RAM boss praises locally made trucks

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by prydey

I don't recall any comments of that nature. Perhaps you can include a link to the posts you're referring to.

There were comments about the costs to engineer a bigger engine to fit for one model or that the 2L was good enough but I don't recall anyone bringing economy in to the discussion, especially in the context of why a bigger engine wasn't offered.
.

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Doesn't need to be petrol, just a decent improvement in power and torque over the 3.2.
I agree, a big petrol engined double cab would have a very small market here, but surely there's a diesel in the ford world that is better?

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Rubbish. All the dealer deposits already made are proof people don’t care whats powering it. Same deal with xlt and wildtrak.

No one buys petrol motors in dual cabs, mostly due to ridiculous fuel costs. A v6 petrol in a 2 tonne + truck would chew the fuel.

.

These two quotes were on the first page the 2L was mentioned. There were another 1600 comments after those posts in that thread alone.
Not to mention other threads on this websites, comments sections under car reviews on their websites, YouTube comments sections, Facebook comments sections.
I remember seeing many comments about the original Raptor. There were many people arguing that fuel economy is more important than acceleration in a Raptor.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Ben73

These two quotes were on the first page the 2L was mentioned. There were another 1600 comments after those posts in that thread alone.
Not to mention other threads on this websites, comments sections under car reviews on their websites, YouTube comments sections, Facebook comments sections.
I remember seeing many comments about the original Raptor. There were many people arguing that fuel economy is more important than acceleration in a Raptor.

My apologies. I stand corrected.

I still wouldn't call the ram sales figures proof that there is strong demand though.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Ben73

These two quotes were on the first page the 2L was mentioned. There were another 1600 comments after those posts in that thread alone.
Not to mention other threads on this websites, comments sections under car reviews on their websites, YouTube comments sections, Facebook comments sections.
I remember seeing many comments about the original Raptor. There were many people arguing that fuel economy is more important than acceleration in a Raptor.

And one of those who commented have now, in the face of a petrol powered high performance V6, spun it to read "The 2.0L was never the best option, it was just the best option available at the time".

Poor old Trev and I got slammed by all and sundry for suggesting there's no replacement for displacement, I bet some of those same critics are probably now either owners of, or have a deposit on .....wait for it...a 50% larger displacement petrol or diesel V6.

Go figure.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And one of those who commented have now, in the face of a petrol powered high performance V6, spun it to read "The 2.0L was never the best option, it was just the best option available at the time".

Poor old Trev and I got slammed by all and sundry for suggesting there's no replacement for displacement, I bet some of those same critics are probably now either owners of, or have a deposit on .....wait for it...a 50% larger displacement petrol or diesel V6.

Go figure.

It was good having a quick look at that old thread from 2017. If only I had time to read all 1800 comments.
I remember copping some flak for having the hide to suggest a car marketed as a perform vehicle should have more engine performance than the standard variants.

I do understand there may have been some reasons why the original Raptor was built the way it was, but at the same time it’s good to say “I told you so” to the few people who were adamant that the original Raptor was built in its peak form.

The new Raptor ticks pretty much all the boxes. I hope to buy one in the future.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by prydey

You know what context. Don't play dumb. In the 9 years they've sold 17000 utes, all the other utes have likely tallied close to 1million. Ranger and hilux would be close to 600000units just on their own.

These Ram articles regularly pop up and are worded to try to paint the picture that they're taking over the sales charts. They aren't.

Sure, it's great for local manufacturing, don't get me wrong, but to suggest the original comment you quoted was wrong is still very wide of the mark.

Got to say the quoted RAM numbers are baffling to say the least in articles by motoring journos etc......
Purely my matter of interest being in the Aftermarket I keep an eye on new models/consider looking to have parts available for the market.
Franco knows also from our side of the fence we have a sofware system that you can get VIO's nationally.
I got my guy to do a check on total rego's for 1500/2500/3500's Aust/NZ from 2015 on I'm advised 4,862.
694 units per annun.
Happy seeing locals being in jobs and all but yer, numbers says it all.

My take on these compared to Franco's popular Thai Specials.
Yanks have always had their pickups appointed not too bad interior wise, wonderful large cup holders is sacrilidge otherwise the red neck won't buy
Positives, V8's and live axles in most, KISS principles.
Overall I've never rated quality that good from yanks, not any better than the Thai product but thats my opinion.
Another point is as Franco bangs on - Thai specials nudging triple figures, well no yanky pick up is worth the triple + figures as well imo but adding on RHD conversions + duties you get that but those pick ups over there are affordable to the majority whereas here not.
I just don't get paying that much for a new vehicle that is re modified NOT OE and paying those bucks no diff to those RSpec mustangs.
Just my perspective, I like em and the Silverado's/150's etcetc but they are not worth that money unless a business purchase/your cashed up and its the most suitable type of vehicle for your needs.
Obviously by the numbers sold pricing is the barrier and the Thai Special even though a rip off as well is ffordable to the mass's and I guess they should advertise eat them for curry - one could say lol.....

[Citroënbender]

That’s approximately 2,75 units per weekday, would be interesting to see sales by postcode.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

That’s approximately 2,75 units per weekday, would be interesting to see sales by postcode.

agreed, I asked could they get the figures State by State for eg, NO he said.
I'll see if I can find out from others anything more.
Got to say I've seen more RAMS in my Sydney travel circle more than I've spotted a new Ranger and I'm serious.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FTE217

agreed, I asked could they get the figures State by State for eg, NO he said.
I'll see if I can find out from others anything more.
Got to say I've seen more RAMS in my Sydney travel circle more than I've spotted a new Ranger and I'm serious.

Curious about your VOR data - did you search for both listings under both manufacturers in your VOR data?

They used to be sold under 'Dodge' branding, they've been separated off as their own manufacturer 'RAM' for a while now.

Look at VOR data for both 'Dodge RAM' 1500/2500/3500 and 'RAM' 1500/2500/3500 data and report back your findings.





P.S - anyone with the means, there's an opportunity in the market for braking to providing an aftermarket program for Ford F150/F250/F350, Dodge/RAM 1500/2500/3500 and Chevrolet Silverado 1500/2500/3500 rotors and pads.

At the moment your typical TRW/Bendix/RDA/DBA doesn't provide rotors and or pads for these vehicles in the Australian market and they're missing a first to market opportunity because they're looking at VOR data rather than opportunity to be first to market.

As we stand in Australia the only options customers with these vehicles have is OEM.

Regards

Former category manager

[FTE217]

yes knew they are listed separately nowadays.
Search was done all models originally.
He tells me under RAM from 2013 on breakdown
1500 - 2869 regos
2500 - 1816 """""
3500 - is bit skechy pre 2013 with 274 regos but from 2013 search quotes 177.
The 2869 + 1816 + 177 = 4862 as quoted.

[naddis01]

According to Vfacts, RAM sold 603 in September with 557 being the 1500. YTD they have sold 4153 vehicles (3636 1500s and 517 for the 2500/3500s).

I can't see how 4862 is correct for 2013 onwards. There are over 700 RAMs for sale on Carsales at the moment. Surely 1 in 7 can't be for sale right now.

I can't see Ford or Toyota being interested in joining the party if RAM have sold less than 5000 in the past 10 years.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...g-in-australia

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by naddis01

According to Vfacts, RAM sold 603 in September with 557 being the 1500. YTD they have sold 4153 vehicles (3636 1500s and 517 for the 2500/3500s).

I can't see how 4862 is correct for 2013 onwards. There are over 700 RAMs for sale on Carsales at the moment. Surely 1 in 7 can't be for sale right now.

I can't see Ford or Toyota being interested in joining the party if RAM have sold less than 5000 in the past 10 years.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...g-in-australia

They might only update VOR data once a year, I think thats what they did with autoinfo anyway.

I'm not sure about the other companies who also do VOR, you can do it by state based, just not with autoinfo.

[naddis01]

According to this article, RAM have sold the following...
2016: 292
2017: 398
2018: 723
2019: 2868
2020: 3320
2021: 4025

and YTD 2022: 4153

[FTE217]

thats the one I was looking at hence my thought to check naddis.....
I sure wouldn't believe everything an article quotes, much like reading wiki.
As for the data base we use I'm going to check up how up to date it is.
It works off rego or vin numbers or models might I add so I expect it needs to be freshed update monthly at least but I'll report back once I have more meat.
VFacts would operate similar I expect, they can only rely on the gov registry systems.

[Sprintey]

on this link here:

https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-october-2022-wrap/


Alex from the Drive team has answered a 4x4 ute numbers question in the comments:

"Chevrolet Silverado 1500 1347
Chevrolet Silverado HD 431
Ford Ranger 4x4 34,536
GWM Steed 4x4 2
GWM Ute 4x4 6073
Isuzu Ute D-Max 4x4 17,322
Jeep Gladiator 1210
LDV T60/T60 Max 4x4 4588
Mazda BT-50 4x4 8511
Mitsubishi Triton 4x4 21,783
Nissan Navara 4x4 7880
RAM 1500 4,232
RAM 2500 530
RAM 3500 48
SsangYong Musso/Musso XLV 4x4 1336
Toyota HiLux 4x4 40,058
Toyota LandCruiser pick-up/cab-chassis 9633
Volkswagen Amarok 4x4 3407

Total 162,927"

quite a lot of RAM there, about half of Cruiser ute

[Bossxr8]

The Navara has completely tanked.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Navara has completely tanked.

They read the market completely wrong with the current generation Navara.

Nissan were seeing the trend towards dual-cabs becoming a varsatile family car. As such, they softened they styling to be less tonka-truck and find favor with women. They also switched to coil springs in the attempt to offer a more refined driving experience.

Except that's not what buyers wanted. The softer styling put male buyers off and the softer suspension did not provide the required load and towing ability.

At the same time Toyota, Ford and Isuzu doubled down on the tough styling and load carrying ability. Nissan got caught on the wrong foot and in the process got forgotten about.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

They read the market completely wrong with the current generation Navara.

Nissan were seeing the trend towards dual-cabs becoming a varsatile family car. As such, they softened they styling to be less tonka-truck and find favor with women. They also switched to coil springs in the attempt to offer a more refined driving experience.

Except that's not what buyers wanted. The softer styling put male buyers off and the softer suspension did not provide the required load and towing ability.

At the same time Toyota, Ford and Isuzu doubled down on the tough styling and load carrying ability. Nissan got caught on the wrong foot and in the process got forgotten about.

IIRC, a major public admission from Nissan was not enough consideration of major markets like Australia when developing the current Navara. Rear coils is OK, not setting up the rear suspension to provide rear leaf sprung load abilities with the superior handling dynamics of coils and then have it work in sync with the front suspension was one possible issue.

[janddbone]

They missed the Pikup in that list.

[GCRXR6]

Crikey the things are huge. I was about to hop out of my Everest today, when a Ram reversed into the space beside us. Fair dinkum, I thought about taking a snack for the journey to the end of it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

Crikey the things are huge. I was about to hop out of my Everest today, when a Ram reversed into the space beside us. Fair dinkum, I thought about taking a snack for the journey to the end of it.

Is it 'huge' or are the Thailand Specials just small?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

IIRC, a major public admission from Nissan was not enough consideration of major markets like Australia when developing the current Navara. Rear coils is OK, not setting up the rear suspension to provide rear leaf sprung load abilities with the superior handling dynamics of coils and then have it work in sync with the front suspension was one possible issue.

They completely stuffed the suspension tune. They have had about 3 goes at trying to revise it since.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They completely stuffed the suspension tune. They have had about 3 goes at trying to revise it since.

Subcontract out to HSV - job done

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They might only update VOR data once a year, I think thats what they did with autoinfo anyway.

I'm not sure about the other companies who also do VOR, you can do it by state based, just not with autoinfo.

FYI naddis and responding as mentioned.
Yep in bold above as Franco mentioned, I just wanted to be sure.
The company says the lag is due to Gov dept's take forever forwarding on the updated numbers, typical.......
In saying that, I'm not against the RAM, I really like it TBH but as mentioned way overpriced for Yank product and still, imo the numbers are nothing to right home about even though those figures are out under 12mths.
Its ok at least they are employing some aussies.

[naddis01]

It still doesn't add up even with this year's and last year's figures not included. Anyway, moving on.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Is it 'huge' or are the Thailand Specials just small?

Haha...Yeah a bit of both Franco. Evie is a little shorter than the ol' Ranger.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FTE217

FYI naddis and responding as mentioned.
Yep in bold above as Franco mentioned, I just wanted to be sure.
The company says the lag is due to Gov dept's take forever forwarding on the updated numbers, typical.......
In saying that, I'm not against the RAM, I really like it TBH but as mentioned way overpriced for Yank product and still, imo the numbers are nothing to right home about even though those figures are out under 12mths.
Its ok at least they are employing some aussies.

You could say the exact same thing about all the Thailand Specials

The American utes are way overpriced, but you need to pay for that circa 200 hours of labour + make money on it as well.

If GM made the Silverado 1500 in RHD from the factory it would be the end of $80K Thailand Specials - but they've got no interest in RHD markets and they don't care about a couple thousand sales in Australia when they pump out hundreds of thousands at home.

[prydey]

Manufacturers (all of them) will sell their products for what the market is willing to pay. You can't rely blame the manufacturers for the price when the demand is there.

It's surprising that mazda/isuzu or mitsi or Nissan don't try to buy a few sales off Toyota and Ford by dropping their prices. Surely they don't have to sell at those prices here to make a profit.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You could say the exact same thing about all the Thailand Specials

The American utes are way overpriced, but you need to pay for that circa 200 hours of labour + make money on it as well.

If GM made the Silverado 1500 in RHD from the factory it would be the end of $80K Thailand Specials - but they've got no interest in RHD markets and they don't care about a couple thousand sales in Australia when they pump out hundreds of thousands at home.

hey agreed Thai specials are a rip as well, especially Toy/Ford compared to their competitors but good luck to them people pay.
Its always IF and us being RHD, interesting we're all having to change with the times what the OE's do, wonder when the time comes OE's decide we are NOT gonna make anymore RHD for the few markets that are.

[Warrenk]

Originally Posted by FTE217

hey agreed Thai specials are a rip as well, especially Toy/Ford compared to their competitors but good luck to them people pay.
Its always IF and us being RHD, interesting we're all having to change with the times what the OE's do, wonder when the time comes OE's decide we are NOT gonna make anymore RHD for the few markets that are.

There always will be a market RHD drive vehicles. The country with the second biggest population in the world is RHD.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Warrenk

There always will be a market RHD drive vehicles. The country with the second biggest population in the world is RHD.

And it's also a market that manufacturers are bailing from. Only the cheapest sheet boxes sell there, there's next to no money to be made there unless you are Maruti Suzuki or Mahindra. They have to be so dirt cheap that the average indian can afford them. And the profit margin is then waffer thin.

The Ford Figo was the most stripped down car i've ever driven. Nothing but a fuel gauge and speedo in the cluster, no heater, radio, centre console and wind up windows. Vinyl floors. Like something from the 50's.


EV's will probably be the saviour of RHD cars, cause it will make it much easier and cheaper to build them, not having an engine and trans to get in the way of the steering. Brake by wire is gaining acceptance too, which will allow the master cylinder etc to stay mounted on the one side for both LHD and RHD. Or centrally mounted.