Should Traffic Fines simply be Abolished?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Maybe a large fee for renewal after points based suspension

But the points relative to the offence is largely arbitrary, not grounded in any actual stats.

[Citroënbender]

You've only got to watch ten minutes of DCOA videos to realise that there is an appreciable slice of the driving population who simply do not care.

It doesn't matter how big the fines, how dire the rules, they are going to do what they're going to do until either Newton addresses the situation or they get a lengthy stretch. This is not a call for "more jails/jail sentences" but simply an observation.

[jpd80]

In Queensland if you get caught 30k or more over the speed limit, it’s 4 demerit points. Get caught again inside 12 months and it’s double the points, immediately a show cause notice issued.

Get caught on your mobile phone and it’s $1,000

[Rob S]

I think in WA,30km or more over the limit,you lose your license etc.

[98TLS]

Originally Posted by Rob S

I think in WA,30km or more over the limit,you lose your license etc.

Fwiw here over the ditch 140+ and your outta the car and walking home with instant loss of licence and i think a day in court etc.

[Citroënbender]

I note the referenced matters are presently sub judicæ, so present the links without specific comment.

https://mypolice.qld.gov.au/brisbane...ecialist-unit/

https://www.9news.com.au/national/na...a-b3650acc6ca7

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Sure. And let rich folk pay all the revenue.

If you remove all cash fines, the government will still need their revenue and will just bump up everyone’s tax and the poor man still ends up paying.

But as the saying goes, if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime. Poor man can’t afford to speed, rich man can.

Though what fine are you referring to as $200 and no points anyway?

But we are told minor traffic offenses are deadly. That means the government should be encouraging all people to obey the rules, not just poor people.

[MITCHAY]

We can argue about fines all day long but why should a person be held to a different standard for the same offence because of their income? You can't rack them up endlessly because of demerit points.

Pretty sure you can make a payment plan anyway and they just won't take your money. If they do it's because you paid in full without even asking.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

We can argue about fines all day long but why should a person be held to a different standard for the same offence because of their income? .

Agree.

[simon varley]

So, where do you find fixed mobile camera's? Easy, where it is obvious ****ers speed - pretty simple. Obvious straights on freeways, known 'hotspots', in towns where people should know better, high traffic area's where there is a clear straight run

the majority of objective peer reviewed research indicates that the judicious application of speed cameras does indeed result in fewer road fatalities.

and there you have it in a nutshell. exactly why nobody believes that in Australia speed cameras have anything to do with safety.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Ben73

But we are told minor traffic offenses are deadly. That means the government should be encouraging all people to obey the rules, not just poor people.

They do. Points loss still affects rich people. Just the fine has less impact.

Can’t increase a fine for someone who earns more money. What next, charging them more for fuel and rego?

Funnily enough though, when I see highway patrol with a car pulled over, it’s rarely your high end luxury and sports cars (ie. rich folk cars) it’s generally the low end poor mans cars.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Funnily enough though, when I see highway patrol with a car pulled over, it’s rarely your high end luxury and sports cars (ie. rich folk cars) it’s generally the low end poor mans cars.

Same. Majority of times its the cheap end of town. Usually the ones that are first to cry revenue raising, even though it's a voluntary contribution.

[aussiblue]

and there you have it in a nutshell. exactly why nobody believes that in Australia speed cameras have anything to do with safety.

Non sequitur .

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by simon varley

and there you have it in a nutshell. exactly why nobody believes that in Australia speed cameras have anything to do with safety.

We could argue the value/merit of speed camera's all day, but in reality ALL Governments need income, we are told that their slice of income from income tax is decreasing, so like all of us they need to find other sources to pay for everything they commit to. Whether we like it or not we all live in a largely socialist country, so sharing the love to those less fortunate is what we do, and if you want to speed then get caught, then put it down to help keeping the country accustomed to the life we all love

[davenl5l]

The problem with cameras(in sa) is they have proven to be innacurate so our lovely government has made it so you cannot dispute the accuracy in a court of law making them a purly revenue raising device. I travel from yorke penninsular to sadelaide an average of every 2 weeks and since the insallation of fixed sppd cameras on port wakefield rd you never see a cop anymore and you can spot the locals as they all speed 120k plus between the towns on this stretch knowing there is no police

[Franco Cozzo]

My rule works pretty well

Speed limit + 20km/h by GPS in 80/100 zones on highway/freeway.

Speed limit + 19km/h by GPS in 110 zones - just under loss of license if caught

These are only $330 and 3 points in VIC, you can get done 3 times, still keep the license and its still under a thousand bucks, good deal.

Even if you do 10 over or 24 over its still $330 and 3 points so there's no point in only doing 10 over the limit, its worth rolling the dice on.

If there's no one around and its 3AM then there's no speed limit

[ute83]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I have a fool-proof way of never giving these thieving bastards anything, nothing, zip, ****-all

I don't do anything wrong - it works all the time for me.

My last traffic infringement was in Wodonga in late December 1997, that's right, 22 years ago, and I do lots of miles

It's not just a couple of ks over the limit. You claim to not do anything wrong. Like all of us you would break some laws every time you drive. I take what you say as white noise Trev, ever since your global warming preaching and then going racing on week ends.

On the topic of fines. I don't think people care any more.

[hayseed]

What about this Dipstick.......??

https://www.bigrigs.com.au/news/man-...oints/3915793/

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hayseed

What about this Dipstick.......??

https://www.bigrigs.com.au/news/man-...oints/3915793/

I like how the importance is placed on the $54K fine and 392 demerit points, with the speeding the focus rather than the 13 drivers licenses across two states, 4 different Australian passports, one UK passport and the scales.

The guy obviously deals in drugs with a tonne of different identities, he's probably worth multiples of 7 figures, will have the best legal team money can buy but lets focus on the speeding fine, points on one of his 13 licenses and dangerous driving rather than the real win here

At the end of the day if he comes off the bike at high speed, he's the one who is going for the lovely slide across the ground at circa 200km/h, who cares.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by ute83

It's not just a couple of ks over the limit. You claim to not do anything wrong. Like all of us you would break some laws every time you drive. I take what you say as white noise Trev, ever since your global warming preaching and then going racing on week ends.

On the topic of fines. I don't think people care any more.

I don't race anymore, car sold 2 years ago, and the climate is changing, I am not sure why you don't believe that

[ute83]

Do I need to spell it out for you Trev?

[ljf12]

I believe lot of European countries fine you dependant on income, apparently a few years ago a wealthy Finn was fined around $100,000 for doing 65mph in a 50 zone.

[guzzis3]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

however many studies I find, it won't change a lot of peoples views that they don't work so I won't wast my time looking for more.

When I read papers I don't just accept their conclusions. When I can I get the data and work through teh methodology. I spent most of my working life in research and I know all too well when you give funding a smart researcher will get the answer the customer wants.

Here in Queensland the DEATH toll fell from the late 70's to 1998, the year Beatie got in, introduced cameras and sent all the cops out to book people.The decline halted rose and plateaued. It only declined when there was a steep rise in petrol prices. After 98 crashes due to excessive speed did not decline, crashes due to inattention increased about 20%.

In the last 10 years there has been a dramatic divergence in deaths to injuries. Trauma has remained high, but deaths have declined. We are still crashing but cars are more death proof.

You can torture the numbers all you want, but I have seen no correlation between numbers of traffic infringements issued and total road trauma let alone trauma due to excessive speed. The reports I have seen supporting the effectiveness of mass anti speeding campaigns quote specific cheery picked locations and time periods or weighted data.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

We could argue the value/merit of speed camera's all day, but in reality ALL Governments need income, we are told that their slice of income from income tax is decreasing, so like all of us they need to find other sources to pay for everything they commit to. Whether we like it or not we all live in a largely socialist country, so sharing the love to those less fortunate is what we do, and if you want to speed then get caught, then put it down to help keeping the country accustomed to the life we all love

I've got a good idea, stop letting all our industries leave and incentivise people to create business and attract foreign investment in Australia, then you'll grow the revenue from income and payroll tax rather than it shrinking.

Alternatively I'm happy to cut funding to healthcare and education because I'm in my late twenties and I don't need these services

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I've got a good idea, stop letting all our industries leave and incentivise people to create business and attract foreign investment in Australia, then you'll grow the revenue from income and payroll tax rather than it shrinking.

That would involve our politicians Thinking & Planning beyond the next Election cycle.....As If..

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Which is pretty shocking considering how much safer new vehicles have become.

But of course these clowns will double down and use more speed cameras in the quest to bring down the road toll, something it has already failed to do. But luckily for them, their revenue projections from speed cameras have increased. Funny that.

Safer cars does not necessarily mean they are safer to be in when driven by an idiot.

As you probably know, I work in the motor insurance industry.
its been a long time since I was in sales and service, but some of the safest cars there are eg Subaru WRX with all the bells and whistles. Think about it, these particular cars can actually be "too safe"

The main reason they have a very high insurance premium is because they do not have small accidents, in most cases they are a total loss....why? they are too safe in my opinion.

They are a purpose built rally car with technology for that kind of thing

WRX (World Rally Cross)

They will comfortable do what other cars won't due to the traction control and all other systems and suspension etc

They will go around a bend with an advisory sign of 70 and do it comfortably at almost double that speed.

This gives the driver an over inflated sense of safety and what the car can do.

It may very well do that bend at 140 kph, but go that extra km too fast and it lets go and hence has a very major accident.

So my original point is the safety of cars in the hands of an idiot does not equate to a lower road toll.

NB. I am not saying every driver is an idiot...I am purely illustrating a point about the safety of cars not necessarily having any correlation to the road toll

[Fed]

If you lose your points you can buy some new ones, the Govt should sell direct & cut the middleman out.

[jpd80]

There are well known fixed speed camera locations in Brisbane yet they are the highest revenue earners, I am convinced that some drivers are just dumb, they speed everywhere and forget where the cameras are located.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There are well known fixed speed camera locations in Brisbane yet they are the highest revenue earners, I am convinced that some drivers are just dumb, they speed everywhere and forget where the cameras are located.

In VIC they're not signed but you know where they are, they're usually under gantries across freeways hidden behind overhead signs.

Most GPS gives you fixed camera locations anyway and it goes off its head as you approach them.

With the mobile cameras they're always new cars on the side of the road with what looks like rectangle spotlights on the front of them, except one is really far out from the other.

They always rotate them around the same few places on a highway, if you're familiar with your local roads they are a non issue.

It reduces your risk to being caught by law enforcement but there's not that many out on the roads, then you're given the benefit of an interaction with another human rather than a camera and computer, further to that if you're on Melbourne's M1/M2 Freeways they can only pull one person over at a time and there's huge traffic volume.

Years ago I was fanging along in my Focus at around 140km/h in a 100 zone coming home on the last 30km stretch from night school on a week night, it was around 11PM, closer to home I saw headlights in the distance on the opposite side of the road and I didn't think much of it.

As we got close the red and blues came on and I crapped my dacks.

Looking in the mirror expecting them to do a hasty u turn and catch up.

They just turned them off and kept going, I guess they were probably heading home for the night as well or maybe on the way to something more important.

Risk management principles

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There are well known fixed speed camera locations in Brisbane yet they are the highest revenue earners, I am convinced that some drivers are just dumb, they speed everywhere and forget where the cameras are located.

If they have been there for a long time then these people are not paying attention or don't care. These people deserve the fine. It's not that hard with the tech that's available these days to know where they are.