Obviously this car had been damaged in transport to or at Brad Garlicks and their repairers had done a crap job.

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by snowcone

I had a similar thing happen with my first "company car".
I was notified that I was to receive a nice brand new EA Series II from Brad Garlick Ford in Sydney so I arranged a lift from Newcastle to pick it up.
I drove it home and drooled over it for a week before i noticed some paint peeling off inside the petrol hatch. Upon closer inspection I found overspray inside the guards and the some areas of the rear quarter just didn't look right.
I spoke to the lease company and they told me to get a NRMA report done on the car which revealed a rather poor repair job. This report went back to Ford and they authorised Klosters in Newcastle to repair and respray the quarter.
Obviously this car had been damaged in transport to or at Brad Garlicks and their repairers had done a crap job.

This is fair and makes sense. You noticed the issue after only one week.
Problem with the OP's issue is that it has been nearly 2yrs since he first collected the car.

[ford12]

Mate.

If the car is still under warranty you need to just not give up and do not take no for an answer. They will do anything they can to make it a big head ach for you in the hope that you will just go away. ( ford and the dealer will do this )

You need to contact the dealer 1st and demand that it is fixed.

If you have no joy with this then you contact ford directly.

You just have to not take no for an answer and keep on there backs.

Make it a head ach for them not you.

Do not take no for an answer and you will get it fixed.

Once again ill say do not take no for an answer.

This is similar to what I went thru so im talking from experience.

[coolozzieguy]

Originally Posted by ford12

Mate.

If the car is still under warranty you need to just not give up and do not take no for an answer. They will do anything they can to make it a big head ach for you in the hope that you will just go away. ( ford and the dealer will do this )

You need to contact the dealer 1st and demand that it is fixed.

If you have no joy with this then you contact ford directly.

You just have to not take no for an answer and keep on there backs.

Make it a head ach for them not you.

Do not take no for an answer and you will get it fixed.

Once again ill say do not take no for an answer.

This is similar to what I went thru so im talking from experience.

Hi ford12,

Yep, thanks for the advice.

I always try to make sales people work for their money and be accountable. When I approached my leasing company, they said 'we can source a car for you for no extra cost, or you can source your own.' I asked them to source the vehicle specifically so I would not have to go through the dramas of car dealers. They were more than happy to do the legwork, when I gave them a spec and model and colour. Other than one issue where they stuffed up a reimbursement for my car insurance, they have been excellent to deal with for the issues that have come up. Always prompt to answer questions, Melbourne based call centre, great user portal, etc.

[coolozzieguy]

Hi All,

I'd like to thank those that offered me some advice, via their own personal experiences or not.

I now have some different ideas\angles to take in hoping to get it resolved. Basically I will approach the dealer I got the car from via email about the paint defects themselves showing up, and take it from there.

As someone mentioned, there is the ability to have the lease company assist me if needed.

I will try to keep you all informed on how I go via this thread.

Wish me some luck.

Thanks again.

[NTF6]

It sounds like you have a number of choices based on what you would like the outcome to be.

If you are feeling ripped off and lied to for being sold a repaired car when you were told that you were buying a new car AND you now want that car replaced then get some professional quotes (and pay for them) that indicate the car is repaired. Then get a hold of Ford CRC and let the battle begin.

If you don't want the car replaced and just now want it to be fixed to an acceptable standard then go down the road of a warranty claim on repairing the paint.

If you don't want either and you just want someone to own up to the fact you were lied too then front them hard (they sound like ******* anyway) with all the info in your first post, show them your evidence and get them to prove that it wasn't repaired.

[The Yeti]

based on the fact you had seen the car and it then took some time to have it PD'd and ready + the attitude of the sales man, I'd hazard a guess the rep new all about the damage and repair, and chose not to disclose it.

Experience with dealers and these matters tells me it will be an up hill battle, and I would agree with the poster who said work through your leasing company they can take it up with the dealer.

I assume your lease will have strict return condition clauses so its in your best interest to notify them of this now sort of thing.

You would also like to assume that like many insurance repairs there is a life time warranty on the repair and these faults now becoming apparent should be repaired under that.

lets face it the faults your describing don't sound like fair ware and tare to me

[xr8territory]

I purchased a new XR8 ute in 98. Signed up and paid the deposit before I had even seen one.
Took ages to deliver so I started to drop in daily and annoy the salesman in a bid to hurry things up. I called in one day and it was in the carpark on a truck. Dent on bootlid. I was told it was caused in transit and it would be repaired professionally and would not affect warrenty etc...
1 week later I took delivery. It had 180kms on the clock but ' every now and then Tickford pick vehicles for quality control and they do some extra testing km's in them' so I was told. I was excited, beleived their crap story and drove to my friends panel shop and we stood and marvelled at the beautiful beast before us, until....we had a good look. A bit of buffing compound here, overspray there, scratched lugs on the door handle screws inside and then the suttle difference in panel colour. The driver side door and front gaurd as well as the front bumper had been rerpaired/repainted, drivers door trim had been removed so obvious repair to drivers door. I called Fair Trading and asked them for advice. They said to refuse delivery. I rang the Ford dealer and told him I would be immediately returning the vehicle, which I did.
When I arrived at the dealer they tried to calmly talk the whole thing down, the damage, the extra km's etc etc.
They asked me to keep the vehicle until the issue could be resolved. I flogged it mercilessly with great anger knowing I was not keeping it. Several days later I met with an executive from Ford, a paint engineer and the Dealer. They all explained the vehicle was fine, the new paint thickness was within tolerance etc etc. I was not getting a replacement ute. I told them this was the only solution.
I rang the dealer principal every couple of hours.
I was called to another meeting with the dealer early one morning. I was then told that the Ute was in fact a demonstrator and a customer pranged it whilst on a test drive. I then said well ***** Y*%, get me a new Ute. I threatened to go the whole hog and tell newspaper TV, anyone who would listen.
I had a new ute a few weeks later.

I think you will have a difficult task getting your car resprayed. The time frame is an issue and if the 'repair' is of a standard they deem acceptable, you have no chance. And as someone mentioned, the repair could be worse.

[Mercury Bullet]

I agree, take it up with the lease company.

I leased an HSV and never once had a problem with the dealer, everything was fixed without question, some things were even fixed without me requesting it.

Leasing companies have enormous bargaining power with the dealers/companies.
Don't underestimate that.

And I agree with others, you were too soft with the salesman initially. No way would I stand for being treated like that after signing up for a purchase as expensive as a car. I have never waited longer than 2 days from signing the paperwork to having the car at home.
If a salesman ever got short with me on the phone I would promptly tell him to enjoy selling the car to the next punter who walked in, in a months time.
Then go in and get my deposit back...pronto!
Thankfully I have never dealt with a bad new car salesman.

[ebv8]

you would be surprised the amount of new new cars that go to the panel beater after the young car washer backs a new car into another new car.

[Chopped]

New cars being touched up / repaired before they are sold is not uncommon at all. And that applies to every brand.

[GTLEGEND]

Originally Posted by Chopped

New cars being touched up / repaired before they are sold is not uncommon at all. And that applies to every brand.

True and that's fine, but the repair needs to be of acceptable quality and should last as long as the factory paint. If its repaired and there are no further issues, not a problem, but if not they need to be accountable. If it was done in plant, up to manufacture to make good, but if its done in dealer, then it should be recorded and dealt with accordingly.

[Cav]

Well I done had a read of all the comments and I wonder what I would do in the same circumstances.

First thing is to put aside the history of the purchase for a moment and concentrate on the now.

You need to go to the Ford dealer and query them about the paint standard on your car.

They will do one of two things: say there has been a repair, or that there is nothing wrong with the car.

You need to have a strategy to deal with either outcome.

If the dealer says there has been a repair.
Express surprise to the dealer and advise that the car has not been repaired since you have owned the car (no need to speculate). If he does not offer to repair the car under warranty, then you need to work out your next move. If it was I, I would simply ask the dealer if it can be repaired under warranty.

He will respond with a yes (problem looks to be on its way to being solved) or a no.

This now leads us to a situation where the dealer will not repair the car under warranty.

You now need to develop a strategy for getting your car repaired at Ford's expense.

1) Make notes of your conversations with Ford people - time dates, what was discussed and the outcome, or lack thereof.

2) Obtain an assessment of the paint. This could be through a motoring organisation, or a local panel shop. You should be willing to pay for a report.

3) Contact the dealer again. The expert paint report shows that the dealer was wrong in that the paint was not OK in the first place. Complete a statutory declaration that the vehicle has not been damaged/repaired by you.

4) This suggests that the car was repaired prior to your taking delivery and as such you are requesting the dealer to repair the car and to refund you the cost of the paint report (and other charges you have incurred) to prove that they were wrong and you were right.

5) If the dealer still won't budge then it goes to Ford and you submit your case to them.

6) If Ford will not come to the party, write to the Saturday paper in your state where they have a motoring section and ask for their assistance in solving your problem. Someone like Paul Gover's Roadside Assist

This is what I would do. It doesn't need to be confrontational, or threatening them with consumer affairs or your lawyer. You simply request the dealer to fix your car, note his response and take the next appropriate action.

[coolozzieguy]

Hi All,

Sit-Rep:

After making a booking and receiving two conflicting 'confirmation' times, chasing the selling dealer via phone and email multiple times, I eventually got a time where I would bring the car down for an 'inspection'. Not a good start.

Took the car down at 8am one morning, spoke with service rep. Showed them the multiple issues, service rep said 'leave car with us, we will have a further look'. Said to them to call me when it's ready to be picked up. They said it would be ready by noon at the latest and will call then, if not earlier.

It's now about 4pm and haven't heard a thing. Call dealer, get run-around on the phone, passed to various people, eventually get to service rep. He gives apologies for the no call and phone run around, advises car is ready to be picked up and we need to chat about it first. I leave and workmate drops me off at dealer (we work in Cranbourne and workmate lives in Edithvale).

Arrive at dealer. Car is in exactly the place I left it when dropped off (more on this later). Go inside, speak to service rep. He asks that we go outside to look at car. He explains to me that the car appears to have been in a crash, and has crash repair damage. He explains that the car has been resprayed, on the LHS, it doesn't seem to have been done well, and the flaws I pointed out are caused by that... BUT... "...so the damage to the paint we have found is not bad enough for a warranty repair."

I explain to him, and make a frank (but not shouty) statement that this is ridiculous, as the car was sold to me new, wasn't a demo, etc. I went through with him again the different flaws, how they stand out and are getting worse, the two shades of blue my car now is slowly turning, and how they will get worse in the coming years. I then asked "so how bad must a car be for it to get warranty repaired?" He couldn't answer, but did say he spoke to the service manager and the salesman that sold me the car, and passed on my 'concerns'.

Let me make it clear that this service rep was very courteous, didn't blame me, shout at me or try to accuse me of lying, saying I crashed it myself, etc. Whilst he didn't agree or disagree with my arguments, his tone of voice and body language during our 'discussion' and when he told me I should "Feel free to take it up with Ford or the dealership" says he agreed with me but was hamstrung by the dealer. I get the keys from him, ask to see some paper work where he tells me words to the effect of "Ah, there wasn't any written up by the team." Hmm. I say my goodbyes, he goes inside, I go to my car.

When I open the door, I notice that the 'protection paper' they put in the foot well doesn't have even a crinkle on it. No boot marks, no nothing. Did they even look at it FFS? Who knows. Wasn't in the mood for their BS anymore as I had a rough day at work, it was frezzing cold and I had a raging cold. The next day I left for a three day conference with work so couldn't do more with it.

Upon returning home I contacted the lease company by email with my scenario. A week later I got a reply, and someone who is assisting me with it. The rep seemed quite annoyed at how I have been treated by the dealer, and the tone of his voice alluded to me they have had issues with this dealer before, even though he never said it. He asked me to log a complaint with Ford CRC, and asked I give them explicit permission for him to act on my behalf, as Ford CRC seem to throw the 'privacy' card at salary packaging companies when they try to go in to bat for a customer. I have passed onto him pictures, the report from the panel beater\car restorer, the case ID I got from Ford CRC, and the run-around I got from the selling dealer for the inspection. (I did eventually get a 'report' on a service job sheet after emailing them about it). Whilst he didn't make any promises, and even said that to me, he did mention they have had success for customers in the past when dealing with these sorts of issues, even if it did take some time.

Wish me luck.

[Brazen]

I doubt the salesperson would even have know. Damage repair can happen at a few places - in the factory itself if it doesn't pass QA, at the ports for transit damage or at the dealer.

As an aside a 5 year lease? I didn't think it would be worth it with the way leases structure the residuals?

[coolozzieguy]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I doubt the salesperson would even have know. Damage repair can happen at a few places - in the factory itself if it doesn't pass QA, at the ports for transit damage or at the dealer.

As an aside a 5 year lease? I didn't think it would be worth it with the way leases structure the residuals?

Hi Brazen,

Yes, I am aware the salesman may not have known about the damage. Agreed on that one, as it could have happened in Germany at the factory, in transit to the boat, on the boat in transit, on the docks here, etc. As I have mentioned many times before, I am not blaming anyone, I just want it fixed, ALA my post about my freezer.

As for the cars value, Fiesta STs seem to hold their value well, however as this paint is slowly getting worse it will stand out to someone who more than just kicks the tyres and goes 'yep its a car'.

[bmwe46]

I do understand how to feel.. new car, it should be new and not damaged.

I worked for a big car transporter once, road and rail, they received a lot of cars from the wharf for distribution as well.

There was so many damaged cars, some would arrive with no oil in the engine whatsoever (this is aus assembled stuff not just imports). Also the batteries were flat on probably 1% of all the cars that arrived so there was a jump pack on a trolley available.

No matter what state the vehicles were in they had to come off that train (or be pushed onto it somehow).

Dealers should let you view the car prior to final signature on delivery, they always have the car under cover though, and I ask them to move it out into the sun.

Maybe you can clarify the period of time that the car has paint defect warranty, and if you are covered keep trying different dealers until you find one that will honour it. I drive a Nissan 2000km once to get a new sat-nav, they were the nearest dealer to me that would honour the warranty and the nullabour is an easy drive.

Good luck!!

[FG50T]

Having both sold and bought a few private cars independent vehicle checks are becoming more of a common thing. Most inspectors use a paint thickness checker on every panel and report it to the prospective buyer if there's inconsistencies. I nearly bought a VE GTS that had one side and the roof re-painted. Could be the difference between you selling your car or not! I'd chase it.

[OzriderXR8]

From what I've seen over the years a factory damage repair will be virtually perfect. The dealers on the other hand will do what they need to to get it out the door.

We've all heard the stories from mates that are mechanics etc about cars getting damaged and repaired without the owner ever knowing.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by OzriderXR8

From what I've seen over the years a factory damage repair will be virtually perfect. The dealers on the other hand will do what they need to to get it out the door.

We've all heard the stories from mates that are mechanics etc about cars getting damaged and repaired without the owner ever knowing.

We've had to repair many a car from new, undelivered, to used for a couple of dealers and the instructions were always different, depending on who was paying for it.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by bmwe46

Dealers should let you view the car prior to final signature on delivery, they always have the car under cover though, and I ask them to move it out into the sun.

Based on experience the first time I bought a new car over 30 years ago where there was a mechanical problem and had to drive my old car home that night, I always check the car over thoroughly, even checking the motor running and in gear, before going in to hand my money over.

If I'm spending thousands of dollars on something, I'd like to look at it first and check it over. One car I bought they had to fix up the detailing twice before I accepted it, another they had to get another car built for me as an option fitted wasn't factory as ordered, and they couldn't fit it on a completed car due to a different wiring harness that needed fitting during build.

Its a lot more difficult to get anything rectified once the dealer has your money.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by coolozzieguy

Hi Brazen,

Yes, I am aware the salesman may not have known about the damage. Agreed on that one, as it could have happened in Germany at the factory, in transit to the boat, on the boat in transit, on the docks here, etc. As I have mentioned many times before, I am not blaming anyone, I just want it fixed, ALA my post about my freezer.

As for the cars value, Fiesta STs seem to hold their value well, however as this paint is slowly getting worse it will stand out to someone who more than just kicks the tyres and goes 'yep its a car'.

Judging by the aggressive attitude of the salesman, the three week pre delivery, and hiding it wet in a dimly lit warehouse so you wouldn't pick up on it, I think the salesman and the dealer principle new all about it. A good lesson for all of us to check a new car purchase out thoroughly before signing off on it. And preferably during the day with good light. Good luck with it.

[dutchie393]

i know you're talking new cars, but i started getting suss about any car yards when i took a look at a BF advertised with only 30k on the clock at premium price, yet wear and tear was showing everywhere for anyone who was actually looking.