Lights

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Streets

Counted about 12 cars with no headlights in a 10-minute period on my way home from work the other night just after dusk. There were more but I stopped counting. The past five or so years I've noticed people getting worse and worse at managing their lights. On the one hand there's people who don't put them on at all and on the other you have the suburban 4x4 heroes who blind everyone else in traffic with their aftermarket lights like they're crossing the Nullabor or something.

Past 5 years hey around the same time drl's became popular, you reckon it might be a reliance on the car doing the work we used to do ourselves making drivers complacent?

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Not at all, but thats what the manufacturer wants you to believe you need whereas a simple head check will do the same thing.
They put these things in to high end models to encourage you to pay more, if it was purely about safety they'd put them in all spec levels.

Car manufacturers use different angles to market their product, my earliest recollection was the 80's where luggage space was a key point in advertising, the 90's saw kilowatts as the pitch, the 2000's was a shift to SUV versatility and more recently its been active and passive safety systems.
Dont get me wrong, airbags save lives, abs helps pedal mashers when panic sets in, but a little light to tell you not to change lanes, please.
They tell you what you need and provide a product to suit.

If you accidently broke your drivers mirror glass rendering the blind spot warning sign inoperable would you refrain from changing lanes until it worked again or just resort back to what we've done for over 100 years?

Alot of manufacturers have the full suite of safety systems standard across the range now... For example a base I30 comes with blind spot monitoring

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

Alot of manufacturers have the full suite of safety systems standard across the range now... For example a base I30 comes with blind spot monitoring

No and ford is one them that does not pack all safety features from base model to top end model, you get what you pay for.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by Itsme

No and ford is one them that does not pack all safety features from base model to top end model, you get what you pay for.

I said a lot of manufacturers. Not all....

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Past 5 years hey around the same time drl's became popular, you reckon it might be a reliance on the car doing the work we used to do ourselves making drivers complacent?

If drivers used the auto lights function at least the car would have lights on at night.

It's a fact that some drivers aren't as attentive as others. That will never change. That's why these features exist. Some people see it as some sort of attack on their manhood or something.

It's better than having cars drive around without lights on.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by prydey

If drivers used the auto lights function at least the car would have lights on at night.

It's a fact that some drivers aren't as attentive as others. That will never change. That's why these features exist. Some people see it as some sort of attack on their manhood or something.

It's better than having cars drive around without lights on.

My ranger has auto lights but I do use them for the reason rangers have a bad habit of having flat batteries.
Question you got to ask is why car manufacturers give you the option to disable these features.
Like I said before some safety feautures seem to dumb down drivers.

[burnz]

auto light feature, i leave it alone let it do it's own thing.
works fine all the time..

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by prydey

I do shift work and so travel at night every day. Without fail, I would see at least 1-2 cars every day driving without lights.

Jesus, I do shift work and probably see it once or twice a week. It is getting a little more common I'd say.

Originally Posted by Metdevil

As for auto headlights, I hate it and never use it, mainly because they're not on when I want them on. As you said, headlights are just as much for being seen as they are for being able to see, so you need them on more than just when it's dark.

I only use two position on my light dial. All the way left "auto" all the way right "on"
No need for off or parkers

[PG2]

Could it be that instrument clusters now light up when the car turns on irrespective of whether the headlight are on or off?

I understand that there is a little light on the instrument cluster these days but I think that a lot of people used to only realise that there lights were not on because they couldn't read the speedo etc.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by PG2

Could it be that instrument clusters now light up when the car turns on irrespective of whether the headlight are on or off?

I understand that there is a little light on the instrument cluster these days but I think that a lot of people used to only realise that there lights were not on because they couldn't read the speedo etc.

Probably accounts for some of it but i dont believe auto lights is the answer.
When i get in to my car at night putting lights on is an instinct, the problem i see is all the other distractions.
Here we are discussing the pro's and cons of a feature aimed at inattentive drivers whilst in another thread we applaud a 12" portrait touch screen.
When cars were simple and internet was in your home not your hand we just drove.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Probably accounts for some of it but i dont believe auto lights is the answer.
When i get in to my car at night putting lights on is an instinct, the problem i see is all the other distractions.
Here we are discussing the pro's and cons of a feature aimed at inattentive drivers whilst in another thread we applaud a 12" portrait touch screen.
When cars were simple and internet was in your home not your hand we just drove.

Do you believe in the notion that it's possible for a time to come when people won't make mistakes?

That's a fantasy.

At least auto lights means cars not getting around at night with no lights on.

I agree with what you say but it's not going to fix anything wishing people weren't infallible.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by PG2

Could it be that instrument clusters now light up when the car turns on irrespective of whether the headlight are on or off?

I understand that there is a little light on the instrument cluster these days but I think that a lot of people used to only realise that there lights were not on because they couldn't read the speedo etc.

Yeah, that's the first thing I thought of too. Mentioned in my opening post.

[Para045]

Originally Posted by prydey

I do shift work and so travel at night every day. Without fail, I would see at least 1-2 cars every day driving without lights. This is something that seems to be on the rise especially now with most cars having DRL's because it can appear the lights are actually on.

+1 I work shift work as well and have noticed more dickheads relying on DRL's and driving lights instead of their HL's
As I work up in the hills east of Perth I also get annoyed at the even more prevalent occurrence of dickheads driving with only one HL and I see the same cars over and over again
Now I get that cars have become a lot harder to change the globes on but bloody hell is it that hard to do rather than driving around not being able to be seen or having to run with HB's or DL's on and blinding other drivers really

I believe this first started becoming an issue with dash lights were no longer connected to driving lights. Once upon a time, you had to have your lights on to illuminate the dash. That meant that it became pretty obvious pretty quick to the driver if the lights weren't on. These day, dash lights come on with ignition, so at night, your dash is all fully lit up so there is no obvious signal to turn your lights on.

To me though, its just more evidence that many drivers just aren't focussed on just simply driving/operating the car anymore. Too many distractions.

Another bugbear of mine regarding lights, is AUTO lights and why people don't use them when the car clearly has them. I really can't see why people don't like using their lights. Lights are just as much about being seen as it is about being able to see. My folks used to not use auto lights because they didn't like them coming on when entering underground parking etc. I explained they turn off automatically when locking the car so its fine. It's not like you are wasting batteries etc like when using a torch.

I too use the AUTO setting on my HL's and find it great for most occasions, yes sometimes I'll need to turn the lights on around dusk when there is just enough sunlight to stop them coming on automatically but normally it works well and in my FG you can tell when the lights come on because the dash darkens

After all, that is essentially why DRL's exist. The inability of drivers remembering to turn on lights, or recognising when lights need to be used. Volvo were well ahead of their time...

I'm not really certain DRL's are a necessity here in Oz, especially WA as it's never really that overcast or hard to see that DRL's would help when it would be better to turn on the HL's in the 1st place

Originally Posted by slowsnake

but yesterday 3 motorbikes without headlights?...now I thought they were automatic when ignition is on and bike started, but either they had an override function or they did it manually? Illegally of course, I dident see one dude, but only noticed the sun reflecting off a bit of chromework!
Push bikes I get lots of, but flashing rear light but nothing on the front?

Hard wired HL's on MC's aren't a legal requirement AFAIK. I believe it was introduced back in the 90's for a while but then got revoked as it was an unnecessary extra cost for selling MC's in this country when they weren't required in many others
A lot of bikes do have them hard wired and my 98 Honda BB does but it really depends on the manufacturer as to whether they do it or not
I have always tended to have mine on even with other bikes where they aren't hard wired BUT with the prevalence of cars with DRL's I think the extra safety is getting reduced as they no longer stand out compared to all the cars on the road

As for pushies they s**t me with their flashing white lights on the rear which is actually illegal as no vehicle is meant to have white lights on the rear

Originally Posted by Metdevil

As for auto headlights, I hate it and never use it, mainly because they're not on when I want them on. As you said, headlights are just as much for being seen as they are for being able to see, so you need them on more than just when it's dark.

As others and I said there is nothing stopping you turning the HL's on in the few occasions it's needed

In saying this, I also hate how often I do drive with my headlights on for a number of reasons; halogens having such a short lifespan, the FG's lights being a pain to replace, and risking the FG deciding it doesn't need an ICC every time you disconnect the battery being a few of them.
I was thinking of installing aftermarket DRLs to save replacing halogen bulbs so often.

This ^^ is one of the reasons why I replaced my halogens with LED's as well as driving in the hills a lot I was blowing globes every few months


Also, can we just get rid of park lights? I hate it when people think that park lights are good enough for being seen. Park lights are not visible in rain or fog, they also give a false perspective of how far away you are. Are you 50 meters away with your headlights on? Or are there two lost campers with flat AA's in their torches standing on the footpath?
Judging a gap on a foggy morning comes down almost entirely to the headlights of approaching cars, especially when those cars are silver, white, or grey.

Please stop using park lights as 'pre-headlights'...

+1 I really can't see the point of parkers these days

Originally Posted by prydey

Parkers are for parking. They're essentially clearance lights for when you're stopped on the side of the road.

Auto lights doesn't mean you have to choose one or the other when you drive. I often turn my lights on in the Territory (as above, any weather that isn't sunny) but the default position is still the auto position.

Lifespan of globes is a non issue for me. If turning on and off really shortened the life substantially then indicators would be failing all the time, which they don't.

I believe lights are a safety feature, not a gimmick. Yes, there was a long period of time prior to auto lights and drls and the road toll was also substantially higher.

Can't say I've seen too many people that leave parkers on while sitting on the side of the road

Originally Posted by prydey

Yes, I do think vehicle lighting has improved car visibility on the roads. You can't attribute a percentage to any one feature or advancement.

I whole heartedly agree that improved HL's have made a huge difference to safety on the road, not only are other vehicles easier to see but since I've upgraded my XR6T's HL's to LED's and my MC to HID's before that they are so much better in the country areas and on the highways

While I do think the lights on new cars that alert drivers to someone in their blind spots "shouldn't" be necessary and are for lazy drivers it's an unfortunate fact there are more and more badly trained and lazy drivers on the roads and while I always look over my shoulders I do seem to think that I've had less cars cut me off on the MC since they became commonplace

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

If you accidently broke your drivers mirror glass rendering the blind spot warning sign inoperable would you refrain from changing lanes until it worked again or just resort back to what we've done for over 100 years?

Most definitely not.

You cant blame car manufacturers for making drivers lazy though, many new cars come with lane departure warnings etc even in base model cars.

I do agree around the headlight thing though. See so many drivers with DRLs on at night thinking that they have headlights on. I mean the fact that you cant see not enough reason to turn light on?
Then theres the opposite, folks driving with high beams on around town
Other day a range rover with eye retina burning high beam LED lights on, at a height that came straight through the back window of my ute. Old love in it probably 70 oblivious that the back of my head was on fire. This was in the middle of the day also.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

My boss thinks auto lights flatten batteries.

He also turns the air conditioner off a minute or two before stopping the car. Not sure why.

He bought a top of the line a Hyundai Santa Fe with all the bells and automatic whistles and uses none of it.

People are odd.

I'll probably take this thread on another tangent, but I often see people with a phone to their ear driving expensive Euros, FFS they all have Bluetooth!

there are people I know with climate control that refuse to use it.

not using the Auto headlight feature cos your worried about blowing lamps makes as much sense.

I hate grey Camrys without lights on!!!

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by PG2

Could it be that instrument clusters now light up when the car turns on irrespective of whether the headlight are on or off?

I understand that there is a little light on the instrument cluster these days but I think that a lot of people used to only realise that there lights were not on because they couldn't read the speedo etc.

100% its happened to me, the Muppets at Ford service always turn my auto headlights off

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

100% its happened to me, the Muppets at Ford service always turn my auto headlights off

One of the reasons for that, is when the vehicle is driven into the service workshop the auto headlights switch on & dazzle other workers in the vicinity so the automatic reaction is for the driver to quickly switch them off.

I'm not making excuses & they should switch them back on, but they often simply forget.

Dr Terry

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

Do you believe in the notion that it's possible for a time to come when people won't make mistakes?

That's a fantasy.

At least auto lights means cars not getting around at night with no lights on.

I agree with what you say but it's not going to fix anything wishing people weren't infallible.

Perhaps you should lobby manufacturers to have auto lights a fully automated feature and do away with the option or a ignition on lights on and do away with light switches and DRL's altogether.

Start a petition Rob, give us a link and we'll get on board.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Modern cars have a light on the cluster to show if the headlights are on or off.
I dont use auto lights as having them come on and off all the time when unnecessary would surely shorten the bulbs life expectancy, we got by for decades without auto lights and drl's, in fact i remember people hanging **** on Volvo's back in the day for having constant lights on.
These things are marketed as safety features by the same manufacturers that did away with amber indicator lenses and fitted weird shaped lights that often leave you guessing where the indicator is and then if its actually operating or if thats just the suns reflection on some fake chrome trim.
Its just another gimmick and could be argued that having drl's and auto lights adds to the lack of actual control and required concentration to operate the vehicle safely.

There's plenty of research out there to show the positives that DRL's bring. I've been fitting DRL's to cars and trucks since about 2013 now (that didn't come with them from factory). I travel country roads regularly and the benefits of DRL's is there especially with black / charcoal cars, you can judge the distance alot better.



As for AUTO headlights its really a no brainer, set to auto and forget most of the time except for poor weather conditions where they may not come on early enough.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by DJM83

See so many drivers with DRLs on at night thinking that they have headlights on.

I think this is a big contributing factor with a lot of drivers but I can see Prydey's point where there is a lot of vehicles driving with no lighting at all.
interestingly being a shift worker myself I observe more vehicles doing this at dusk coming on night rather than mornings before daylight.

[fiestaz]

Commodores starting VE's defaulted to Auto. You could turn the lights off, but as soon as you restarted the car it defaulted back.
Toyota Hiace has only an auto or on.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

100% its happened to me, the Muppets at Ford service always turn my auto headlights off

you cant do that in a holden, it's like the traction control resets when car is started..

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Perhaps you should lobby manufacturers to have auto lights a fully automated feature and do away with the option or a ignition on lights on and do away with light switches and DRL's altogether.

Start a petition Rob, give us a link and we'll get on board.

Auto lights is already a pretty commonplace feature, and in our Escape is the default selection, so I'm sure other manufacturers are the same. If you change it away from auto lights, when you turn the car off, the next time you turn on, it will be back to auto. The switch is electronic. Its a good move.

Why would I want to remove the option for people to choose though? I'm not threatened by technology or anti technology. If you want to feel like you are all in control, then thats fine, but I'm happy to have all the features.

[FTE217]

Auto lights on is great to me....can't see the issue with people against.
Same with auto wipers.
The main diff to peoples experiences with them I notice is how well the OE has the sensor set at to activate lights coming on.
For eg, my daily BM - both features work brilliant, the moment I hit a tunnel the lights pop on whereas the FGX sensor is nowhere near as responsive, takes a few more seconds and into the tunnel.
Auto wipers on the BM as well, say minimal amount of drops across the screen wipe.
Again FGX set longer.
Have no care or concern of light wear and tear or wipers.
Auto engine off when pulling up at lights - well thats another storey and probably not in the threads main subject or can it be included for people to comment.

[Ben73]

I don't get how people can think their DRLs are headlights at night.
One of my cars has LED DRL the other has halogen DRL. I've tried both at night and they hardly light up anything.
Especially the LEDs. They give a faint glow in every direction. They don't light up much of the road ahead like headlights do.
When you look towards the car the DRLs are very bright.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I don't get how people can think their DRLs are headlights at night.
One of my cars has LED DRL the other has halogen DRL. I've tried both at night and they hardly light up anything.
Especially the LEDs. They give a faint glow in every direction. They don't light up much of the road ahead like headlights do.
When you look towards the car the DRLs are very bright.

I think its a matter of them not realising, not actually relying on DRLs as lights.



The amount of people driving around with no headlights on is scary these days and is 100% attributed by the face that all cars seem to have cluster back lighting on 24/7.



The main cause for people actually turning their lights off AUTO is the light home function (where the lights stay on for a set time after the car is turned off), people just don't like this and have a habit of turning them off.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

The main cause for people actually turning their lights off AUTO is the light home function (where the lights stay on for a set time after the car is turned off), people just don't like this and have a habit of turning them off.

could be, but that it also reminds you that the car needs locking

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

could be, but that it also reminds you that the car needs locking

either way it's programmable, set delay (zero, 30 seconds, 1 minute, 3 minute ect ect...)

[Streets]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I don't get how people can think their DRLs are headlights at night.
One of my cars has LED DRL the other has halogen DRL. I've tried both at night and they hardly light up anything.
Especially the LEDs. They give a faint glow in every direction. They don't light up much of the road ahead like headlights do.
When you look towards the car the DRLs are very bright.

I think a large part of it is that people begin their journeys home in the evening from well-lit car parks and then go out onto the streets which are also relatively well-lit with street lighting and lights on in buildings etc, so they don't need headlights on to see their surroundings.

The problem is that other drivers rely on people having their headlights on in order to be able to see them. The most prominent and dangerous example in my experience is when you're at a T-intersection waiting to pull out onto a main road. Nowadays I check three times before pulling out, firstly for cars, secondly for motorcycles and then thirdly for the inevitable car which has no lights on, because there's ALWAYS at least one.