Engine malfunction warning and P244C DTC

[rondeo]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Well the saga continues.....

When I got home Thursday PM the Mondeo had just started a burn, so I left it running (at idle) for 10 minutes whilst it completed.

Started up this morning to drive to work (i didn't have Forscan up) and Engine Malfunction warning again and this time limp mode.

Pulled over and scanned, got DTC P2002C - DPF efficiency below threshold

Reset OK and monitored the gauges. the DPF_LOAD gauge was at 0% and DPF_SOOT_LD at 25%

After about 5 minutes of driving the DPF_LOAD jumped from 0% to 25% and climbed as normal to 61% by the time I got to work (120km). It should be due for a burn about half way home so hopefully will complete a successful burn and continue on.

I have to say I'm about over these DPF problems.....

Same happened to me this afternoon: engine malfunction warning and limp mode!

Pulled over and scanned:

DTC P2002C - DPF efficiency below threshold

The DPF_LOAD gauge was at 0% and DPF_SOOT_LD at 32%.

Some time later after restarting the DPF_LOAD value was 43%.

Did some googling and found this interesting forum post, post #4:

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...2-code-311269/

The DPF_LOAD value is calculated by the pcm from various input data from the engine management system etc. In other words it's what the pcm thinks it should be.

On the other hand DPF_SOOT_LD is inferred from the pressure differential across the DPF.

Anyway I took a look at the hoses to the pressure sensor and they were fine.

I'll keep driving it as is, on the assumption that there has been a glitch, or else an intermittent sensor/circuit fault.

[rondeo]

Ooops I got DPF_SOOT and DPF_LOAD round the wrong way in my last post.

Though not specifically about Mondeo this text from Fordservice.com is indicative of the sort of strategies used to flag a P002
DTC:

'The DPF Filter Efficiency monitor compares the calculated restriction (from a sensor measuring delta pressure
across the DPF) to the expected restriction calculated from a soot model (using various engine sensors as inputs).
After a successful regeneration event, the monitor waits for DPF temperatures to fall below a threshold (400 degC,
to allow for an accurate soot estimate)and for a small quantity of soot to build up in the DPF (approx 3 grams). At
this point, the monitor performs a filtering routine on the calculated restriction (from deltaP sensor) and locks in the
initial restriction. Once sufficient soot has built up in the DPF (based on integrated soot from the soot model), the
monitor will repeat the filtering routine on the calculated restriction (from deltaP sensor) and from the estimated
soot in the DPF (from soot model). The ratio of restrictions (actual vs soot estimate) is compared to a threshold. If
the ratio is less than a threshold, an error flag is set. The monitor allows for multiple monitoring sessions in order to
provide debouncing before declaring the monitor as a pass or fail. When a sufficient number of sessions have
been completed, the monitor is declared complete. The number of sessions with a failed result is compared to a
threshold. If the number of failed sessions is greater than a threshold, the monitor is declared as failed and the
code is set.'

[bundybear75]

So nearly 20,000km since the DPF problems and all is good. Looks like the vaporiser was the problem. I plan to strip the old one down and clean it out as a ready spare in case of problems in the future.

Rondeo, did you get to the bottom of your issues?

[rondeo]

P2002 and EML has been a one off so far.

Everything's normal.
Could have been a glitch, snag, quirk or hitch. No Idea.

After reading your post I bought a 22mm crow foot spanner, just in case.

[T-Pak Addict]

Originally Posted by rondeo

Possible DIY solution to vaporizer carbon blocking is to drill and tap into the end of the vaporizer and plug with a 4mm stainless hex head bolt, as per Meguinnes on Talkford.

It's hard to DIY if you're working though. You need expensive tools, and the technology has changed. Ford's information policy doesnt help either.

I'm retired so time is not an issue, and have spent lots on tools. Problem is Ford's unethical attempt to profit.
Information which might help the consumer with mechanical problems such as you are experiencing, is withheld in the hope of earning money. They try to profit by monopolising the service of Ford cars, pathetic really. Are they really that desperate?

I did this and saved myself $400, Thanks for this info it saved me some big $$$ Mine just fully coked up (185k) drilled and tapped with a M5 Tap and M5 Allen Key bolt. Cleaned it all out run some degreaser thru in and blew the rest out with compressed air.

[askvictor]

So I got this error a week ago (MC Mondeo), and eventually managed to force a burn to clear it, and have been monitoring the DPF since. I've noticed the soot load goes up to 80-85% (about 8g) every 150-200km, and has done a few burns by itself since then. Is this about right? By chance I was doing a fair bit of highway driving, but am wondering what happens when doing mostly city driving - when the soot load gets up to high levels?

I've also been monitoring the DPF differential pressure - it changes a bit depending on load, but seems to average around 4kpa, but varies from 0 - 12 when running normally.

Have also noticed that the fuel consumption seems to sporadically be higher than normal - I usually run about 5L/100km on the highway, but was up at around 7-8 for a bit, but then dropped back down. This was not during a soot burn btw.

Any thoughts?

[rondeo]

Around 80% is the maximum in normal operation, any higher indicates a problem.


A good summary here:


https://www.gotboost.co.uk/p244c-for...ostic-testing/

[NZ XR6]

Interesting thread, this could be the cause of the P2002 DTC on my MB.

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[NZ XR6]

I'm unable to see all of the PID's referred to in this discussion, for example DPF_LOAD is missing from the list in the FORscan app. All I can find is a PID for differential pressure. Is this because I have a MB and selected MY2007.25 when asked by the app?

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[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

I'm unable to see all of the PID's referred to in this discussion, for example DPF_LOAD is missing from the list in the FORscan app. All I can find is a PID for differential pressure. Is this because I have a MB and selected MY2007.25 when asked by the app?

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I could be wrong, but I dont think the MB has a vaporiser like the MC - Doesn't it initiate burns by changing the fuel mixtures in the cylinders? I thought there was an issue of diesel contamination in the oil due to this?

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

I could be wrong, but I dont think the MB has a vaporiser like the MC - Doesn't it initiate burns by changing the fuel mixtures in the cylinders? I thought there was an issue of diesel contamination in the oil due to this?

You could be right - I've never looked to see if my wagon has one. But I doubt that extra fuel alone could raise the exhaust temperature enough at low speeds to complete a regen.

I have very few regens occur at low speed, but sometimes notice the engine temp changing while driving, which I expect is a regen. Maybe the vaporiser is only used when the extra fuel alone cannot provide enough heat?

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[rondeo]

Why not take a look?

[NZ XR6]

Yes, but I'd need to jack up the front of the car!

I expect Bundybear is right. The vaporiser should not affect engine temperature, which certainly happens on my MB.

It looks like they started fitting the vaporiser when the diesel became Euro 5, which happened during 2010. So mine could be either. I tried to check on ETIS but you now need to register as a business to see the vehicle specs, and I couldn't be bothered.

Interesting article here: https://www.eltaeurope.com/techassist-fuel-vaporizers/

They are certainly a better way to do a regen than squirting extra fuel into the engine and hoping!


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[rondeo]

It's cheaper than the gym anyway.

Jacking the front should only take a few minutes.
I use two floor jacks with props and think not much of it.

As for removing the undershield a small cordless screwdriver with a 10mm hex drive socket and a picnic blanket from Bunnings.

There's plenty to see having done that.

[manchu]

Ive had P244C come up a couple of times recently on my MC. ( Exhaust Temperature Too Low for Particulate Filter Regeneration Bank 1). Also P246B at the same time (Vehicle Conditions Incorrect for Particulate Filter Regeneration)

~250km between instances and both times the car hasn’t gone into limp mode and I’ve just reset it using FORScan so I’ll just keep driving it I reckon. What’s the worst that can happen??

I don’t have much appetite for head scratching or spending $$ on a hail damage write off I bought back from insurance 5yrs ago so I’m shopping for a cheap replacement. No DCT or DPF this time!!

[NZ XR6]

Being an MC it's probably the vaporiser which may just need a clean. See previous posts.



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[Mondaveo]

@manchu how many km have you got up to prior to the P244C and P246B occurring?

Just want to collect some data points for myself for when I might expect to need to clean/replace a vaporiser. 176K lifetime km on my Mondeo so far.

T-Pak Addict reported the fault at 185Kkm and bundy was on approximately 200Kkm in this thread.

[manchu]

Originally Posted by Mondaveo

@manchu how many km have you got up to prior to the P244C and P246B occurring?
.

I'm at 184kkm so more or less in line with the others.

I haven't had it the issue again though and I know it's successfully completed at least 1 DPF burn since so hopefully it's another case of my mondeo magically fixing itself including: P269F 8yrs & 1yr ago and suspected dual mass flywheel noise from ~1.5yrs ago.

[AlCan]

Just read this fascinating thread and some of the associated links.

The eltaeurope.com article suggests that Mondeos in particular have these vapouriser problems. Seems like some do, some don't. None so far in my old 260Kkm MC.

Here's a thought. As I understand it, the Fuel Vapouriser is supplied by a variable output pump which is supplied from the fuel return line, which takes injector leak off fuel and HP Pump bleed fuel back to the tank. Sometimes, there are air bubbles in this supply.

Maybe these sometimes cause loss of prime in the vapouriser feed pump.

That could explain why these problems are sometimes intermittent, and would also help explain why some vapourisers get coked up, while others don't seem to. If the pump loses prime during a DPF burn, then whatever fuel is present in the vapouriser is going to get baked, and I imagine, will start burning inside the vapouriser body. This might lead to coking up, which probably wouldn't happen if there is enough fresh, cool fuel coming through.

It's just another theory, but if it does happen, then frequently running your fuel tank down is likely to increase the number of air bubbles coming through - as I found years ago - it often happened when cornering hard with a low tank level.

It also seems likely to be exacerbated (esp. in Rear Fuel Filter equipped models - 2011-2012?) by a dirty, partially clogged fuel filter, as this will increase the suction in the main Fuel Supply Line (Post filter), putting extra stress on the seals along the way. Ahh - and reducing the fuel flow in the Return line. From watching the Instantaneous Fuel Consumption, a DPF Burn takes quite a bit of extra fuel. If it's not available, then the Vapouriser flow will be low... making coking more likely?

I'd be interested to know if those who've had vapouriser issues can relate to these possibilities.

[AlCan]

Originally Posted by manchu

Ive had P244C come up a couple of times recently on my MC. ( Exhaust Temperature Too Low for Particulate Filter Regeneration Bank 1). Also P246B at the same time (Vehicle Conditions Incorrect for Particulate Filter Regeneration)~250km between instances and both times the car hasn’t gone into limp mode and I’ve just reset it using FORScan so I’ll just keep driving it I reckon. What’s the worst that can happen?? I don’t have much appetite for head scratching or spending $$ on a hail damage write off I bought back from insurance 5yrs ago so I’m shopping for a cheap replacement. No DCT or DPF this time!!

Have you replaced your fuel filter lately?

[AlCan]

Originally Posted by rondeo

... https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=AAPSAnB4G2Q
Hopefully a glitch.

A most relevant video!

Near the end, they've added the following warning:

"Finally, some DPF Systems will not regenerate correctly unless the vehicles tank contains over 20 litres of fuel..."

Wonder if Mondeos are in that category.

Could be that's what triggered this: "Also P246B at the same time (Vehicle Conditions Incorrect for Particulate Filter Regeneration)."

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by AlCan

It also seems likely to be exacerbated (esp. in Rear Fuel Filter equipped models - 2011-2012?) by a dirty, partially clogged fuel filter, as this will increase the suction in the main Fuel Supply Line (Post filter), putting extra stress on the seals along the way. Ahh - and reducing the fuel flow in the Return line. From watching the Instantaneous Fuel Consumption, a DPF Burn takes quite a bit of extra fuel. If it's not available, then the Vapouriser flow will be low... making coking more likely?

I'd be interested to know if those who've had vapouriser issues can relate to these possibilities.

I understood the rear filter models were the Euro 4 up to 2010, with Euro 5 having the filter at the front. But I might have that wrong.



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[AlCan]

Maybe!

I still have an old 2011 MC which has almost the identical engine (I think it's called a DW10C TED4 [TXBA?] 120kW) as the 2013's - except that it has a hydraulic power steering pump fitted at the front, RH (Driver's side) of the engine. It has the Fuel Filter down the back by the tank.

In 2013, they switched to Electric P/S, so were able to delete the Hyd. Pump. I think that's the TXBB? They then moved the Fuel Filter forward into that position.

TBH, I MUCH prefer the hydraulic P/S as it has a uniform, consistent and predictable steering response. I think they tried to be too clever with the electric "enhancement" and made it "progressive" somehow. At certain speeds in certain radius corners, it feels like the car is (anti-)tramlining - or, like there's a detent (a lump, or a ridge) inside the steering system that you are perched on as you corner. A little one way or the other, and you have to correct it, back onto or over the lump. It can become a game of yoyo. It's another annoyance...

Anyway, the filter location may have nothing much to do with the coking up of the vapouriser, and possibly it's more to do with running your fuel tank low.

Or, it may be nothing to do with any of it, and is just a function of the car's driving conditions (city vs highway), the fuel used, the driving style and maybe a lot of plain luck.

Or, it's just another time bomb, set to go off at around 200,000km!

[NZ XR6]

The MB doesn't have a vaporiser, it just squirts some additional diesel. The downside is that the vaporiser should improve PDF regens, but my car seems to regens well enough.

I totally agree about hydraulic power steering. I understand that electric took over as it is more economical.

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[NZ XR6]

Apologies for the typos but I couldn't edit the post for some reason. PDF was autocorrect!

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[AlCan]

Didn't know that - no Vapouriser in MB models. One less thing to go wrong!

Sounds like the MD has even more.

Mazda apparently didn't get it right in earlier CX-5's with diesel "topping up" the engine oil! Do you know if it's really been successfully fixed? I saw a lot of them for sale at one stage...

[AlCan]

You know you only get 30 minutes to make Edits? Often not really long enough

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by AlCan

You know you only get 30 minutes to make Edits? Often not really long enough

Yes, I noticed the PDF autcorrect immediately but didn't get the option to edit. Might have been a Tapatalk glitch?

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[NZ XR6]

I had the "Diesel filter overloaded" message for the first time after 2 failed regens. It did another regen immediately and seems fine now, but that's was the first time I'd seen that message.

I need to install Forscan on my new phone to check for DTC's, which is a little more complicated than it used to be as it is no longer available in the Play Store.

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