VFACTS - November 2024

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I don't see it at work but I see it in Melbourne CBD - bars, clubs, restaurants, cafes all dead.

Don't even need to make bookings, just walk in and hardly anyone is around

Not sure
Dan Murphys GC stores are selling up a storm.
Average transaction at least $150

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

AC theory for today and the previous 6 weeks, VFACTS on AFF is a little more interesting

Barely.

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Didnt take long for Prado to bounce back, I'm seeing them everywhere.

Get them while you can as the 2025 model looks like a box on wheels.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/...ado-4x4-review

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Get them while you can as the 2025 model looks like a box on wheels.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/...ado-4x4-review

Umm, you do realise Novembers 3600 deliveries are the box on wheels you speak of yeah?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I bought a Pajero Sport.

I know and congrats by the way..

No, what I was smiling at was how much bang for buck Pajero is
when the top of the line model is like $8,000 less than the entry Prado.
(no accounting for taste was reference to Prado buyers not you)

I nearly bought a Pajero myself but ended up with a run out zero km CX-8 with $8,000 off.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

CarExpert did one of there tests with the new Prado and its slower 0-100 and 80 - 120 than the old one which makes sense. I get into my Brothers 150 series VX after driving my Everest and it feels like its broken, the new ones probably worse.

Not sure what Toyota could of done about it.. They cant really use the V6 Diesel from 300 series, no doubt worried it would steal 300 sales and how far can they push the 2.8? Surely the tune from Hilux GR Sport (165kw/550nm) would of made more sense for it??

Either way, personally I think its a joke they just recycled the old motor and make no secret of that... but hey, they seem to be selling like hot cakes so it shows the sheep don't really care as long as it has that badge and people can do what they want with there own $$$$.

Power is unchanged but now goes through an 8sp auto which makes it a much better drive.
They could and may well give it the GR tune down the track, but this is Toyota, they wont get dragged into a hp war with Everest, its not 90/00's FPV v HSV anymore, its an offroader that does it pretty well by all accounts with 150kw/500nm.
I dont think many will bounce it on the limiter to know it takes a bit longer to get to 100.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Power is unchanged but now goes through an 8sp auto which makes it a much better drive.
They could and may well give it the GR tune down the track, but this is Toyota, they wont get dragged into a hp war with Everest, its not 90/00's FPV v HSV anymore, its an offroader that does it pretty well by all accounts with 150kw/500nm.
I dont think many will bounce it on the limiter to know it takes a bit longer to get to 100.

I see it a little bit differently and for anyone who’s experienced the 3.0 V6 Powerstroke,
it’s all about the smooth, creamy torque of the V6 that originally started out in Jags and Land Rovers.

So with Everest, the 2.0 diesel gets you 150 kw and 500 nm with a 10-speed auto that’s
a good match for the 2.8 in Fortuner and Prado while the V6 is the premium engine in
Upper series gives a nice premium feel without the LandCrusier 300 premium.

I know sizes here make it an imperfect comparison but maybe that’s what both
manufacturers are counting as points of difference - buyers like different things,

[Warrenk]

After reading some posts on a caravaning facebook site by a few owners, is that compared to the previous Prado, the new one feels a bit underpowered and feels heavy(maybe because it is 45kgs lighter than the LC300, but with a smaller motor). As far as towing goes, there is a consensus that a GVM upgrade will be needed if they want to take advantage of the new GCM

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Umm, you do realise Novembers 3600 deliveries are the box on wheels you speak of yeah?

Yep and doesn't change that fact.

[CyberWasp]

Toyota ticked all the boxes to get People lining up out the door.
Bigger,
Less 2nd Row Knee Room,
Higher Rear Floor,
Heavier,
Slower,
Fiddly Infotainment System,
Smaller Fuel Tanks,
Around 10k More Expensive.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Power is unchanged but now goes through an 8sp auto which makes it a much better drive.
They could and may well give it the GR tune down the track, but this is Toyota, they wont get dragged into a hp war with Everest, its not 90/00's FPV v HSV anymore, its an offroader that does it pretty well by all accounts with 150kw/500nm.
I dont think many will bounce it on the limiter to know it takes a bit longer to get to 100.

Takes longer to get to 100kmh than a 3sp auto EA Falcon.
Anything 10 seconds or more to 100 is dangerously slow IMO.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Takes longer to get to 100kmh than a 3sp auto EA Falcon.
Anything 10 seconds or more to 100 is dangerously slow IMO.

So once owners give real world feedback online of how bad they are we should see orders cancelled and numbers drop.
Lets see hey.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I see it a little bit differently and for anyone who’s experienced the 3.0 V6 Powerstroke,
it’s all about the smooth, creamy torque of the V6 that originally started out in Jags and Land Rovers.

So with Everest, the 2.0 diesel gets you 150 kw and 500 nm with a 10-speed auto that’s
a good match for the 2.8 in Fortuner and Prado while the V6 is the premium engine in
Upper series gives a nice premium feel without the LandCrusier 300 premium.

I know sizes here make it an imperfect comparison but maybe that’s what both
manufacturers are counting as points of difference - buyers like different things,

No one is knocking the Ford V6, if you cant afford or cant justify the 300 V6 its a great alternative.
The Prado isnt meant to be either, it is what it is and it appears to have a strong following, for now anyway.

[Vekgib]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So once owners give real world feedback online of how bad they are we should see orders cancelled and numbers drop.
Lets see hey.

This. So much this.
Seems to be some real noses out of joint here over the fact that there were so many Prados sold.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So once owners give real world feedback online of how bad they are we should see orders cancelled and numbers drop.
Lets see hey.

Na, never underestimate the retardedness of the average new car buyer who’s thought process is 100% emotion and heavily influenced on what everyone else is buying.
Proof, people have been lining up and paying through the nose for Thai specials with **** weak rough as guts four cylinder engines, leaf springs/drum brakes and interiors about as well appointed as a 30 year old Mitsubishi Mirage.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by smoo

Na, never underestimate the retardedness of the average new car buyer who’s thought process is 100% emotion and heavily influenced on what everyone else is buying.
Proof, people have been lining up and paying through the nose for Thai specials with **** weak rough as guts four cylinder engines, leaf springs/drum brakes and interiors about as well appointed as a 30 year old Mitsubishi Mirage.

Agreed, people paid $85k for a 2.0l Raptor.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Vekgib

This. So much this.
Seems to be some real noses out of joint here over the fact that there were so many Prados sold.

Was there ever a more predictable response.

Having Everest place behind an MG wouldnt help the situation either.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Vekgib

This. So much this.
Seems to be some real noses out of joint here over the fact that there were so many Prados sold.

The reality Is that Toyota is holding around 30,000 Prado orders so just as with
new Ranger and Everest, a lot of the coming monthly sales will simply be how
quickly Toyota can ship and deliver already sold vehicles.

Being slower accelerating than a 2.0 Everest is clearly not an impediment to Prado buyers
who clearly prioritise other things in the package. I’m happy because it looks like
Everest sales won’t be impacted by Prado’s return exactly because priorities are different.

People like different things.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I’m happy because it looks like
Everest sales won’t be impacted by Prado’s return exactly because priorities are different.

People like different things.

Yeah, Im not so sure about that jpd.
Everest peaked at 2900 units delivered a few months ago after steady growth, then it saw a decline.
As the reporting is of delivered units it could be that numbers are still in decline, but they've held off deliveries to give an artificial boost inline with Prado release, especially considering November and December are traditionally slow months.

You really need a minimum 6 months to get a proper read of the effect on competitors after the release of an anticipated model

[whynot]

As a future Everest owner, I actually welcome the Prado, Tasman, Shark, et al to the marketplace. The better the Prado is, the more it competes with the Everest. In turn, this pushes Ford along to provide better vehicles and helps keep prices in check. Like maybe an Everest PHEV?

Shark gets 10,000 expressions of interest??? You beauty, helps keep Ranger prices in check.

As for whether the new Prado is good or bad ... it is way too early to tell. There are a lot of "influencers" out there hungry and hunting for Prado clickbait for their social media channel. To be honest, most of them are drongos who could not care less if their "experience" is a true representation of the vehicle. For example, the couple who hooked up a brand new Prado to a 2500 kg van, without giving the vehicle a chance to run in. Then pulled the rig across the Nullabor, into a headwind, and bitched about the fuel consumption. (One can bet they don't give the Prado an intermediate oil change either.)

Opinions on the new Prado will be extreme ends of the spectrum: worst vehicle ever or best vehicle ever. No realistic assessment that falls in the middle.

The next comment is not trying to sound callous to those who work in the automotive industry: but I think it is a longer-term good thing that some of the excess steam is now coming out of the new car market.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by whynot

As a future Everest owner, I actually welcome the Prado, Tasman, Shark, et al to the marketplace. The better the Prado is, the more it competes with the Everest. In turn, this pushes Ford along to provide better vehicles and helps keep prices in check. Like maybe an Everest PHEV?

Shark gets 10,000 expressions of interest??? You beauty, helps keep Ranger prices in check.

As for whether the new Prado is good or bad ... it is way too early to tell. There are a lot of "influencers" out there hungry and hunting for Prado clickbait for their social media channel. To be honest, most of them are drongos who could not care less if their "experience" is a true representation of the vehicle. For example, the couple who hooked up a brand new Prado to a 2500 kg van, without giving the vehicle a chance to run in. Then pulled the rig across the Nullabor, into a headwind, and bitched about the fuel consumption. (One can bet they don't give the Prado an intermediate oil change either.)

Opinions on the new Prado will be extreme ends of the spectrum: worst vehicle ever or best vehicle ever. No realistic assessment that falls in the middle.

The next comment is not trying to sound callous to those who work in the automotive industry: but I think it is a longer-term good thing that some of the excess steam is now coming out of the new car market.

Could not agree more!

People need to stop shit canning the opposition and excusing Fords short comings because all it does is creates a place for complacency.
Praise the opposition and welcome choice to force improvement and competition in pricing.

Far too many apologists that are drtrimental in reality.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by smoo

Na, never underestimate the retardedness of the average new car buyer who’s thought process is 100% emotion and heavily influenced on what everyone else is buying.
Proof, people have been lining up and paying through the nose for Thai specials with **** weak rough as guts four cylinder engines, leaf springs/drum brakes and interiors about as well appointed as a 30 year old Mitsubishi Mirage.

Perhaps they have a secret fetish of guilt and want to be part of the developing world? Can't understand live axles, separate chassis, chuggy noisy engines, and inferior crash safety being selected as desirable but there you go.

[jpd80]

Random question, would anyone have Fortuner sales numbers?
Just curious…..

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Random question, would anyone have Fortuner sales numbers?
Just curious…..

Oh..is it still on sale

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Was there ever a more predictable response.

Having Everest place behind an MG wouldnt help the situation either.

Biggest seller of coffee in Australia is McDonalds..is it the best....

[kevino]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Random question, would anyone have Fortuner sales numbers?
Just curious…..

244
Source
Car expert.com.au

[Vekgib]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Biggest seller of coffee in Australia is McDonalds..is it the best....

Dunno. Coffee is a ****. However, sales are where it's at.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Vekgib

Dunno. Coffee is a ****. However, sales are where it's at.

I would have thought profit trumps revenue but that's semantics.....although I have no doubt Toyota are making a killing on these...the questions is do you get a much better vehicle for the money and does the same money buy better?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I would have thought profit trumps revenue but that's semantics.....although I have no doubt Toyota are making a killing on these...the questions is do you get a much better vehicle for the money and does the same money buy better?

Honestly both Ford and Toyota are jacking up prices on vehicles to the max that buyers will stand
and then probably some….the latest Prado is basically Landcruiser with shorter nose and tail
and restricted to four cylinder….its clever when you think about it, critics can’t seem to get past
it being 200 kg heavier but they still look at it like it’s the same vehicle as before, it’s bigger.

On the other side, Ford tried and tried to convince Aussies that they were far to cube oriented
and that 2.0 litres was all that was needed. Finally relenting and offering a 3.0 V6 diesel as
an option, it looked like Ford was the only one in disbelief at the huge numbers wanting the V6
that basically relegated the 2.0 litre to the bargain base option that few would buy…

So yeah, Everest vs Prado Landcruiser:
Ford went similar size vehicle bigger engine, Toyota went bigger vehicle with same engine.
As I said previously in the thread, people like differnt things…

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Vekgib

Dunno. Coffee is a ****. However, sales are where it's at.

Austin, Caw this coffee smells like Sh**
Basil it is Sh** Austin
Austin oh good, then it’s not just me….takes a sip.
Austin. It’s a bit nutty