Autonomous cars &a your thoughts?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Fact.......people use their car for less than 5% of the day

Maybe in the City

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Maybe in the City

Dont think the future will be stopping and waiting for the bush Im afraid

[mike_nofx]

I'd happily have an autonomous car for the work commute.

While I do enjoy driving for pleasure (and i really do) I could happily go without the 100km trip each way in which I'm forced to follow people on the freeway in the right lane doing 10 under, then to come into Sydney stop/start traffic. Commuting is rarely a driving pleasure for me personally, I'd rather sleep in the car or watch a movie, or have a few drinks on the way home.

Though I don't want to lose my outside of work hours personal car driving option.

[Bent8]

I think it will be difficult enough programming these driver-less cars to safely get their passengers to their destinations... but what would happen in a situation where a professional hacker takes control, locks the doors and ditches it in a lake just for fun ?

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to watch Idiocracy again.........

[Terror_Tree]

[Raptor]

You know how flying cars have been coming for the last 50 years or so,and still aren't a reality.

I think autonomous cars will have a similar gestation period.

This isn't anywhere near as simple as some people seem to think.







.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Terror_Tree

If the car can drop me at the pub, and pick me up when I have had a skinfull I might be interested then

G'day , Our pollies will have fun with that one..Methinks that autonomous or not the law makers will have a cow deciding if the owner is 'legally' in charge of the driver less chariot if he or she has had a skin full. Probably not dis-similar to being pulled by a car with pretty lights containing the boys and girls in blue and they find the young bloke on his L 2's obeying every road rule known to man with the old boy tanked to the eyeballs in the passenger seat being driven home to face the music from the missus. "You're still booked sunshine "
It'd probably need a new rule or two adopted to cover that sort of situation even for autonomous cars.
I wonder will taxi companies go this way one day too .
Cheers Rod..

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Maybe in the City

Not even in the city. 5% of the day is about 1hr 10 minutes.
I used my car for 1hr 30mins today and I would consider this an average sort of day. On weekends I use it a hell of a lot more than that.

Originally Posted by Raptor

You know how flying cars have been coming for the last 50 years or so,and still aren't a reality.

I think autonomous cars will have a similar gestation period.

This isn't anywhere near as simple as some people seem to think.

Thing is though that autonomous cars have had more progression in the last couple of years than flying cars have had in the past 50 years.
I can't see flying cars being sold to be public in my lifetime, but I can see full autonomous cars within the next decade.

I want to see how autonomous cars handle proper rural roads and private properties. Negotiating on a freeway or even a city street isn't that hard since they are all well signposted and reasonably predictable.

[roddy1960]

G'day , I wonder how they'd handle the split second darting of a roo , wallaby maybe a wombat. Even when you can see them you still don't know what they'll do..I have my doubts on real rural roads with current stuff.
I'm betting that autonomous will be a driver choice to use or not for a while at least until the tech can be proven in a whole bunch of circumstances . Maybe it'll kind of sneak up on us too. Probably is already if you think about how many driver aids are coming on line as we speak.
I still think that there will have to be a manual override fail safe for a fair few obvious reasons.
Cheers Rod.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day , I wonder how they'd handle the split second darting of a roo , wallaby maybe a wombat. Even when you can see them you still don't know what they'll do..I have my doubts on real rural roads with current stuff.
I'm betting that autonomous will be a driver choice to use or not for a while at least until the tech can be proven in a whole bunch of circumstances . Maybe it'll kind of sneak up on us too. Probably is already if you think about how many driver aids are coming on line as we speak.
I still think that there will have to be a manual override fail safe for a fair few obvious reasons.
Cheers Rod.

Yep, can autonomous cars spot a roo on the grass verge 100m away?
Will they slow and act accordingly?
Or will the just motor on at full speed until the roo decides to jump into the cars path?

Couple of weeks ago driving for 3.5 hours at night we hit one roo, had about twelve close calls due to slowing early and braking hard once they jumped in front of us and saw about another 40 off the side of the road who didn't get in the way. That was the worst night I have had on that road by far but I wonder how many roos an autonomous car would have hit. Or would it have hit none but extended the trip by another 45 minutes due to going slow.

[jpblue1000]

Reaction is based primarily on three things. Awareness, experience and ability.
I have no doubts engineers can solve awareness and ability through technology. An autonomous cars potential to see what we cant and recognise it probably already outperforms a human with radar and alternate spectrum visions. Similarly the autonomous vehicles ability to steer, brake and accelerate will beat most humans.
For me the hard part of the programming will be the experience gained by a human to make judgement while limiting liability on the manufacturer!
Each time we survive an event we learn from it (well moat of us) and lock that knowledge into our memory ready to call upon next time something similar happens..or we just need to tell a good story. I have no doubt learning is possible to a computer, but we don't have time to train a computer to behave better than an 18 year old newly licensed human. As such the programmers will need to do it for day dot, perhaps a collective learning will improve the breed but here lies the problem. We cant rely on a 2 year old human to drive 2 tonnes of car at speed yet we are hoping the development of artificial intelligence is significantly advanced to allow it to.
We are relying on the programmer to educate the car prior to us getting into it. And that the programme protocols have enough depth to identify, and react to a potential problem.
I see two outcomes, I understand many but have read at least Volvo and ford have stated they will accept liability for damages caused by their autonomous product if it fails. As such and sensibly they will programme their product conservatively. It will err on the side of caution and slow appropriately given the potential for risk, not necessarily of risk. As such journey time will increase but so will safety. Secondly as I believe the autonomous vehicle industry is interested in safety and material efficiency at the cost of time society will demand the opportunity for free-er routes where autonomous cars have less distractions (picture that scene in minority report) this will further drive a divide between the car and its space and people. Cant train the car, hide the children!
Autonomous cars are coming, they will be safe and reliable...but at what further social cost?
Dont get me started on autonomy and the economy!
JP

[roKWiz]

Not even a thought to me, if I wanted a machine (which I wasn't in charge of) to take me somewhere I would catch a train.

[Junkyard-Dog]

I can definitely see why some people are in favour of autonomous cars. My chief concern is security (i.e. cyber-security). Havoc could easily be caused by a hacker taking control of a large 4x4 sized vehicle and ramming it into a crowded place. I don't really see how they can totally safeguard against it either considering the vehicle will need to communicate with other vehicles somehow.

[jpblue1000]

Cars dont talk or communicate with each other today. No need to suggest they need too tomorrow in an autonomous world. Might be benefit if they do but they cease being autonomous. Its obvious nothing stops current cars being used as weapons. At least an autonomon attack would be harder than picking up the keys. And a truly autonomous vehicle wont need the internet
JP

[Junkyard-Dog]

The cars themselves may not communicate today, but drivers certainly do.

A simple wave, nod or even eye-contact between drivers counts as communication and these small gestures are necessary for safe traffic flow.

A car's horn is also a communication device - to inform other motorists of traffic hazards. Autonomous vehicles will probably have some form of "electronic ears" at the very least to "hear" horns and sirens.

[DBourne]

As long as you can still drive if you want to, then I am all for it.

From my perspective, so many people don't like driving, and have no interest in it.

So they are the ones who would be perfectly suited to an autonomous car. Plus it is usually those drivers who cause accidents, so that's a bonus too!

If it comes to the point where it is illegal to drive yourself, well then that would definitely suck.

[roKWiz]

I wonder what happens to these things if the U.S military decide to switch off the GPS without notice.

[rockabilly]

Excluding most motoring enthusiasts and professional drivers, the fact is most people on the road can't drive to save themselves, they can't get up to speed on freeway on ramps, they can't merge properly, they slow down instead of merging at traffic speed, they start slowing down before they are even close to off ramps and hold up traffic! And that's just 1 aspect, I could write an essay really!
With all these electronic gadgets, assisted parking, reversing sensors etc etc, it just lowers people's skills, so eventually people will have no driving skills and the machine will do it all for them!
It will speed traffic up, less fatalities etc etc, trouble is anybody still driving a non autonomous vehicle will be paying huge insurance premiums, because it will always be YOUR fault in an accident because machines don't make mistakes (apparently)
So cruising on a Sunday is gonna cost you BIG dollars!

[Ben73]

How the hell will they get cars to drive themselves when my street isn't on any maps even though it's existed for about 4 years.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I wonder what happens to these things if the U.S military decide to switch off the GPS without notice.

You remember the first Gulf War as well eh ?

[Sabantien]

All the problems we can think of, the people designing these cars are thinking of too.

Audi already include night vision to see and highlight animals long before they're picked up by the headlights.
There's already animal detection systems that warn you about large animals and even hit the brakes if necessary.

Will they completely eliminate accidents? No.
But they'll probably drive better than most people.

I think it'll be autopilot systems for a long time before completely autonomous, so probably won't be something for most of us to worry about.

Commuting in the city, sounds good to me.
Driving a couple hours into Longreach to do some shopping, sounds good to me too.

By the time it's common place we'll be so used to automated driver aids, it won't feel so strange.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I wonder what happens to these things if the U.S military decide to switch off the GPS without notice.

Since the US would likely be one of the first to adopt autonomous cars, and in massive numbers it'd be silly for the government to shut off GPS without notice unless they wanted to grind their own country to a halt.

Maybe they can bounce the GPS signal off some paranoid people's tin foil hats!

[Burnout]

There wont be any autonomous cars out Bush, due to their failure to recognise and react to fast moving trees, roos, pigs, cattle, horses, sheep, fence posts, steep table drains, guide posts, greater than 4 inches in diameter, etc..
Then there's grass hoppers, moths & other incests committing sucside on the lenses of autonomous camera, IR detectors, Radar emitters as well.
All of which will stop an autonomous car in its tracks leaving the occupants to fester on the road side.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Burnout

There wont be any autonomous cars out Bush, due to their failure to recognise and react to fast moving trees, roos, pigs, cattle, horses, sheep, fence posts, steep table drains, guide posts, greater than 4 inches in diameter, etc..
Then there's grass hoppers, moths & other incests committing sucside on the lenses of autonomous camera, IR detectors, Radar emitters as well.
All of which will stop an autonomous car in its tracks leaving the occupants to fester on the road side.

Yes that's based on today technology. You do know that technology improves right? And 10+ years from now when every vehicle manufacturer has their engineers working to create the best autonomous vehicle you don't think any will find a solution to drains and fence posts?

It's also worth noting that many humans can't avoid these things either. How many dead animals do you see out bush on the side of the road? Knocked over posts, etc.

[jpblue1000]

Read an interesting report yesterday about alleged Russia state hacking navigation satellite signals. Apparently 20 or so very large ships were all reported 20 miles of course, all by the same margin. The accusation being Russia was testing disrupter technology. A loss of signal means back up systems take over like humans etc. However sending a signal that is altered could cause significant mayhem.
Suggestion in the report was it was evidence of a missile defence system. Lie to the missles autonomous system and you could make it miss it's target or even redirect it.
Implication for gps based autonomous vehicles.
JP

[FPV0002]

I think it will be awhile until we can hop in our car, set our route from Melbourne to Sydney and jump in the back and watch a movie/have a sleep. IMO The technology will gradually creep in bit by bit until we have cars in which we are fully confident in to go about driving on their own. Until then we they will slowly develop and we will have less input into the cars operation. I'm sure the manufacturer will work out the issues and these cars will be able to see hazards well before humans can. Most people nowadays have no interest in driving and tbh the weekday Commute on Melbournes over congested and over policed roads I wouldn't mind having an autonomous car most weekdays either. However I do not look forward to the day I cannot drive my own car myself and I hope that is a long long way off yet

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

Those autonomous trucks in the pilbara can do just that. If something wanders into its lane it will panic stop if it's within a certain distance. They also predict oncoming traffic interactions and slow up if it deems it a risk to coming into its path.

They will even stop if a tumbleweed less than a foot in diameter gets into their path.

Are they better than a manned truck. No. Do they move more than a manned truck? Yes just cos they don't need to take a **** or change shifts.

Do they work well on long hauls yup but in tight spots they suck.

There are however a number of important distinctions.

1. Since year dot, haulpaks have always had right of way on minesites, and so other traffic behaves accordingly. Collisions are already (thankfullly) few and far bewteen.
2. They operate on circuits, so there are no complex interactions.
3. A human driving a haul truck can't see ****, so electronic "eyes" would actually be a huge improvement.
4. They already cost millions to buy, maintain, and operate, so even say an extra $100k for the autopilot, is chump change.
5. Drivers are paid a LOT of money to sit on their **** and try not to fall asleep. To employ, feed, and accomodate a driver on a remote site probably costs a company $300k per year. How many uber drivers make that kind of money?
6. By definition they are hauling rocks. If the autopilot (or collision avoidance) sends a truck off a bench, its a simple insurance claim. If a bus does the same thing, your company is going down for billions in compensation and somebody is going to be charged with reckless homicide.
7. If it runs over a Mallee Fowl, nobody but the resident tree-huggers cares.

[Rallye Sport]

I'm watching the RAC auto bus trial in South Perth with interest.

Almost twelve months and it still crawls at 15kph, freaks out and stops if a cyclist goes by or a bird gets too close.

Then theres pedestrians or drivers like me that like to tease it.

The palms and trees on the road side had to be butchered so as not too interfere with it but they're growing back now causing head aches.

It can't negotiate roadworks either so tough titties for the roadworkers who need to cone off areas whilst working, they're told to pack up and get out of the way.

They're talking about taking it out on a main, dual lane road near a freeway ramp soon, good luck with that one...

[olfella]

So they may be good while only one or two around it is going to get interesting when there are thousands of them.
I am waiting the see everyone knock off work at the same time, get on the freeway travelling in the LHL just below the speed limit, then GPS tell it to move over and take next ramp from RHS. Meanwhile all of us are passing them in the RHLane not allowing a lane change. Is there going to be a pile up? Do they all slow down and wait? Do they overshoot and attempt a U turn somewhere?

[b0son]

Will autonomous cars be the death of the car industry as we know it? Where's the motivation for performance or individualisation in a car you aren't driving? I'm not about to spend $50-80k on a performance car that I'm not driving. I'd likely just buy the absolute cheapest buzz-box I can if my driving enjoyment is no longer a factor.