Is a 1990 Holden HSV VN Worth $1mill+ ???

[lumen8]

Originally Posted by Fiji

I remember back in around year 2000 I was going to buy a VL walkinshaw group A, the bat mobile silver car. It had around 70000km at the time and the price was $24-26k from memory ..

I didn’t buy it. But there no way today I’d pay that price for the same car, with an extra 20 years aged, 20 years more km on the clock, and when I compare what I can get for similar money. I don’t care if it’s 1 of 300 cars or whatever..

It’s 180kw and 400nm and it’s an old car, no better numbers than a base fg Falcon xr6

Today id pay $7500 max. That’s what it’s worth, but people will pay outrageous prices for them. Nothing special that car, similar to group a VN

Well it doesnt work that way... an VY-VZ LS1 dunnydore would cream a hemi cuda in every way with just a tune and a few bolt ons in regards to performance whether it be straight line or twisties ... but the dunnydore wont go for 3 million dollars at barret-jackson.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Mmmmm still same $306,000 as yesterday?....Fiji is right
Auction Saturday 31st July 2021
Cheers bWilliam

Like any auction it will be down the to the last minute. Expect that LMCT+ are probably watching it too, given that they have an appetite for buying these cars lately to raffle off.

Originally Posted by Fiji

Must be a Fake bidder. But it illustrate my point;

Wouldn’t you rather a brand new bmw m5 for $250k and bank the other $55k?

Would anyone pick a vn group A 1990 model over a brand new bmw M5 +$50k cash?

Even If I had a new Hyundai i30n I wouldn’t swap it for a VN group A

Well I hope you seek better financial advice than your own for the rest of your life decisions because that is frankly idiotic.

No one would dispute the BMW M5 would be a better car in absolutely all aspects but it would be interesting to compare the linear valuations over the next 20-30 years if you were looking at it from an investment perspective which - undoubtedly - any buyers looking to buy this VN would be.

And the i30N? That just shows you're either being a trolling knob or completely clueless. Good work.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Fiji

I remember back in around year 2000 I was going to buy a VL walkinshaw group A, the bat mobile silver car. It had around 70000km at the time and the price was $24-26k from memory ..

I didn’t buy it. But there no way today I’d pay that price for the same car, with an extra 20 years aged, 20 years more km on the clock, and when I compare what I can get for similar money. I don’t care if it’s 1 of 300 cars or whatever..

It’s 180kw and 400nm and it’s an old car, no better numbers than a base fg Falcon xr6

Today id pay $7500 max. That’s what it’s worth, but people will pay outrageous prices for them. Nothing special that car, similar to group a VN

I'm not sure you grasp the concept of 'collecctibles' - cars or other.

[zipping]

If I recall correctly they couldn't sell these cars at the time. Planned to build 500 as per the rules but got dispensation because they could only sell around 300.

Guess that has made them rarer.

A VN Grp A never won a race (I think)

300k is plenty for this car.

[Giant Cranium]

what's your mates offer on a Porsche 959?

it would be beaten by the new 911 Carrera s so I imagine its not worth much

[hayseed]

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by Fiji

I remember back in around year 2000 I was going to buy a VL walkinshaw group A, the bat mobile silver car. It had around 70000km at the time and the price was $24-26k from memory ..

I didn’t buy it. But there no way today I’d pay that price for the same car, with an extra 20 years aged, 20 years more km on the clock, and when I compare what I can get for similar money. I don’t care if it’s 1 of 300 cars or whatever..

It’s 180kw and 400nm and it’s an old car, no better numbers than a base fg Falcon xr6

Today id pay $7500 max. That’s what it’s worth, but people will pay outrageous prices for them. Nothing special that car, similar to group a VN

so thats what this is all about, your cut you missed out on making money on a classic and blew thousands on depreciating camrys over the years. Id be spewing too

[zipping]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

a Porsche 959?

Similar number built as to the VN grp A far more desirable car and google says 1.5 - 2 million (although wouldn't be surprised of more now), so if as VN is worth 1 million thats way over priced for the VN

[Junkyard-Dog]

Casual reminder: VNs are horn.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

Casual reminder: VNs are horn.

Where have I heard that before?

[BENT_8]

Problem is, 1mil and that much money anymore for more and more people, all it takes is someone with a desire and a cash stream capable of supporting it.
Is the car worth 1mil+ not to me, but it certainly is worth more than Redbook and worth more than tradin value.

I'd value it somewhere in the 100k area for rarity and milage but that's about it.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Fiji

I do understand the concept very well. But they also have a relative price..

Collectible cars are not like the property market, where the values are universally accepted, acknowledged by banks , valuers and insurers

Collectible cars change hands through a very small community, an unnatural value only acknowledged by a small group of people.. if insurers don’t accept the value, dealers don’t accept the value, I’d be extremely hesitant ant to give any credence to such asking values, bordering on being a sucker for not comparing it to other vehicles that can be purchased.. the price must be relative to what else you can get for the money

For the price of that vn, would you seriously want to drive that car instead of a McLaren 650s which can be purchased for similar money? Come on

A lot of people on here preach about collectibles but wont put their hand in their pockets to pay some of the ridiculous prices asked, with their budgets closer to $10-12k instead of these asking prices

Honestly you ask your mate in the know did you?

So because folks can't afford it, means it not worth good money, drawing a long bow there
The person that may buy it, may also have the supercar you mentioned.
Also the person that may buy it. May have no interest in said supercar.

Stop trolling.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Fiji

It’s a beautiful car, but not worth anywhere near the money.

I loved these cars when I was a kid, 6 Spd man, dual throttle body injection. Same body kit as the race car. There wasnt much like it back in 1990.

But let’s unpack it a bit, 215kw and 411nm? 0-100 in 6.4 seconds. By 2021 today’s standards it’s nothing, a family man in his Hyundai i30n would mow it down. That i30N for $39990 comes with a 5 years warranty too.

Of course the vn group a is rare and has some nostalgic novelty value but only a sucker would pay for it. There is a guy I know who gives you the real value of a car, no sentiments, no history, just assess objectively what the car offers comparative to what you can buy today for the money. He would offer $15-20k for that car if it has 12 months rego and a full tank of fuel.

Go buy a wrx for $15k (or a VT2 GEN3 or a BA XR6 Turbo) and it makes that old vn thing look silly.

It’s like buying a black n white Nintendo game boy from 1980s for $15000 when you can get a current Nintendo switch for $399.. kills it in every way

The same mate would probably offer a guy with a Picasso $50. Cause who'd pay millions for some old paintings



The same mate is also a figment of your strange imagination.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

Casual reminder: VNs are horn.

Not quite, but a VL Calais turbo, yes please.

[rare ss]

Originally Posted by zipping

If I recall correctly they couldn't sell these cars at the time. Planned to build 500 as per the rules but got dispensation because they could only sell around 300.

Guess that has made them rarer.

A VN Grp A never won a race (I think)

300k is plenty for this car.

The VN GPA was a great car, the GTR's were on another level though..

I believe the rules changed during the build so they only needed to make 302 or something, they sold well, the Walkinshaw were having trouble selling the extra 250 they made after the first batch of 500 which is why some were painted black at the dealers, others were turned into a de-kitted VL Calais spec car with the scoop (for the twin throttles)

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by zipping

Similar number built as to the VN grp A far more desirable car and google says 1.5 - 2 million (although wouldn't be surprised of more now), so if as VN is worth 1 million thats way over priced for the VN

I don’t know if I trust you. I’m going to need hulks mate



Also. I really enjoy hulk/Fiji being around here. He stirs the pot and gets conversation happening.

[zipping]

Originally Posted by rare ss

The VN GPA was a great car, the GTR's were on another level though..

I believe the rules changed during the build so they only needed to make 302 or something, they sold well, the Walkinshaw were having trouble selling the extra 250 they made after the first batch of 500 which is why some were painted black at the dealers, others were turned into a de-kitted VL Calais spec car with the scoop (for the twin throttles)

Ok, sounds reasonable, i always thought the VN also didn't sell well and was a factor in the shorter run.

The rule change was only for Australia with CAMS providing the dispensation not the international body

The SS Group A SV existed primarily as a homologation special, created specifically so a racing optimised version of the Commodore could be utilised for Group A touring car motor racing. In fact, the regulations set down by the international governing body FISA at the time required a minimum of 500 road-going versions. HSV produced only 302 units in total. This shortened production run did not affect the SS Group A SV's homolgation thanks to the Confederation of Australian Motor Sport (CAMS) giving Holden special dispensation, in the hope of bolstering thinning grids in the 1991 Australian Touring Car Championship (ATCC).

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

I don’t know if I trust you. I’m going to need hulks mate



Also. I really enjoy hulk/Fiji being around here. He stirs the pot and gets conversation happening.

*giggles*

hulky baits up, wets a line and bags out

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Fiji

I do understand the concept very well. But they also have a relative price..

Collectible cars are not like the property market, where the values are universally accepted, acknowledged by banks , valuers and insurers

Collectible cars change hands through a very small community, an unnatural value only acknowledged by a small group of people.. if insurers don’t accept the value, dealers don’t accept the value, I’d be extremely hesitant ant to give any credence to such asking values, bordering on being a sucker for not comparing it to other vehicles that can be purchased.. the price must be relative to what else you can get for the money

For the price of that vn, would you seriously want to drive that car instead of a McLaren 650s which can be purchased for similar money? Come on

A lot of people on here preach about collectibles but wont put their hand in their pockets to pay some of the ridiculous prices asked, with their budgets closer to $10-12k instead of these asking prices

Ummm.. you claim to grasp the concept of collectibles by going in to a completely different subject in property values.

Just because you can't get a bank or some other institution to agree with you
about the value of something does not mean it is not worth it.

Afterall, it is currently bidding at 300k so it's quite clearly worth more than you or any bank wants to claim... but wait, it's not worth that!!

Your question of whether I would want to drive the VN or a McLaren is pointless - the value is not based on the desirability of the drive of the vehicle at all.

Would you pot people who pay thousands for things such as baseball cards? I mean, they're just cardboard, right? But if it's worth something to them and their peers, who are you to disagree?

[jaydee]

The thing with a BMW M5 or an i30N is that they are and will depreciate for probably 20 years before, through attrition of numbers, they might start creeping back up in value.

Whereas iconic Aussie muscle cars have finished depreciating and are appreciating (have been for several years now) because there's just not that many survivors and those that have either been put in a carcoon most of their life, like this VN or restored/preserved are rising in value.

Plus there are many baby boomers who have in the last 5-10 years got their redundancy or retirement super and want to relive the old days when they used to have a GTR Torana, an XB Fairmont coupe, a Valiant Charger or a nice VN.
This is what creates supply and demand, which drives up the price.

How many i30's will be around to celebrate 50 years like GT Falcons have?
Yes, that's a rhetorical question.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jaydee

The thing with a BMW M5 or an i30N is that they are and will depreciate for probably 20 years before, through attrition of numbers, they might start creeping back up in value.

Whereas iconic Aussie muscle cars have finished depreciating and are appreciating (have been for several years now) because there's just not that many survivors and those that have either been put in a carcoon most of their life, like this VN or restored/preserved are rising in value.

Plus there are many baby boomers who have in the last 5-10 years got their redundancy or retirement super and want to relive the old days when they used to have a GTR Torana, an XB Fairmont coupe, a Valiant Charger or a nice VN.
This is what creates supply and demand, which drives up the price.

How many i30's will be around to celebrate 50 years like GT Falcons have?
Yes, that's a rhetorical question.

I look forward to the day when an AU Falcon is worth a ****load, kinda like how an R33 GTS-T Skyline is now worth $30K when it was worth $5K a couple years ago

People are starting to use them as drift pigs and its gaining a huge reptuation as a meme car.

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by Fiji

A lot of people on here preach about collectibles but wont put their hand in their pockets to pay some of the ridiculous prices asked, with their budgets closer to $10-12k instead of these asking prices

A lot of people on here held on to cars that they got at a reasonable price that have since become collectable.

Even that FGX-XR8 you had to get rid of because you didn't know how to drive it is probably worth more now than you sold it for. Shame you don't still have it though - my guy said if you did I should offer you $8k for it.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Fiji

Let me give you an example... I went to a property auction once and had a proxy to bid.. the buyer really wanted the house and didn't want to lose control and overpay at the auction. They wanted it real bad.

House (at the time) was worth $1.25m...my buyer said they would pay this and it was their upper limit.

Anyway the bidding pushed beyond my buyers limit, but on the phone they said to me to keep going.

Price went to $1.5m and I knew they couldn't afford it.. but they said keep going..

The other buyer went red in the face ready to explode as they just wanted to win and they also went way over their limit. It was only us two bidders left for the last $250k.. and about 50 people watching. It went over $1.5m.. it was worth tops $1.25m... my buyer said to keep going... Both buyers lost their head.

I stopped at $1.5m and hung up on them.. the other buyer wins at $1.525m... my buyer calls back and was upset on the phone that they missed out... I told them you are the winner today for not buying as that house was worth $1.25m at best.. the seller is so overjoyed

The buyer was red in the face, at how much they overpaid.. they just about fainted.. a few months later it was back on the market for sale as they couldn't afford it.. they dumped a few hundred thousand. My buyer bought elsewhere so didn't participate at the next auction where it sold at $1.270m

You pay what things are worth, dont lose your head.. my buyer thanks me to this day that they missed out, I was taking care of them..

If anyone wants that VN give me your proxy vote and I'll go bid, keep a lid on things.. or let the guy I know bid for you, he will offer $12k and walk away.. always always compare what else you can get for your money.. always

The guy I know
My buyer.
Most people could make that up if they tried.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by Fiji

Let me give you an example... I went to a property auction once and had a proxy to bid.. the buyer really wanted the house and didn't want to lose control and overpay at the auction. They wanted it real bad.

House (at the time) was worth $1.25m...my buyer said they would pay this and it was their upper limit.

Anyway the bidding pushed beyond my buyers limit, but on the phone they said to me to keep going.

Price went to $1.5m and I knew they couldn't afford it.. but they said keep going..

The other buyer went red in the face ready to explode as they just wanted to win and they also went way over their limit. It was only us two bidders left for the last $250k.. and about 50 people watching. It went over $1.5m.. it was worth tops $1.25m... my buyer said to keep going... Both buyers lost their head.

I stopped at $1.5m and hung up on them.. the other buyer wins at $1.525m... my buyer calls back and was upset on the phone that they missed out... I told them you are the winner today for not buying as that house was worth $1.25m at best.. the seller is so overjoyed

The buyer was red in the face, at how much they overpaid.. they just about fainted.. a few months later it was back on the market for sale as they couldn't afford it.. they dumped a few hundred thousand. My buyer bought elsewhere so didn't participate at the next auction where it sold at $1.270m

You pay what things are worth, dont lose your head.. my buyer thanks me to this day that they missed out, I was taking care of them..

If anyone wants that VN give me your proxy vote and I'll go bid, keep a lid on things.. or let the guy I know bid for you, he will offer $12k and walk away.. always always compare what else you can get for your money.. always

Please post the realestate.com listing of said house. The listing will show the sold prices and dates. I find it really hard to believe that story. But you can prove me wrong

And damn you got me hooked again

[DJR-351]

Current bid: $341,000 - 1 day + 6 hours to go.....

[whynot]

In a free market, the price is where the buyer and seller agree. Get 100 market appraisals from 100 prospective buyers on what they are prepared to pay for <insert object here> and one would expect a typical bell curve of values. Regardless, it is the highest price - the outlier at the extreme right hand side of the bell curve - that typically conducts the transaction. The other 99 look at the sale price and say "I wouldn't pay that..." So the smart seller (or their representative) doesn't have to influence the 99 people who are immune to the hype. They just have to find and isolate that one poor sod who they can push further out along the right hand edge of the curve.

Of course, that does not mean that sometimes the seller is not fully aware of the value of what they are selling, or are selling a distressed asset, or are trying to offload an asset in a fire sale to liquidate an asset.

So, if the seller gets one million for the article (as long as it is being done above board and there is no misrepresentation) ... good luck to them.

But for me, I have better things to drop my brass on.

[PG2]

Fiji, please don't take me for an idiot, I know you are trolling, and I have been letting you get away with it to a point, but as with a few other threads recently, any more posts of yours will be deleted.

Having said that, I'm going to get the last word in...

I do understand where you are coming from and if I was buying these cars as part of a business I would completely agree with you.

However...

Genuine car collectors / fans / enthusiasts buy these types of cars not only for what they are but how they make them feel.

But you already knew that...

I know buying an AU for the same price as a Hyundai i30 is stupid and doesn't make sense but I buy the old AU for the only reason of how it makes me feel. I work bloody hard and if I want to reward myself somehow by wasting money on a car that is old and slow I don't feel that I need to justify that to anyone and I certainly don't need someone on a car forum (that forms part of the joy of owning my old and slow AU mind you) telling how much of a sucker I am.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Fiji

You sort of get it... Anymore, they are a sucker.

As PG2 has noted below, sometimes people buy an artefact for a value way beyond what the next person would be prepared to pay. Economists define this behaviour as "utility".

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u...heir%20utility.

As I noted above, the market settles at a price of the highest bidder (not what the reset of the market is prepared to pay). Just say that the market was completely flooded with VN's, then the asking price of this one would be significantly less.

It is important to remember that in a free market and capitalist society, people are entitled to set their own price on selling. (Unless, of course, one is a monopoly.) The rest of us may well laugh at the price, but, remember, the seller is free to set the price.

Personally, I think the sale has a smell of hype around it. The seller may be well aware that they are not going to get $1M. But, if they can move their settlement price from, say, $250K to, say, $290K, they may think the exercise and hype worthwhile.

But, if there was a 1990 Toyota Camry LE V6 for sale, like this one, darn, such a desirable car could well get close to $1,000,000.00

https://youtu.be/S3eU1MPaSbQ

(Just listen to that exhaust sound in the review...)

[Charliewool]

Hulk… argue with someone like
https://www.drive.com.au/news/inside...160530-gp7ot5/
Or maybe Dan Bowden?
WHY do they collect these old “rust buckets” that would be left in a cloud of i30’s dust?
WHY would they be SO feckin stupid…. to not just pay insane $$$, but to nurture, maintain and adore these old, slow, bad handling heaps?
Know why mate???
It’s PASSION!!
Something, that you my friendly troll will NEVER understand

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Fiji

Let me give you an example... I went to a property auction once and had a proxy to bid.. the buyer really wanted the house and didn't want to lose control and overpay at the auction. They wanted it real bad.

House (at the time) was worth $1.25m...my buyer said they would pay this and it was their upper limit.

Anyway the bidding pushed beyond my buyers limit, but on the phone they said to me to keep going.

Price went to $1.5m and I knew they couldn't afford it.. but they said keep going..

The other buyer went red in the face ready to explode as they just wanted to win and they also went way over their limit. It was only us two bidders left for the last $250k.. and about 50 people watching. It went over $1.5m.. it was worth tops $1.25m... my buyer said to keep going... Both buyers lost their head.

I stopped at $1.5m and hung up on them.. the other buyer wins at $1.525m... my buyer calls back and was upset on the phone that they missed out... I told them you are the winner today for not buying as that house was worth $1.25m at best.. the seller is so overjoyed

The buyer was red in the face, at how much they overpaid.. they just about fainted.. a few months later it was back on the market for sale as they couldn't afford it.. they dumped a few hundred thousand. My buyer bought elsewhere so didn't participate at the next auction where it sold at $1.270m

You pay what things are worth, dont lose your head.. my buyer thanks me to this day that they missed out, I was taking care of them..

If anyone wants that VN give me your proxy vote and I'll go bid, keep a lid on things.. or let the guy I know bid for you, he will offer $12k and walk away.. always always compare what else you can get for your money.. always

I can make up stories too