Expert advice and NOthing but BULL****! - Page 2

BENT_8 · 18-11-2021, 10:32 PM

So a further update..

After receiving the car back on Friday having had the passenger side rack end and tie rod end replaced and the knock now eliminated i thought it was finally up to standard, unfortunately that wasn't the case.

So after my trip to Pedders with my Ranger on Saturday i decided to return home and take the fiesta for a spin.
Got it out on the highway and soon enough it began to vibrate through not only the steering wheel but the whole car, you could see and feel the passenger seat vibrating in waves.
With the knock eliminated and the buckled wheels replaced with new items i figured the only thing left could be the old tyres it had on it when i bought it so off i went to my tyre guy for a set of new rubber.

Whilst there i had it re wheel aligned and it was at this point that i realised this may be a much bigger problem than a few steering components and new wheels and rubber.
The yard had said it was wheel aligned after the rack end and tie rod end was replaced which you'd expect, problem was, when i had it wheel aligned 24hrs later it was out by quite a bit in castor and camber on the passenger side.
They re aligned it and away i went.
On Monday morning i drove to work and as soon as i got to around 95km/hr it began to shake and vibrate again, i was livid and at my wits end, so back i went to the car yard.

To their credit they agreed to send it back to the mechanic and gave me a free loan car for my troubles.
Today they rang me back and said the mechanic cant find the problem, had swapped the wheels over to a set of steel base model wheels and on test drive the vibration was better but not eliminated.
I went there after work and we discussed the findings.

At first they tried to blame the wheels i put on it suggesting they weren't correct for the car, to this i disagreed and pointed out that 16" rims are standard issue for a Zetec and that all i did was replace them same for same using the original tyres in the first instance.
They then tried to blame the road i drive on to work.
To be fair this is a relatively new expressway and is notorious already for its terrible characteristics, however, the camry loan car they gave me was perfect on it and so is the Ranger whereas the Fiesta also vibrated on other roads of 110 speed limits.

Finally they admitted they have no idea whats wrong with it and weren't sure what to do, to this i again told them what every person i've had work on the car has said, its had a severe kerb etc. crunch and in particular the front passenger side suspension causing the buckled wheels, damaged rack end and tie rod end resulting in the knock in the steering and the continuous vibrations and that it could either be damaged suspension pick up points or as bad as a bent subframe/chassis.

After considering this and my mention of not fit for purpose and consumer affairs they offered me a full refund plus costs i've encountered in trying to correct the vehicle or a replacement vehicle to the same value.
So thats where im at, contemplating swapping it for something else or taking my money and looking elsewhere and to be honest im not sure what to do.

On one hand im thinking its left a bad taste in my mouth but at the same time the yard has been fairly honest and upfront about wanting to fix the issue but just running out of ideas.

Thoughts?

Franco Cozzo · 18-11-2021, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So a further update..

After receiving the car back on Friday having had the passenger side rack end and tie rod end replaced and the knock now eliminated i thought it was finally up to standard, unfortunately that wasn't the case.

So after my trip to Pedders with my Ranger on Saturday i decided to return home and take the fiesta for a spin.
Got it out on the highway and soon enough it began to vibrate through not only the steering wheel but the whole car, you could see and feel the passenger seat vibrating in waves.
With the knock eliminated and the buckled wheels replaced with new items i figured the only thing left could be the old tyres it had on it when i bought it so off i went to my tyre guy for a set of new rubber.

Whilst there i had it re wheel aligned and it was at this point that i realised this may be a much bigger problem than a few steering components and new wheels and rubber.
The yard had said it was wheel aligned after the rack end and tie rod end was replaced which you'd expect, problem was, when i had it wheel aligned 24hrs later it was out by quite a bit in castor and camber on the passenger side.
They re aligned it and away i went.
On Monday morning i drove to work and as soon as i got to around 95km/hr it began to shake and vibrate again, i was livid and at my wits end, so back i went to the car yard.

To their credit they agreed to send it back to the mechanic and gave me a free loan car for my troubles.
Today they rang me back and said the mechanic cant find the problem, had swapped the wheels over to a set of steel base model wheels and on test drive the vibration was better but not eliminated.
I went there after work and we discussed the findings.

At first they tried to blame the wheels i put on it suggesting they weren't correct for the car, to this i disagreed and pointed out that 16" rims are standard issue for a Zetec and that all i did was replace them same for same using the original tyres in the first instance.
They then tried to blame the road i drive on to work.
To be fair this is a relatively new expressway and is notorious already for its terrible characteristics, however, the camry loan car they gave me was perfect on it and so is the Ranger whereas the Fiesta also vibrated on other roads of 110 speed limits.

Finally they admitted they have no idea whats wrong with it and weren't sure what to do, to this i again told them what every person i've had work on the car has said, its had a severe kerb etc. crunch and in particular the front passenger side suspension causing the buckled wheels, damaged rack end and tie rod end resulting in the knock in the steering and the continuous vibrations and that it could either be damaged suspension pick up points or as bad as a bent subframe/chassis.

After considering this and my mention of not fit for purpose and consumer affairs they offered me a full refund plus costs i've encountered in trying to correct the vehicle or a replacement vehicle to the same value.
So thats where im at, contemplating swapping it for something else or taking my money and looking elsewhere and to be honest im not sure what to do.

On one hand im thinking its left a bad taste in my mouth but at the same time the yard has been fairly honest and upfront about wanting to fix the issue but just running out of ideas.

Thoughts?

Take the cash and run I reckon, is it a WS or a WT?

BENT_8 · 18-11-2021, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Take the cash and run I reckon, is it a WS or a WT?

WS, why's that?

I tell ya what, its a bloody shame though as apart from the problem its got its a brilliant little car, not a mark on the paint and interior is like new.
Im so annoyed as although i'll be compensated for my out of pocket expenses, i spent that money hoping it would fix the problem and i could get a good run out of what is essentially a new car having only 55,000k's on it.

Franco Cozzo · 18-11-2021, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

WS, why's that?

WS is German made, WT is Thailand Special, there's a few changes like stud pattern, factory tyre size etc.

They're both not overly popular, good cars but there's not a huge wealth of experience out there in automotive workshop land about these things.

**FTE217** · 18-11-2021, 11:09 PM

"out by quite a bit in castor and camber on the passenger side."

Maybe no one can pick up a control arm is slightly bent ? just a punt.
Mind you thats another cost or trial and error.

What do you mean by swapping it ? at no extra cost ?

Like Franco I'm leaning towards take the money, sell it buy something else.

BENT_8 · 18-11-2021, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

WS is German made, WT is Thailand Special, there's a few changes like stud pattern, factory tyre size etc.

Tell me about it, even trying to get a wheel supplier to agree on the stud pattern was a challenge, some said 4x100, others 4x108, in the end theres only a few wheels available for it in 16".

Franco Cozzo · 18-11-2021, 11:14 PM

What sort of money are they offering you and whats the requirements? I reckon Korean/Jap runabout, they're a bit tougher for our road conditions than our Euro 'friends'.

Crazy Dazz · 18-11-2021, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arm79

You have McClown and his stupid border policies to thank for that. Simply cutting off access to interstate FIFO labour is causing massive issues in Perth.

Err no, we had open borders (and easy access) until Dan and Gladys screwed the pooch and plunged Australia into a disaster.

Franco Cozzo · 18-11-2021, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Tell me about it, even trying to get a wheel supplier to agree on the stud pattern was a challenge, some said 4x100, others 4x108, in the end theres only a few wheels available for it in 16".

4x108 is WS/WZ ST (German cars)
4x100 is WT/Non ST WZ (Thailand Specials)

Why they have to make such a small change like this is anyone's guess

BENT_8 · 18-11-2021, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

"out by quite a bit in castor and camber on the passenger side."

Maybe no one can pick up a control arm is slightly bent ? just a punt.
Mind you thats another cost or trial and error.

What do you mean by swapping it ? at no extra cost ?

Like Franco I'm leaning towards take the money, sell it buy something else.

Yes quite possible, the most recent guy to do a wheel alignment picked it straight away, he said and i quote "the camber is one thing and i can get that close with the bolts you've put in but the castor is worrying".

I said to the Wife today after the initial call from the yard to say the mechanic was stumped that perhaps i should just put up with it for now avoiding highways and look to have it diagnosed and fixed by someone else down the track but then i think why should i, ive spent enough.

As for swap, yep at no extra charge, to the value of what it cost me plus the money i've since spent or my original purchase price and i take back the wheels and tyres and give him back the old buckled factory 16's.
But what do i do with a set of odd stud pattern 16" Fiesta wheels.

BENT_8 · 18-11-2021, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

4x108 is WS/WZ ST (German cars)
4x100 is WT/Non ST WZ (Thailand Specials)

Why they have to make such a small change like this is anyone's guess

Yep, 4x108 was the right one in the end.

**FTE217** · 18-11-2021, 11:27 PM

nah, bugga living with that.
Sounds like its had a damn good shunt on the kerbside which is typical.
Could even be the strut bottom mount is slightly bent BENT

Sounds like a fair deal swap as long as he's got something you like, and get him to take the 16" rims you purchased as well.
Agree on a take all back price, IF you swap for something say for eg a little more he's got a spare set of wheels for zack.

Franco Cozzo · 18-11-2021, 11:30 PM

Is the FGII Ecoboost Falcon still worth cents in the dollar or has the pandemic sent those out of control as well? Could be a good swap if it's in a similar price bracket for your swap - it's the red headed stepchild of the Falcon range even though it's a decent package.

Or a diesel i30 is a decent car as well pre DPF models, at least the price of diesel is stable compared to unleaded where it decides to randomly jump 50c/L overnight.

BENT_8 · 18-11-2021, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What sort of money are they offering you and whats the requirements? I reckon Korean/Jap runabout, they're a bit tougher for our road conditions than our Euro 'friends'.

Im sure i'll get scoffed at by some for admitting this but i paid 9k drive away with 3 months rego for a truly immaculate 1 owner low k Fiesta Zetec that needs to be seen to be believed and i only even entertained the idea due to that fact and that with the COVID tax applicable to everything at the moment its actually not that ridiculous due to supply.

I then spent another $1500 on rotors, pads, wheels and tyres, oh and another $160 on the strut mount plates Pedders said it desperately needed, so $10.5k

**FTE217** · 18-11-2021, 11:33 PM

Hey used car salesmen, chalk n cheese, a Fiesta but I have a perfect working large 4door Falcon for you.

$9k in top nic seems ok to me.

Franco Cozzo · 18-11-2021, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Im sure i'll get scoffed at by some for admitting this but i paid 9k drive away with 3 months rego for a truly immaculate 1 owner low k Fiesta Zetec that needs to be seen to be believed and i only even entertained the idea due to that fact and that with the COVID tax applicable to everything at the moment its actually not that ridiculous due to supply.

I then spent another $1500 on rotors, pads, wheels and tyres, oh and another $160 on the strut mount plates Pedders said it desperately needed, so $10.5k

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SSE-AD-7428819

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SE-AD-11839277

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SSE-AD-7431438

These are good options, that Accord Euro is coming up on the major 120,000km service interval which is spark plugs, fuel filter and valve clearances but they're reliable and very nicely built cars, just make sure it's got a full service history.

... And valve clearances

EVERY
40,000
KILOMETRES

but don't let that scare you off just don't take it to monkeys.

BENT_8 · 18-11-2021, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

nah, bugga living with that.
Sounds like its had a damn good shunt on the kerbside which is typical.
Could even be the strut bottom mount is slightly bent BENT

Sounds like a fair deal swap as long as he's got something you like, and get him to take the 16" rims you purchased as well.
Agree on a take all back price, IF you swap for something say for eg a little more he's got a spare set of wheels for zack.

It had flat spots on the inner edge of 3 out of 4 rims so i'd say a bit more than a run of the mill passenger front kerb side shunt, people were saying not unusual for a full 4 wheel superman over a carpark island which they see quite often on older peoples cars which it was and probably the reason for moving it on.

He doesnt really have anything i like to be honest so a swap isnt really that easy, he offered me a 2011 Camry Altise with 160k's which is actually quite a clean car and he let me drive it home tonight while i decide what i want to do but even that has its problems, it too had a vibration only in the left rear, i stopped at a servo and discovered the left rear tyre had 48psi in it whilst the other 3 had the proper 34.
It also had the typical pull to the left that all those model Camrys seem to have, my Wife had a Sportivo with the same issue, solid cars but couldnt keep up with front left tyres despite perfect alignment, they just want to pull you off the road and turn your tyres into 50c pieces in the mean time.
It takes a good 15* of right lock to keep them straight and it becomes noticeably tiring on your arms over any decent trip as it continually fights you.
Ironically enough the hybrid example they lent me for the last 3 days didnt have this problem but it was a hybrid and is still considering whether it wants to actually move from a stationary posistion, terrible driving experience..lol

BENT_8 · 18-11-2021, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SSE-AD-7428819

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SE-AD-11839277

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SSE-AD-7431438

These are good options, that Accord Euro is coming up on the major 120,000km service interval which is spark plugs, fuel filter and valve clearances but they're reliable and very nicely built cars, just make sure it's got a full service history.

... And valve clearances

EVERY
40,000
KILOMETRES

but don't let that scare you off just don't take it to monkeys.

Had over 100 cars franco, never had a Honda, dont see that changing anytime soon but thanks for the suggestion.
Not too sure about the Ecoboost, a Barra i can rebuild with my eyes closed but a turbo drops its bundle and im at the mercy of the LV repair industry and we both know how much of a mine field that can be..lol

Franco Cozzo · 18-11-2021, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Had over 100 cars franco, never had a Honda, dont see that changing anytime soon but thanks for the suggestion.
Not too sure about the Ecoboost, a Barra i can rebuild with my eyes closed but a turbo drops its bundle and im at the mercy of the LV repair industry and we both know how much of a mine field that can be..lol

Don't write it off because it's a Honda, at least go kick some tyres and see what you think, that's good value.

They were new when I got into the automotive industry and it's a standout of their entire range, I started at a Honda dealership and got to service and drive many an 8th generation Accord Euro, it's also actually made in Japan, not Thailand and it has their K series engine.

Even to this day, aside from the current Civic Type R and the NSX it's the best car of their range in the past 15 years - at least that's what I think anyway, would rather that over a Mazda 6.

Alternatively, can't go wrong with an Ecotec Commodore

BENT_8 · 18-11-2021, 11:56 PM

Anyway, off to bed now, work awaits in 8hrs not that i'll get much sleep, probably just drive the Wife crazy while i ponder my next move..lol

BENT_8 · 18-11-2021, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Alternatively, can't go wrong with an Ecotec Commodore

I noticed PB popped into the thread so i was expecting a suggestion of a VN and go do skids..

Poetic Justice · 19-11-2021, 01:43 PM

I feel a bit for the pimply faced kid at this point - seems that despite his misdiagnosis, the more experienced mechanics also did not prevail in working out the issue.

Hopefully he still wants to be a mechanic after the closed door reaming.

fiestaz · 19-11-2021, 02:58 PM

What about looking for another Fiesta? You know its a good car, just had a bad run with that particular one.

Franco Cozzo · 19-11-2021, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiestaz

What about looking for another Fiesta? You know its a good car, just had a bad run with that particular one.

Econetic - povvo spec model at Zetec price, wonder why it flopped

Has a DPF though but I saw a few available cheap recently.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SSE-AD-5327518

Get your $9K back, negotiate this one down to $4500 and then shout me a beer next time I'm in Adelaide

BENT_8 · 19-11-2021, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

I feel a bit for the pimply faced kid at this point - seems that despite his misdiagnosis, the more experienced mechanics also did not prevail in working out the issue.

Hopefully he still wants to be a mechanic after the closed door reaming.

I dont, having taken the time to pull the struts out i can tell you there is absolutely no way possible to view the bearings without removing them, it was a guess and proved to be completely wrong.
If you're not sure you dont suggest something has failed and is 'metal on metal', circle it for added emphasis and provide a quote for hundreds of dollars to replace them.

Would you feel sorry for me if id had them do the job and they pull it all apart, realise there was no metal on metal and put it back together with a bill for the work completed?
No because you'd be like me, none the wiser.

BENT_8 · 19-11-2021, 07:56 PM

So i rang the dealer this morning and politely declined his offer of another car, he was more than happy and said he respected my decision.
After work i returned the Camry he lent me and he paid me on the spot.
He also gave me the appropriate forms to cancel the rego and get a refund and request my stamp duty back from service SA which i did immediately after leaving the yard.
So after all was said and done i was out of pocket for a few weeks rego, the Pedders inspection and a few bits and pieces id spent on it which i didnt expect to be reimbursed for.

The search begins for a replacement.

**FTE217** · 19-11-2021, 10:58 PM

Great it worked out nice and swift - perfect for a Friday.
Lets see whats to become

Citroënbender · 21-11-2021, 07:22 AM

I’ll second the comments made by FC on Accord Euros. You almost never see them in the shop for other than routine maintenance. It may be partly because the owner demographic looks after their cars, but that still commends them as a used prospect.

W169 Benzes are surprisingly tolerant of neglect, worth 4/5 of nothing and suffer mild cosmetic issues with external trim edges degrading.